eBay negative feedback

[Mdmtx]

I bought a card on eBay that the seller graded as vg/ex. However, the card was written on on the back. This was not disclosed in the auction nor was there a picture. Usually I would just take the loss since I didn't ask, but since this seller declared a grade of vg/ex I feel I am owed a partial refund or to return the card. My questions are:
How long should I wait for a response before leaving negative feedback?
What is the proper step to make me whole in accordance with eBay policy?

Mark

[ullmandds]

who's the seller? or you can return it!

[ullmandds]

i recently had a buyer request a refund because condition of cards received wasnt what he expected...at which point I negotiated a partial refund to avoid the hassle of returning and reselling. Open a dispute..do not leave neg feedback first...if seller does not respond ebay will intervene.

[pokerplyr80]

I would send an email before opening a claim. See if the seller is willing to work with you. If he doesn't respond today I would open the claim tomorrow.

You are entitled to a full refund as the card was not as described. Depending on the cost ebay might tell you to keep the card and refund your money if you file the claim. This happened to me once. I did not feel bad because the seller was a jerk and basically told me to beat it when I asked for a partial refund.

[vthobby]

You really should not be thinking about leaving a negative feedback. As others have said, just email the guy or open a case. Bay will 99% of the time find in your favor and I have found that you will most likely get all or some of your money back and possibly get to keep the card.

It's possible he did not know about the writing. A negative is not even close to the right answer here.

Peace, Mike

[glchen]

BTW, I believe in the new ebay seller criteria, negative feedback and low DSR's don't hurt sellers anymore in terms of receiving the Top Rated Seller discount. Instead, they are using shipping time criteria and the number of cases opened against a seller.

Therefore, I would send the seller an ebay message stating that you are unhappy with your purchase because the card had writing that was not disclosed in the listing. If he does not make it right with you within a 2-3 days after your message, then open an ebay case for Item Not As Described. You will win the case obviously, and you still can still neg him and hit his DSR's if you want.

[Mdmtx]

I have sent 2 messages in the past 36 hours since I received the card. No response yet. These guys are not part time ebayers. They have over 22k feedback. I don't deal with poor customer service well.

[Sean1125]

Who is it?

[Rich Klein]

Also please post a link to the EBay Auction in question

[Mdmtx]

It is not a prewar card, it is a 66 topps high number sp so I did not link the auction here. They have responded in the past 20 minutes offering a refund.

[Iwantmorecards77]

Not trying to hijack the thread - but I have a similar issue, though I am the seller.

I recently sold a $200+ modern hockey card. I advertised the card as NM-MT. Two weeks after the auction, the buyer paid and I shipped it out. (I'm patient, I guess.) The card was placed in a penny sleeve, top loader (with small piece of tape w/removable tab on top) - then placed in a team set bag. Card was sandwiched between 2 thick pieces of cardboard and taped. Then - it was placed between 4 more layers of thick cardboard (two on each side) then taped up in a weather resistant bubble mailer.

The item was marked as received/delivered on the 20th. 2-3 days later, the buyer points out a surface imperfection (indentation.) I told him I didn't catch it when I inspected it, nor could I see it in the high res scan I provided in the auction. Immediately, I offered a full refund upon return of the card. I don't want any unhappy customers.

He declined - and said he just wanted to let me know. He said the card was nice and wanted to keep it. ...I though it was over.

Then, last night - his tone had changed. He questioned my storage process (card has been in a top loader, top-up, in a 3500 count box and in a floor safe for several years.) Nothing was laying on the card's surface. His second message (he sent 2 before I could even respond) - he said he will return it.

I addressed his storage concerns, and told him the full refund was fine. Send the card back - and he'll get his money back.

..then he changed his mind again. He wants the card - but wants a partial refund. With 30 or so messages from him in all - he's obviously one that cares very much about his cards and I could tell he's upset with the purchase. I feel it's best he just returns it and I give him a full refund - as I had offered 2 times - and as he implied when he said he was going to return it.

I suppose my question is - am I obligated to meet his request for a partial refund? I feel really uncomfortable about this whole thing and would really prefer the card returned, and I give him a 100% refund. It seems as if he's refusing to send back the card - yet wants a partial refund.

With 780 (100% positive) feedback - I've never been in this situation. He's accusing me of knowing about this imperfection - and also accusing me of accusing him of creating a story. (lol) Funny thing is - he has over 300 (100% positive) feedback - so it seems we have two legit eBay customers here!

In all reality - I never noticed this imperfection and never had any issue with offering him a full refund.

Any suggestions? It would be greatly appreciated.

[mrmopar]

30+ messages? He sounds like trouble, or unstable at least, with too much time on his hands. I'd expect that he can't be fully satisfied, even if you offered a partial refund. I am not a seller so I can only give you my feelings here, but I would either offer a full refund and be clear and done with it or offer that he keep it as it is. i don't believe partial refunds are expected or required, as that is subjective between buyer and seller.

Good Luck. From a long time buyer standpoint, a seller with 1 or even a few negatives among 100s or 1000s of positives isn't even that big of a factor for me. It would depend on the specifics noted, but I wouldn't sweat it. Eventually someone will drop a negative on even the best of sellers. That is a reality of the system.

Not trying to hijack the thread - but I have a similar issue, though I am the seller.

I recently sold a $200+ modern hockey card. I advertised the card as NM-MT. Two weeks after the auction, the buyer paid and I shipped it out. (I'm patient, I guess.) The card was placed in a penny sleeve, top loader (with small piece of tape w/removable tab on top) - then placed in a team set bag. Card was sandwiched between 2 thick pieces of cardboard and taped. Then - it was placed between 4 more layers of thick cardboard (two on each side) then taped up in a weather resistant bubble mailer.

The item was marked as received/delivered on the 20th. 2-3 days later, the buyer points out a surface imperfection (indentation.) I told him I didn't catch it when I inspected it, nor could I see it in the high res scan I provided in the auction. Immediately, I offered a full refund upon return of the card. I don't want any unhappy customers.

He declined - and said he just wanted to let me know. He said the card was nice and wanted to keep it. ...I though it was over.

Then, last night - his tone had changed. He questioned my storage process (card has been in a top loader, top-up, in a 3500 count box and in a floor safe for several years.) Nothing was laying on the card's surface. His second message (he sent 2 before I could even respond) - he said he will return it.

I addressed his storage concerns, and told him the full refund was fine. Send the card back - and he'll get his money back.

..then he changed his mind again. He wants the card - but wants a partial refund. With 30 or so messages from him in all - he's obviously one that cares very much about his cards and I could tell he's upset with the purchase. I feel it's best he just returns it and I give him a full refund - as I had offered 2 times - and as he implied when he said he was going to return it.

I suppose my question is - am I obligated to meet his request for a partial refund? I feel really uncomfortable about this whole thing and would really prefer the card returned, and I give him a 100% refund. It seems as if he's refusing to send back the card - yet wants a partial refund.

With 780 (100% positive) feedback - I've never been in this situation. He's accusing me of knowing about this imperfection - and also accusing me of accusing him of creating a story. (lol) Funny thing is - he has over 300 (100% positive) feedback - so it seems we have two legit eBay customers here!

In all reality - I never noticed this imperfection and never had any issue with offering him a full refund.

Any suggestions? It would be greatly appreciated.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Not trying to hijack the thread - but I have a similar issue, though I am the seller.

I'd ask him what he wants. You've apologized and offered a full refund for his troubles, so you don't understand the need to bring up shipping issues and honesty as a seller. Tell him if he's unhappy with the product you'll be happy to offer a full refund and then leave it at that. Also, make sure you apologize again for the confusion. I've had to get on the phone with ebay, regarding issues, and they're pretty helpful; as long as you've been honest, kind, and you have a history of being an honest seller. Also, I wouldn't worry too much if he gives you a -neg. Like someone else here said, ebay doesn't care about that anymore and there aren't many sellers that care about one negative. Oh, and PPS, you can always leave a comment after their negative feedback explaining your side.

[Iwantmorecards77]

Thanks for the help, guys. I thought I did the right thing by offering a full refund. We shall see.

[glchen]

The issue may be if the buyer needs to pay return shipping to send the cards back to you. That may be the issue if the return shipping is not refunded also. You may need to offer to pay the return shipping also or just give the buyer a partial refund like 10-20%. If I think that the issue is my fault (item not as described or poor packaging), then I would do what I said. If I think the issue is due to buyer remorse, then I would probably make the buyer pay for return shipping and not offer the partial refund option.

[thecatspajamas]

I would never suggest a partial refund in this situation. If he's already fired off 30+ messages in spite of you offering a full refund, there's no way giving him a partial refund of any amount will "just put an end to this" or make him a "satisfied customer" (unless he's making the whole thing up to scam a partial refund). Just be simple and polite, but direct, in your responses to him, and ask him to return the card if he is not satisfied with it. Don't feel obligated to respond to every crackpot accusation he levels against you, because again, that is unlikely to make him happy and will probably just add fuel to the fire.

As far as eBay is concerned, the only thing you HAVE to do is give him his money back upon return of the card, and possibly pay his return shipping if he requests.

[pokerplyr80]

I have sent 2 messages in the past 36 hours since I received the card. No response yet. These guys are not part time ebayers. They have over 22k feedback. I don't deal with poor customer service well.

Not disclosing the writing on the back and not responding to two emails in 36 hours would be more than enough for me to open a claim and leave bad feedback. Unacceptable by any standard in my opinion.

[TheNightmanCometh]

Thanks for the help, guys. I thought I did the right thing by offering a full refund. We shall see.

Oh, man. I forgot the most important part. Once everything has been taken care of you need to block him as a potential buyer. Life's too short.

[Beastmode]

I think you did everything right. Looks like his trolling for a credit. I like how you handled it.

[Iwantmorecards77]

Well - for the third time, I offered the full refund. Was extremely polite about it and even explained that I would pay return shipping. He claims he's getting the card signed on the 4th and doesn't have time to send it back and wait for a refund. ..waiting 2 weeks to pay for it certainly didn't help him. We're going around and around on this one. Ugh! He states that if I had noted the surface ding in the auction - it would've sold for less. I can't note it if I didn't see it. I apologized for missing it and followed eBay policy and offered the full return.

Seems we're at a stand-still. He's refusing to send it back - and I'm refusing to offer a partial refund.

[kmac32]

Well - for the third time, I offered the full refund. Was extremely polite about it and even explained that I would pay return shipping. He claims he's getting the card signed on the 4th and doesn't have time to send it back and wait for a refund. ..waiting 2 weeks to pay for it certainly didn't help him. We're going around and around on this one. Ugh! He states that if I had noted the surface ding in the auction - it would've sold for less. I can't note it if I didn't see it. I apologized for missing it and followed eBay policy and offered the full return.

Seems we're at a stand-still. He's refusing to send it back - and I'm refusing to offer a partial refund.

As long as you are corresponding through ebay, stick to your guns on a full refund. He is just trying to see what he can get out of you. You might even ask for a scan and have him point out the defect putting him on the spot. Defect may not even exist in my opinion.

Kmac

[thecatspajamas]

Well - for the third time, I offered the full refund. Was extremely polite about it and even explained that I would pay return shipping. He claims he's getting the card signed on the 4th and doesn't have time to send it back and wait for a refund. ..waiting 2 weeks to pay for it certainly didn't help him. We're going around and around on this one. Ugh! He states that if I had noted the surface ding in the auction - it would've sold for less. I can't note it if I didn't see it. I apologized for missing it and followed eBay policy and offered the full return.

Seems we're at a stand-still. He's refusing to send it back - and I'm refusing to offer a partial refund.

To come back with an excuse of "I'm going to get it signed and don't have time" at this point sounds like a last-ditch effort to squeeze you rather than returning it for the full refund you offered. If it's a legit reason, why wasn't it mentioned in the first 30 messages he sent? Regardless, what he chooses to do with it after his purchase is not your concern. As said previously, keep your responses simple, and tell him to send it back for a full refund or keep it. You can't quantify a "what if" scenario on the auction, and I'll say again, no partial refund is going to satisfy this guy (unless he's running a scam, and the partial is what he's gunning for).

[Iwantmorecards77]

Looks like we're both sticking to our guns. lol Crazy...

He's mentioned before that he's getting it signed - and I know there's a lot of people out there that get rookie cards signed.

He provided (somewhat blurry) pics of the surface indentation too. Though a full pic would help (to see the card's serial #.)

It's not that I don't believe him - it's certainly possible that I missed it (and my scan doesn't even show it.) He's claiming I omitted the flaw on purpose. He's been getting rude about this too. ...the fact that he has refused a full refund 3 times is a bit fishy though.

I'm going to call eBay on Monday (which I heard may take a while.) Not sure where this is headed, but when a buyer refuses a refund - not sure what else to do.

Another concern is - if he does get the card signed - and I do not offer a partial refund, he may open a case with eBay. He's not going to send it back - because it's signed - and technically, if he did - it wouldn't be in the same shape because it would have writing on it! I don't want eBay putting a hold on my funds - and also never getting the card back.

He sent me two more messages, explaining how cards with known flaws sell for less. (Really - who knew!?) I may just ignore him until I contact eBay. It's borderline harassment at this point. From his feedback - appears to be a stand-up guy, but this is just weird.

Fun. Not! ...I should just stick to my low-ish grade vintage, where dings, dents, rounded corners, creases, stains, frays, off-center, print marks are all there!

[TheNightmanCometh]

Your not at a standstill. He just wants some of his money back. Tell him, if he gets the card signed then it's his. Also, make sure to point it out to ebay customer service that you offered a full refund 3 times and he turned you down. Tell them you've done everything a responsible seller can do and at this point you think negative feedback is uncalled for. Then ask for them to remove it. If they don't, honestly, don't worry about it. If you've got hundreds of sells and one negative, buyers aren't gonna care.

[slidekellyslide]

Some buyers just can not be satisfied. You can bend over backwards and offer this guy the moon, but ebay isn't going to remove his negative if he decides to leave one. I say stop responding to this guy, let him open a case against you if he wants to continue the BS. Definitely not worth the stress.

And BLOCK him!!

[thecatspajamas]

Chances are real good you're getting a neg no matter what you do, whether partial refund, full refund, whatever. Don't let the possibility of getting a neg make you do something you wouldn't otherwise.

As for contacting eBay, I wouldn't until he actually files a claim. Contacting them pre-emptively will get you nowhere. They certainly won't block him from filing for a refund. If he files a claim, they will require him to return the card for a refund. The return may be on your dime, but at least you'll have the card back. If he doesn't comply, he won't get a refund. Ebay won't mandate a partial refund and allow him to keep the card. Worst case scenario, the funds are tied up until the case times out, at which point you ask eBay to release the funds and since he won't have proof of delivery from the return, they will.

[rhettyeakley]

My ebay policy is simple, either you are happy with the item or not, if you aren't... send it back for a full refund. Life is too short for the whole "partial refund" headache. There is an entire subset of ebayers that are serial-partial-refund-seekers and they play that game with every seller they encounter and often get items for free or very cheaply. I guess that makes it worth their time but who needs that aggravation?

If it gets sent back due to my mistake (missed flaw, etc.) I'll note that in the new listing and try to sell it to someone else.

[iowadoc77]

Oh the joys of EBay and why so many are choosing not to do business there. Good luck with this situation. Hard to see these coming.

[Mdmtx]

To get back to my original post, I just left negative feedback. I requested the seller, tripleplayvintagestore, to refund my money plus adequate return postage. He told me that I needed to send the card first. I told him I don't trust him, nor do I want to give an interest free loan. So I just left a negative. First time I've done that and I guess I will be keeping a card with writing on the back. Oh well, you live and learn. I learned to avoid tripleplayvintage

Mark Medlin

[Sean1125]

To get back to my original post, I just left negative feedback. I requested the seller, tripleplayvintage, to refund my money plus adequate return postage. He told me that I needed to send the card first. I told him I don't trust him, nor do I want to give an interest free loan. So I just left a negative. First time I've done that and I guess I will be keeping a card with writing on the back. Oh well, you live and learn. I learned to avoid tripleplayvintage

Mark Medlin

No seller is in the habit of giving refunds before a buyer ships items.

[Buythatcard]

To get back to my original post, I just left negative feedback. I requested the seller, tripleplayvintage, to refund my money plus adequate return postage. He told me that I needed to send the card first. I told him I don't trust him, nor do I want to give an interest free loan. So I just left a negative. First time I've done that and I guess I will be keeping a card with writing on the back. Oh well, you live and learn. I learned to avoid tripleplayvintage

Mark Medlin


Definitely not the way to do it! You should return the card first and then the Seller will refund your money. If he doesn't then eBay will step in. I see no reason why you should have left them a negative. Seller agreed to refund your money upon receipt of the card. No business will give you a refund until you return the item.

[Mdmtx]

I am not interested in loaning this guy money to perpetuate his practice. I chose to keep the card and be out the money. He chose to be deceptive in his ad. I guess that makes me petty. I'm ok with that. But it also marks a deceptive person as deceptive. I'm ok with that too

[Mdmtx]

I've been thinking about this more and am actually a little ticked off. Let's say a company made a habit of selling things on eBay that presented better in photos than they are. Let's say a company placed 500 of these items on eBay selling for an average of 100 bucks each. Had them all end at about the same time. Then collected 50,000.00 in funds from the deceptive sales. Now it takes 3 or 4 days to receive the merchandise. Then 2 or 3 days of emails about the deceptive sale. Then 3 or 4 more days to ship back then a day or 2 to process a refund. Looks to me like a great way to have a 50 k interest free loan for 10 to 15 days. Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final. You guys may not like my negative feedback, but I'm not going to enable that type business model/practice. To think the seller is the only one trustworthy to hold the merchandise and the funds at the same time is ludicrous. In the return process the roles are reversed and the buyer is now the seller. If the original seller isn't willing to put himself in the buyers shoes, maybe he should not be a seller.

[Sean1125]

What is your eBay username so I can make sure to block you, please?

[Mdmtx]

Mkmtx block away

[Mdmtx]

Glad to see you support shady dealing Sean

[Sean1125]

Glad to see you support shady dealing Sean

It is not standard practice for any seller to give a refund before an return item is in hand. I do not support shading dealings by anyone.

[1952boyntoncollector]

Well - for the third time, I offered the full refund. Was extremely polite about it and even explained that I would pay return shipping. He claims he's getting the card signed on the 4th and doesn't have time to send it back and wait for a refund. ..waiting 2 weeks to pay for it certainly didn't help him. We're going around and around on this one. Ugh! He states that if I had noted the surface ding in the auction - it would've sold for less. I can't note it if I didn't see it. I apologized for missing it and followed eBay policy and offered the full return.

Seems we're at a stand-still. He's refusing to send it back - and I'm refusing to offer a partial refund.


Yeah this guy is really fishy...waiting 2 weeks to pay would of been the red flag not to ever deal wit him.....if i see i neg feeback and seller puts on the feedeback 'offered full refund but he wants to keep card' i wouldnt worry about the 1 bad feedback, especially when later on it would be more than 90 days old and not show up as recent feedback ...

waiting 2 weeks to pay it just ridiculous for him to start complaining about the bid history of how much someone would of offered had they known about the indentation....what about him telling you beforehand it will take 2 weeks for him to pay if he wins the auction at least...he probably would get blocked if he said that before winning the auction..

[Mdmtx]

It is not standard dealing to misrepresent your goods either. If a seller is concerned about following the rules and precedents that have been set, they should follow them as well. This was a simple transaction. Made complicated by the sellers failure to properly represent his item. Then compounded by an unwillingness to place any trust in the buyer. The seller lost all trust when the deceptive ad was placed. If you feel the pendulum should always swing to the sellers side, then you are mistaken.

As an added bit of info, I have perfect feedback as both a buyer and a seller. So please block me Sean. I would hate to be unblocked because I support fair dealing.

Mark Medlin

[Mdmtx]

And to be clear for the casual reader, there are 2 topics being discussed in this post.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I've been thinking about this more and am actually a little ticked off. Let's say a company made a habit of selling things on eBay that presented better in photos than they are. Let's say a company placed 500 of these items on eBay selling for an average of 100 bucks each. Had them all end at about the same time. Then collected 50,000.00 in funds from the deceptive sales. Now it takes 3 or 4 days to receive the merchandise. Then 2 or 3 days of emails about the deceptive sale. Then 3 or 4 more days to ship back then a day or 2 to process a refund. Looks to me like a great way to have a 50 k interest free loan for 10 to 15 days. Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final. You guys may not like my negative feedback, but I'm not going to enable that type business model/practice. To think the seller is the only one trustworthy to hold the merchandise and the funds at the same time is ludicrous. In the return process the roles are reversed and the buyer is now the seller. If the original seller isn't willing to put himself in the buyers shoes, maybe he should not be a seller.

I ended up keeptng a card from ebay id battlefield where there are multiple theads about because did not want to hassle on a 20 dollar card etc.. (actually 5 dollar card if scan/description accurate) but wha you said seems like his business model

[thecatspajamas]

Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final.

You mean like you just decided to do? By somehow rationalizing that you are in an either/or scenario of either leaving negative feedback or getting your money back, you are being an enabler in your imagined scenario.

If you are not satisfied that the item you received is as advertised, go through official channels to file for a refund. EBay will have you return the card and will ensure you get your money back when the tracking on the return shipment shows the package was delivered back to the seller. After that, you can still leave whatever feedback you feel is appropriate.

Getting upset because the buyer asked you to return the card for a refund is unproductive, and I fail to see how letting the buyer KEEP the money for what you consider a fraudulent transaction is somehow better than what you call LOANING him the money until eBay refunds it to you.

Returning what you bought for a refund is standard operating procedure in any industry that deals with hard goods, and in many cases, is the only meaningful way to reinforce your displeasure with the goods or transaction. No matter how displeased you are though, you still have to go through the proper channels to carry out the return/refund.

[Mdmtx]

I own a parkhurst nagurski from battlefield that I kept about a year ago. Was exactly the type of situation I was referring to. Feedback doesn't tell the whole story. It's only the tip.

[thecatspajamas]

It is not standard dealing to misrepresent your goods either. If a seller is concerned about following the rules and precedents that have been set, they should follow them as well. This was a simple transaction. Made complicated by the sellers failure to properly represent his item. Then compounded by an unwillingness to place any trust in the buyer. The seller lost all trust when the deceptive ad was placed. If you feel the pendulum should always swing to the sellers side, then you are mistaken.

As an added bit of info, I have perfect feedback as both a buyer and a seller. So please block me Sean. I would hate to be unblocked because I support fair dealing.

Mark Medlin

Nobody is supporting misrepresentation of the item. We are just saying that you need to follow proper channels to address the issue. E-mailing the seller to demand a refund before sending the item back is not proper channels. If there is one thing eBay is good at, it's ensuring that you get your money back when you return an item, regardless of the level of trust between the buyer and the seller. But you have to follow proper channels.

[Mdmtx]

I left negative feedback and I will not do any business with that person again. Enabled is sweeping under the rug. I chose to take the 40 dollar hit and broadcast the sales tactics. If I go the refund route I would be hushed. So I feel I did not enable this seller, instead I feel I took a stand at my expense.

[thecatspajamas]

I left negative feedback and I will not do any business with that person again. Enabled is sweeping under the rug. I chose to take the 40 dollar hit and broadcast the sales tactics. If I go the refund route I would be hushed. So I feel I did not enable this seller, instead I feel I took a stand at my expense.

Again, it's not getting a refund OR leaving feedback. You can get a refund AND still leave feedback. There is no need for you to "take the 40 dollar hit" in order to "broadcast the sales tactics."

By refusing to return the card for a refund, you actually make it more likely that eBay, the seller, and future buyers will disregard your message of displeasure. (See the other conversation running under this header for what I mean by not taking a complaint seriously if the buyer is unwilling to return the item for a refund).

[Mdmtx]

Ok. Then I will contact eBay. Wasn't aware that i was still entitled to a refund.

[Jantz]

You said the seller is tripleplayvintage in your post #29 and that you have left this seller negative feedback.

I just looked up his feedback and no negative feedback is showing for the last 6 months.

Are you sure that's the seller's Ebay name?

[Mdmtx]

Tripleplayvintagestore sorry for the miscommunication

[pokerplyr80]

I've been thinking about this more and am actually a little ticked off. Let's say a company made a habit of selling things on eBay that presented better in photos than they are. Let's say a company placed 500 of these items on eBay selling for an average of 100 bucks each. Had them all end at about the same time. Then collected 50,000.00 in funds from the deceptive sales. Now it takes 3 or 4 days to receive the merchandise. Then 2 or 3 days of emails about the deceptive sale. Then 3 or 4 more days to ship back then a day or 2 to process a refund. Looks to me like a great way to have a 50 k interest free loan for 10 to 15 days. Not to mention the possibility that some just keep the merchandise and the sale becomes final. You guys may not like my negative feedback, but I'm not going to enable that type business model/practice. To think the seller is the only one trustworthy to hold the merchandise and the funds at the same time is ludicrous. In the return process the roles are reversed and the buyer is now the seller. If the original seller isn't willing to put himself in the buyers shoes, maybe he should not be a seller.

I disagree. The time and shipping costs would not make this profitable. I think it's pretty ridiculous that you expect a refund without returning the card. I have agreed with everything you have said up until this point. But you are making a bad situation worse.

I agree with Sean as a seller I would block you.

[Mdmtx]

Block away.

[thecatspajamas]

Tripleplayvintagestore sorry for the miscommunication

Unless the two sellers are one and the same, I hope that you will go back and revise your previous posts calling out the wrong eBay seller.

[Mdmtx]

And to be clear I would return the card. I just expect the refund prior to my sending. I have read posts about people failing to refund, delaying refunds etc.. I'm not interested in relinquishing what little leverage I do have until he processes the refund. I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

And in response to pokerplayer, if you see no value in interest free loans please forward me as much cash as you can spare. The scenario I pointed out could be construed as a small ponzu scheme. If you had enough items to sell you could in fact role that into a large sum of money by way of interest free loan and use that money for a quick flip and then repay your accounts. Not saying this was done, but could be under the current system.

[Mdmtx]

Great point lance. Done.

[kmac32]

Looked at the listing and saw only a scan of the front of the card. I know that when I buy cards, I also want to see a scan of the back also. Is there a reason that you did not request one. If a seller does not send or post a back scan when requested, I do not bid.

[Mdmtx]

He graded it as vg/ex. I didn't feel I needed to see the back. In hind sight it would have simplified things if I would have asked. But with his statement of condition I felt I had enough information to understand the card condition. Vg/ex is an overstatement if written on.

[thecatspajamas]

I just expect the refund prior to my sending.

That will never happen. Ebay does not require it, and no seller in their right mind would do so, regardless of whether they are honest or dishonest. It leaves the seller wide open to retribution by an already-disgruntled buyer.

I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

As said several times, eBay requires you to return the card for a refund. If you return the card, it is not up to the seller whether to refund your or not. When you file for the return, eBay/Paypal will freeze the funds in the seller's account, and release them back to you upon proof of delivery of the item back to the seller (so be sure you get tracking on the return shipment).

[Mdmtx]

Thanks for the info lance. Will do.

[pokerplyr80]

And to be clear I would return the card. I just expect the refund prior to my sending. I have read posts about people failing to refund, delaying refunds etc.. I'm not interested in relinquishing what little leverage I do have until he processes the refund. I will contact eBay and perform the return however they outline it.

And in response to pokerplayer, if you see no value in interest free loans please forward me as much cash as you can spare. The scenario I pointed out could be construed as a small ponzu scheme. If you had enough items to sell you could in fact role that into a large sum of money by way of interest free loan and use that money for a quick flip and then repay your accounts. Not saying this was done, but could be under the current system.

There is value in an interest free loan. There is no value in taking the time and expense to ship a 40 dollar card, or even a 400 dollar card for a short term loan. The few bucks that the shipping costs instantly make this idea unprofitable. Even if you don't value the time and shipping and packing the card only cost 2 dollars you would need a 5% return in less than a month. Your argument does not make sense to me. Nor does expecting a refund before returning a card.

[kmac32]

He graded it as vg/ex. I didn't feel I needed to see the back. In hind sight it would have simplified things if I would have asked. But with his statement of condition I felt I had enough information to understand the card condition. Vg/ex is an overstatement if written on.

I guess I do not take anyone at their word when it comes to ebay. I would rather make my own judgement before bidding. VG/ex in one person's opinion may be something completely different in my opinion. Scans of both sides of the card leave no room for deception and everyone is protected.

[Mdmtx]

We will have to agree to disagree here with regard to the loan value. But, I will admit my insistence of refund first is odd. The issue arises from the delay in response, the appearance that the ad was deceptive (especially after closer scrutiny of the sellers feedback) and previous posts here on net54 about other sellers delaying refunds. If I ship the card and usps fails to deliver, then what? I didn't ask to be in this predicament. I purchased a card that was graded vg/ex by the seller. He failed to deliver that. Now due to his failure I am required to be out my money at least 2 weeks. Make a trip to the post office and have additional unreimbursed expenses, assume the risk of delivery by the mail service - this all stems from the deceptive ad the seller placed. If that sounds fair to you then I am obviously confused, because it sounds like I have been rewarded with extra effort, expense and risk because the seller was deceptive. Now please block me if I seem harsh in my critique because if you defend that type of deal I have no desire to buy anything from you. eBay ID Mkmtx

Mark Medlin

[mechanicalman]

I do not wish to comment on the OP's situation, as I think a lot has been said already. However, the conversation prompts a question I'd like to pose to those interested in this subject.

If there was a similar situation where you receive a card that's not as described (call it a card with a crease that was described as EX) and you go through the traditional channels to send it back and you receive a full refund, do you then give negative feedback? Or do you give positive feedback because the seller returned your money? Neutral? No feedback at all?

Personally, I haven't had this happen (except receiving an EMPTY package once), but I would certainly not provide positive feedback for anyone who wastes my time and money (in return shipping). At the risk of being banned by half the sellers on this board, I think I'd lean toward neutral or negative if the seller was not fast and courteous. Wondering how others might rate this.

[pokerplyr80]

It's unfortunate that you have to spend the time and money to return the card but that's just the way it is. I've had to do it before. It's the risk we run buying raw cards online. I certainly wouldn't buy from the seller again and would request a back scan before making a purchase decision in the future.

The alternative of forcing a seller to refund with no guarantee they would get their card back is worse, in my opinion, than forcing a buyer to take the time to return the card. Think of the problems that would arise if this was the case.

[thecatspajamas]

If there was a similar situation where you receive a card that's not as described (call it a card with a crease that was described as EX) and you go through the traditional channels to send it back and you receive a full refund, do you then give negative feedback? Or do you give positive feedback because the seller returned your money? Neutral? No feedback at all?

There's not a one-size-fits-all response for this situation. It would depend on the circumstances of the omission of the flaw, and how the seller reacted when it was brought to their attention.

Feedback is meant to give an overall evaluation of the transaction experience, not to be a punitive sharpened stick with which to goad the other party to your desired outcome. It is entirely possible to receive an item not-as-described and, depending on how the seller handled the issue, leave a justified positive feedback. It is also possible to have a seller be such an incredible a-hole about the issue that nothing other than a neg will do, even if all your money is refunded along with the return shipping cost.

To me, there are actual mistakes and oversights that, while regrettable, do not require retribution. If the seller does their part to remain civil and unwind the transaction in such a situation, I'm more likely to leave a pos or not leave feedback at all, and save the negs and neutrals for those sellers who go out of their way to make a bad situation worse.

[Mdmtx]

I agree with that statement pokerplayer. I feel that a improper and/or deceptive sales ad should be viewed differently than a normal return. I would view a normal return as usually an error by the purchaser or 3rd party(shipping company). When the fault is clearly with the seller, I feel the burden should also lie with the seller. I am not contending that my stance is in compliance with the policy of the store (eBay) or seller, but rather just venting a little. One of the issues that was left out is the time to find, watch and bid on the item and the fact that others past by when I selected to pursue this one. I know it's a small value item. I know I sound petty. But I'm tired of the tail wagging the dog. It's not the first time I've encountered this type of deal. I have been highly disappointed numerous times upon receipt of items. I usually just leave positive feedback and move on assuming it was an honest mistake. I just think it's time to quit settling for this type behavior. Sorry for the 2 day rant. Thanks for listening.

[chaddurbin]

this thread is funny, and completely unnecessary. you must've saw he had 88 negs the last year before deciding to bid with him. it shouldn't surprise you at all that the card was not as advertised. just return it and move on.

buyers should take some responsibility in the transaction process also, you can't feign ignorance here. and then to make a mountain out of a mole hill, i don't blame people here for blocking you at all.

[Mdmtx]

Chad, you are right. I should have ignored the 24,900 positive comments and his grade of vg/ex. Get real. We aren't discussing a mild hair line hard to see crease. I would understand that. We are discussing writing on the back. And rather large writing at that. So as a buyer I am supposed to overlook his grading and his near 25,000 feedback. Wake up.

Mark Medlin

[rhettyeakley]

This seems like quite an ordeal over a $40 card.

It is far riskier for a seller to refund before item being returned (and just hope that the item someday gets back to them) than the buyer to return the item and then work through ebay to get their refund. To expect the prior from a seller is absolutely & completely one sided, I am guessing that you are not a seller at all because it doesn't seem like you can see things from other perspectives at all and see things only from your point of view. It's okay you aren't alone in this world, how you can function in society without constant clashes with people you meet on a daily basis with that mentality is what astounds me.

I guess you are trying to make some kind of a point and are trying to paint yourself as some sort of victim of a sellers purposeful nefarious practice, when in reality they could have missed the writing and made an honest mistake, especially if they have employees that they work with that may not be professional dealers (something you never possibly could have done, I'm sure). Re-send them their card, get the refund, and get on with life... crisis averted.

**Side-Note**
As a seller of raw cards one of the biggest mistakes you can make is writing what the condition of the card is in your opinion, throw up some oversized scans and let people take responsibility for themselves. This will not avoid all problems but usually does the trick.

[Mdmtx]

Thank you for the personal insults Rhett.

[Mdmtx]

You are also mistaken. I do sell on eBay. I do get through life fine with my interpersonal relationships. I'm glad you had the ability to sum up my past history and my personality from a few posts where I feel like I was wronged. It must be fascinating to have the level of clarity.

[rhettyeakley]

Where was the personal insult? I must have missed that.

You seem to have all the answers so feel free to disregard my post like you have every other poster thus far.

[Mdmtx]

I haven't disregarded a single post. If you read back you will see that I admitted I was likely being petty. But to assume a buyer is less trustworthy than a seller? Another poster suggested the buyer assumes responsibility? Really? Why is everyone upset about maestro then? Why do we care about the auction houses and transparency if it's all buyer beware. I feel like this was obvious deception. I am a fairly serious buyer of cards. Almost 1k this week on net54, 1500 or so on eBay in the past week or so. 500 on a Facebook site. 800 at the recent Huggins and Scott. This is not my sop. I feel the seller was deceptive. Now I am supposed to trust him with the return? I agree it is a small dollar amount, at what amount does deception become important? Or is it only important when it happens to you? I have taken a lot of my time to make these posts. I guess either I have not articulated well or as a second option, several of you feel it's ok to over grade, misrepresent, and most importantly buyers can't be trusted and 40 dollar deals don't matter. I'm done talking about it.

[rhettyeakley]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-BOWMAN-FOOTBALL-158-TOM-CARROLL-NEW-YORK-YANKEES-/351498141246?hash=item51d6ebfe3e%3Ag%3AiDgAAOSwMmB V1Krm&nma=true&si=RifZBShthge38BeR2vBSwbiGnK4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

I wonder if they were upset they didn't get a football card or a card made by Bowman?

Honestly Mark, I don't really have a problem with you and am not going to block you or anything like that. As a buyer and seller on ebay I thought your initial posts were demanding and strange but we are all strange (we collect baseball cards). I probably shouldn't have posted the link above but I thought it was kinda funny and a bit ironic even though I know you weren't trying to deceive and you do have good pictures of the Carroll card.

[Buythatcard]

After reading some of the negative reviews that this Seller has, I can see why the OP did not trust him.

It just that you need to follow the correct eBay channels when returning the card. If the seller does not follow up with a refund, then you let eBay step in and at that point you should leave a negative. eBay is very good when it comes to refunding money to buyers who have gone thru all the correct channels. But looking at the Seller's history, another negative would not matter to him. I am surprised (not really) that he is even allowed to sell on eBay.

I just think this negative should not have been given until you filed a claim.

[kmac32]

To be honest about it, why is this thread even on the front page of the board. Seems like it is a dispute between a buyer and seller and has very little to do with vintage cards especially Prewar cards. Follow eBay policies and move on would be my honest opinion vs airing a grievance here that cannot be solved here. Just a thought.

[slidekellyslide]

Good lord. Dude, file a claim and request a shipping label. All you have to do is print the label, pack the card back up, slap the label on the package and put it in your mailbox. When it arrives the mailman scans it as delivered and ebay refunds your money. No money out of your pocket at all, unless you're going to bitch about the half cents worth of tape you have to use to pack it back up.

leaving a negative because he wouldn't refund you BEFORE you sent the card back is just idiotic.

edited to add: I just looked at this seller's feedback and he has 89 negatives in the past 12 months. Almost every single one of them is for a disagreement in grade.

[Leon]

I like to look at histories of sellers. This seller has a lot of feedback but a lot of negatives and neutrals. I have never seen that many negs and neutrals from a really good seller. On the point of refunds, buyers always have to return first according to ebay policy. And it works fine if you use the system..

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tripleplayvintagestore&ftab=AllFeedback

.


Good lord. Dude, file a claim and request a shipping label. All you have to do is print the label, pack the card back up, slap the label on the package and put it in your mailbox. When it arrives the mailman scans it as delivered and ebay refunds your money. No money out of your pocket at all, unless you're going to bitch about the half cents worth of tape you have to use to pack it back up.

leaving a negative because he wouldn't refund you BEFORE you sent the card back is just idiotic.

edited to add: I just looked at this seller's feedback and he has 89 negatives in the past 12 months. Almost every single one of them is for a disagreement in grade.

[tschock]

I like to look at histories of sellers. This seller has a lot of feedback but a lot of negatives and neutrals. I have never seen that many negs and neutrals from a really good seller. On the point of refunds, buyers always have to return first according to ebay policy. And it works fine if you use the system..

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tripleplayvintagestore&ftab=AllFeedback

.

I always look beyond the raw numbers as well (and you may be implying that). If a sell has 15 negs in the past month, but they were all from the same buyer (and maybe the same transaction for multiple cards), I try to understand why they gave a neg and see if that jives with others or if the buyer was just being a PITA.

[Leon]

I always look beyond the raw numbers as well (and you may be implying that). If a sell has 15 negs in the past month, but they were all from the same buyer (and maybe the same transaction for multiple cards), I try to understand why they gave a neg and see if that jives with others or if the buyer was just being a PITA.

Absolutely. There could be an explanation for negatives. I clicked on their negatives.

[Iwantmorecards77]

Just an update on my (somewhat similar) situation brought up earlier in this thread (I held off a bit so not to interfere with the original topic):

I'm still being hounded ("harassed") about a partial refund. I called eBay for assistance on how to handle this. The helpful employee looked at all of our messages and my stated return policy. He said I am not obligated to offer a partial refund and that I am following the stated return policy. He said if the buyer doesn't send it back - that's his decision. He may very well leave negative feedback (probably will.) If the buyer opens a return case - eBay will instruct him to return the card for a full refund - which is exactly what I have offered (going on 4 or 5 times.)

The messages from him have been threatening and he is accusing me of deceiving him - and also stated that if I re-sold the card, I "probably won't note the surface flaw." Well, there's only one way to find out - send it back! Haha

I know some sellers offer partial refunds. I sold the card for $202. The buyer takes 2 weeks to pay - then notices a surface flaw. I offered an immediate refund but it was declined. Then he wanted to return it - but changes his mind again. I do not feel that he should keep the card and get the $100 back that he's asking for. Plus - there is no policy stating I should have to. If it's defective - send it back like most sellers would offer.

I have stuck to my guns (the stated return policy) and have kept my messages polite and have not responded to his accusations and negativity - though that is getting him even more upset.

I realize he wanted to get the card signed. That's fine - but it's my job as a seller to follow policy and make sure any defective items are refunded, upon safe return. Having the card signed would change the situation, for sure - pretty much ending the transaction.

[TheNightmanCometh]

I like to look at histories of sellers. This seller has a lot of feedback but a lot of negatives and neutrals. I have never seen that many negs and neutrals from a really good seller. On the point of refunds, buyers always have to return first according to ebay policy. And it works fine if you use the system..

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=tripleplayvintagestore&ftab=AllFeedback

.

I raise you...

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=battlefield0516&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2050430.m2531.l4585

[pokerplyr80]

I raise you...

http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=battlefield0516&ftab=AllFeedback&myworld=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2050430.m2531.l4585

I know we've had enough battlefield discussions on this board. But how is a seller that has received over 100 negative feedback ratings in 12 months a top rated seller?

[TheNightmanCometh]

It's all based on percentage. Battlefield sells so many cards that even 100 negs doesn't effect her overall rating. I mean it does, just not enough to effect the percentage.