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View Full Version : Leland's sues Heritage over Clemente collection


Peter_Spaeth
02-19-2016, 12:19 PM
http://nypost.com/2016/02/18/prized-roberto-clemente-baseball-cards-center-of-legal-battle/

Rookiemonster
02-19-2016, 12:41 PM
Wow , can they really hold him on that ? It's been a few years ...

drcy
02-19-2016, 02:54 PM
Depends what the contract says.

sbfinley
02-19-2016, 03:36 PM
The Judge says she "can't stop the auction". Can't you just pull the handful of items?

the 'stache
02-19-2016, 07:44 PM
As an aside, Holy God, that Clemente rookie is unreal.

egbeachley
02-19-2016, 08:07 PM
He really screwed Leland's over. Hope the court allows Heritage to keep their share, then Leland's gets what they would have received, then he has to pay back the $25K with interest.

Steve D
02-19-2016, 10:28 PM
Personally, I don't see where Heritage has done anything wrong. A person consigns cards to them for auction, and they then put them up for said auction.

The consigner on the other hand, would seem to be liable for breach of contract, if the contract is determined to be valid; damages to be determined and paid by the consigner.

By the way, I am not a lawyer, and I have never stayed at a Holiday Inn Express ;)


Steve

Brian Van Horn
02-20-2016, 08:10 AM
These are the two quotes that put me on the side of Leland's:

"Leland says the collection’s owner, Ohio hobbyist Brian Slusser, signed an agreement with the company to let it peddle the memorabilia, thus landing a hefty commission."

"The lawsuit hinges on a handwritten, 2008 agreement where Slusser promised to sell his world-renowned Clemente card collection through Leland’s after Leland’s purchased his Clemente game bat, game glove and signed baseball for $200,000. Leland’s says it paid Slusser an additional $25,000 for the cards."

If money changed hands, and I am sure Leland's has a copy of the canceled check, then Leland's has a beef. Now, the logic behind the judge not ruling for a suspension of the sale at least of the cards is another matter. Here is that quote from the article:

“I am not stopping the auction for these six cards,” Scarpulla ruled, joking that her father was “the most rabid Mets fan in the history of the world.”

Don't stop the auction overall, but why not stop the cards until you have the testimony of Slusser on April 1?

JustinD
02-20-2016, 08:16 AM
A man is only as good as his word and violating a contract is inexcusable.

Sounds like he went to the Walmart school of legal business practice.

Jobu
02-20-2016, 08:25 AM
I can see letting the auction continue. Isn't it the case that just because the sale happens doesn't mean that Leland's claim on the proceeds disappears, it just becomes a defined monetary claim based on the sale price rather than an undefined claim based on potential commission? It might actually make things easier, and the price might be higher both bc HA made the sale and because there is the extra press bringing eyes to the sale.

Assuming no knowledge of what transpired with Leland's, one can say that Heritage was not wrong to accept the cards when the consigner signed a contract with them. However, just because a second contract was signed does not invalidate the first, so they might lose this one. Not exactly the same, but remember that the buyer of stolen goods is often the one who loses out.

Peter_Spaeth
02-20-2016, 12:01 PM
These are the two quotes that put me on the side of Leland's:

"Leland says the collection’s owner, Ohio hobbyist Brian Slusser, signed an agreement with the company to let it peddle the memorabilia, thus landing a hefty commission."

"The lawsuit hinges on a handwritten, 2008 agreement where Slusser promised to sell his world-renowned Clemente card collection through Leland’s after Leland’s purchased his Clemente game bat, game glove and signed baseball for $200,000. Leland’s says it paid Slusser an additional $25,000 for the cards."

If money changed hands, and I am sure Leland's has a copy of the canceled check, then Leland's has a beef. Now, the logic behind the judge not ruling for a suspension of the sale at least of the cards is another matter. Here is that quote from the article:

“I am not stopping the auction for these six cards,” Scarpulla ruled, joking that her father was “the most rabid Mets fan in the history of the world.”

Don't stop the auction overall, but why not stop the cards until you have the testimony of Slusser on April 1?

To get a preliminary injunction a party needs to demonstrate (among other things) "irreparable harm," that is, that it could not be made whole by an eventual award of money damages if it prevails on the merits of its claim. I have not seen the opinion but I would surmise that the court concluded that Leland's had failed to demonstrate irreparable harm.

Steve D
02-20-2016, 09:33 PM
The Clemente just sold for $478K.

Steve

Jdoggs
02-21-2016, 12:17 PM
Clemente PSA 10 rookie sold for $432k 4 years ago through scp auctions dmitri young collection.

frankbmd
02-21-2016, 12:23 PM
I would be interested in seeing both cards out of their holders and a poll generated to see folks pick which one is the 10 and which is the 9.

I suspect the results would be 60/40.;):eek::eek::eek::D

Peter_Spaeth
02-21-2016, 12:27 PM
I would be interested in seeing both cards out of their holders and a poll generated to see folks pick which one is the 10 and which is the 9.

I suspect the results would be 60/40.;):eek::eek::eek::D

I'm not sure you could distinguish even with a loupe. Especially knowing personally of many 9s that "bumped" to 10s which likely is a drop in the bucket.

glchen
02-21-2016, 12:40 PM
I'm not sure you could distinguish even with a loupe. Especially knowing personally of many 9s that "bumped" to 10s which likely is a drop in the bucket.

Although I think this is true in many cases, for this comparison, I think 99% would be able to see which one is the PSA 10 (Link (http://catalog.scpauctions.com/1955_topps__164_roberto_clemente_gem_mint_psa_10__-lot19147.aspx)) and which card was PSA 9 (Link (http://sports.ha.com/itm/baseball-cards/singles-1950-1959-/1955-topps-roberto-clemente-164-psa-mint-9/a/7155-80113.s?ic4=OtherResults-SampleItem-071515)).

Jobu
02-21-2016, 01:06 PM
I almost never closely look at high grade cards, but I am surprised that 10 got a 10 with the chipping on the bottom border. I think I might prefer the 9.

conor912
02-21-2016, 01:37 PM
I almost never closely look at high grade cards, but I am surprised that 10 got a 10 with the chipping on the bottom border. I think I might prefer the 9.

Agreed. that bottom edge is a nightmare (as far 10's go). It looks to be ever so slightly diamond cut, too. Personally, I'd rather buy a second home than own either card, but I suppose anyone spending that kind of money on a baseball card already has all the houses they want.

Pat R
02-21-2016, 01:39 PM
Could be the scans but I like the looks of the 9 better too. I would think the
big ink blob probably had an effect on the grade though.

glchen
02-21-2016, 01:41 PM
OK, maybe I am in the minority. I thought the 10 had noticeably stronger corners, and I didn't like that ink blob / print spot on the back of the 9.

Peter_Spaeth
02-21-2016, 01:53 PM
OK, maybe I am in the minority. I thought the 10 had noticeably stronger corners, and I didn't like that ink blob / print spot on the back of the 9.

I continue to puzzle how a card can be better than Mint. Unless you define Mint as less than Mint. In which case the whole thing is BS. Good marketing though, PSA read and cultivated its target audience well.

Mikehealer
02-21-2016, 02:05 PM
Could be the scans but I like the looks of the 9 better too. I would think the
big ink blob probably had an effect on the grade though.

As long as the ink is bold and clear on the $2 holder, that's probably what the buyer was most interested in seeing.

frankbmd
02-21-2016, 02:12 PM
As long as the ink is bold and clear on the $2 holder, that's probably what the buyer was most interested in seeing.

....and 10 always seems clearer than 9.:D:D

Iron Horse
02-21-2016, 03:04 PM
The 10 has much better corners then the 9. It is very obvious. I would be happy with a solid 7 :D

RichardSimon
02-21-2016, 04:25 PM
"Mastro said most high grade graded cards have been altered."
And Mastro told consignors that he could get higher grades on cards.

Those statements make you wonder when someone spends $400K on a card.
Makes me think that perhaps, maybe, perchance, possibly, there might have been some complicity between Mastro and a certain grading company:confused::confused::eek::eek:

steve B
02-21-2016, 11:26 PM
The lower edge doesn't bother me, although.....It's not as chipped as I'd expect.

The corners to me appear nearly equal, there's one that isn't really sharp on the 9.
But from the front the 9 is a better looking card.
And more importantly, on the back - the amount of toning on the 10 is a bad sign in the long run. I'd say it keeps it from being a 10, and long term will probably get worse.

If I had them in hand, and the price was the same, I'd buy the one in the 9 holder. (Is the yellow on the pirates hat a print variety? If they were cheap, I'd get them both! )

Steve B

slidekellyslide
02-21-2016, 11:53 PM
"Mastro said most high grade graded cards have been altered."
And Mastro told consignors that he could get higher grades on cards.

Those statements make you wonder when someone spends $400K on a card.
Makes me think that perhaps, maybe, perchance, possibly, there might have been some complicity between Mastro and a certain grading company:confused::confused::eek::eek:

A grader at one of the top grading companies has license to print money. I'm not saying this is happening or has happened, but a small favor could mean the difference between $20,000 and $400,000.

doug.goodman
02-22-2016, 05:48 PM
A grader at one of the top grading companies has license to print money. I'm not saying this is happening or has happened, but a small favor could mean the difference between $20,000 and $400,000.

There is no question that it has happened.

It's no accident that my favorite go to grading joke "Dmitri Young" was able to get so many of his cards upgraded.