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orly57
02-17-2016, 08:28 PM
Guys, sorry if you are friends with some of the sellers I'm about to mention, but I have noticed that Dean's Cards, 707, and Yepbg have some great cards, but their prices are unreal. I don't understand how they make any sales (and they must, because they are big dogs). I get that they have the market cornered on some cards, but I don't get it. I'm going off comparables when I say this. I'm not comparing apples to oranges either, I mean same grade and/or similar appearance. For example, Ruth strip cards that sell for $600-800 when a reasonable person sells them, are at 1600 obo by Yepbg. And his obo is always close to his buy it now because I've made offers to him in the past. Deans asks $1,000 over the actual value of every big card they have. How do these guys make a living and why would anyone pay those prices?

D.P.Johnson
02-17-2016, 08:36 PM
This has been discussed numerous times. Do a search for "Deans cards" and you'll find some good/interesting reading material...

Leon
02-17-2016, 08:36 PM
Guys, sorry if you are friends with some of the sellers I'm about to mention, but I have noticed that Dean's Cards, 707, and Yepbg have some great cards, but their prices are unreal. I don't understand how they make any sales (and they must, because they are big dogs). I get that they have the market cornered on some cards, but I don't get it. I'm going off comparables when I say this. I'm not comparing apples to oranges either, I mean same grade and/or similar appearance. For example, Ruth strip cards that sell for $600-800 when a reasonable person sells them, are at 1600 obo by Yepbg. And his obo is always close to his buy it now because I've made offers to him in the past. Deans asks $1,000 over the actual value of every big card they have. How do these guys make a living and why would anyone pay those prices?

Please put your full name in your post per the rules. Thanks

GregMitch34
02-17-2016, 08:43 PM
Mucho Denero.

orly57
02-17-2016, 08:55 PM
Please put your full name in your post per the rules. Thanks

Sorry Leon. Orlando Rodriguez

Brian Van Horn
02-17-2016, 08:58 PM
"Outrageous prices on ebay"

I feel your pain, but your title is redundant.

pokerplyr80
02-17-2016, 09:07 PM
I wonder if dean's or 707s prices for high end cards encourage buyers to make offers offline or through their personal websites. Perhaps this is where sales take place at reasonable prices. This is just a theory as I have never purchased from either.

Neal
02-17-2016, 09:19 PM
I am recently getting back into the hobby, after taking a break for a few years. The asking prices on eBay, for the stuff I collect, are higher than I have ever seen. I still long for the days of true auctions, not BINs or store prices.

Joe Yanello's auction is always a welcome sight, as is Sterling .... Hunts too.

Sophiedog
02-17-2016, 09:25 PM
I wonder if dean's or 707s prices for high end cards encourage buyers to make offers offline or through their personal websites. Perhaps this is where sales take place at reasonable prices. This is just a theory as I have never purchased from either.

I think you hit the nail on the head.

conor912
02-17-2016, 09:45 PM
I wonder if dean's or 707s prices for high end cards encourage buyers to make offers offline or through their personal websites. Perhaps this is where sales take place at reasonable prices. This is just a theory as I have never purchased from either.

You obviously have not been to their personal websites :)

Peter_Spaeth
02-17-2016, 09:50 PM
I wonder if dean's or 707s prices for high end cards encourage buyers to make offers offline or through their personal websites. Perhaps this is where sales take place at reasonable prices. This is just a theory as I have never purchased from either.

Not these sellers, but there are sellers with high BINs who telegraph their willingness to sell for less directly by including their phone numbers in the listing or by including it in a reply message.

mechanicalman
02-17-2016, 09:51 PM
Mucho Denero.

I'm not sure if it was intended, but I find your spelling of dinero highly appropriate to the conversation. :D

begsu1013
02-17-2016, 09:52 PM
I'm not sure if it was intended, but I find your spelling of dinero highly appropriate to the conversation. :D

hysterical!

got it immediately.

mechanicalman
02-17-2016, 09:55 PM
My favorite is this dude. This particular card is more than 3x the next highest card in the same grade.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/1934-Goudey-6-Dizzy-Dean-PSA-8-NM-MT-/251711049747?nav=SEARCH

Sam Swartz

orly57
02-17-2016, 10:20 PM
I buy a TON on eBay (and make a ton more side deals off-eBay), but I've never bought off 707, Yepbg, or Deans. All you guys buy what I buy. Have you bought off them? Someone has to be...

pokerplyr80
02-17-2016, 10:39 PM
You obviously have not been to their personal websites :)

I actually went to Dean's website when I was working on the 52 Topps set. Needless to say I did not end up making a purchase, or even making an offer. Seems like a pretty big operation though so obviously people are buying, even if they're not Net54 members.

I made 707 a couple of offers on Ebay but we weren't able to reach an agreement.

I honestly don't know how they both do so well. I must be missing something.

Head928
02-17-2016, 10:43 PM
I sold a few items to one of the previously mentioned at a Sun Times Chicago show close to 10 years ago. Some low grade pre-war, 1914 cracker jack, a Mathewson. The majority of those cards are still listed on their website. It was great because I would just buy those cards from another table (at their full price) then flip them to the "big dogs". More power to them as they seem to make it work .

Cliff Bowman
02-17-2016, 11:09 PM
I am obviously in the minority, but I have bought several times from Dean's Cards and have been happy with every purchase. I agree that their prices are outrageous for higher grade cards and it makes no sense to buy from them when you can get the same card cheaper elsewhere. But for one of the main things I collect, uncatalogued variation and printing error cards, they are a treasure trove if you take the time to hunt for them. They have high quality scans of the fronts and backs of cards, never have the card out of stock or send the wrong card, and ship immediately.

kmac32
02-17-2016, 11:32 PM
First off, you do not buy from Deans Cards off of ebay. He has a website and the cards are discounted by a percentage depending on how much money you spend. The percentage can range from 5 to 20% and shipping is free if you get over a certain dollar amount. As to the others, the price is always negotiable. There are ways around the asking prices and nobody is forced to buy.

Kmac

1952boyntoncollector
02-17-2016, 11:42 PM
I make fun of BIN and dealer prices as much as the next guy but think about it..

Dealers are usually going to ask prices for more than cards sell on ebay with PWCC..otherwise they would just consign the cards themselves..

they are offering a convenience...you dont have to wait around for an auction and also risk being outbid the last second or at 3 am...people will pay decent $ above 'market' for either of those conveniences..

when you think about the hours of time many spend scouring ebay and all those auctions sites day by day by day...maybe yeah you just saved $300 on a card...and you spent about 100 hours to do it....some people value time over money...who knows..

begsu1013
02-17-2016, 11:48 PM
i recently made a purchase from 707 and have purchased from him previously, albeit very rarely for the reasons mentioned above.

the card i purchased was indeed very nicely centered and should have carried the small premium, HOWEVER....

he said he did not want to use paypal gift and that paypal was looking into these "gifts" and that it was frowned up and he just didn't want anything to do w/ it. instead he wanted me to mail him a check or go to the post office and mail him a money order!?!?.

the deal almost fell apart over $10 because he didn't want pp gift, yet didn't want the fees to come out of his end either.

it was very, very odd.

has anyone heard anything about paypal frowning about using the "gift" for making purchases vs just sending friends and family money?

pokerplyr80
02-18-2016, 01:28 AM
has anyone heard anything about paypal frowning about using the "gift" for making purchases vs just sending friends and family money?

I had a seller tell me this once. Although he said it was fine to just use goods and he covered the fee. It certainly makes sense. Especially if your paypal account is set up with a business name.

Risking a $300 sale and losing a customer over a $10 paypal fee doesn't make as much sense to me.

PM770
02-18-2016, 07:51 AM
Back in the fall of 2014, I purchased a 100 card lot of 1960 Topps in VGEX for $60-65 from Dean's. Mostly commons with some minor stars. I thought that was a reasonably good deal.

I've bought mid to lower grade raw singles from time to time from 707 and believe it or not they were lowest price or close to it. At that end of the grading spectrum, 707 has some reasonably priced cards.

Both were good experiences so I would buy from them again. Obviously, If the prices are reasonable.

begsu1013
02-18-2016, 07:55 AM
I had a seller tell me this once. Although he said it was fine to just use goods and he covered the fee. It certainly makes sense. Especially if your paypal account is set up with a business name.

Risking a $300 sale and losing a customer over a $10 paypal fee doesn't make as much sense to me.


anyone else?

ALR-bishop
02-18-2016, 08:17 AM
I buy occasionally from Dean's for the reasons mentioned by Cliff. Good front and back scans if you are looking for off beat cards.

I buy from Levi because I like his hat. He does take checks and if you are a customer he sends cards, even high dollar items, for approval before payment . And he is honest.

Yep is high and does not seem very flexible, but he does have some unique stuff.

Some people have cards that they do not want to sell unless they get their price. This can be annoying to people who want to buy those cards at prices they would prefer to pay.

Do not know about Yep, but Dean and Levi seem to be doing ok :)

obcbobd
02-18-2016, 08:18 AM
I've made offers to 707 on some lower end cards, he usually rejects my offer and counters a few dollars off his initial asking price. Never made a deal. I see him at shows, great cards: Ruths, Gehrigs, Cobbs etc. All seem to be well over priced. I assume people buy from him for convenience, paying extra for a card because they don't have the time to search. Not sure how he's able to make a profit. I have heard the owner of 707, Levi I beleive is his name, is a grreat guy and very knowledgeable.

Snapolit1
02-18-2016, 08:21 AM
Some people put their house on the market not because they are dying to move but because they will move if a dream offer comes in. Sure it's no different with many eBay sellers.

begsu1013
02-18-2016, 08:35 AM
I buy from Levi because I like his hat. He does take checks and if you are a customer he sends cards, even high dollar items, for approval before payment . And he is honest.

+1

(especially on the hat and honesty factor)

orly57
02-18-2016, 08:47 AM
Some people put their house on the market not because they are dying to move but because they will move if a dream offer comes in. Sure it's no different with many eBay sellers.

That is a great point, and probably true for a lot of collectors on eBay. But it is stunning when it is an actual business.

Peter_Spaeth
02-18-2016, 08:53 AM
That is a great point, and probably true for a lot of collectors on eBay. But it is stunning when it is an actual business.

Why? If their model generates as much cash flow as they are looking for, then it's working for them.

Republicaninmass
02-18-2016, 09:01 AM
Here is a silly thought


Some dealers don't need the money, they are just hiding from their wife!

obcbobd
02-18-2016, 09:09 AM
Here is a silly thought


Some dealers don't need the money, they are just hiding from their wife!

This!

1952boyntoncollector
02-18-2016, 09:12 AM
Why? If their model generates as much cash flow as they are looking for, then it's working for them.

in addition, when they are firm on prices they dont have to worry about all the haggling and the time involved for the back and forth that result to many non deals....

Yoda
02-18-2016, 09:33 AM
I have often wondered how much better Levi would do if he showcased SGC and BVG graded cards rather than his apparently exclusive tie-up with PSA, although he certainly offers a ton of nice vintage cards at shows and on his web site. I think part of his success is the spread he achieves between the bid and asked prices I have never had much luck selling him any cards since his buy prices were quite low. His silent partner Jim in 707, I suspect, does most of the buying and Levi then prices the cards for sale. This, please guys, is only my conjecture as to how they operate. And I have to assume that PSA treats his card submissions the same as anybody else's. John Spencer
P.S. One related activity Levi provides is the reasonable rental of show cases to dealers, to which I availed myself several times over many years at the old Ft. Washington, PA show until I bit the bullet and bought my own.
P.P.S. Somebody once told me that before Levi got in the card business he was a champion drag racer in NJ. What a guy!

x2drich2000
02-18-2016, 09:35 AM
For 707 at least, I would also add to take a look at their registry sets and see what they have that is not listed for sale on ebay or their website. It quickly becomes obvious that if he needed cash, he would be able access it. Furthermore, look at the volume/amount of their sold items on ebay. They aren't doing too bad. So if you are not constrained by constant cash flow concerns, why go through the challenges of fighting over obtaining inventory? It always seemed to me that 707 priced his cards at what he feels something is worth rather than what other people say it is worth.

DJ

ALR-bishop
02-18-2016, 09:40 AM
Wonder if Jim thinks of himself as the Silent Partner :)

Republicaninmass
02-18-2016, 09:44 AM
Wonder if Jim thinks of himself as the Silent Partner :)

Yes, simply because he doesnt dress as loud as Levi

TheNightmanCometh
02-19-2016, 01:14 AM
Latest round of Venezuelans posted by our faves, Dean's cards and Yepbg. As per usual, disgustingly overpriced.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1964+topps+venezuela+braves&_sop=10&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.X1964+t opps+venezuela.TRS2&_nkw=1964+topps+venezuela&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1964+topps+venezuela&_sop=10&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.X1964+t opps+venezuelan.TRS0&_nkw=1964+topps+venezuelan&_sacat=0

1952boyntoncollector
02-19-2016, 07:28 AM
Latest round of Venezuelans posted by our faves, Dean's cards and Yepbg. As per usual, disgustingly overpriced.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1964+topps+venezuela+braves&_sop=10&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.X1964+t opps+venezuela.TRS2&_nkw=1964+topps+venezuela&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1964+topps+venezuela&_sop=10&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.X1964+t opps+venezuelan.TRS0&_nkw=1964+topps+venezuelan&_sacat=0



Venezuelans you never know on price because there are so few....i wouldnt call them out on those card....there is huge price disparity on same card sales....a PSA 1 Mantle that he has listed in 1964 for $1200 could sell for $500 but could also sell for $1000 ...who knows....when the POP is so small dealers are looking for that niche buyer..

anyway most of their cards yes very overpriced...but venezuelans, especially HOF's like Mantle you can see the same listed card with two dealers with a 400% difference in price which doesnt really occur in the non-venezuelan market...

TheNightmanCometh
02-19-2016, 09:31 AM
Venezuelans you never know on price because there are so few....i wouldnt call them out on those card....there is huge price disparity on same card sales....a PSA 1 Mantle that he has listed in 1964 for $1200 could sell for $500 but could also sell for $1000 ...who knows....when the POP is so small dealers are looking for that niche buyer..

anyway most of their cards yes very overpriced...but venezuelans, especially HOF's like Mantle you can see the same listed card with two dealers with a 400% difference in price which doesnt really occur in the non-venezuelan market...

I don't find it coincidental that when it comes to the two dealers with a 400% difference in the price, Dean and yep are consistently the higher priced dealer of the two.

1952boyntoncollector
02-19-2016, 09:40 AM
I don't find it coincidental that when it comes to the two dealers with a 400% difference in the price, Dean and yep are consistently the higher priced dealer of the two.

i agree but for venezeulans they have brothers in arms....

frankbmd
02-19-2016, 09:49 AM
Not these sellers, but there are sellers with high BINs who telegraph their willingness to sell for less directly by including their phone numbers in the listing or by including it in a reply message.

Beechwood 4-5789. ;)

Peter_Spaeth
02-19-2016, 10:04 AM
Beechwood 4-5789. ;)

Pennsylvania 6-5000

TheNightmanCometh
02-19-2016, 10:32 AM
i agree but for venezeulans they have brothers in arms....

Are they as big as those two? I wonder if regular folks who happen to just have some VZs for sale look at Dean's and Yep's prices and list theirs according to what those two list theirs for.

1952boyntoncollector
02-19-2016, 10:39 AM
Are they as big as those two? I wonder if regular folks who happen to just have some VZs for sale look at Dean's and Yep's prices and list theirs according to what those two list theirs for.

good point..it always funny to see pawn store shows when the ask the guy trying to sell the item where he got his price from he normally says 'thats what i see them for sale for'.....pawn guy always says 'they can ask for anything but that doesnt say what they sell for/what they worth'

TheNightmanCometh
02-19-2016, 10:49 AM
Exactly. More power to them if they want to sit on piles of inventory. I imagine they've probably done some sort of cost analysis that shows pricing their cards high and selling a few is more profitable than pricing their cards low and selling a lot. Or maybe I'm giving them way too much credit and they just like to price their stuff high. I have no way of knowing how much business they do, but I have to imagine they'd make more money pricing their cards more competitively, but I don't do what they do on a day to day basis, so that's pure conjecture.

kcohen
02-19-2016, 10:51 AM
Latest round of Venezuelans posted by our faves, Dean's cards and Yepbg. As per usual, disgustingly overpriced.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1964+topps+venezuela+braves&_sop=10&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR0.TRC0.A0.H0.X1964+t opps+venezuela.TRS2&_nkw=1964+topps+venezuela&_sacat=0

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1964+topps+venezuela&_sop=10&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.X1964+t opps+venezuelan.TRS0&_nkw=1964+topps+venezuelan&_sacat=0

With the Venezuelan economy in shambles and the devaluation of the Bolivar, they're probably priced appropriately. ;)

1952boyntoncollector
02-19-2016, 10:54 AM
Exactly. More power to them if they want to sit on piles of inventory. I imagine they've probably done some sort of cost analysis that shows pricing their cards high and selling a few is more profitable than pricing their cards low and selling a lot. Or maybe I'm giving them way too much credit and they just like to price their stuff high. I have no way of knowing how much business they do, but I have to imagine they'd make more money pricing their cards more competitively, but I don't do what they do on a day to day basis, so that's pure conjecture.

can always check the sold listings on ebay with them and see what they sell.

ALR-bishop
02-19-2016, 11:04 AM
Do not know about Yep but but when I buy from Deans or Levi I do it direct, not through eBay.

1952boyntoncollector
02-19-2016, 11:11 AM
Do not know about Yep but but when I buy from Deans or Levi I do it direct, not through eBay.

several sellers refuse to do deals directly, only through ebay..but they dont charge as much as those guys

ALR-bishop
02-19-2016, 11:19 AM
Right. If I do not know the seller or he know me, eBay is safer

mechanicalman
02-19-2016, 11:42 AM
can always check the sold listings on ebay with them and see what they sell.

This would only give you a small window into their performance. It would not capture their direct sales, nor does it give any insight to their cost basis on the cards sold. Not to mention, we have no idea of their overhead, staffing, or other expenses.

So, I agree that, until these businesses go public, we can only conjecture on the success, or lack thereof, of these players. I find it curious that some members just assume they're killing it (not saying you said that, Jake, but others have made the comment.) I recognize there may actually be attorneys or accountants on this board with intimate knowledge of their financials, but most would not have that visibility.

TheNightmanCometh
02-19-2016, 11:47 AM
This would only give you a small window into their performance. It would not capture their direct sales, nor does it give any insight to their cost basis on the cards sold. Not to mention, we have no idea of their overhead, staffing, or other expenses.

So, I agree that, until these businesses go public, we can only conjecture on the success, or lack thereof, of these players. I find it curious that some members just assume they're killing it (not saying you said that, Jake, but others have made the comment.) I recognize there may actually be attorneys or accountants on this board with intimate knowledge of their financials, but most would not have that visibility.

Correct. An eBay search only takes into account that one specific aspect of what they do. We already know Dean's has his own site, not sure on Yep. There are other issues we have no clue about as to why they price as high as they do. My best guess is they either feel that their pricing is the perfect balance between supply and demand (I don't think it is, but I don't have all the information), they are in on their cards for a lot, or they just like to price their stuff high and are able to wait it out. No matter what the reason, their prices are higher than what the actual market dictates, IMO. Some would argue that they sell cards, so that's the market, but that's a false narrative. The best indicator is however close they are to the middle of the supply and demand axis. I don't think they're center, but again, I'm only basing that on what I've looked at for their eBay sells. Lots of other means of selling than just eBay.

mark evans
02-19-2016, 05:43 PM
I bought a couple cards from Levi some years ago -- '52 Topps Minoso and Pitler as I recall. I was quite satisfied although I suspect I paid a premium for the cards. I admire Levi for his role in the hobby. Setting up at all the shows with an amazing array of cards. An honest and colorful guy -- a 'pillar' of the hobby in my view.

As to pricing, I've never had a problem with sellers who insist on a premium above auction/market value. The point I've made a couple of times is that eBay was a hell of a lot more fun and productive for collectors in the days of auctions, before the proliferation of BINs.

the 'stache
02-19-2016, 06:34 PM
Here is a silly thought


Some dealers don't need the money, they are just hiding from their wife!

Winner! Or, it's "honey, I swear, I'm trying to sell these cards."

1952boyntoncollector
02-19-2016, 06:59 PM
Correct. An eBay search only takes into account that one specific aspect of what they do. We already know Dean's has his own site, not sure on Yep. There are other issues we have no clue about as to why they price as high as they do. My best guess is they either feel that their pricing is the perfect balance between supply and demand (I don't think it is, but I don't have all the information), they are in on their cards for a lot, or they just like to price their stuff high and are able to wait it out. No matter what the reason, their prices are higher than what the actual market dictates, IMO. Some would argue that they sell cards, so that's the market, but that's a false narrative. The best indicator is however close they are to the middle of the supply and demand axis. I don't think they're center, but again, I'm only basing that on what I've looked at for their eBay sells. Lots of other means of selling than just eBay.


sold listings do mean something though..you can see who actually pays full retail value and when they do direct sales they will close those active listings as not available.......

TheNightmanCometh
02-19-2016, 08:13 PM
sold listings do mean something though..you can see who actually pays full retail value and when they do direct sales they will close those active listings as not available.......

I was gonna question if they put their entire supply on ebay and then I went ahead and noticed the Dean's Cards has over 250,000 listings, so yeah. LOL

egbeachley
02-19-2016, 11:39 PM
The answer is simple. If they sell at fair market prices, all the cards sell at low margins, they work hard to ship them out, and they have no more inventory. End of business.

By pricing them at double fair market, they sell a little at a time, don't rush to ship them out, but the profit margin is 8 times higher. A nice leisurely pace and they don't run out of inventory. And they make as much profit each month compared to selling them all right away.

Business model is predicated on the fact that when many collectors "need" a card, they have no patience and pay the higher price.

So basically, when anyone buys from these sellers, they overpay and keep the cycle of high-priced cards going.

1952boyntoncollector
02-20-2016, 09:41 AM
The answer is simple. If they sell at fair market prices, all the cards sell at low margins, they work hard to ship them out, and they have no more inventory. End of business.

By pricing them at double fair market, they sell a little at a time, don't rush to ship them out, but the profit margin is 8 times higher. A nice leisurely pace and they don't run out of inventory. And they make as much profit each month compared to selling them all right away.

Business model is predicated on the fact that when many collectors "need" a card, they have no patience and pay the higher price.

So basically, when anyone buys from these sellers, they overpay and keep the cycle of high-priced cards going.


right say what you want about PWCC auctions etc, but most of those auctions if you are patient will allow you to get the same card as BINs for far less ...but you have to be willing to wait..