1910 phillies unpublished photo, debut

[billyb]

Hi All,

A friend of mine sent me this photo to post as he wants to know the team and the players in the photo. The uniform matches the 1910 Phillies, the players I do not know. Maybe Johnny Bates, second from left.
The photo was take by his grandfather who signed on the back of this photo. It is embossed 8 x 10, and possible taken in the Detroit area. No date given when or where the photo was taken. Not much help I know, but what a great photo.
Any help would be appreciated. Here is the big challenge. Who is the umpire......LOL Just kidding there.

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[bmarlowe1]

Phillies had no collars after 1907. Overall - these don't match their pre-1908 uniforms that did have collars.

[billyb]

Thanks, The only clue I can give, was that the photographer was in the Flint, Michigan area at the time. The hat almost looks like an old English "D", but hard to tell.

[Tripredacus]

Only 3 of the uniformed players have the white striped hat with the D on it, the other 3 have a different hat.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

I am quite sure those are old English P's

[billyb]

I have been searching for teams with a nickname that started with a "p", but concentrating on a possible letter on the hat as a "d" or a "B".
When I first looked at the uniform, along with the hat, the 1910 Phillies had an away and a home hat. One was white with the letter, the other was dark, but no letter appeared on the hat. Identical to the photo. So I thought, maybe they were the Phillys, but with a practice uniform, but as Mark pointed out, they did not have collars after 1908. Beside, why would an umpire be there for practice.
So, not the Phillys.

I will go back and concentrate on the letter on the hat as possibly being a "P".

Again, the only clue was, the photographer, was living in Flint, Michigan at the time, of this photo, as his stamp is on the back, with a Flint, Michigan location, but no date given.

[ctownboy]

Billyb,

Have you ever thought about this being a photo of a company team? Flint was home to some auto companies back then and maybe they sponsored teams.

On Google, the Wikipedia page of Flint Automotive Industry says that Durant-Dort was one of the largest carriage makers in the country beginning in the late 1880's. They later broke apart and started making their own autos. Dort started in 1915 and Durant in 1921.

Buick started making cars in about 1903. GM started making cars there in the 1920's.

Looking up Flint baseball teams, Baseball Reference.com says that Flint had some Minor League teams as far back as 1889.

Hope this helps,

David

[billyb]

Ctown,

I have thought of that, but only Durant team I found so far was based out of Oklahoma. But thank you for your input. I am still searching, now at work, so cannot search too hard............on the sly sort of.

[ctownboy]

Billyb,

This might be a long shot but maybe the Durant team was nicknamed the Phillies?

Philadelphia had been the Phillies since the 1880's and since Durant-Dort was a large carriage maker maybe they took the name Phillies to go along with what their business was associated with.

David

[billyb]

Ctown,

Just got back home and checked my notes, I was wrong, no Durant, there was the Dothan Phillies, but they were out of Alabama, and started in the mid 1930s.

I am sort of looking at an 1880s team that was called the Detroit Ponies. They were said to have some young ballplayers, but I cannot find mjuch about them, or how long they existed.
There were also the Davenport Pirates, Darby Phantoms, Dubuque Packers, Dover Phillies, Davenport Prodigals. As you can see I concentrated on the letters "D" and "P". Only the Ponies were a local team.
Can't forget the Kalamazoo Celery Pickers.....LOL I had to just throw that one in there.

[etsmith]

There was a Packard plant that opened in Detroit in 1903, if it's a company team.--ESmith

[billyb]

This company team has some nice uniforms for the day. So I do believe they are an organized team at some level. The guy in the middle that has not got on a uniform, could he be the manager???
They even have a bat boy in the middle..................oops, that is just a short ball player.................never mind.

[murphusa]

.

Team looks to be the Kalamazoo Printers

Caps don't matter as it looks like 1 is wearing a Tigers cap and the others are similar on the right

[billyb]

Thanks Murph, The Pickers were in existence in 1911- 1912. They were called other nicknames in other years. I was able to see one of their uniforms, but the "P" was centered in their jerseys, not the left breast side of the uniform. But the closest one so far.
Plus Kalamazoo is on the opposite side of the state then Filnt, probable 200 miles apart.
The largest cities beginning with a "P", in fairly near vicinity to Flint is Pontiac, and Port Huron.
But I do appreaciate the effort.

[murphusa]

Thanks Murph, The Pickers were in existence in 1911- 1912. They were called other nicknames in other years. I was able to see one of their uniforms, but the "P" was centered in their jerseys, not the left breast side of the uniform. But the closest one so far.
Plus Kalamazoo is on the opposite side of the state then Filnt, probable 200 miles apart.
The largest cities beginning with a "P", in fairly near vicinity to Flint is Pontiac, and Port Huron.
But I do appreaciate the effort.

But they played in the southern Michigan league and against Flint

[billyb]

Jim,
The photo I showed could be the Kalamazoo Printers. The photo I looked at, was a latter 1850s photo of a Kalamazoo team.
The article I attached, states the locale Kalamazoo teams consisted of Printers, factory workers and the such, but the locale top Kalamazoo team, in 1910 was known as the Kalamazoo White Soxs. This is a good article.
These Kalamazoo teams were very competitive and out of these teams, became the 5 Ganzel brothers. Two of which would go on to play major league ball, with the Wolverines and Boston Bean Eaters. This family became Michigan's first family of baseball, and were very popular.
So the photo could be a group of Printers out of Kalamazoo. But will keep on checking to try to confirm this.
Thanks Jim.

http://northwoodsleague.com/kalamazoo-growlers/community/kzoo-baseball-history/