ebay sucks...advice needed

[ullmandds]

I sold some wacky packages a few weeks ago...and just today the buyer is requesting a refund claiming goods were damaged because they were not packaged well.

These cards/stickers were in average/used condition and were packaged just fine.

I send the buyer over 300 loose cards/stickers including a few scarcities.

I feel the buyer is having buyers remorse because the condition is not what he was hoping for. Additionally I am concerned he may have switched some cards/stickers or even removed some.

My auctions said no returns but this does not seem to matter.

Any sugggestions?

Thanks.

[Peter_Spaeth]

A few weeks ago? Fight it. Totally unreasonable.

[brob28]

I agree with Peter, a few weeks is too long, a few days would be reasonable.

[JCC]

eBay will allow returns if he lists the item not as described. It doesn't matter if you allow returns in your listing or not, eBay rules override that. They will allow returns up to 30 days past the expected delivery date.

[ullmandds]

well it seems that ebay does not abide by the "rational man" theorem. I called them and they suggest I contact the seller to attempt to resolve the issue prior to ebay intervening and almost guaranteed they will side with the seller.

[ullmandds]

i made no claims to condition in my auctions...

[jfkheat]

I believe Ebay allows up to 45 day to request a refund and Paypal is up to 180 days. If the buyer files a not as described claim there is a 99% chance he will win. It is one of the many flaws with how Ebay works. Having "no returns" in your description doesn't mean anything. I hope it works out for you but be prepared to issue a refund.
James

[slidekellyslide]

Ebay will side with the buyer. Guaranteed...the buyer can do no wrong in ebay's eyes. Not only that, but they will also make you pay return shipping. So not only did this guy probably switch cards on you, he did it completely on your dime.

[3-2-count]

This is why I do not sell on EBay.

Sorry Pete...

[mrmopar]

I do not sell at this point, but think I would like to someday and I worry about things like that. years ago, I sold for a shop and a few odd things of my own and it seemed like I always attracted a flake in every batch I sold, but it was mostly low end stuff and my issues seemed to be a lot of non-paying bidders. In the past, as a buyer, I was scammed a few times with bait/switch and non-receipt and it really pisses you off.

However, I want to believe that even though these types of situations really sting and stick in your mind, that they are the small minority of transactions.

[Iron Horse]

Sorry to hear that Pete.
I sold a Topps Black Chrome Lebron James PSA 10 like 2 years ago. About 48 days after the auction had ended the guy requests to send the card back. I called ebay and they said he claimed that he sent the card to BGS to have it cross. Obviously if it went into a BGS10 card would be $$$$. BGS sent it back supposedly saying card was shaved on upper border.
Had to refund him his $850. Wish i had that card now lol
ebay sucks if you are selling stuff and the buyer is not an honest or resonable person.

[ullmandds]

i kinda figured I had no recourse...still waiting to hear back from buyer. and I assume if I refuse to pay ebay would boot me over $50 right?!

[Tedski_TX]

Ebay is not the demon many people make them out to be. The deck is not automatically stacked against sellers. A buyer once filed a claim against me, but I gave ebay a persuasive defense, and ebay could see the messages that passed between the buyer and me. Ebay ended up refunding the guy's money out of their own pocket (though they didn't remove the buyer's negative feedback :mad:)

[bbcard1]

It's a rigged game, but it's the best game out there. I do not sell high value items on ebay, but it's great for midrange items. It can also be very good for just plain odd stuff

[Jeff1970Red]

Just received my first PSA submission back, 4 of the 15 cards were not graded. All purchased from three separate "reputable" e-bay sellers. Two of the sellers have not returned multiple messages.

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[bobbyw8469]

Just received my first PSA submission back, 4 of the 15 cards were not graded. All purchased from three separate "reputable" e-bay sellers. Two of the sellers have not returned multiple messages.

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If one of those sellers is Battlefield or Great Lakes Auction House, you could have saved yourself alot of headache by reading here first. They have a pattern of their card selling, that nets them alot of money, but doesn't favor a buyer of their cards.

[edhans]

This is why I do not sell on EBay.

Sorry Pete...

+1

[Cozumeleno]

i kinda figured I had no recourse...still waiting to hear back from buyer. and I assume if I refuse to pay ebay would boot me over $50 right?!

I don't think it's a matter of refusing - they will likely debit your account directly linked to eBay or Paypal upon receipt of the buyer sending everything back.

I sell on eBay quite a bit but hate selling lots like that one for fear of that happening. It's just annoying. I'd fight it, even though your case will be a hard one. You never know who will be on the receiving end and consider it. Also, if they have had other issues with that buyer and returns, that may help you. Plus, even if you lose you'll get some (if not all) of the collection back since the buyer will have to show it was sent back and received by you before getting a refund (I think).

Good luck.

[Rookiemonster]

The buyer will have to send it back for your inspection ! If you say they are not the cards you sent and /or some are missing . You win :cool:

[D. Bergin]

The buyer will have to send it back for your inspection ! If you say they are not the cards you sent and /or some are missing . You win :cool:

The buyer can send back an empty box, and if tracking shows delivered he loses.

A sellers word means absolutely zero to Ebay..............and even less to Paypal.

[ALR-bishop]

...wins ? Buyer

[Rookiemonster]

The buyer can send back an empty box, and if tracking shows delivered he loses.

A sellers word means absolutely zero to Ebay..............and even less to Paypal.

Not true , the seller has to inspect what the buyer sent back to make sure it's what the seller sold . I been though this it's a fact .

[Snapolit1]

I have sold on EBay and 98% no bad issues. But then something rears up (usually buyer's remorse) and it's a major pain. Then again, sure people do the same thing at card shows.

[ullmandds]

I have sold on EBay and 98% no bad issues. But then something rears up (usually buyer's remorse) and it's a major pain. Then again, sure people do the same thing at card shows.

I agree 100%

[CurtisFlood]

I quit feebay around 2003. It was profitable but time consuming and the exasperation of situations like this made it not worth my time. It is my understanding that it has only gotten worse in the last 12 or so years.

[Cozumeleno]

I quit feebay around 2003. It was profitable but time consuming and the exasperation of situations like this made it not worth my time. It is my understanding that it has only gotten worse in the last 12 or so years.

It is definitely worse in terms of much less protection for sellers and the fact that buyers cannot receive negative feedback pretty much makes it open season. Buyers are much more brazen about feedback knowing there is no retaliation.

All of that said, in terms of actual bad transactions, I have to say that I really am not having any more than I did ten years ago there. I think it is much easier for buyers to get away with things now but overall, the amount of problems I personally have is still very small. There are times when it gets frustrating but there really are few options out there and none offer the exposure of eBay.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Just received my first PSA submission back, 4 of the 15 cards were not graded. All purchased from three separate "reputable" e-bay sellers. Two of the sellers have not returned multiple messages.

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If cards advertised as being high grade are not in holders, there is frequently a reason.

[bmattioli]

It's a rigged game, but it's the best game out there. I do not sell high value items on ebay, but it's great for midrange items. It can also be very good for just plain odd stuff

Thus is EBay.. Very true..

[Scocs]

Sadly, this seems to be the Truth....

If cards advertised as being high grade are not in holders, there is frequently a reason.

[Head928]

If your selling frequently something like this will come up in about 1% of your sales. Ebay will side with the buyer in most cases. You will save yourself a headache by accepting the return, block the bidder, then move on to something more worth your time.

[cammb]

I would definitely fight it.. Ebay does not allow a return for buyers remorse and this is exactly what it is It is not an appliance or something electrically working etc. I have won on two occaisions. If you lose, you will have to send him a return label. Please do this. If you make the seller return on his dime, he may send it via fed Ex or UPS and you will have to pay that.

[sporteq]

Call ebay/paypal... tell them your situation. Then go over your listing with them. Make them aware... that YOU have a "NO" refund as stated in your auction listing. Also let them (ebay/paypal) know that you couldn't refund your buyer anyhow, do to the fact that, they could possibly TAMPERED with your product and it could be worth much less now.


It's up to the BUYER to read the listing properly. The buyer should NOT have bid if he/she read the listing correctly.

YOU WIN!!!

best of luck!

[ullmandds]

I called ebay...told them my story...they encouraged me to try to come to terms with the buyer before they intervene.

I sent buyer an email accusing him of buyers remorse and reiterating that I made no claims to condition in listing and have a no return policy...I have not heard back?

[Runscott]

Ebay will side with the buyer. Guaranteed...the buyer can do no wrong in ebay's eyes. Not only that, but they will also make you pay return shipping. So not only did this guy probably switch cards on you, he did it completely on your dime.

Sadly, this is true. Your best way around these problems is to do bending-over exercises each morning.

[Runscott]

I called ebay...told them my story...they encouraged me to try to come to terms with the buyer before they intervene.

I sent buyer an email accusing him of buyers remorse and reiterating that I made no claims to condition in listing and have a no return policy...I have not heard back?

Pete, just a word of warning - If the buyer withdraws his complaint he is allowed to leave negative feedback. If ebay closes the case (finds in your favor), he is not allowed to leave feedback.

[JCC]

I called ebay...told them my story...they encouraged me to try to come to terms with the buyer before they intervene.

I sent buyer an email accusing him of buyers remorse and reiterating that I made no claims to condition in listing and have a no return policy...I have not heard back?
yeah, from what you are saying ebay told you, it sounds like they want you to go ahead and refund the buyer on your own. if you don't, they will refund for you if/when the buyer opens a case, and will simply take the money out of your account.

[ullmandds]

yeah, from what you are saying ebay told you, it sounds like they want you to go ahead and refund the buyer on your own. if you don't, they will refund for you if/when the buyer opens a case, and will simply take the money out of your account.

yes...this was my interpretation as well!

[ullmandds]

Pete, just a word of warning - If the buyer withdraws his complaint he is allowed to leave negative feedback. If ebay closes the case (finds in your favor), he is not allowed to leave feedback.

im not so sure i really care about 1 negative? should i be more concerned?

[vthobby]

Pete,

You will lose this case. I am sorry I am being so direct but I just had a case that was 95 days old!!!!! I offered 14 day returns and the guy files a claim 95 days after the auction ended!!!!!! I can not make this up.

ScreamBay does not care about sellers. They will possibly listen to your truths and then tell you there is nothing they can do. The buyer will win. In my case, I just stalled as long as I could and only responded on the last day that Ebay said I needed to. They took my money back. Mine was very similar where the buyer simply had a change of heart or buyers remorse and filed the claim. I would have never guessed that Ebay would even remotely allow this since it was so long but they did. Luckily it was a pretty small deal but still a pain as you know.

They simply do not care. Sorry man.

Mike

[ullmandds]

i realize i dont have much of a chance here...im just going to make it as inconvenient for the buyer as possible.

[glchen]

As mentioned by others, you will almost definitely lose this case. However, if you want the smallest chance to win, you would need to talk to someone at ebay over the phone when they are ready to make a decision to rule on the case. I've had several cases in the past when ebay made incredible decisions b/c someone in the case called ebay and managed to convince them to take their side. Afterwards, I managed to call ebay back, and successfully appeal the decision. However, winning the appeal only meant that ebay reimbursed me out of their own pocket. The person on the other side of the case managed to scam ebay out of its money.

[Stetson_1883]

Ebid.net

:D

[Tedski_TX]

Just received my first PSA submission back, 4 of the 15 cards were not graded. All purchased from three separate "reputable" e-bay sellers. Two of the sellers have not returned multiple messages.

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If what 95% of the posters on this topic say is true (ebay is rigged against sellers; sellers' word means nothing; ebay protects buyer at all cost, etc) you should have no trouble getting a refund.

[Sean1125]

If what 95% of the posters on this topic say is true (ebay is rigged against sellers; sellers' word means nothing; ebay protects buyer at all cost, etc) you should have no trouble getting a refund.

eBay isn't rigged. You just need to know how it works.

That being said there are still a very, very small percent of buyers that understand how the system works to the point that they could extort the seller with the seller having no recourse, that extortion is limited to their purchase price including original shipping and shipping back to the seller. I get to speak for a very large sample size of the market - the chance of this happening in any one transaction is .000000062%

Had Ull responded asking for photographs of the packaging materials and goods in the package he would have had a chance to win the case, but with how he reacted he was "forced" into a refund. 49 times out of 50 the buyer threw out the packaging and won't provide proper photographs, resulting in winning your side - them calling eBay and appealing, and eBay sending them a refund out of eBay's own pocket while you still keep your money. See - both parties are happy - that is all eBay cares about.

eBay simply wants you to walk (not run) through the process they have set up that is "buyer and seller protection". As with the government - you need to file the proper forms, cross your t's and dot your i's. eBay is becoming more and more bureaucratic. Someone will always find a loophole to abuse on both sides of the buying/selling spectrum. As I post in my signature, if you ever need advice about an eBay situation PLEASE reach out to me. I can help you. I deal with this many times a day. It is my job.

Edit - Fixed some math. I think. It's early on a Sunday and I haven't had my coffee yet.
Edit again - Now the math is fixed. I had missed a 0. Coffee operational.

[gregr2]

As I post in my signature, if you ever need advice about an eBay situation PLEASE reach out to me. I can help you. I deal with this many times a day. It is my job.

^^^ This is very true. I have asked Sean a few questions via PM about eBay transactions when I had weird stuff going on and his advice was always spot on. Thanks Sean!

[ullmandds]

this was my response...to which I have not heard back:

"I need you to provide me with evidence/proof these items arrived damaged...as I think you are just having buyers remorse because they are not what you may have hoped for. I made no claim to condition in my auctions...and I do not have a return policy...let alone almost 3 weeks after you received the items. I have contacted ebay regarding this."

[thetruthisoutthere]

eBay isn't rigged. You just need to know how it works.

That being said there are still a very, very small percent of buyers that understand how the system works to the point that they could extort the seller with the seller having no recourse, that extortion is limited to their purchase price including original shipping and shipping back to the seller. I get to speak for a very large sample size of the market - the chance of this happening in any one transaction is .000000062%

Had Ull responded asking for photographs of the packaging materials and goods in the package he would have had a chance to win the case, but with how he reacted he was "forced" into a refund. 49 times out of 50 the buyer threw out the packaging and won't provide proper photographs, resulting in winning your side - them calling eBay and appealing, and eBay sending them a refund out of eBay's own pocket while you still keep your money. See - both parties are happy - that is all eBay cares about.

eBay simply wants you to walk (not run) through the process they have set up that is "buyer and seller protection". As with the government - you need to file the proper forms, cross your t's and dot your i's. eBay is becoming more and more bureaucratic. Someone will always find a loophole to abuse on both sides of the buying/selling spectrum. As I post in my signature, if you ever need advice about an eBay situation PLEASE reach out to me. I can help you. I deal with this many times a day. It is my job.

Edit - Fixed some math. I think. It's early on a Sunday and I haven't had my coffee yet.
Edit again - Now the math is fixed. I had missed a 0. Coffee operational.

Sean excellent comment.

I'm certainly not a big Ebay seller, but you know what I do; I video-tape myself packing every Ebay item that I sell.

[egbeachley]

i realize i dont have much of a chance here...im just going to make it as inconvenient for the buyer as possible.

I've often wondered what would happen if a buyer returned product without Signature Confirmation and it was "not received".

[ullmandds]

I've often wondered what would happen if a buyer returned product without Signature Confirmation and it was "not received".

well honestly...the thought of an insurance claim against the usps DID cross my mind??? I mean if the buyer is claiming the items arrived damaged?

[ullmandds]

buyer just responded with..."what did ebay tell you?"

Any suggestions?

[ls7plus]

A few weeks ago? Fight it. Totally unreasonable.

Totally agree--way too long!

Best wishes,

Larry

[AGuinness]

From the sound of it, it seems like a scammer could pretty easily buy a slabbed card, say a PSA 7 1952 Topps Mantle, crack the case, replace the card with a forged/altered version, claim that it arrived damaged, return the "damaged" goods and get a refund, totally hosing the seller. Then do it over and over and over...

Doesn't eBay realize the potential for something like this to happen? Is there no recourse for sellers like this?

If a buyer returns an item but has replaced it (or kept a card or two from a larger lot), are they exposing themselves to mail fraud? That always seemed to be one of the bigger risks scam artist sellers might face if they did something like that.

I've sold a few things on eBay, but the fees really bug me, so I stopped. Never ran into a bad situation, luckily.

[Sean1125]

From the sound of it, it seems like a scammer could pretty easily buy a slabbed card, say a PSA 7 1952 Topps Mantle, crack the case, replace the card with a forged/altered version, claim that it arrived damaged, return the "damaged" goods and get a refund, totally hosing the seller. Then do it over and over and over...

Doesn't eBay realize the potential for something like this to happen? Is there no recourse for sellers like this?

If a buyer returns an item but has replaced it (or kept a card or two from a larger lot), are they exposing themselves to mail fraud? That always seemed to be one of the bigger risks scam artist sellers might face if they did something like that.

I've sold a few things on eBay, but the fees really bug me, so I stopped. Never ran into a bad situation, luckily.

If the behavior is repetitive eBay knows this and takes action. The case you are describing just doesn't happen in my experience.

[Sean1125]

buyer just responded with..."what did ebay tell you?"

Any suggestions?

Has the buyer provided you with photographs of how the item arrived? All reasonable buyers would of course keep their packaging and take photos if an item arrived damaged.

Parrot your earlier sentiment and leave out the extra words this time. Just ask if he can provide photographs of the item and packaging. Report back after he can't and let me know if he appealed or the next action so I can tell you what to do.

The more you say in the case and to/through eBay the harder this becomes for you to win.

[ullmandds]

well the buyer never furnished me photos...the date had arrived where ebay was to intervene and to be honest I had no desire to deal with return shipping...and relisting these items I was selling for a friend...SO...I offred the buyer a partial refund...he/she demanded more...I just caved to make this disappear.


i suppose this is good news for the AH's as ebay has become a "battlefield!"

[Sean1125]

well the buyer never furnished me photos...the date had arrived where ebay was to intervene and to be honest I had no desire to deal with return shipping...and relisting these items I was selling for a friend...SO...I offred the buyer a partial refund...he/she demanded more...I just caved to make this disappear.


i suppose this is good news for the AH's as ebay has become a "battlefield!"

You would not have been forced into this situation if you responded properly. Do not interact with someone who has made unreasonable demands. Treat them like a retail customer, do not let emotions get involved. Ask for additional information and make an informed decision. Contesting them just because you want to leads to negative emotions for both parties and trouble for the selling party.

[Zach Wheat]

Call ebay/paypal... tell them your situation. Then go over your listing with them. Make them aware... that YOU have a "NO" refund as stated in your auction listing. Also let them (ebay/paypal) know that you couldn't refund your buyer anyhow, do to the fact that, they could possibly TAMPERED with your product and it could be worth much less now.


It's up to the BUYER to read the listing properly. The buyer should NOT have bid if he/she read the listing correctly.

YOU WIN!!!

best of luck!

Returns are required by eBay if the buyer claims the "...listing is not as described" even in auctions with "no refunds". And from my experience eBay interprets that very loosely, always favoring buyers. That being said, as a seller of other items (non-BB cards), I have opened cases against buyers when they have tried to take advantage of me and have not lost a case yet.

Z