Lifetime Authenticity Guarantee

[Klrdds]

I have not seen this topic addressed before but I was wondering what should a lifetime authenticity guarantee mean?
I am not talking about items with PSA or JSA certs or on eBay . I am talking about items that all of us have bought at shows , through dealers , through private signings , through auction houses that came with Lifetime Guarantee certs from the dealer/vendor or on their receipts or in their ads or on their auction house letterhead / receipts . Remember no PSA or JSA certs.
For most collectors at the present this may seem strange not to have a TPA Letter from PSA or JSA but in the old days pre PSA and pre JSA that is how it was done.
So addressing this should the Lifetime Guarantee be or better stated what defines Lifetime :
1. For the life of the seller OR his business ?
2. For the life of the buyer ?
3. For the life of the item ?
4. For the life of the original consignor of the item to the seller or auction ( that is the original source of the autograph) ?
5. For the life of not the primary buyer who later sold the item again but the life of the secondary or tertiary or later buyer?
Also what should be the recourse if the lifetime guarantee is called into question?
A full refund regardless of length of time since purchase ?
A full credit to the buyer from the seller after a certain period of time after the purchase ?
A combination refund and credit?
Submission to the gods at PSA or JSA to render their opinion , and who should pay for the submission , the buyer or seller ?
In our hobby we tend to accept a lot at face value but with the forgeries getting better , the overall number of items whether authentic or forged entering the market increasing , policing policies non - existent , big money involved , collectors with little or no knowledge buying , dealers with little or no knowledge selling, guestionable authenticity practices by auction houses as well as by JSA and PSA , and JSA and PSA becoming reluctant to authenticate some players unless they are on contracts or checks or legal documents should make a collector / dealer consider what a Lifetime Authenticity Guarantee really means. This obviously applies to baseball HoF ers autographs primarily but I feel it can apply to all baseball player autographs as well as other categories of autographs also.
Would love to hear opinions on this whether you agree or disagree .
Thanks

[Duluth Eskimo]

This seems like an easy question and should be quite clear. I guarantee everything I sell for life. That is the life of the item. It has nothing to do with who owns the item as they were assuming the autograph is good.

Also, when you purchase an item for cash, that is the guarantee. If it is a trade, then that complicates it a little. It should still be a deal the owner of the original item is comfortable with or the value of the autograph when it was originally sold.

Lastly, the price paid for a 3rd party opinion should be the responsibility of the person paying for it. They want the opinion, not the seller. I sometimes sell items with those LOA's, but I have no responsibility to provide one. I only guarantee the item is authentic. Now if there was disagreement on the authenticity of the item and both buyer and seller were to agree on the opinion of the 3rd party, then maybe they split the fee.

Any other "guarantees" really aren't a guarantee or that's the way I see it. I sell many items to the end user and feel responsible to provide them an absolutely authentic item. Jason

[mighty bombjack]

The more slippery (slipperier?) question is not what is the recourse, but rather what means would be acceptable for proving an autograph is no good (short of, like, a Ruth auto on a 1970 baseball). Some sellers say "if it fails any third party authentication," which is pretty clear. On the flip side, I posted a few years ago about a joke of an auction house that had a guarantee, but you had to look at the fine print that said something like "if your autenticator finds something wrong, we reserve the right to have the forensic document examiner of our choice make the final determination." That is also quite clear, albeit in a very different way. Basically, whenever I see a cheap, generic LOA from "John Doe Coolectibles" that provides a lifetime guarantee, I think that if I contacted them and said "everyone I've asked says this is fake," they would say "we think it's real and they're wrong."

[RichardSimon]

"if your autenticator finds something wrong, we reserve the right to have the forensic document examiner of our choice make the final determination. "

(of course he has never found anything not authentic).

[Duluth Eskimo]

Well, I can only speak for myself. I have made mistakes in the past as I'm sure others have too. Anyone who says they haven't is a liar. All one can do is return the persons money or do you best to make the initial deal right.

[thetruthisoutthere]

This is hilarious!!!

One of the various COAs that accompany the "Florida" forgeries.


214896

[Mr. Zipper]

The COA alone is enough to send one running away from an item attached to it. How sound anyone enjoy the item after reading that?!?

[drcy]

The regular use of "OPINION" doesn't give you confidence?

[RichardSimon]

I want to see the "substantial, verifiable and court recognized, exemplar file" There is no such thing in the world. Can you imagine a court taking the time to verify an exemplar file. OMG, that COA is a sham.
Tony, you should do a better fake COA then that.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Here's another one:


It is actually "CSC Collectibles."

CSC Collectibles is on Ebay's Banned COA List.





215069

[Klrdds]

Blow your nose with that COA !!
Both from Margate , Fl wonder if the same people running parallel businesses .

[thetruthisoutthere]

Blow your nose with that COA !!
Both from Margate , Fl wonder if the same people running parallel businesses .

The "Florida" forgeries are accompanied by well over a dozen various COAs.