View Full Version : PSA? I doubt it.
xplainer
12-04-2015, 01:16 PM
Got this from another forum. Supposed to be from PSA. It was said it was deleted after a few minutes.
What you guys think?
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/03/0d863495bff985c533d4ae30ad5f765b.jpg[/QUOTE]
vintagetoppsguy
12-04-2015, 01:22 PM
I'm not sure I understand. Is that supposed to be s PSA grader measuring a card? If so, that's a scary sight. Then again, it could be a pic of anyone, so I don't give it too much credibility.
D. Bergin
12-04-2015, 01:23 PM
Are we supposed to be under the impression they are using some sort of laser guided technology to measure cards with?
My fear would be that the moron that is using the measuring device would accidentally scratch the card and then downgrade the card because of a surface blemish.
iwantitiwinit
12-04-2015, 01:31 PM
Are those George Costanzas hands?
4815162342
12-04-2015, 03:06 PM
Are those George Costanzas hands?
He probably wears oven mitts for protection between grades.
gnaz01
12-04-2015, 03:14 PM
he probably wears oven mitts for protection between grades.
lol!!!
pokerplyr80
12-04-2015, 04:11 PM
I would hope they'd be a little more careful than that with such a high profile card. My guess is that's a fake. The picture and the Jordan RC most likely.
KCRfan1
12-04-2015, 05:14 PM
Are those George Costanzas hands?
I hope he is " master of his domaine ", and doesn't end up like Ray McKigney...
ls7plus
12-04-2015, 06:10 PM
Little point in measuring--can't determine its trimmed that way--have to look at the edges under magnification.
Larry
vintagetoppsguy
12-04-2015, 06:20 PM
Exactly, Larry. That's why I said its a scary sight. A grader should never measure a card. If there is any doubt about it being trimmed, the grader should examine the cut pattern under magnification.
glynparson
12-05-2015, 01:35 AM
I have never seen a grader use a ruler to measure a card for trimming.
Sean1125
12-05-2015, 07:36 AM
I have never seen a grader use a ruler to measure a card for trimming.
You use a ruler to measure the card for factory miscut and min size. You use your eyes to check for trimming.
Hold the card horizontal to your eyes and bring your eyes from the left of the border to the right of the border. Does it seem wavy at all? Is there any inconsistencies? After you check for that you are going to look at the paper fibers and see if it has a factory stock, if it's smooth (trimmed) or some other method.
vintagetoppsguy
12-05-2015, 08:44 AM
You use a ruler to measure the card for factory miscut and min size. You use your eyes to check for trimming.
Hold the card horizontal to your eyes and bring your eyes from the left of the border to the right of the border. Does it seem wavy at all? Is there any inconsistencies? After you check for that you are going to look at the paper fibers and see if it has a factory stock, if it's smooth (trimmed) or some other method.
That's just it, Sean. Minimum Size Requirement should not even be an option. If a card is short, there are only 1 of 2 possible reasons - either it is trimmed, or it was cut short from the factory. If it was cut short from the factory, but displays characteristics of a factory cut then it should be slabbed. PSA uses that Minimum Size crap as a crutch because they don't have the knowledge to tell if a cut is factory or not.
David - agree with that.
The only thing is when a card is a bit too short or narrow you can tell because it just doesn't quite fit into a PSA holder.
Does PSA have a minimum size requirement for certain cards? If so, then it may be a bad idea to send a card to them if it doesn't meet the minimum requirement.
glynparson
12-05-2015, 09:29 AM
they generally get kicked in the verification from what i have witnessed. plus looking at cards all day you can often tell when one is small even when having 4 factory cut sides. they were generally rejected For like said above swimming to much in the holder. This was also the case at sgc when i worked there though they did have a soft material ruler that was very rarely used. The minimum size is used more for perception than anything. they dont want all the complaints about small stuff because many just assume it is trimmed who don't understand sizes vary sometimes. heck i can remember in the 1980's having some serious size variation from my collection, particularly in 1987.
Sean1125
12-05-2015, 09:39 AM
they generally get kicked in the verification from what i have witnessed. plus looking at cards all day you can often tell when one is small even when having 4 factory cut sides. they were generally rejected For like said above swimming to much in the holder. This was also the case at sgc when i worked there though they did have a soft material ruler that was very rarely used. The minimum size is used more for perception than anything. they dont want all the complaints about small stuff because many just assume it is trimmed who don't understand sizes vary sometimes. heck i can remember in the 1980's having some serious size variation from my collection, particularly in 1987.
Both grading companies are currently using some microscope/light setup, that if the light shines on any side it is automatically kicked back. They have kept up with technology (somewhat) and use rulers as a secondary rather than a primary means of measurement.
Once a card is put into a holder the edges become much harder, or impossible to verify if they are trimmed or not. It is easier for both companies to simply kick back any card that is below the "standard" factory cut. This way there is no question as to a possibly trimmed card being put into the holder. To David - It's not about knowledge. It is relatively simple to tell if it is factory cut or trimmed, it is safer (and neither company charges, might I add) to kick back. The standard has been set at 2 1/2 by 3 1/2, so no one will grade anything smaller.
vintagetoppsguy
12-05-2015, 09:56 AM
To David - It's not about knowledge. It is relatively simple to tell if it is factory cut or trimmed, it is safer (and neither company charges, might I add) to kick back. The standard has been set at 2 1/2 by 3 1/2, so no one will grade anything smaller.
Thanks, for the reply, Sean, but what do you mean by safer to kick it back?
Safer how?
This way there is no question as to a possibly trimmed card being put into the holder. To David - It's not about knowledge. It is relatively simple to tell if it is factory cut or trimmed, it is safer (and neither company charges, might I add) to kick back. The standard has been set at 2 1/2 by 3 1/2, so no one will grade anything smaller.
First of all trimmed and altered cards get placed in holders all the time. Far more than any of us would care to think but with that said, both PSA and SGC will absolutely grade cards with factory cuts which measure smaller than the standard size. I know for a fact that both companies will allow for up to 1/16th of an inch to avoid having to reject the card for Min Size.
vintagetoppsguy
12-05-2015, 10:21 AM
FWIW, I have never seen SGC reject a card due to minimum size. When PSA does it, they give you back a flip containing the card's information that says MIN SIZE on the flip. What does SGC do?
David-They issue a flip with SML, I believe.
Greg
ls7plus
12-05-2015, 01:51 PM
That's just it, Sean. Minimum Size Requirement should not even be an option. If a card is short, there are only 1 of 2 possible reasons - either it is trimmed, or it was cut short from the factory. If it was cut short from the factory, but displays characteristics of a factory cut then it should be slabbed. PSA uses that Minimum Size crap as a crutch because they don't have the knowledge to tell if a cut is factory or not.
+1 there.
Best regards,
Larry
steve B
12-05-2015, 05:40 PM
FWIW, I have never seen SGC reject a card due to minimum size. When PSA does it, they give you back a flip containing the card's information that says MIN SIZE on the flip. What does SGC do?
I had one rejected for minimum size. Came back in the cardsaver with a flip showing some code like msz or maybe SML like Greg said, and a card with an explanation.
My miscut card they say what edges were unacceptable, and the trimmed one the flip says TRM and the card has written on the trimmed line "trimmed all edges" (Not sure what I was thinking when I sent that one in :o )
I think that if I hadn't opted out of the "slab as authentic" they'd have all gotten slabbed as "A" so at least for SGC not all A graded cards are equal.
I also believe that they don't want to slab a card with a grade that someone without the knowledge of what a proper edge looks like would consider trimmed. I'm sort of ok with that, but agree that a card is either factory or not and if it is it should get a grade.
I keep the rejection tags with the card. I misplaced the min size card a few years ago and haven't found it yet, but here's the miscut one.
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=5054
Steve B
irishdenny
12-05-2015, 06:40 PM
I recently sent 5 PSA Slabbed cards into SGC for Crossover.
I was very pleased wit the outcome, except fir one card.
Oddly enough, it was the one card in the lot that I hadn't given a thought to
as fir crossover or even the grade that it would receive.
You see... this one card was Originally in an SGC 40/3 Holder.
I only sent to PSA to see if they would bump the Grade!
Unfortunately they didn't bump it, they just put it in a PSA 3 Slab.
So upon return to SGC fir a crossover, I didn't give it a thought
as to them Re holdering into an SGC 40/3 Slab.
Much to my surprise... the card came back wit a note on the invoice stating that "the card didn't meet with the minimum size"...
I don't use a ruler...
I use a caliper!
The card measures 1 1/2 x 2 3/4...
And I Love SGC!!!