December Pick ups

[Jcfowler6]

New month picked up my first card of the month.

Pack fresh
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/c954360e7ad2a244afd76c57ef7f22c2.jpg


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[jason.1969]

Really like that Mazeroski. I feel like I've never seen it before. I know 1959s don't always get a lot of love, but I think your Mazeroski is a very nice example. Another couple of 1959s I like are Frank Robinson and Ernie Banks.

[jason.1969]

And again pushing the limits of our postwar focus, but I am really proud of this pickup. It is for a "Top 100" display that will focus about 75% on post-war players. A big thank you to a fellow Board Member who hooked me up with a very generous deal on such a nice card.

213524

[CW]

Always liked that set, and Simmons was one of the greats! You also never see DeLongs centered like that. Congrats!

BTW, was just checking out some of Simmons' stats... he wasn't a big power hitter, but his .334 lifetime BA over 20 years is quite impressive. He led the AL in '30 and '31 with averages of .381 and .390. In 1927, Al batted an amazing .392, but finished only 2nd in the AL behind Detroit's Harry Heilmann who batted .398!

[jb67]

Jon that is a sharp looking 59 Maz. Great image with the focus and color.

Jason that is a sweet looking Simmons. Congrats on landing a great all-time hitter.

Here is my first December arrival. Very pleased to snag a 72 Bench IA with pretty good centering.
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/JBrules/johnny-bench-collection-large/35216/1972-johnny-bench-ia-sgc-88

[jason.1969]

Wow, beautiful!!!

[Jcfowler6]

Nice cards guys. Like the DeLong Simmons and that Bench is fantastic.


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[Jcfowler6]

Just grabbed these to fill in some holes in my set.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/b9dab7d807bc3c8225e213a20be13fcf.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[VintageBucs]

Really nice eye appeal for a 4, so happy to add this

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af286/Daniel_Patrick/Scan%2012_zpsparpw9nl.jpeg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/Daniel_Patrick/media/Scan%2012_zpsparpw9nl.jpeg.html)

[WillBBC]

Really nice eye appeal for a 4, so happy to add this

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af286/Daniel_Patrick/Scan%2012_zpsparpw9nl.jpeg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/Daniel_Patrick/media/Scan%2012_zpsparpw9nl.jpeg.html)

Killer centering on that. I love the '59 set, the colors really pop when they're clean, great looking cards.

Finally nailed down a Koufax rookie!

http://i.imgur.com/zsDHOyS.jpg

[KCRfan1]

Jon that is a sharp looking 59 Maz. Great image with the focus and color.

Jason that is a sweet looking Simmons. Congrats on landing a great all-time hitter.

Here is my first December arrival. Very pleased to snag a 72 Bench IA with pretty good centering.
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/JBrules/johnny-bench-collection-large/35216/1972-johnny-bench-ia-sgc-88

Nice cards everyone!!!!! December is off to a great start! BTW, is that McCovey at the plate with Bench?

[mintacular]

Very happy with this, hoping psa gives it a 5.

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq66/nollpm/Clemente%20Yellow_zps30krwu28.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/nollpm/media/Clemente%20Yellow_zps30krwu28.jpg.html)

http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq66/nollpm/Yellow%20Ltr_zpslmhxxmur.jpg (http://s434.photobucket.com/user/nollpm/media/Yellow%20Ltr_zpslmhxxmur.jpg.html)

[jason.1969]

In my narrow view, a great baseball card should have a cool picture or two--photo or artistic, name/position/team on the front, and ideally even stats on the back. That's a bias I had for a really long time, and it pushed me away from a lot of the older sets.

When I finally decided it was time to own a DiMaggio earlier this year, the voice of the pocketbook out-screamed my biases, and I "settled" for the 1939 Play Ball--with no name, no team, and no stats. To my pleasant surprise, I ended up really, really liking the simplicity of the card, and of course Joe D's face is so familiar and distinct that one hardly needs to see a name.

Well, I can now add to the Joe D. his teammate and a key card for my Top 100 display in progress. And even with no name, team, or stats, I am thinking 1939 PB is THE coolest Dickey of them all.

73 down...27 to go!

213646

[jason.1969]

Very happy with this, hoping psa gives it a 5.


Patrick, good luck on the grade. Of course, from my perspective, the number that matters the most is the number 21. Regardless of technical grade, you've got a BEAUTIFUL 4th year card of one of the game's most legendary and beloved players. Just remarkable!

[jb67]

In my narrow view, a great baseball card should have a cool picture or two--photo or artistic, name/position/team on the front, and ideally even stats on the back. That's a bias I had for a really long time, and it pushed me away from a lot of the older sets.

When I finally decided it was time to own a DiMaggio earlier this year, the voice of the pocketbook out-screamed my biases, and I "settled" for the 1939 Play Ball--with no name, no team, and no stats. To my pleasant surprise, I ended up really, really liking the simplicity of the card, and of course Joe D's face is so familiar and distinct that one hardly needs to see a name.

Well, I can now add to the Joe D. his teammate and a key card for my Top 100 display in progress. And even with no name, team, or stats, I am thinking 1939 PB is THE coolest Dickey of them all.

73 down...27 to go!

213646

Jason, that Dickey is another beauty. You are on real hot streak picking up some outstanding pre-war cards that look great. Keep it going.

[jchcollins]

New month picked up my first card of the month.

Pack fresh
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/01/c954360e7ad2a244afd76c57ef7f22c2.jpg

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

And still a very nice '59 despite the centering, I might add. Pack fresh indeed. Nice card!

[the 'stache]

Patrick, that '58 Clemente is probably my favorite modern card. Really nice example you have there. Good luck with the grading!

[the 'stache]

Always liked that set, and Simmons was one of the greats! You also never see DeLongs centered like that. Congrats!

BTW, was just checking out some of Simmons' stats... he wasn't a big power hitter, but his .334 lifetime BA over 20 years is quite impressive. He led the AL in '30 and '31 with averages of .381 and .390. In 1927, Al batted an amazing .392, but finished only 2nd in the AL behind Detroit's Harry Heilmann who batted .398!

Simmons was greatness. At age 30, he was giving Ty Cobb a run for his money as the all-time batting leader; Cobb ended at .366, and Simmons had a .363 AVG through his first eight seasons. And while he wasn't Jimmie Foxx, he did hit over 300 home runs in his career.

It's hard to believe he never won an MVP. Some of the seasons he had were just ridiculous. His second season, he hit .387, scoring 122 runs, with 253 hits, 43 doubles, 12 triples, 24 home runs, 129 RBI, and he was MVP runner up. That was his age 23 season! And what really sucked for him? His best two seasons were in 1929 and 1930. But because of the economy, there were no MVP Awards handed out those seasons.

Think he might have won one at least?

In 1929, Al Simmons hit .365, scored 114 runs, had 212 hits, 41 doubles, 9 triples, 34 home runs, 157 RBI, and a 1.040 OPS.

In 1930, Simmons hit .381, scored an incredible 152 runs, had 211 hits, 41 doubles, 16 triples, 36 home runs, 165 RBI, and an 1.130 OPS.

The guy had four seasons hitting over .380. Just a sensational offensive force. The best ever born in my hometown of Milwaukee, WI.

[Hot Springs Bathers]

Bill- Stan Musial gave Simmons a great deal of credit for teaching him how to hit. The two spent a lot of time together in the Spring here in Hot Springs. Two years ago we erected plaques for each of them side by side on our Historic Baseball Trail. The two plaques went up in front of St. Mary's Catholic Church where they started each day with early mass.

[VintageBucs]

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af286/Daniel_Patrick/Scan%2017_zpspmn4krfu.jpeg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/Daniel_Patrick/media/Scan%2017_zpspmn4krfu.jpeg.html)

[jason.1969]

Simmons was greatness...

Bill, you are like the unofficial baseball historian and stat guy of N54. I feel like I just read a really nice Nellie Fox piece from you as well. And how could I ever forget that one you did on how overrated Chuck Klein was, just after I posted my pickup of his 1940 Playball. (And yes, I'm teasing you on that last one!)

One thing I'd love your take on is Dave Concepcion being the perennial NL AS at shortstop for pretty much my entire childhood. Do you think he was in fact the best, or merely benefitting from being part of the Big Red Machine? And who would be your top 3 NL shortstops post-Banks and pre-Ozzie?

Thanks!

[Shoebox]

I just acquired my first Mantle card from his playing career. This was also the last card I needed to complete my 58 All-Star subset.

http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj594/Drinkmorebeer/LY108_1162_lg-1-1_zpszv4xuoax.jpg (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/Drinkmorebeer/media/LY108_1162_lg-1-1_zpszv4xuoax.jpg.html)

[jason.1969]

Congratulations!! The 1958 AS subset, which I think was the very first, is my absolute favorite! Insane player selection, great design, and what I'll jokingly call Musial's rookie card!

And way to join the Mantle club also!

[Shoebox]

Thank you Jason. You are correct that 58 was the first year Topps introduced the AS subset. It was a thread on this board that inspired me to start putting it together. I have a few that I couldn't locate in SGC holders that I picked up raw and will submit so decided to spring for a raw version of the Mantle to finish it out. I am extremely unfocused in my purchasing so it feels good to actually complete a project for once!

[the 'stache]

Bill- Stan Musial gave Simmons a great deal of credit for teaching him how to hit. The two spent a lot of time together in the Spring here in Hot Springs. Two years ago we erected plaques for each of them side by side on our Historic Baseball Trail. The two plaques went up in front of St. Mary's Catholic Church where they started each day with early mass.

Mike, that's really cool. I was unaware of the connection between Simmons and Stan The Man. Stories like that really enhance my love for the game's history. Thank you for sharing. Should you happen to get a snapshot of the plaques, I'd like to see them.

Being a lover of the game has been rough the last few decades with the steroid scandals. However, I think we're starting to see the younger generation of players take control now. The public backlash seems to have made a real impression on the "kids" playing today, and I think these guys are playing the game clean. Mike Trout is one guy I just love watching. He's the all American kid, and the early comparisons to Mickey Mantle look better and better with each passing year. He plays the game right, and he has an appreciation for those that played the game before him. I love hearing that. Though I'm a Brewers fan first, and a Pirates fan second, I'll cheer for that young man any time I see him play. If he's become the face of baseball, that's great for the game. He couldn't have come along at a better time.

Bill, you are like the unofficial baseball historian and stat guy of N54. I feel like I just read a really nice Nellie Fox piece from you as well. And how could I ever forget that one you did on how overrated Chuck Klein was, just after I posted my pickup of his 1940 Playball. (And yes, I'm teasing you on that last one!)

One thing I'd love your take on is Dave Concepcion being the perennial NL AS at shortstop for pretty much my entire childhood. Do you think he was in fact the best, or merely benefitting from being part of the Big Red Machine? And who would be your top 3 NL shortstops post-Banks and pre-Ozzie?

Thanks!

Thank you, Jason. I'm the resident stat nerd, I think. :p

I should clarify my opinion on Chuck Klein, because I did a rather poor job doing so in the discussion you referred to.

Chuck Klein was a sensational player. Is he deserving of inclusion in the Hall of Fame? Yes, I think so. Obviously, Klein's statistics were enhanced by playing his home games at the Baker Bowl (and he was certainly not alone in this regard. Look at Lefty O'Doul's 1929 season. He hit .398 for the season, overall. His .344 mark on the road was still outstanding, but hitting .453 at home won him the batting title). But Klein showed early on in his career that he was a great player regardless of where he was taking his cuts.

1929, Klein's first full season in the Bigs. He's 24 years old, and hits .356 for the season with 43 HR and 145 RBIs. He was 11th in the MVP. Klein was great both at home and on the road that season. He hit .391 with 25 HR and 78 RBI at home. Away from the Baker Bowl, Klein hit .321 with 18 HR and 67 RBI. If you project his road stats over the course of a whole season, he'd have still been an MVP candidate hitting .321 with 36 HR and 134 RBI.

In his second season of 1930, we start seeing some deviation in his splits. For the season, Chuck Klein hit .386 with 40 HR and 170 RBI. He scored 158 runs, had 250 hits, 59 doubles, and 8 triples. 107 extra base hits and 445 total bases is an MVP season in any era. But proportionally, he did more damage at home. He hit a whopping .439 with 26 HR and 109 RBI while in Philly. On the road, he hit .332 with 27 doubles, 5 triples, 14 HR and 61 RBI. Again, if you take his road stats, and project them over a full season, hitting .332 with 54 doubles, 10 triples, 28 HR and 122 RBI is still an MVP-caliber season. 92 extra base hits would represent elite production in Ted Williams' day, or in Willie Mays' day. Two and a half years into his career, Klein is a Hall of Famer in the making, and his splits, while slightly favoring his play at home, are still rock solid across the board.

The problem I have when looking at Klein's statistics is the more he got into his career, the better he seemed to do at home, while his performance on the road slipped. Was this Klein's suddenly forgetting how to hit a baseball away from the Baker Bowl. I think not. Rather, I hypothesize that when a great hitter plays a majority of their games in one place, they start to develop tendencies that will give them the greatest chance of success in the most games. I haven't played organized baseball since I was 16 years old, but I can imagine that if you establish habits to one extreme (like dead pull hitting at home), those habits would be awfully difficult to break, or compensate for, when playing elsewhere. This is pure speculation on my part, but common sense dictates that there is at least some likelihood that this happened. He was still an extra base hit machine: between 1931 and 1933, he amassed 128 doubles, 32 triples, and 97 round trippers.

In 1932, Klein hit .348 with 37 HR and 137 RBI. He hit .423 with 29 HR and 97 RBI at home, and .266 with 9 HR and 40 RBI on the road. 1932 is the season he won the MVP, and I don't think he should have won the Award. Why? Because of his split differential. He hit 157 points higher at home than he did on the road. He still played ok when taking the train (60 runs scored, 24 doubles, and 8 triples, giving him a line of .266 with 120 runs scored, 48 doubles, 16 triples, 18 HR and 80 RBI when projected over a full season-still an All Star, but not an MVP candidate). And, in 1933, his split deviation was even more dramatic. He was the MVP runner up, hitting .368 (leading the NL), with 28 HR and 120 RBI. But look at this: he hit .467 at home (133 hits in 285 at bats) at home with a 1.305 OPS, and .280 with a .774 OPS on the road. That's a 187 point difference. Again, he wasn't a bad player on the road, as hitting .280 in 1933, or in any era, would be above average. But it wasn't typical for Klein. The fall off at that age is dramatic. His road numbers: .280, 39 runs, 16 doubles, 5 triples, 8 home runs, 39 RBI aren't very good. Taken over a whole season, that's .280 AVG, 78 runs scored, 32 doubles, 10 triples, 16 HR and 78 RBI. Atypical for a man in his late twenties, especially as the reigning league MVP. Now, one thing must be said when simply extending road numbers out for any season in this fashion. If we eliminate the 314 plate appearances Klein had at the Baker Bowl in 1933, he'd have played home games somewhere else, right? And, regardless of where those home games would have been played, he'd have tailored his play to best suit that home park. We saw him do it early in his career. He'd have done it again. If he played 78 games that year at Wrigley Field, Sportsman's Park, or Ebbets Field, he'd have become more comfortable playing there as the season progressed, meaning those numbers I just approximated would have improved.

In 1934, Klein was shipped off to the Cubs, and that was the last time he was an All Star at any point in his career. He did play at Wrigley. He hit .301 with 20 HR and 80 RBI for the season--clearly not up to his usual standards, but still very good. His Hall of Fame candidacy was built, essentially, off of his 1929 to 1933 run. Five seasons. But what a five seasons. The numbers he put up in that span may never be matched again: a 162 game average of 141 runs scored, 239 hits, 50 doubles, 10 triples, 39 HR, 148 RBI, and a 1.050 OPS. Klein ended with a career .320 AVG in large part because he fell off a cliff in 1938 at age 33. Between 1938 an 1944, covering a span of 1,386 plate appearances, Klein was a .236 hitter. His OPS over that time frame was only .670. But in his first ten seasons, he was a .340 hitter.

The point I want to make from all this is that Chuck Klein was a great player, and if I diminished his abilities in my earlier post, I really didn't communicate what I was trying to say very well. No matter what field he played his home games in, he was still hitting Major League pitching well enough to drive the ball out of the park. It would be unrealistic to think that pitchers of that era were unaware of the disproportionate ballpark dimensions they faced when playing in Philadelphia. They knew that left handed power hitters would be murder against them when playing in the Baker Bowl. Yet outside of Klein and O'Doul, nobody else in Philly was really destroying the ball. If it was so easy, why weren't more hitters doing the same thing? Could it be that Klein was just a great player whose great play further benefited from the park he played in? Another thing to consider when looking at Klein's career: the Phillies were terrible during Klein's magical run. Look at their records:

1928, 43-109
1929, 71-82
1930, 52-102
1931, 66-88
1932, 78-76
1933, 60-92

370 wins, 549 losses. The Phillies had a .403 winning percentage when Klein was at his very best. So, while he did see a statistical bump from his home ballpark, we also need to remember that there wasn't a hell of a lot of talent around him. In 1930, he drove in 170 runs. He hit 40 home runs, so he drove in his teammates 130 times. Outside of O'Doul, who else did the Phillies have? Don Hurst had some real nice seasons, but nobody would mistake the Phillies of the early 1930s for Murders Row. Chuck Klein, however, was a great player who realized what he needed to do to thrive as an offensive force. And he managed to continue hitting despite losing consistently.

Klein is a deserving Hall of Famer. In future discussions, I would only advise that analysis of his numbers be tempered somewhat with the knowledge of where he played a large portion of his game. But that should not diminish his greatness.

[the 'stache]

Now, getting to your question of shortstops in the National League during Dave Concepcion's run of All Star selections.

Dave made the All Star team nine times in a ten year period between 1973 and 1982. Any statistics I post will be obtained within this time frame.

First, a look at the men who were voted to the N.L. All Star squad at shortstop during this ten year run (starters listed first). Typically, two or three shortstops were selected each year, so Concepcion, even when he did get a nod, did not go alone.

1973: Chris Speirer, Concepcion, Bill Russell
1974: Larry Bowa, Don Kessinger, Speirer
1975: Concepcion, Bowa
1976: Concepcion, Bowa, Russell
1977: Concepcion, Gary Templeton
1978: Bowa, Concepcion
1979: Bowa, Concepcion, Craig Reynolds, Templeton
1980: Russell, Concepcion
1981: Concepcion, Ozzie Smith
1982: Concepcion, Smith

If I assign 2 points for each starting nod, and 1 point for every reserve selection, the points break down this way:

Concepcion 14
Bowa 8
Russell 4
Speirer 3
Templeton 2
Smith 2
Kessinger 1
Reynolds 1

Concepcion was by far the most selected shortstop, and started in five of ten seasons. That, however, does not directly correlate to worthiness. Let's look at total WAR by shortstop, as well as offensive WAR and defensive WAR. I'll include also the years the individual shortstops played.

Concepcion, 1973-1982. 37.0 WAR, 30.7 oWAR, 14.8 dWAR
Bill Russell, 1973 to 1982. 22.5 WAR, 15.3 oWAR, 15.6 dWAR
Gary Templeton, 1976 to 1982. 21.3 WAR, 18.4 oWAR, 7.9 dWAR
Larry Bowa, 1973-1982. 16.3 WAR, 14.5 oWAR, 10.5 dWAR
Ozzie Smith 1978-1982. 15.9 WAR, 8.0 oWAR, 12.3 dWAR
Chris Speirer 1973-1982. 15.7 WAR, 14.2 oWAR, 9.8 dWAR

By WAR, Dave Concepcion is the clear front runner at the position. A 5.0 WAR is considered All Star level, and Concepcion averaged a 4.6 WAR per 650 plate appearances. So, he was, on average, playing at a near All Star level each season for a decade.

What about the others? How did they perform by WAR on a weighted basis?

Gary Templeton, 4.2 WAR per 650 PA.
Ozzie Smith, 3.8 WAR per 650 PA.
Bill Russell, 3.1 WAR per 650 PA.
Chris Speirer, 2.4 WAR per 650 PA.
Larry Bowa, 2.3 WAR per 650 PA.

Actual statistics per 162 games played:

Concepcion, .282 AVG, 75 R, 174 H, 34 2B, 4 3B, 10 HR, 76 RBI, 25 SB, 8 CS, .723 OPS
Templeton, .296 AVG, 99 R, 200 H, 29 2B, 15 3B, 6 HR, 66 RBI, 32 SB, 19 CS, .725 OPS
Smith, .234 AVG, 73 R, 143 H, 20 2B, 5 3B, 1 HR, 39 RBI, 39 SB, 12 CS, .588 OPS
Russell, .268 AVG, 64 R, 160 H, 25 2B, 4 3B, 4 HR, 54 RBI, 13 SB, 6 SB, .652 OPS
Speirer, .246 AVG, 56 R, 135 H, 24 2B, 5 3B, 8 HR, 55 RBI, 3 SB, 4 CS, .672 OPS
Bowa, .267 AVG, 77 R, 169 H, 20 2B, 8 3B, 2 HR, 42 RBI, 26 SB, 8 CS, .633 OPS

I think it's clear that Dave Concepcion was the best shortstop in the National League during this ten year period. He offered the best combination of offense and defense. Who was second best? I'd say Gary Templeton, hands down. If we omit his 1982 season at the plate, from 1976 to 1981, he was a .305 hitter, putting up 101 runs and 207 hits, along with 16 triples and 32 home runs per 162 games played. That's pretty sensational production from the position. And he was no slouch with the glove, either, averaging 1.9 dWAR per 650 PA. He didn't win a Gold Glove, but put up some pretty strong numbers. He had a 1.7 dWAR in 1978 and 1980, a 1.6 in 1981, and a 1.5 in 1982. His best season with the glove was in 1987, when he put up a 2.3 dWAR. For comparison purposes, Ozzie Smith typically put up between 2.5 and 3.5 dWAR each season.

After Templeton, it's a bit of a crap shoot. Ozzie Smith averaged a 3.1 dWAR per 650 PA's during this period, but he was terrible offensively with that .588 OPS. Interestingly, between 1978 and 1982, Ozzie Smith had as many stolen bases (177) as he did RBIs.

I would rank the shortstops in this era (pre Ozzie Smith):
Dave Concepcion
Gary Templeton
Bill Russell
Larry Bowa

And, to answer the question originally postulated, no, I don't think Dave Concepcion received his numerous All Star nominations simply because he was a member of the Big Red Machine. He was the class of his position in the National League. If I needed a guy to man the shortstop position between 1973 and 1979, Dave Concepcion was the best there was in the N.L., though I may have taken Templeton in 1977. In 1980, Templeton was the best. In 1981, Concepcion was again the best, and in 1982, Ozzie Smith came into his own with a 5.0 WAR, in large part due to his 3.4 dWAR. He still wasn't hitting, but that would soon change, as Smith would start hitting in the .270s and better. By 1989, he was putting up an MVP level WAR of 7.3, with a spectacular 4.7 dWAR.

Of course, in the American League, Robin Yount, Alan Trammell and Cal Ripken Jr were about to change what was possible with the position, as they combined the offensive capabilities of Ernie Banks with great defense.

[Samsdaddy]

I just acquired my first Mantle card from his playing career. This was also the last card I needed to complete my 58 All-Star subset.

http://i1269.photobucket.com/albums/jj594/Drinkmorebeer/LY108_1162_lg-1-1_zpszv4xuoax.jpg (http://s1269.photobucket.com/user/Drinkmorebeer/media/LY108_1162_lg-1-1_zpszv4xuoax.jpg.html)


Jason and Dustin, I am in agreement that the 1958 Topps All Star Sub Set is the best. I have the complete sub set as well and though there were times I sold many of my cards that is one group I never parted with and am so glad, especially now being back into collecting.

What started me in on it was seeing Stan Musial's card on a 1982 episode Hart to Hart. Jonathon Hart (Robert Wagner) was flipping cards and that was one card shown and right away I was drawn to the colors and design.

Congrats on the pick up Dustin!

[Shoebox]

Congrats on the pick up Dustin!

Thank you Erik!

[Samsdaddy]

Thank you Erik!

Also meant to say congrats on completing the 1958 All Star sub set.

In my small collection, I don't think there is anything I am more fond of than the 58 All Star cards.

[jchcollins]

Back when I was about 15, this guy was at the peak of his fame - in his 40's, still throwing in the 90's, and of course still spinning no-hitters with the Texas Rangers. I think it's fair to say that besides Mickey Mantle, Nolan Ryan had become about the most popular figure in the hobby as well by the early 1990's. Back then this card went for around $200, even in mid-grade shape. I remember seeing it for the first time on the old ESPN show with Johnny Bench, "The Great American Baseball Quiz"...and instantly wanting it. Was thrilled to pickup this copy for less than 20 bucks. My how times have changed! Bonus - What I thought was a small nick in the lower lefthand corner was actually just a fleck off of the black insert in the SGC case (easily removed by cracking the card out of the SGC case...:)) and not a problem at all. Very nice card for the money, and especially in comparison to what I have paid for one in the past. A solid VG-EX, just honest mild corner wear, a couple of surface dents that are not noticeable, and some light / faded printing on the back. When looking for this card again online, I was surprised at how damn many of them (virtually 90% that I looked at) are diamond cut, even if slightly. This one is not. Also merits being said that this is one of the very few cards with an airbrushed hat that I actually think is cool. Topps got it close to right for once, though you can clearly still see Nolan's pinstriped Mets home jersey that doesn't match the cap. Interesting to me also, that by the time Nolan got out to Anaheim in 1972, the Angels had done away with the "small a halo" logo, and replaced it with the more recognizable "large A halo" logo. Although if you search hard enough, I do believe that pictures exist of Nolan wearing the old cap in what must have been spring training in 1972.

[gemmint77]

Very Nice Koufax RC.

[KingFisk]

Finally snared one of these....my HOF rookie card collection nears completion....still some big tickets to snare but really happy to cross this one off, especially without too much of the print weirdness you often see.

[jason.1969]

Finally snared one of these....my HOF rookie card collection nears completion....still some big tickets to snare but really happy to cross this one off, especially without too much of the print weirdness you often see.
Okay, that's a decent enough card, but I'm waiting on you to show us the elusive Pendleton RC.

[KingFisk]

Okay, that's a decent enough card, but I'm waiting on you to show us the elusive Pendleton RC.

Give me time, my friend. I am working on it. :)

[jason.1969]

Not to out anyone else's auction, but there a beautiful KSA [sic] 9 on eBay for about $5.

[KingFisk]

Not to out anyone else's auction, but there a beautiful KSA [sic] 9 on eBay for about $5.

Dude, you totally could've PM'd me that!!! I can only imagine what it's at now that the competition is aware. KSA is gold, brother!!! ;)

(what's KSA stand for??)

[mintacular]

One of my fav Clemente's, enjoy.

http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/nollpm/roberto-clemente/35358/1959-topps

[VintageBucs]

http://i1016.photobucket.com/albums/af286/Daniel_Patrick/IMG_20151205_155459579_zps8qls7pkr.jpg (http://s1016.photobucket.com/user/Daniel_Patrick/media/IMG_20151205_155459579_zps8qls7pkr.jpg.html)

[Bestdj777]

I haven't posted in a while, but here are a few of my favorite pickups from November and December:

1. Some well loved 60s and 70s card. I don't know why, but I love flipping through stacks like this:

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p669/debonochris/IMG_0928_zpssdllqexc.jpg

2. Matchbooks from some of Mantle's establishments, including a rarer one from his bowling alley:

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p669/debonochris/IMG_0927_zpsqaoj9zjo.jpg?t=1449288945

3. No clue what this. It is slightly thicker than normal card stock and is hand cut, so I am assuming it came from a box or something:

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p669/debonochris/IMG_0925_zpsjjsaahww.jpg

4. Finally, a Ruth signed ball. It's a pretty faint signature, but since watching The Sandlot I've always wanted to add one to my collection (sorry it's a little off topic):

http://i1345.photobucket.com/albums/p669/debonochris/Ball1_zpsvzngxr1f.jpg

[gemmint77]

Part of my basic Mantle set.

[gemmint77]

Also working on a PSA 7 Clemente Run. :)

[pawpawdiv9]

I have not bought anything since JUNE, and eager to show off my 2 new additions:

This technically was done last week, and a HUGE thanks to board member Kmas55 for a great transaction. Was wonderful to negotiate a deal to work for both of us.
Here it is, the modern day white whale:

http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww161/kmas5/ripken/img071_zpsjb5eehwl.jpg
http://i716.photobucket.com/albums/ww161/kmas5/ripken/img075_zps29ifqbqe.jpg


And this new COBB bat off to go with my red & green.
Will be looking for a nice 'bat on' to complete my 4 Cobb run here.

http://catalog.scpauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/33980a_lg.jpeg
http://catalog.scpauctions.com/ItemImages/000033/33980b_lg.jpeg

[Jdoggs]

Cool Cobb.

[Bestdj777]

Great stuff Chris! That Cobb is one of my favorites.

[jb67]

Chris, those are some sweet additions to the collection. Nothing like landing a white whale. Congrats.

[KingFisk]

Some fine pickups all around to start the month!

[KCRfan1]

Also working on a PSA 7 Clemente Run. :)

Nice cards James!!!! Do you have that '55 Clemente in a 7 yet? If so, let's have a look!

[pokerplyr80]

Nice card Chris. I had talked to Chris as he was thinking about picking that one up and decided to get one for myself. Along with the less rare blue version. I thought the picture would be better but have been having computer issues.

[gemmint77]

Nice cards James!!!! Do you have that '55 Clemente in a 7 yet? If so, let's have a look!

Will be a while before I can add that one. Will keep updating as I add new PSA 7's to the collection. Thanks

[pawpawdiv9]

Nice card Chris. I had talked to Chris as he was thinking about picking that one up and decided to get one for myself. Along with the less rare blue version. I thought the picture would be better but have been having computer issues.


Thanks guys, This orange cal is something else. From what i understand theres only 16 graded by PSA (1=8, 1=7, 4=6, 3=5, 2=4, 3=3, 1=2, 1=1) so i did get the lowest graded, most affordable one.
from a July,2,2013 source, there was only 21 TOTAL (14 psa, 4 sgc, 3 bgs)

BTW Jesse: I saw those, and those were a STEAL!!!
Here is a better pic image for ya bro:
http://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/MpQAAOSw7FRWU~BW/s-l1600.jpg

[savedfrommyspokes]

Finally, after months of searching, I found a copy of this HOFer's card with the Band-Aid on the forehead

[bnorth]

Finally, after months of searching, I found a copy of this HOFer's card with the Band-Aid on the forehead

Awesome, Glad you finally got one!

[jason.1969]

Finally, after months of searching, I found a copy of this HOFer's card with the Band-Aid on the forehead
I never knew about this. Is there a story to it?

[savedfrommyspokes]

I never knew about this. Is there a story to it?

Several other variation collectors pointed this card out in another thread.....my guess is sometime during the early print runs of these 73s, someone at Topps noticed the BandAid on Al's head. Before more print runs were completed, one of the air brushing guru's at Topps jumped all over the opportunity to artfully "heal" Al's forehead. Not exactly sure how limited this card is, however, just on ebay alone, I looked several times a day for 3+ months for a copy to show up, so my guess is that Topps caught this early on. Another similar variation is the 66 Don Landrum button/no button card.

Thank you Ben.....

[jb67]

savedfrommyspokes, Congrats on landing that Kaline card. I remember reading the thread that someone had started. For sure not an easy one to find.

Here is my latest addition to my Johnny Bench collection. Very happy to find one that is nicely centered both front and back.
http://www.collectorfocus.com/images/show/JBrules/1968-topps-baseball-stars/35586/1968-johnny-bench-psa-8.5-2-small

[pokerplyr80]

Thanks Chris that is a better picture. Guess I should have just used the one from ebay. The Orange Cal has a total pop of 19 now, 16 unqualified whole grades, a 3.5, and a qualified 5 and 6. I don't know about SGC or BVG but 25-30 total graded sounds about right. Pretty rare either way. Especially for a modern card. There aren't many cards from the 60s or 70s that are worth anything in a 1 or a 3, let alone 1980.

[RCMcKenzie]

That 73 Kaline is awesome...now I want one....here's a 56 Berra I got today...

[gemmint77]

My very first Cobb. Enjoying this card a lot!!

[pawpawdiv9]

@Gemmint: Nice Cobb you got there! Any plans on a greenie? or bat version
I know its pre-war, but man you goota love it. I noticed in my slections, i did not like the peidmont backs, i just dont know why.

[sbfinley]

Received these Sadaharu OH and Shigeo Nagashima Japanese HOF RC's to complete my 1959 Menko Doyusha Team Back Set courtesy of Rob Fitts.


http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/sbfinley/1957MenkoOH-RC.jpg

[jason.1969]

Loving the month so far. Some stuff rarely seen in these pages between the Japanese cards, the Cobb, the three Ripkens, etc.

[Peter_Spaeth]

[[

[jason.1969]

[[
The centering is terrific, but the real standout to me is how rich the red is. Peter, you post nothing but gorgeous cards.

[begsu1013]

been concentrating on the signed rc cards lately, so a lil slow on regular pick ups, but thrilled to own her...

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/26029/31610714/66aaron9%20(2).jpg

[itjclarke]

Received these Sadaharu OH and Shigeo Nagashima Japanese HOF RC's to complete my 1959 Menko Doyusha Team Back Set courtesy of Rob Fitts.


http://i537.photobucket.com/albums/ff339/sbfinley/1957MenkoOH-RC.jpg

Sweet pick ups! Those are such nice looking cards, and Rob Fitts is great to deal with. Pretty sure I got my Menko Doyusha Oh from him. Picked these ones up last month, the Oh coming from him as well.

[Samsdaddy]

[[

Nice Frank Robinson. Talk about a guy who is under appreciated.

[jb67]

Nice Frank Robinson. Talk about a guy who is under appreciated.

+1

[begsu1013]

love the oh cards! and agreed on the robinson. brooksie as well!

[gemmint77]

@Gemmint: Nice Cobb you got there! Any plans on a greenie? or bat version
I know its pre-war, but man you goota love it. I noticed in my slections, i did not like the peidmont backs, i just dont know why.

@pawpawdiv9 I would love to add a Green Cobb to the collection!! Wouldn't we all?? But that will have to wait. I am slowly working on the T206 set, basic Mantle run & PSA 7 Clemente collection. Thanks for the comments.

[DBesse27]

http://i1199.photobucket.com/albums/aa463/dbesse27/59F%20Williams/Ted%2033%20PSA.jpg

[Jdoggs]

[[

Nice Robinson.

[MikeGarcia]

http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/2042957/view/1960POSTMANTLE_NEW.JPG


...affordable only because of the condition ; got tired of waiting for a decent one .

..

[Peter_Spaeth]

..

[almostdone]

..

Very nice Musial Peter. Congratulations.
Drew

[Bestdj777]

Great pickup Mike. One of my favorite Mantle items.

[jason.1969]

Really cool Mantle...what is it? And great Musial! I'll bring the thread back down to Earth now with this one...http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/15/bbc1cca6aac1cca4692a47e2ae07f222.jpg

[Samsdaddy]

Nice Yaz Jason.

I have always liked the All Star cards and the 69's are no exception. The All Star cards as well as the All Star rookies are always neat sub sets to collect in my opinion.

[jason.1969]

Nice Yaz Jason.

I have always liked the All Star cards and the 69's are no exception. The All Star cards as well as the All Star rookies are always neat sub sets to collect in my opinion.
Agreed. I suspect my vote would match that of many others that for all around look plus player selection, 1958 Topps can't be beat--Mantle, Musial, Aaron, Mays, Williams,... For me, next is 1961 followed by its 1970 clone. The 1970 AS card has a cool design concept but some of the action b/w shots are sketchy (like this Yaz), and I begrudge it for omitting Aaron.

[bobc88]

The '57 Reese is one of my favorites. Hard to find one with much better centering.

214999

[begsu1013]

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/26029/10595311/77jacksonTEST.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

Bob, how many of those proofs are known to exist?

[begsu1013]

nice catch, peter!

not exactly sure. 2 others that i know of for sure...

1 was actually auctioned off by topps vault in '04, i believe.

[ALR-bishop]

very impressive

[dclarkraiders]

Glad to add this one to my collection.

[Cliff Bowman]

Bob, how many of those proofs are known to exist?

According to Keith Olbermann's blog site "Baseball Nerd" there are at least eight known copies of the 1977 Topps Reggie Jackson proof card. There are only one known copy each of the 1977 Grote and 1977 Thompson proof cards.

[begsu1013]

very cool and thanks for the additional info, cliff!

i believe olberman has the one from toppsvault, if i remember correctly?

but if i had to guess, i'd say there are quite a few more out there than that.

maybe 50 or less total.

never know if some print tech stashed away a hoard... ; )

[Bliggity]

http://i1383.photobucket.com/albums/ah316/dmblau/Mobile%20Uploads/20151212_155631-1-1_zps0woflp7l.jpg

Now at 80/160 for the set.

[Jcfowler6]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/17/6eadb2e46846fe504b1fe8b650c5f9df.jpg

Pretty clean addition to my set run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ALR-bishop]

I think before he retired Bob Lemke told me he had a framed uncut 1977 proof sheet in his office that had all of the 77 Proofs he had check listed in SCD on it. I think that sheet may have been auctioned off by SCD after he retired. I will ask him if he can chime in on what he knows about those proofs

[begsu1013]

please do! i'd love to know if any of them have a printed back to them.

from what I have gathered only blank backs exist.

edit: also dimension sizes. i would assume that they are all originally cut from sheets and dims would vary...

but this one and another seem to be just a bit skinnier than the reg sized cards.

of course if those other cards that were mentioned are even rarer, that might explain why this one is oc on the left?

who knows?!?!

gonna try to get him to sign it eventually and then send it off to sgc. it's a shame psa wont touch proofs.

[Bob Lemke]

The half-sheet (66) we had with the '77 proofs was, indeed, blank-back. I don't know of any '77 proofs with printed backs.

As for the number of Jackson/Orioles proofs extant, I tend to agree with KO, probably fewer than 10.

The half-sheet we had was auctioned after I left the company; I don't recall the details as to selling.

[ALR-bishop]

Even more legendary and scarce are the 3 1960 Proofs of Cimiloi, Hadley and Thronberry with different teams, but as I recall, Bob, the ones you have seen had finished backs, making them more like variations

[JollyElm]

Jumped all over this Kaline with the bandage on his forehead variation. I have to imagine there are very, very few out there graded this high. Love it!!!

215130

Soon, I will add my pal Al to my ongoing 'errors and variations for trade' thread in the B/S/T.

[Mark70Z]

Didn't thetoppsvault auction one at one of the National events w/Reggie included? Think it was the same auction that had the N. Ryan rookie transparency, but I may be mistaken.

[jthorst75]

Jumped all over this Kaline with the bandage on his forehead variation. I have to imagine there are very, very few out there graded this high. Love it!!!

215130

Soon, I will add my pal Al to my ongoing 'errors and variations for trade' thread in the B/S/T.

Thanks, I lost out by a dollar on that one. :eek: I was hoping no one else caught the bandage considering that you couldn't zoom over the photo.

[jb67]

Congrats. Major score with Kaline PSA 8.

Jumped all over this Kaline with the bandage on his forehead variation. I have to imagine there are very, very few out there graded this high. Love it!!!

215130

Soon, I will add my pal Al to my ongoing 'errors and variations for trade' thread in the B/S/T.

[jason.1969]

Managed to have no cards of Luis Aparicio...till now.

215144

This brings up a trivia question I definitely don't know the answer to: Aparicio and Nellie Fox made up a HOF middle infield for the Chisox from 1956-1962...ballpark 1000 games. What HOF middle infield played the most games together? A few pairings that come to mind are Tinker/Evers, Yount/Molitor, and Reese/Robinson. Definitely wouldn't be surprised if none of these were the answer though.

[jb67]

Managed to have no cards of Luis Aparicio...till now.

215144

This brings up a trivia question I definitely don't know the answer to: Aparicio and Nellie Fox made up a HOF middle infield for the Chisox from 1956-1962...ballpark 1000 games. What HOF middle infield played the most games together? A few pairings that come to mind are Tinker/Evers, Yount/Molitor, and Reese/Robinson. Definitely wouldn't be surprised if none of these were the answer though.

Trammell and Whitaker maybe?
http://www.thebaseballpage.com/community/articles/it-was-match-made-baseball-heaven

[jason.1969]

Great answer but missing the HOF piece. Still, I'd probably take this pair over Fox/Aparicio.

[jb67]

Great answer but missing the HOF piece. Still, I'd probably take this pair over Fox/Aparicio.

Good point Jason. Being a Tigers fan I some how conveniently overlooked that fact.

[jason.1969]

A mark near the top took this card all the way down to $15.
215228

[jason.1969]

And thanks to a fellow N54 member, two more for my Top 100 collection.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/19/bafe11baa73dd17fa37704fbdcc018f0.jpg

[Jason Carota]

The start of a new player collection:


http://www.ellisburkscollector.com/img/hodges/1953_bowman_color_92.jpg

[jchcollins]

Say Hey!! Always loved the '55 Bowmans. But how many people really had "color" TV's back then? :)

[ALR-bishop]

Bowman in a last ditch effort tried to tie it's product to new technology. Color TV sets began selling in 1954. But the marketing ploy was ahead of it's time. Very few had color TVs in 1955. I think that even by 1957 the numbers were still below 200,000

[Peter_Spaeth]

it's a shame psa wont touch proofs.

I've seen 67 Topps Maris Yankees proofs in PSA slabs., for example Do you mean that they won't assign a number grade?

[KCRfan1]

The start of a new player collection:


http://www.ellisburkscollector.com/img/hodges/1953_bowman_color_92.jpg

That's a nice looking 3 Jason. Hodges is a nice player to collect. Arguably HoF numbers without the HoF pricing ( in most cases ). Along with F Robinson, Hodges is a great value imo.

[jchcollins]

Bowman in a last ditch effort tried to tie it's product to new technology. Color TV sets began selling in 1954. But the marketing ploy was ahead of it's time. Very few had color TVs in 1955. I think that even by 1957 the numbers were still below 200,000

If I recall the history, color sets were available in the mid-50's, but it was a good decade if not later before most shows began to be broadcast that way (Andy Griffith was late '60s before it was shot in color).

It may have been a last ditch effort for Bowman, but I've always loved these cards and the theme. Also you can get most stars and HOFers at a bargain in comparison to other 1950's sets. Anyone want to guess what a '55 Topps Mantle would go for if they had made one? A lower-grade '55 Bowman Mantle can still be had for a couple hundred bucks in most cases. And what's better than a 24 year-old Willie Mays fresh off of his first MVP season and "the catch" the previous October? I was thrilled to be able to pick this one-up. Facing facts anymore that if I want to wait to spend the type of money required for really "nice" cards that I want from this era (PSA 6 or above) that it's just really going to take a long time. That being said, I'm happy to pickup lower grade cards from more affordable sets for bargains. '58 Topps is another. No love for '58s in comparison to '55 - '57 Topps. But they are colorful cards and the set is packed full of stars.

I digress...let's hear it for the '55 Bowman TV sets!

[jchcollins]

The start of a new player collection:


http://www.ellisburkscollector.com/img/hodges/1953_bowman_color_92.jpg
Nice card Jason, and cool shot of Gil at 1B with that great Ebbets Field scoreboard in the background!

[Kurri17]

Say Hey!! Always loved the '55 Bowmans. But how many people really had "color" TV's back then? :)

A nice pickup of a great card. This one has grown on me, and my LCS has a PSA 5 that has been calling my name. As you noted lated in this thread, hard to beat mid-grade like this one. Congrats.

[Gobucsmagic74]

Have been after this one for a while. Little OC but was able to use my 10% off ebay coupon so got it at a fair price

[jchcollins]

Have been after this one for a while. Little OC but was able to use my 10% off ebay coupon so got it at a fair price

Nice card. Finding that one centered well is quite a chore, I've learned after nearly 30 years of collecting. I once had an example that was a solid NM or better, but centered L-R probably a tad worse than yours. Mainly because of that, I didn't hang on to it. Years later, I kind of wish I had because the color on it was really beautiful, and in my old age I'm trying to be a bit more tolerant with things like centering for my personal collection. (It's staggering this day in age when you can quickly look at many different examples of a single card for sale on eBay just how damn many of them are centered poorly - in some cases it's like 80% of the cards for sale outside of PSA 8's and above...and anymore those aren't always even centered that nicely unqualified for some issues). Anyhow - always thought the '57 Mick was one of the neater looking ones - but they are indeed a bear to find centered (and diamond cuts are pretty common too...) or without at least some type of moderate print damage.

[jchcollins]

A nice pickup of a great card. This one has grown on me, and my LCS has a PSA 5 that has been calling my name. As you noted lated in this thread, hard to beat mid-grade like this one. Congrats.

Thank you. I don't have a local card shop anymore. :mad: In some cases that's good, as my frequency of impulse purchases is way down without that "instant gratification" factor...but I do miss the experience of walking in, seeing the eye candy all in one place, smelling the nostalgia literally through thousands of old cards that were stockpiled in the back - and being able to work out a deal for a piece of history with the owner right then and there.

Again I do think that on the whole, the '55 Bowmans are under appreciated and great bargains (the Mays being a prime example) to add HOFers at a decent price. A '57 Topps or even a '59 Topps Mays in similar condition would have cost me probably $50 more, I'm willing to bet.

[MattyC]

Nice card. Finding that one centered well is quite a chore, I've learned after nearly 30 years of collecting. I once had an example that was a solid NM or better, but centered L-R probably a tad worse than yours. Mainly because of that, I didn't hang on to it. Years later, I kind of wish I had because the color on it was really beautiful, and in my old age I'm trying to be a bit more tolerant with things like centering for my personal collection. (It's staggering this day in age when you can quickly look at many different examples of a single card for sale on eBay just how damn many of them are centered poorly - in some cases it's like 80% of the cards for sale outside of PSA 8's and above...and anymore those aren't always even centered that nicely unqualified for some issues). Anyhow - always thought the '57 Mick was one of the neater looking ones - but they are indeed a bear to find centered (and diamond cuts are pretty common too...) or without at least some type of moderate print damage.

Great analysis of the 57 Mick, and jives with my experience as well. As someone who's been collecting pretty much only Mantle basic cards for a year now, I'm continually amazed by how his cards across the board are so often poorly centered, or with specific print defects, making nice ones very hard to find-- in any grade.

For every ten examples I see of a given Mick...sometimes zero are centered. For the 57, few are focused with crisp print, for that 1960 card, whew, a slew of print issues alongside centering, the 67 has that red dot on almost every example above the 'S' in YANKEES, the 53B and 54B cards feel like they show up centered .00000001% of the time, LOL, we've discussed the 51B here, which is infamously hard, the others all have their similar issues-- it all makes assembling a nice run quite the challenge.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Matt is a perfectionist, but for me I can live with centering like this with the right color and print quality.

[jason.1969]

...the others all have their similar issues-- it all makes assembling a nice run quite the challenge.

And here I thought the biggest challenge in assembling a nice Mantle run was how freaking expensive all his cards are! :D

[MattyC]

That specific PSA 7 of the '57 Mantle pictured up there is pretty much as good as it gets for that card, in my experience, in terms of the centering and print combo.

For comparison, there are a few PSA 8s and even a PSA 9 pictured on the PSA Registry Basic Mantle site, and in my opinion none of those higher graded examples with pictures are superior to that 7-- in terms of overall eye appeal.

It seems sharp corners carry that card to a high technical grade to the graders, but its centering and print woes remain-- for my money, corners take a back seat on that card in favor of print clarity, crisp focus, and centering. Great example, Peter!

[jason.1969]

Loving the Hodges, Mays, and Mantle recently posted. Learned over drinks that my boss loved Chris Chambliss as a kid. Picked him up this (hopefully real) autographed photo. Much appreciated if you can positively ID the other players shown...occasion is his huge HR in the 1976 ALCS. (Am assuming Munson and Carlos May, who was on deck, but let me know.)

215537

[jchcollins]

Matt is a perfectionist, but for me I can live with centering like this with the right color and print quality.

Yep! The greenish blue hue of the stands behind Mantle is what I was talking about. The nice ones have blue in them, but all too often this card even in high grade has the green and then blackish-brown due to the difference in print variation. My '57 Mantle that I sold probably a decade ago looked like your PSA 7, Peter. Though centering considerations on mine may have rendered it only a 6, if graded.

[jchcollins]

Great analysis of the 57 Mick, and jives with my experience as well. As someone who's been collecting pretty much only Mantle basic cards for a year now, I'm continually amazed by how his cards across the board are so often poorly centered...

Thanks. Equally good analysis of the run as a whole being difficult, with each set and card having its own particular quirks and idiosyncrasies. My centering score (though I didn't know it at the time; I didn't care about centering as a kid...) was the '56 Mantle gray back I picked-up and have had since I was about 14 years old (about 1990). It's only about a VG-ish card (corner wear, including some paper loss) - but besides being about 0.00002% diamond cut left to right if you look very closely - it is centered perfectly. It is a good example of a mid-grade card that retains a ton of eye appeal because even though it certainly has it's fair share of issues from the technical grading perspective - the color remains bright and that 50/50 centering all the way around just really sets it off. The one Mantle I have held onto since I was a kid because of what it means to me...:)

[gemmint77]

Got a few more!!

[gemmint77]

Last two for the year.

[rjd1]

Loving the Hodges, Mays, and Mantle recently posted. Learned over drinks that my boss loved Chris Chambliss as a kid. Picked him up this (hopefully real) autographed photo. Much appreciated if you can positively ID the other players shown...occasion is his huge HR in the 1976 ALCS. (Am assuming Munson and Carlos May, who was on deck, but let me know.)

215537
Huge Chambliss fan...
Autograph looks good to me
It was Munson and I'm pretty sure Sandy Alomar on deck

[mintacular]

Nice clementes, you done well sir!

[Jason Carota]

That's a nice looking 3 Jason. Hodges is a nice player to collect. Arguably HoF numbers without the HoF pricing ( in most cases ). Along with F Robinson, Hodges is a great value imo.

Thanks! I'm still amazed he's not in the HOF.

Nice card Jason, and cool shot of Gil at 1B with that great Ebbets Field scoreboard in the background!

That is the best part of the card! Sometimes I forget he's in the foreground. :)

[jchcollins]

I'm still amazed he's not in the HOF.


On the surface the "Gil belongs in the Hall" arguments seem to make sense - he was a very recognizable figure for a long time because he played for the perrineal pennant-winning Dodgers, and was always in the spotlight. Unfortunately however offensive stats for Hall consideration are typically tallied by position, and 1B is a tough position when trying to get in line with those numbers. While Gil's certainly aren't terrible - they also aren't among the top for that position in the Hall (think Lou Gehrig, Jimmie Foxx, Hank Greenberg, etc.)

Gil could have benefited from about 150 more lifetime HR's and 20 points or so on his lifetime average (.273) for solid HOF consideration. And also, though he finished with respectable MVP votes in a good number of seasons - he never won one.

[jason.1969]

I would add that he managed the Miracle Mets and was #1 in RBIs and #2 in HRs for the 1950s.

Yes, another 20 points in batting average was needed. Or as the modern fans would argue, "If only he'd walked more!"

[jchcollins]

I would add that he managed the Miracle Mets and was #1 in RBIs and #2 in HRs for the 1950s.

Yes, another 20 points in batting average was needed. Or as the modern fans would argue, "If only he'd walked more!"

Yeah, I wish the Hall worked different than it does. Personally I wouldn't mind seeing both Gil and Roger Maris enshrined. It's a shame that the standards aren't more even by position - look at some of the relatively weak by comparison hitting middle infielders and shortstops in particular (Reese, Rizzuto, Doerr) who were great defensively and big team leaders - who are in the Hall. 3rd base is another anomaly. Don't get me started on the injustice of Ron Santo and how long that took...

[Samsdaddy]

Not to get this thread off topic even more but in my opinion, the Hall of Fame is watered down. There are several good or very good players who played a long time and built up some decent numbers because of their years of longevity who should not be enshrined.

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame is reserved for the VERY BEST players of their era at their position. Guys you know when you were seeing them play, you were watching the best.

Anyway, back on topic, I sure like those Clemente cards. Very sharp!

[Beatles Guy]

.273 is not shabby when you see names such as Schmidt, Reggie, Killebrew and Mathews lower than that. Granted, those guys hit more HRs, but as was mentioned, Hodges was one of the premier power guys of his decade.

[jchcollins]

In my opinion, the Hall of Fame is reserved for the VERY BEST players of their era at their position. !

I would agree the best players of their era, but with the caveat that anymore that does NOT just mean the best players of all time. There are those out there that believe the HOF is only for the biggest names (Cobb, Mathewson, Ruth, DiMaggio, Mantle, Mays, Williams, Aaron, etc.) and that simply is not true. You saw this argument a few years back on Ron Santo and some people claiming well sorry, he simply wasn't "the best of the best." The by position analysis and especially throwing in things like SABR-type stats would argue well...if someone like George Kell is in the Hall (Bill James ranked him at like the 30th best 3rd baseman of all time) then why is Santo who is by their rankings the SIXTH best 3rd baseman of all time not? If the argument is that the Hall is only for the elitist of the elite, then we would have to go back to the 1940's and earlier and kick a bunch of people out. That's simply not historically what the Hall has ever been about.

[jchcollins]

.273 is not shabby when you see names such as Schmidt, Reggie, Killebrew and Mathews lower than that. Granted, those guys hit more HRs, but as was mentioned, Hodges was one of the premier power guys of his decade.

Yes, but this proves the point exactly. All of those other guys have more than 500 home runs. If Gil had 500 on the nose, he would have been in the Hall decades ago. That's one of those milestones that is pretty predictable. Why did it take Duke Snider so long to get in? I would argue the fact that he was shy of 500 played a big factor for a long time...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Baseball reference metrics.

Hall Of Fame StatisticsPlayer rank in (·)


Black Ink Batting - 2 (622), Average HOFer ≈ 27

Gray Ink Batting - 128 (141), Average HOFer ≈ 144

Hall of Fame Monitor Batting - 83 (230), Likely HOFer ≈ 100

Hall of Fame Standards Batting - 32 (275), Average HOFer ≈ 50

JAWS First Base (36th), 45.0 career WAR/34.3 7yr-peak WAR/39.6 JAWS

[Peter_Spaeth]

On this list of best players not in the Hall, Hodges is only ranked 38th.

http://baseballpastandpresent.com/2014/01/06/50-baseball-players-hall-fame-version-4-0/

[KCRfan1]

Loved the article Peter, thanks for sharing!

[JollyElm]

A HOF'er that's a tough high number in absolutely beautiful shape…

215779

Soon, Hoyt will be added to my 1972 Graded High Numbers for Trade thread in the B/S/T.

[jason.1969]

Keeping the Dodgers run going...not technically a pickup but I finally framed my 1956 Topps Dodgers set.

There are four blanks that will soon be filled with artist versions of four players from the 55 WS roster who Topps did not include as Dodgers in 56. My artist finished Hoak, but it may be a while before Kellert, Meyer, and Shuba follow.
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/24/51815089b52d44a5c95fd4ba12ab57ad.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/24/a43bf19a0aced9b58c3917faa300abd9.jpg

[MattyC]

Jason, that is AWESOME!!!

Love those Clementes up earlier as well.

[jason.1969]

I decided to make my own temp versions of the missing three. The Shuba didn't really work out, but it'll do till the real one comes.http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/24/aad8fb07cde80a4e5c41b232116a7b6c.jpg

[almostdone]

Very nice display Jason. I know how hard you worked on it this year and I think it came out great. Very nice. Congrats!
Drew

[jason.1969]

And courtesy of N54 Secret Santa...a major haul!! The Ashburn and Aaron were on my Top 100 Want List...getting close!
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/25/4c5119035c57e441be366b99cafe1d59.jpg
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/12/25/e42a5b82b29e082132ebe36dc0f2468b.jpg

[Samsdaddy]

Very nice stuff Jason!