Do you believe there are any undervalued Mantle items?

[KCRfan1]

Getting away from the 1952 Topps and 1951 Bowman due to their price and ability for most to acquire one, are there any Mantle cards that could be viewed as " undervalued "? Undervalued can take many shapes and forms. Such as: Is the card difficult to find in good condition, centering, price in relationship to the year of the card and Mantles career. Perhaps the popularity of the year of the set, which may impact the value of a Mantle card for better or worse.

What are your thoughts? I really don't know. I remember a board member posting years ago that the only people who thought Mantle was too expensive were the ones who did not own a Mantle.

So my question is: Do you believe there are any undervalued Mantle cards?

[PolarBear]

No.


But, I will say the 51 Bowman is grossly undervalued compared to the 52 Topps. 5k for a 51 PSA 4 or 30k for a 52 PSA 4. I just don't get it.

The 51 looks 10x better than the 52 and it's his true rookie. Heck, I'd rather have his 52 Bowman than a 52 Topps.

Same argument goes for his 53 Bowman vs his 53 Topps.

[KCRfan1]

That 1953 Bowman is one of the best looking Mantle cards I have ever seen. The fact that the card is part of a set that is wildly popular adds to the appeal.

[Bestdj777]

Yes. There are a number of undervalued Mantles.

[sflayank]

YES
mantle dice game
mantle discs
mantle mask
mantle punchouts
1967 mantle stand up NICEST CARD EVER MADE
everyone of these is 100x rarer than a 52 topps

[ALR-bishop]

Adding to Larry's list

67 Disc
68 Disc

Of course you have to find one, and even if Larry is right about them being undervalued, they won't be cheap ;)

[sflayank]

only undervalued because of the new insane values of the 51 52 53

[KCRfan1]

Larry, so there could eventually be a trickle down to other years as the 51, 52, and price prospective owners out? This is what I am looking for. Is the 1956 Topps the next Mantle to see a jump into the stratosphere?

[bobbyw8469]

I think some of his mid 60 cards are undervalued. Also the 1969 White Letter variation.

[KCRfan1]

Robert, the 62, 63, and 64 all seem reasonably priced. Not crazy about the 68 though that year appears to be the least expensive of the Topps series. I would expect the 62 to be more expensive being an MVP year, but a nice card can be had for less than $250. I'm not sure why that is.

[Bestdj777]

I think the higher grade base cards will likely see an uptick in price as a result of the 52 Topps price surges. The 51 Bowman may see some increases as well, particularly as the 52 Topps becomes less and less obtainable for regular collectors.

The cards I really think are undervalued though are there Venezuelans and the rarer regional pieces. Some of these have seen a recent uptick, but the more common Venezuelans can still be had for relatively decent prices despite the relatively small number of them in existence.

I think the Topps test issues are a completely different story as I think it is incredibly difficult to tell what the value actually is of many of them. I do think that some of them are really under appreciated though.

[ls7plus]

Yes, there are. Among the one's I already have, the '53-'55 Dormand in higher grade (ExMt or better) and the '55 Exhibit Postcard Back in any grade. A well-centered '69 White Lettered version (I have one almost perfectly centered, but it almost looks like one that met up with the bicycle spokes), a NrMt (TPG) '59 Bazooka, plus another which I have a continuing search on. While there may only be a fraction of the demand for these cards compared to the '52 Topps, since the supply is much smaller in most of the above instances, you only need a fraction of the demand also to reach really substantial value in the long run.

Good, thoughtful thread,

Larry

[DeanH3]

'54 Dan-Dee. A tough great looking early card that is not too obscure but still a relatively low pop compared to Topps issues. I recently acquired one so I might be a little biased. I also think the '53 Bowman has a lot of potential as well.

[KCRfan1]

Dean, I had forgotten about DanDee! Many of those cards have chip stains of some sort and nice examples I assume can be hard to find. Your post reminded me about the 54 Red Heart! The DanDee and Red Heart are both nice looking cards. I imagine the DanDee would be more desirable due to sensitivity to condition from being packaged in potato chips. Therefore a better playing purchasing?

[Gr8Beldini]

A crease free, clean cut 1963 Jello Mantle is near impossible. I don't know what they typically sell for because they never seem to be offered up for sale, but I would happily pay the "book price" for a nice one.

[brian1961]

Yes, very much so.:D

How's that for a succinct answer?

---Brian Powell

[jchcollins]

Don't get me wrong, I understand the economics of nostalgia and I get why Mantle stuff is valued the way most of it is - but I think most of it is grossly overvalued if you look at the other players that were also the big names of that era. Compare the Mantle-fever to what you pay for even really nice Stan Musial items, for example. But - it was anointed this way in the 1980's, and I see little hope of anything ever changing. In the meantime, it's nice to be a Cubs fan and pay in the neighborhood of $50 for nice 1950's cards of Ernie Banks instead of $300 or more if Mantle really was my guy.

[jchcollins]

Your post reminded me about the 54 Red Heart! The DanDee and Red Heart are both nice looking cards.

The '54 Red Heart Mantle in nice (EX-MT or better) shape can be a stunning card. I used to have a couple of them back when I was really doing a lot of buying and selling of cards before I settled down with things like a family. Wish I had hung onto one of them...and yes, I think that card for how beautiful it is is undervalued when compared to many other Mantle items (i.e. any of his regular issue 1950's Topps cards graded in decent shape still likely sell for more).

[brian1961]

A crease free, clean cut 1963 Jello Mantle is near impossible. I don't know what they typically sell for because they never seem to be offered up for sale, but I would happily pay the "book price" for a nice one.

I am biting my lip extra hard not to be sarcastic. So you're generous enough you'd force yourself to pay the "book price" for a nice 1963 JELL-O Mickey Mantle? If you can only hear your voice, my friend. Really? You'd finally ante up enough and make your Washingtons blink for five minutes to pay book value for a nice '63 JELL-O? If this scenario was a line waiting to get into Yankee Stadium to see Mickey Mantle play, you'd be back in the line 5 miles away!

I admit in all humility I'm out of the buying ball game at today's prices. Nevertheless, precisely the same supply, demand, economic, mental, and emotional factors were at play 25 years ago when I was a "Mantle Maniac".

If I may be so bold to divulge a bit of my strategy; regardless of the fact eBay, and major and minor auction houses present us with virtual LIVE scans and picture images of a mega plethora of Mickey Mantle items, when it comes to the beautiful, scarce, and/or rare Mantle items---based upon surviving specimens and / or profound condition rarities, the astute Mickey Mantle connoisseur must take on the persona of the male Bengal Tiger---AND ATTACK WITH EVERYTHING THEY'VE GOT! In other words, there were phrases used with such choice, difficult Mickey Mantles.

To wit:

"THE PRICE IS OPEN TO NEGOTIATION"

"THE PRICE GUIDE GOES OUT THE WINDOW!"

"YOU CAN THROW THE PRICE GUIDE AWAY ON THIS ONE!"

"WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY LIES BEFORE YOU, DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO PLAY THE SMART ASS POKER PLAYER! The owner's liable to get ticked off and not sell that rare Mantle for you for ANY price."

You act like a gracious gentleman, mind your manners (hopefully you have some---hopefully!) and express humble gratitude to the owner for his deeming you worthy of owning such a rare Mantle, and then, "How would you like your money---cash, bank draft, or a stack of US Postal Money Orders?"

For example, when I purchased my long-wanted 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle from Bill Mastro, he would not come down on his price, which was 4X book. Did I wait for him to come down?

And lose it to one of the many other Mantle collectors who would've licked their chops to get their hands on that monster of a Mantle?

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

He gave me two months to come up with the dough. I turned many cards in my collection into just the one dream card. He kept his word. I kept mine.

Was it worth it when I unwrapped his package?

You better believe it, and I still have this Mickey----26 years later. One of the most breathtaking Mickey Mantles on the face of Planet Earth.:D

Well, bro, in the end, the opportunity to get certain Mickey Mantles falls into the categories:

RARE, SELDOM OPPORTUNITY

CHANCE OF A LIFETIME

My Stahl-Meyer Franks was a chance of a lifetime.

So, when you find a Mantle you like, don't you dare Scotch the rare opportunity just because you're such a cheapskate! As a hungry Bengal Tiger on the prowl, you better pounce when you can.

Think about it. Think real hard and ponder this matter. For so many of us Mantle connoisseurs, our most cherished pieces are the non-mainstream. The good 'ol vanilla and chocolate Topps and Bowmans are terrific in every sense. But my favorites at Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors were Black Raspberry and Jamocha Almond Fudge.

I sincerely hope your hunt proves successful for a 1963 JELL-O Mickey, but you better re-think your MODUS OPERANDI, bub. For what it's worth, you should also hunt down fantasy card maker Bob Lemke. Earlier this year, he created a fantasy 1963 JELL-O Black Raspberry box with a gorgeous variant photo of Mickey Mantle. He used the dazzling shot taken of No. 7 for JELL-O's large in-store advertising placard. Worth every Washington I spent on that exquisite piece, and it didn't cost many bucks, either.

Take care.:) ----Brian Powell

[jchcollins]

For example, when I purchased my long-wanted 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle from Bill Mastro, he would not come down on his price, which was 4X book. Did I wait for him to come down?



Bill Mastro, eh? The T-206 Wagner cutter himself? Surprised he wanted only 4x book. Ah well, I suppose beauty and book value both are in eye of the beholder when chasing your white whale...

[bbcard1]

I think a nice Transogram is a decent buy at current levels.

[CW]

'54 Dan-Dee. A tough great looking early card that is not too obscure but still a relatively low pop compared to Topps issues. I recently acquired one so I might be a little biased. I also think the '53 Bowman has a lot of potential as well.

I would have to agree with Dean's assessment. :) '54 Dan Dee!

congrats on the new card!

[KCRfan1]

Brian,

Can you post an image of your Stahl-Meyer Franks Mantle? Would it be safe to say that, even though you paid 4x back in the day, the value far exceeds that price now? Again, I suppose the term " undervalued " may apply to regional issues of Mantle.

Are there some Mantle cards that are a little too obscure? Someone mentioned Transogram. Is there a market for them or the 68 Topps game cards? Both sets have star power, are they undervalued or just no interest from collectors?

[Bestdj777]

The 68 Game cards were produced in large quantity and the supply definitely outweighs the demand. The Transogram cards are a bit more difficult and bringing a lot stronger prices, particularly in complete box form. Shameless plug, but if anyone is looking for a decent Transogram I've got one I picked up at Clean Sweep Auction that I'd let go at cost--I finally got a complete box.

I love the Red Hearts, but my understanding is that they continued to release those for many, many years through the mail.

[AustinMike]

Brian,

Are there some Mantle cards that are a little too obscure? Someone mentioned Transogram. Is there a market for them or the 68 Topps game cards? Both sets have star power, are they undervalued or just no interest from collectors?

I don't think there are any Mantle cards that are too obscure. And as far as undervalued, I guess what you're really asking is, 'Are there any cards we think will see a significant uptick in price?"

As we all know, the main determination of price is supply and demand. Supply is supposedly (legally) fixed (or decreasing as items are destroyed). Demand fluctuates. So the question boils down to, "Will demand increase enough in the future to cause an increase in the price?" That's the $64,000 question; and I think mainly a question for speculators. If enough speculators think it's value may go up, they may jump in causing a self-fulfilling prophecy. If that were to happen, in my opinion, that would make the card overvalued. Only if the collector base were to significantly increase in the future (in relation to a card's supply) would the card be undervalued today, again, in my opinion.

An example, the 1968 Topps game card. Like Chris said, the supply of the 1968 Topps game card exceeds the demand, hence it has a low "price." Is it undervalued? No, not according to today's demand. Will demand increase for this card in the future? It's anyone's guess. In my opinion, there are enough cards out there that, I think, the demand for this card will be met for some time to come.

There are some cards that may not have a large supply, but they are butt ugly and only a completest would want it (e.g., the 1965 Bancroft Tiddlers Giants of Sport (that's just my own personal opinion)). I can't ever see a card like this being in high demand.

Generally, I'm a pessimist in regards to the long-term "value" of Mantle cards and I'm amazed at the price increases I've seen. I'm also disappointed; there are still a bunch of his cards I'd like to get and I hate to see their "value" increasing before I can get them. :p

[AustinMike]

[Dup]

[AustinMike]

So, when you find a Mantle you like, don't you dare Scotch the rare opportunity just because you're such a cheapskate! As a hungry Bengal Tiger on the prowl, you better pounce when you can.

----Brian Powell

For me, it was the 1960 Post Mantle. First Mantle card I ever had. Ended up in the dump in the 60s.

Kept watching eBay and passing on lower condition examples. Finally, a nice one came up with a BIN or Best Offer. The BIN was slightly higher than "book value." I didn't hesitate or waste time with a Best Offer. Still don't regret pulling the trigger on it. As Janis Joplin sang, "Gotta get it while you can."

[Bestdj777]

There are some cards that may not have a large supply, but they are butt ugly and only a completest would want it (e.g., the 1965 Bancroft Tiddlers Giants of Sport (that's just my own personal opinion)). I can't ever see a card like this being in high demand

Wow, in my opinion the Bancroft Tiddlers card is one of the nicest period pieces of Mantle there is, I mean apart from the fact it does not really resemble him, the colors are all off, and you have to purchase two cards to get both the front and back. Other than that, not sure why it isn't seeing the same prices as the 52 Topps :) I actually wanted that one because I have a thing for foreign issued cards and generally think they are underrated, but I agree it's far from an ideal piece.

[brian1961]

Originally posted by AustinMike-----An example, the 1968 Topps game card. Like Chris said, the supply of the 1968 Topps game card exceeds the demand, hence it has a low "price." Is it undervalued? No, not according to today's demand. Will demand increase for this card in the future? It's anyone's guess. In my opinion, there are enough cards out there that, I think, the demand for this card will be met for some time to come.

YES, THAT'S FOR SURE. FOR A FREEBIE IN A 1967 TOPPS NICKEL WAX PACK, HOW IN THE WORLD DID WE COME TO HAVE SO MANY OF 'EM? WHEREAS, THE BASIC 1964 COINS ARE MUCH TOUGHER. THE ALL-STARS SEEM MUCH MORE PLENTIFUL.

There are some cards that may not have a large supply, but they are butt ugly and only a completest would want it (e.g., the 1965 Bancroft Tiddlers Giants of Sport (that's just my own personal opinion)). I can't ever see a card like this being in high demand.

YOU GOT THAT RIGHT, BROTHER. 1965 TOPPS PUSH-PULL, TOPPS WHO AM I?, 1965 TOPPS EMBOSSED CAMEO, TOPPS PUNCH-OUT, and a few etcetras.

Generally, I'm a pessimist in regards to the long-term "value" of Mantle cards and I'm amazed at the price increases I've seen. I'm also disappointed; there are still a bunch of his cards I'd like to get and I hate to see their "value" increasing before I can get them. :p[/QUOTE]

YOU GOT THAT OH SO RIGHT AGAIN, BRO. WISH I HAD HELD ONTO SOME OF MINE. WISH I HAD TRIED MUCH HARDER TO GET A FEW OF THEM YEARS AGO.

PART OF THE LIFE OF A COLLECTOR. IT HAPPENS. IT'S HARD; VERY HARD.:(

THANKS FOR A GOOD POST. ---Brian Powell

PS--The 1960 Post Cereal was the very first Mickey Mantle card I ever saw. I've got a very compelling story about the experience in my forthcoming book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. I don't want to tell it here for obvious reasons, and it may not be that compelling of a tale to some, but it left a huge impression on me as a little 6-year old boy. Did you happen to see the photo of an example PSA graded AUTHENTIC? The owner cut it on the inside black frame where it just shows the picture, and no wooden frame to be seen. Kinda like a beautiful Bengal Tiger with his teeth pulled out. Made me sick.

[brian1961]

brian,

Can you post an image of your Stahl-Meyer Franks mantle? Would it be safe to say that, even though you paid 4x back in the day, the value far exceeds that price now? Again, i suppose the term " undervalued " may apply to regional issues of mantle.

Lou, i'll have to see what I can do. I'd have to have my son help me load up some image of it. Yeah, I'm a real "brontosaurus". My '54 Stahl-Meyer Mantle gem is in my book, and it came out beautifully with the accouterments I chose for its portrait.

For most of the chapters, I don't own anything great to speak of, but for this one, I do. Graded SGC50 VG-EX. It was never imprisoned between the two rows of wet, greasy but delicious Stahl-Meyer frankfurters. Color is off the charts. Centering is dead 50-50 both ways. Its only flaw, and I mean only, is a half-inch back crease that starts on a side edge of the card and goes in, missing Mickey but reducing the grade from Mint to technical VG-EX. A technical knock-out for the grade; nevertheless, the card is simply breathtaking.

Are there some Mantle cards that are a little too obscure? Someone mentioned Transogram. (NOTE-----The Transogram is appreciated by quite a number of Mickey Mantle enthusiasts; recently I saw a PSA 9 on eBay. The seller's price escapes me, but it was colossal.) Is there a market for them or the 68 Topps game cards? Both sets have star power, are they undervalued or just no interest from collectors?

Some of the Topps test issues were either never issued or sold in a Brooklyn candy store for test purposes. Some of them are gorgeous; some are very obscure, and ugly to boot. I would even urge our resident Mickey Mantle master completionist not to lose any sleep over them. Be that as it may, whatever he chooses, he's my pal and I'm behind him.

Besides, these obscure Topps test issues are indeed Topps products, and have bus-loads of feverish fans, as well they should be.

'Nuf said. Regards, Brian Powell

[jchcollins]

Brian,
Would it be safe to say that, even though you paid 4x back in the day, the value far exceeds that price now?


Those regional issues in any kind of shape have always been pricey. I have the 2nd issue of Baseball Cards magazine from 1981, and they value the Stahl-Meyer Mantles at $700 and up even back then. To put into context, remember that in 1981 a gallon of gas cost $1, a dozen eggs cost about 90 cents, and the median household income in the US was less than 30K per year. Other run-of-the-mill star cards from the 1950's in "mint" condition could be mostly had for well less than $20.

[pawpawdiv9]

As i did my Mantle runs...I enjoyed the 60 post. That salmon color and wood frame was fantastic, mine was grade sgc10...I also had a Oklahome Today..pretty obscure piece with a nice shot of the Mick. I had several oddballs, even the 54 Dan-Dee which and the 52 BerkRoss and had the 65 Bancroft Tiddlers, that i consgined to Sterling this past Spring that went waaaayyy cheap!! Think they were PSa 5's.
After selling the collection (except the 51B and 52T RC) ..i am still happy where i am today with some Hof RC's. If i ever decide to try it again..I know know to buy the best centered ones and only do the Basic Topps runs. I know a few folks here are accomplishing this goal and have setup a nice collection thus far. But i believe that the 51 (52 WS?? determined) Wheaties B&W premium was by far my most prized oddball item.
And to my other bro, Begsu..i am still wowed by that signed 51B you have. Can i hold it next year??

[jchcollins]

I have the 2nd issue of Baseball Cards magazine from 1981, and they value the Stahl-Meyer Mantles at $700 and up even back then.

Correction, it is the '81 Sport Americana price guide that has the Stahl-Meyers. The '81 BBCM I have lists a '52 Topps Mantle #311 for $1100 ($660 in VG), and a '53 Topps Mays for $575. Nolan Ryan's '68 Topps RC is $10.

[KCRfan1]

Those prices make us all ill.

So does anyone feel there is room for appreciation in price with mid-grade, standard Topps issues of Mantle? What about Mantle All-Star cards which typically are high numbers?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Self serving all the way.

[ALR-bishop]

Nice one Peter

[Peter_Spaeth]

Nice one Peter

Thanks Al. With all the cut lines showing I think it actually would get a number grade by PSA, which they have only given to 5 cards -- the other 58 are all AUTH.

[AustinMike]

PS--The 1960 Post Cereal was the very first Mickey Mantle card I ever saw. I've got a very compelling story about the experience in my forthcoming book, NEVER CHEAPER BY THE DOZEN. I don't want to tell it here for obvious reasons, and it may not be that compelling of a tale to some, but it left a huge impression on me as a little 6-year old boy. Did you happen to see the photo of an example PSA graded AUTHENTIC? The owner cut it on the inside black frame where it just shows the picture, and no wooden frame to be seen. Kinda like a beautiful Bengal Tiger with his teeth pulled out. Made me sick.

Yes, I did see it. It made me very sad, but not sick. I can imagine some kid at the time thinking the frame was unnecessary and doing away with it. Considering these were free on the back of cereal boxes, I figure there's nothing to feel sick about some kid making the card the way he wanted. It's sad that that was the fate of that particular card, but mine ended up in the dump. Which is worse? Like you, I was 6 when these came out in 1960. When I think about it, I'm sure the condition of my post cereal cards was not that great. I'd be willing to bet that I let the scissors stray inside the border. I handled mine constantly so I'm sure there were creases, bent corners, etc. Instead of feeling sick about it, I marvel that any survived in decent condition. :)

[AustinMike]

Thanks Al. With all the cut lines showing I think it actually would get a number grade by PSA, which they have only given to 5 cards -- the other 58 are all AUTH.

Peter, that is one of my Holy Grails. I've been searching for one like yours for a while now. Like you said, the vast majority of the '59 Bazookas are AUTH. I think I've seen one that was a 1 or 2. The sad part is the asking price of even the ones graded as AUTH. Your card puts those to shame. Congratulations! Color me very envious!

[KCRfan1]

Peter,

I have to ask if you purchased the Bazooka or did you clip it from a box back in the day?

[brian1961]

Yes, I did see it. It made me very sad, but not sick. I can imagine some kid at the time thinking the frame was unnecessary and doing away with it. Considering these were free on the back of cereal boxes, I figure there's nothing to feel sick about some kid making the card the way he wanted. It's sad that that was the fate of that particular card, but mine ended up in the dump. Which is worse? Like you, I was 6 when these came out in 1960. When I think about it, I'm sure the condition of my post cereal cards was not that great. I'd be willing to bet that I let the scissors stray inside the border. I handled mine constantly so I'm sure there were creases, bent corners, etc. Instead of feeling sick about it, I marvel that any survived in decent condition. :)

AUSTINMIKE---

You are right on all counts. It would be far better to have that glorious picture of Mickey Mantle, than not have the card at all.

I guess where I was coming from is that I interpreted from viewing the piece that the gent recently cut up a card having a damaged frame, submitted it, and PSA gave its AUTHENTIC, which in fact is justifiable. At least the picture area had been preserved well, which counts for something.

Moreover, on the side of the cereal package, the company provided explicit instructions as to how to mount the card. Without having them in front me, you were to fold the corner frames outward, following the frame line at each of the four corners. Once done it would resemble a three-dimensional framed portrait of the star. Like most six-year-olds, you would not have been able to read the instructions, though most kids that age would tend to seek the help of a parent or older sibling, if one had one. The instructions were carefully illustrated, however.

Me, I never got a Post Cereal package with the Sports Stars. Boy they were beautiful!

Your fascinating response of your own experience with the 1960 Post Cereal Mantle was marvelous, and so epitomizes what I wrote in my book's second chapter, where I discus this particular card. If I ever do a revised version, I would love to include your brief, pertinent story and comments if I may.

I love our gent's 1959 Bazooka Mantle. That's part of the focus of my book's eighteenth chapter. Mine's SGC AUTHENTIC. I'm extremely fond of this card, having bought it from none other than Lionel Carter, in the summer of '72.

All the best. ---Brian Powell

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter,

I have to ask if you purchased the Bazooka or did you clip it from a box back in the day?

And what makes you think I could possibly be that old LOL?? I bought it a few years ago; it was already graded. :D

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter, that is one of my Holy Grails. I've been searching for one like yours for a while now. Like you said, the vast majority of the '59 Bazookas are AUTH. I think I've seen one that was a 1 or 2. The sad part is the asking price of even the ones graded as AUTH. Your card puts those to shame. Congratulations! Color me very envious!

Thanks Michael. I am fortunate to have found it, I looked a very long time if memory serves. I think the only PSA graded Mantle I have ever seen with a number grade is a 1. SGC is a little inconsistent on their grading, once in a while you will see a numerical grade with the cut inside the cut lines.

[ls7plus]

I am biting my lip extra hard not to be sarcastic. So you're generous enough you'd force yourself to pay the "book price" for a nice 1963 JELL-O Mickey Mantle? If you can only hear your voice, my friend. Really? You'd finally ante up enough and make your Washingtons blink for five minutes to pay book value for a nice '63 JELL-O? If this scenario was a line waiting to get into Yankee Stadium to see Mickey Mantle play, you'd be back in the line 5 miles away!

I admit in all humility I'm out of the buying ball game at today's prices. Nevertheless, precisely the same supply, demand, economic, mental, and emotional factors were at play 25 years ago when I was a "Mantle Maniac".

If I may be so bold to divulge a bit of my strategy; regardless of the fact eBay, and major and minor auction houses present us with virtual LIVE scans and picture images of a mega plethora of Mickey Mantle items, when it comes to the beautiful, scarce, and/or rare Mantle items---based upon surviving specimens and / or profound condition rarities, the astute Mickey Mantle connoisseur must take on the persona of the male Bengal Tiger---AND ATTACK WITH EVERYTHING THEY'VE GOT! In other words, there were phrases used with such choice, difficult Mickey Mantles.

To wit:

"THE PRICE IS OPEN TO NEGOTIATION"

"THE PRICE GUIDE GOES OUT THE WINDOW!"

"YOU CAN THROW THE PRICE GUIDE AWAY ON THIS ONE!"

"WHEN THE OPPORTUNITY LIES BEFORE YOU, DON'T YOU DARE TRY TO PLAY THE SMART ASS POKER PLAYER! The owner's liable to get ticked off and not sell that rare Mantle for you for ANY price."

You act like a gracious gentleman, mind your manners (hopefully you have some---hopefully!) and express humble gratitude to the owner for his deeming you worthy of owning such a rare Mantle, and then, "How would you like your money---cash, bank draft, or a stack of US Postal Money Orders?"

For example, when I purchased my long-wanted 1954 Stahl-Meyer Franks Mickey Mantle from Bill Mastro, he would not come down on his price, which was 4X book. Did I wait for him to come down?

And lose it to one of the many other Mantle collectors who would've licked their chops to get their hands on that monster of a Mantle?

NO WAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!

He gave me two months to come up with the dough. I turned many cards in my collection into just the one dream card. He kept his word. I kept mine.

Was it worth it when I unwrapped his package?

You better believe it, and I still have this Mickey----26 years later. One of the most breathtaking Mickey Mantles on the face of Planet Earth.:D

Well, bro, in the end, the opportunity to get certain Mickey Mantles falls into the categories:

RARE, SELDOM OPPORTUNITY

CHANCE OF A LIFETIME

My Stahl-Meyer Franks was a chance of a lifetime.

So, when you find a Mantle you like, don't you dare Scotch the rare opportunity just because you're such a cheapskate! As a hungry Bengal Tiger on the prowl, you better pounce when you can.

Think about it. Think real hard and ponder this matter. For so many of us Mantle connoisseurs, our most cherished pieces are the non-mainstream. The good 'ol vanilla and chocolate Topps and Bowmans are terrific in every sense. But my favorites at Baskin-Robbins 31 Flavors were Black Raspberry and Jamocha Almond Fudge.

I sincerely hope your hunt proves successful for a 1963 JELL-O Mickey, but you better re-think your MODUS OPERANDI, bub. For what it's worth, you should also hunt down fantasy card maker Bob Lemke. Earlier this year, he created a fantasy 1963 JELL-O Black Raspberry box with a gorgeous variant photo of Mickey Mantle. He used the dazzling shot taken of No. 7 for JELL-O's large in-store advertising placard. Worth every Washington I spent on that exquisite piece, and it didn't cost many bucks, either.

Take care.:) ----Brian Powell

+1 on this philosophy. When a rare, choice item comes along, jump on it! As prolific coin writer/dealer/expert extraordinaire Q. David Bowers said many times, no great collection was ever formed by waiting for bargains. Otherwise stated, he who hesitates is lost!

Best of luck in your collecting,

Larry

[ls7plus]

Self serving all the way.

Very nice '59 Bazooka Mantle, Pete. I had a TPG NrMt, sold it, and regretted it ever since.

Highest regards,

Larry

[Brian Van Horn]

.

[Bestdj777]

.

What is that?

[Brian Van Horn]

What is that?

Chris,

Not sure.

[Bestdj777]

Chris,

Not sure.

It's pretty cool. And, if it is undervalued and you want to get rid of it, I'm always willing to take it off your hands :). I've got roughly 400 unique Mantles at this point but haven't seen that one before. Thanks for sharing.

[KCRfan1]

Chris,

Is your Mantle Master Set now 391 / 399 ?

[KCRfan1]

.


That is super cool Brian! Where did you pick those up at?

[Exhibitman]

I am picking up lesser grade Mantle cards that I want now, because the inflation will seep down the grade spectrum like it has with the 1952 Mantle and to some extent the 1954 Aaron, and I am afraid I will be paying a lot more if I wait. I am already too late to pick up a 1952 Mantle on budget and I had to settle for an Aaron RC that is nice for the grade but a bit below where I'd have liked to be. I could buy a 52T or 51B if I wanted to liquidate a big chunk of my collection but I don't want to do that. Plus, I am getting the cards that look like the ones I had when I was a kid. I bought one of these in about this shape for $3.25 at a card club auction around 1978. Cost me a bit more this time.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous5/websize/1952%20Bowman%20Mantle.jpeg

This one is actually an upgrade from the one I had as kid but again, the one I had in 1978 cost me $2:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous5/websize/1953%20Bowman%20Mantle%20SGC%2040.jpeg

As for undervalued, my suggestion:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous5/websize/1962%20Post%20Mantle%20SGC%2030_1.jpeg

[brian1961]

Nice Mantles, Adam. They sure are beauties. Yeah, there may be a trickle down effect on the values / listing price / prices paid for all period Mantles.

Though these do not concern you, the price for commemorative Mantles have also raised my eyebrows several times.

[brian1961]

Chris,

Is your Mantle Master Set now 391 / 399 ?

Hey Lou, Chris just informed me it's now 392 / 399; he's added Brian's nifty, small portrait card of a very young Commerce Comet to his already vast holdings! Quite a nice score; perhaps he will offer up Stan The Man for a fair price and recoup a hunk of his original purchase.

First, however, it would be beneficial to everyone if somehow he was able to identify the source of these 2 black 'n white pearls. It would seem they were part of a product package for an item the two baseball stars were endorsing.

Be that as it may, the image of Mickey is unique; I don't recall ever seeing it.

Again, nice pick-up Chris. Also, if I may say so, a very impressive, swift Bengal Tiger kill on your part, my friend. You wasted not a second to pounce on this hunka Mantle meat!:D

Kudos, my friend. ---Brian Powell

[KCRfan1]

Well that didn't take long did it Chris.

[pawpawdiv9]

Thats awesome Bestdj777 to grab those, i tried to research those, I remember seeing it before, like it was from a board game or something i thought at first. Still very cool.
Meanwhile, i picked up the 80's Ripken Orange card and got it today.

[Bestdj777]

Haha, thank you. I have been fortunate to pick up a number of Mantles over the years. I am currently at 397 unique items (445 total), with 5 more on my want list. It is a moving target though as I occasionally seeing things I never knew existed. Brian's card was one of those examples. Fortunately, we were able to work out a deal that was fair for both of us--he made a decent profit off of it (as he should have given that it was an awesome piece and worth more to me than what he had paid for it) and I added a card to my collection that I thought would fit nicely. My initial inclination is that it was cut from a box or magazine of some kind, but I have not been able to confirm. I hope to be able to track it down more once I have it in hand. I only purchased the Mantle, so I will be sharing any information with Brian on the other and that will hopefully allow him to bank some money on that one (or keep an awesome card in his collection).

[cammb]

All of his cards are overvalued, especially the double printed 52 Topps!!!

[KCRfan1]

All of his cards are overvalued, especially the double printed 52 Topps!!!

The card should be twice as cheap!

[sandmountainslim]

I think the 1958 All Star Mantle is undervalued compared to his other fifties cards.

[KCRfan1]

I think the 1958 All Star Mantle is undervalued compared to his other fifties cards.


I love the look of that card. Another Mantle that caught my attention is the 1962 Topps " The Switch Hitter Connects ". This card has Mantles yearly stats and shows him in action at the plate. The card is priced significantly less than his regular card.

[Samsdaddy]

I think the 1958 All Star Mantle is undervalued compared to his other fifties cards.

I agree but glad it is undervalued as it is the only Mantle I own. :D

Part of the reason is I have all 58 All Stars. Great sub set.

[Topps206]

I've seen later year Mantle base cards under $100.00. That's rare. Almost anything Mantle base is sometimes more expensive than a T206 for some Hall of Famers.

[Exhibitman]

A few more issues I think are undervalued or underappreciated:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous5/websize/1967%20Dexter%20Press%20Mantle.jpeg
1965 Old London coin:
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous5/1965%20Old%20London%20Mantle.jpg
Requena Mantle-Maris:
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1962%20Mantle%20Maris%20premium%201.JPG
1968 American Oil
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/miscellaneous4/websize/1968%20American%20Oil%20Mantle%201.JPG

[glynparson]

some cards mentioned are underpriced in the book but if went up for sale would command serious money, For example what would a dice game bring in auction in this market i think it would bring in a boatload. as for 58 all star if anything it is overpriced as it is such an easy card to acquire compared to the other as cards.

[KCRfan1]

Those are nice items Adam! The Dexter Press is a great picture of Mantle! Are those real signatures on the photo of Maris and Mantle?

[begsu1013]

i'd say the 54 topps card. seriously. most people don't even know it actually exists.

[Peter_Spaeth]

i'd say the 54 topps card. seriously. most people don't even know it actually exists.

You mean the paper magazine cutout from SI?

[begsu1013]

yep. can still pick up full mags for less than $100. after all it is only the 2nd issue of SI to begin with and you get cards of mantle, whitey ford, berra, slaughter and the rest of the yankees.

if any of the tpg's started grading it, you can bet it will absolutely sky rocket in value. I have about 20 mags or so that I've quietly put away over the years.

I have never inquired to psa about grading them but may request it soon. technically they wouldn't grade any of the other cards as they were issued in packs, however the mantle wasn't and theoretically should....

edit: and it's more than just a paper cut out. they were issued in 3 page sheet form. it's definitely not the same case as the 66 ryan sporting news xrc.

[Peter_Spaeth]

yep. can still pick up full mags for less than $100. after all it is only the 2nd issue of SI to begin with and you get cards of mantle, whitey ford, berra, slaughter and the rest of the yankees.

if any of the tpg's started grading it, you can bet it will absolutely sky rocket in value. I have about 20 mags or so that I've quietly put away over the years.

I have never inquired to psa about grading them but may request it soon. technically they wouldn't grade any of the other cards as they were issued in packs, however the mantle wasn't and theoretically should....

edit: and it's more than just a paper cut out. they were issued in 3 page sheet form. it's definitely not the same case as the 66 ryan xrc

Yes I have seen the sheets, but if you cut out the Mantle doesn't it become a cut out?

[begsu1013]

Yes I have seen the sheets, but if you cut out the Mantle doesn't it become a cut out?

would still be numerically graded, it would just be designated "hand cut" on the left side, bottom line of a psa flip.

and after all, consider ya get $25 for the rest of the team...that's berra, ford, slaughter and co.....what other non-reprinted card from the 50's can you grab of the mick for $75, let alone a topps version that never was supposed to exist?

the thread is about undervalued mantles and I think you'd be hard-pressed to find another one w/ the capability to sky rocket like this one could with such a minimal investment.

[KCRfan1]

You realize that we all may be in a rush to buy this issue now.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I did not realize they grade the magazines now.

Only 499.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Sports-Illustrated-2nd-1954-Newsstand-CGC-8-5-Topps-Mantle-Card-Only-Sold-Here-/231767662267?hash=item35f66ddebb:g:CPQAAOSwymxVQ7B j

[begsu1013]

You realize that we all may be in a rush to buy this issue now.

that's why ive waited to post about it until i purchased the qty i was comfy with having! probably why i haven't pushed or inquired to psa about grading them just yet either!

;)

edit: and for any conspiracy theorists, don't worry. i wasn't posting to inflate the price. i hardly ever sell and you wont see any listed from me.

[Peter_Spaeth]

that's why ive waited to post about it until i purchased the qty i was comfy with having! probably why i haven't pushed or inquired to psa about grading them just yet either!

;)

Now he wants to drive up the market!! :D

[Peter_Spaeth]

PSA grades Swedish Rekord Pele and Clay cards that are just cut from the magazine cover. Oklahoma TToday Mantle too, I think. Might be thicker than these though?

[begsu1013]

i have an ok today card, but its graded so couldn't tell ya on that one. never touched it.

but they are thicker than the standard magazine/newspaper stock. also a lil glossier than a std magazine page.

again it is a 3 page fold out (9 cards per sheet) so it's not the standard stock of the rest of the mag.


here's that ok card and also an example of a hand-cut card that's graded but w/ the "hc" designation.

http://caimages.collectors.com/psaimages/26029/21333125/59mantle8ok.jpg

[Peter_Spaeth]

Oops, OT Mantle is NOT from the cover, it's from a sheet.

http://oct09.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=14305

[ls7plus]

some cards mentioned are underpriced in the book but if went up for sale would command serious money, For example what would a dice game bring in auction in this market i think it would bring in a boatload. as for 58 all star if anything it is overpriced as it is such an easy card to acquire compared to the other as cards.

Glyn makes an excellent point with regard to items so rare and significant (it's Mantle!) that they hardly ever come up for sale or auction--you can usually throw the book away for these cards. Once they and their rarity become known, there's a huge amount of pent-up demand.

Re the "58 All-Star, yes, it is quite common, but if Bob Costas keeps putting them in his wallet unprotected until they wear out, maybe they won't be!

Happy collecting, guys,

Larry

[ALR-bishop]

The 3 Topps Mantles I do not have are the 61 Dice, 66 Punch Out and 68 Disc. There are two board members who have the Dice card. Not sure about the 66 Punch Out or 68 Disc, but I have seen them. The Dice card has sold for a lot but well under high grade versions of the 52 card, which in my mind demonstrates the extremely high demand for that relatively easy to find card.

The Dice card is B&W and the 67 and 68 Discs are small non cards, and the 66 Punch out is a small head shot, but am surprised the 67 Stand Up, in either form ( mine is a proof), does not go for more money when and if it ever comes up, because it is a great looking "card"

[begsu1013]

al,

can you post pics of the items your are talking about?

[ALR-bishop]

The only scan I have is of my 67 Stand Up. I have both versions of the 67 Punch Out, but not the 66 ( or any examples). I have the 67 Disc ( on an uncut sheet), but not the 68. The only Dice card I have is a Kaline. Maybe Larry can post his 61 Mantle Dice. Not sure if he has the 66 Punch Out, but maybe

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img078.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img079-1.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img174.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/ToppsSheets004.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img333.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img519_zps15bdc840.jpg

[sflayank]

underpriced

[hcv123]

Attached find image of 66 punchout mentioned by Al- not mine - ridiculously rare! I owned a 1968 disc at one point a LONG time ago. Should have an image somewhere - not sure where right now. Also Jello box - undervalued imho.