View Full Version : "Back run" defined
Mighty Casey
11-16-2015, 12:53 PM
Might be a silly question... I'm considering a "back run" on a specific T206 card. Do I need to consider/include the various factory designations or would brand names only suffice?
Realizing this is likely just a matter of collector preference, I'm curious as to what others say.
Thanks
ullmandds
11-16-2015, 01:04 PM
as you've stated...this is a personal preference. if it is me...I'm getting all backs known to exist including any back/front variations including factory variations as my goal.
but again...this is just me!
Yeah, totally up to you. I know of some people who don't care about the different factory numbers, so they don't get all the Sweep Caps. Most people include all the factory numbers though. Some Sweet Caps are really tough to find. They can make back runs more fun because you're looking for a rare combination, but when you find it, you won't need to pay a huge premium.
It's up to you, but I always consider a back run to include Factory numbers. Only the Piedmont 42 will be expensive.
I also count Blank backs (if you are using T206resource.com as a guide, remember that they list the Blanks separate from the other back info).
I also include Brown/Yellow scraps, but I have a compulsive personality, so maybe you shouldn't be listening to my opinion. :D
ullmandds
11-16-2015, 01:32 PM
additionally...very short runs don't interest me in the least...like t206 SL'ers...where there are only 4-5 diff backs. My miller run will likely take me a lifetime to complete...if ever!
additionally...very short runs don't interest me in the least...like t206 SL'ers...where there are only 4-5 diff backs. My miller run will likely take me a lifetime to complete...if ever!
Or if you really want a short run, try a Demmitt or O'Hara St.L. They only come with Polar Bear backs. :D
Seriously Pete, good luck with the Big Glove run.
Harford20
11-16-2015, 01:53 PM
Or if you want a huge back run, pick one of the "super prints". I am only 15 different backs into the 23 or 24 (still some to be confirmed) known back variations for the Chance yellow portrait. Like Ullmandds, this is a lifetime project with the ones I still need.
Dave
ullmandds
11-16-2015, 02:09 PM
Or if you really want a short run, try a Demmitt or O'Hara St.L. They only come with Polar Bear backs. :D
Seriously Pete, good luck with the Big Glove run.
haha...nice sean...but a single card cannot be a run by definition!
trdcrdkid
11-16-2015, 02:17 PM
As others have said, it's totally up to you. When I first started collecting T206 backs in the early-to-mid 1990s, pretty much nobody paid attention to factory numbers. Even Piedmont Factory 42 didn't really command a premium, or maybe just a small one, as far as I know. So when I put together this page around 1994/95, I considered the Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, and Sovereign parts of my back collection to be complete at a 150, 350, and 460 of each:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/dkathman1/photo1.jpg
When I got back into T206 more seriously in the past year or two, factory numbers had become an important factor in most people's definition of a back collection (or back run of a single player), and I began to pay attention to them too. I looked through my Piedmont 460s from back in the day and found that I didn't have any Factory 42s, but I was able to pick one up from Ted Z at the National this year. Then a few months ago I did an inventory of my T206s by backs, including factory numbers, and found that I had all of the Sweet Caporal backs except for 460 factory 42, no overprint. Luckily I was able to find one almost immediately, and I didn't have to pay any kind of premium. (I just recently got another one, and didn't even realize that's what it was until I got the card in the mail and looked at it closely.)
Mighty Casey
11-16-2015, 03:44 PM
Thanks for all of the great ideas and conversation.
I can never stay very focused with any one part of my collection so this is all conjecture for me at this point. From what I understand, the toughest Bresnahan (portrait) back is a Brown Hindu. Otherwise, it would be pointless for me. With blank backs, various factories, etc... I suppose that might not necessarily be true. I really like the thought of finding a treasured card (for my specific collection) and not paying an exorbitant premium. (common back...yet different factory) That is the stuff collectors dream of.
I'm almost 50 and I have another 150 years of collecting planned.
ullmandds
11-16-2015, 03:54 PM
mark...i used to be a type collector...and part of the fun...for me...of doing a caramel/tobacco run is that it is basically type collecting...except with the same/similar fronts...which to me is infinitely exciting and holds my interest. Atleast until it's complete...then I will likely no longer be interested!!!!
Good luck whatever u decide.
Pat R
11-16-2015, 05:33 PM
As others have said, it's totally up to you. When I first started collecting T206 backs in the early-to-mid 1990s, pretty much nobody paid attention to factory numbers. Even Piedmont Factory 42 didn't really command a premium, or maybe just a small one, as far as I know. So when I put together this page around 1994/95, I considered the Piedmont, Sweet Caporal, and Sovereign parts of my back collection to be complete at a 150, 350, and 460 of each:
http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg98/dkathman1/photo1.jpg
When I got back into T206 more seriously in the past year or two, factory numbers had become an important factor in most people's definition of a back collection (or back run of a single player), and I began to pay attention to them too. I looked through my Piedmont 460s from back in the day and found that I didn't have any Factory 42s, but I was able to pick one up from Ted Z at the National this year. Then a few months ago I did an inventory of my T206s by backs, including factory numbers, and found that I had all of the Sweet Caporal backs except for 460 factory 42, no overprint. Luckily I was able to find one almost immediately, and I didn't have to pay any kind of premium. (I just recently got another one, and didn't even realize that's what it was until I got the card in the mail and looked at it closely.)
They look great in the binder like that David.
Is that a Brown Lenox?
sreader3
11-16-2015, 05:46 PM
I would tend to agree that "back run" includes different factories; otherwise it's just a "back BRAND run."
On the other hand, I probably wouldn't include blank backs and other scrap and print freaks e.g. upside down backs, etc. etc.
But to each his own.
Having been out of the hobby for 10 years, one of the revelations upon my return about the current vintage hobby is the strong interest, perhaps for some obsession, with T206 backs. I believe it was a marketing masterstroke by the tpg cos. to break out separate tobacco company reverses and start a population report on each player/back. It started a whole new level of interest among T206 collectors for the tougher reverses and a windfall, I guess, for grading cos. I can't even image what my Griffith batting PSA 7 Drum back, long gone, might be worth today. Another sleepless night.
xplainer
11-16-2015, 06:30 PM
I would tend to agree that "back run" includes different factories; otherwise it's just a "back BRAND run."
On the other hand, I probably wouldn't include blank backs and other scrap and print freaks e.g. upside down backs, etc. etc.
But to each his own.
I am a back collector and this is where I stand. I know I won't ever get them all. I've set my current goal to get to number 13 - American Beauty 460.
I currently have all four Piedmonts, all 9 Sweet Caporals, both Old Mills, all four Sovereigns, a Polar Bear, a Tolstoi and a Cycle 350.
But, don't just limit yourself to backs only. I also have other "projects" I'm working on. Team sets- Atlanta and Providence and Lavender. If you limit yourself, you'll find you are hunting, looking and getting nowhere on the backs. Unless you have money to spend.
That's just my opinion, but I've lived it and adjusted.
Best of luck. It is fun to collect T206's.
sreader3
11-16-2015, 07:18 PM
Having been out of the hobby for 10 years, one of the revelations upon my return about the current vintage hobby is the strong interest, perhaps for some obsession, with T206 backs. I believe it was a marketing masterstroke by the tpg cos. to break out separate tobacco company reverses and start a population report on each player/back. It started a whole new level of interest among T206 collectors for the tougher reverses and a windfall, I guess, for grading cos. I can't even image what my Griffith batting PSA 7 Drum back, long gone, might be worth today. Another sleepless night.
Actually, you have cause and effect backwards. The advanced T206 community started to appreciate back nuance, which led TPG kicking and screaming to its current posture. PSA didn't even include back brands on the flip until circa 2011.
ullmandds
11-16-2015, 07:25 PM
Actually, you have cause and effect backwards. The advanced T206 community started to appreciate back nuance, which led TPG kicking and screaming to its current posture. PSA didn't even include back brands on the flip until circa 2011.
Correct...the TPG'ers in general have been quite ignorant to the nuances of back collecting...even to this day
sreader3
11-16-2015, 07:30 PM
Correct...the TPG'ers in general have been quite ignorant to the nuances of back collecting...even to this day
Yep. It's a case of supply meeting existing demand, not supply creating its own demand (e.g. iPhone).
trdcrdkid
11-16-2015, 09:07 PM
They look great in the binder like that David.
Is that a Brown Lenox?
No, I wondered the same thing, but when I started a thread about it back in April, I was assured that both of my Lenoxes are black:
http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=204248
Jantz
11-16-2015, 10:23 PM
Thanks for all of the great ideas and conversation.
I can never stay very focused with any one part of my collection so this is all conjecture for me at this point. From what I understand, the toughest Bresnahan (portrait) back is a Brown Hindu. Otherwise, it would be pointless for me. With blank backs, various factories, etc... I suppose that might not necessarily be true. I really like the thought of finding a treasured card (for my specific collection) and not paying an exorbitant premium. (common back...yet different factory) That is the stuff collectors dream of.
I'm almost 50 and I have another 150 years of collecting planned.
Mark
Touching on your comment about staying focused, it would be easier for you to do a "brand" run than a "back" run as sreader3 has mentioned in post #13.
I would bet that you will find a Hindu back before you find all 5 different Sweet Caporal backs. Assuming you don't have some of the Sweet Caporal backs already, you will need some focus to find them all.
In the end, it all comes down to what you prefer.
Hope this helps
Jantz
Harford20
11-17-2015, 12:08 PM
Mighty Casey,
As Jantz just pointed out, for the Print Group 1 cards, like the Bresnahan Portrait, you will likely find the Brown Hindu well before all the Sweet Caporal backs.
BUT, even worse, you will find 5-6 Hindu backs before you find the Old Mill back. There was a low-grade Hindu that just sold last month; I would expect the Old Mill to come up only a few times a decade.
(Just from my experience with my Print Group 1 Lajoie Throwing back run).
Dave