1860s baseball team photograph (CDV)

[TNcollect]

I mistakenly posted this in the for sale forum. Don't know how to delete that posting, but here it is in the correct forum:

I am an antique photo collector and just got in this early 1860s baseball team carte de visite.

The center player has a bat and ball.

Based on the backmark (Warren, Cambridgeport, Mass) and type of photo, I would think that this cdv dates from about 1861- 1864.

I spent a good bit of time online researching Boston area teams, but didn't find a similar image.

I thought that someone on here might be of assistance.

Any/ all information or research suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks.

Scott

[Leon]

That is a fantastic cdv. Very early indeed. Others will be sure to help more but I wanted to say how neat it is.

[bgar3]

Really nice photo. If you have not checked out Lovett,s Old Boston Boys and the Games They Played, it may be helpful, since it covers the relevant time period and includes photos of Harvard and Lowell teams. None match up exactly, but you may find a player or two. Good luck

[TNcollect]

Really nice photo. If you have not checked out Lovett,s Old Boston Boys and the Games They Played, it may be helpful, since it covers the relevant time period and includes photos of Harvard and Lowell teams. None match up exactly, but you may find a player or two. Good luck

Thanks-- I will take a look when I get access to a copy of the book.

I would think the two TALL bookends may be a key to eventually identifying the team.

Thanks again.

Scott

[dwinters]

Wondering if those bookends are fraternal twins. Similar look and height.

[TNcollect]

I was able to identify the cdv-- it depicts an 1864 team from Phillips Academy in Andover.

The team was organized by a new student who had played on a Brooklyn Professional team. He might be the older gent in the center with the ball and bat.

Online link to identification:

http://digital.baseballjournal.com/nxtbooks/seamans/nebj_201503/index.php?startid=30#/30

Scott

[ullmandds]

great photo...

[GaryPassamonte]

That's a beauty. Could you post a scan of the reverse?

[TNcollect]

That's a beauty. Could you post a scan of the reverse?

Here is the backmark.

Scott

[GaryPassamonte]

Thanks. That mark is more elaborate than the other Warren identifiers I've seen.

[1880nonsports]

Neat photo. Gary about your last comment - do you think that in terms of a chronology in general that things like the photographers attribution/back stamps became more elaborate just as the mounts would become more embellished? It would seem that way to me. I had studied cabinet mounts a little when I collected images of women ballplayers but moved on before I got to the next class dealing with the studios and such.......

[TNcollect]

Thanks. That mark is more elaborate than the other Warren identifiers I've seen.

This type of backmark is fairly typical of Civil War era cdvs.

Were the photographer's markings that you saw on later photographs?

Scott

[TNcollect]

Neat photo. Gary about your last comment - do you think that in terms of a chronology in general that things like the photographers attribution/back stamps became more elaborate just as the mounts would become more embellished? It would seem that way to me. I had studied cabinet mounts a little when I collected images of women ballplayers but moved on before I got to the next class dealing with the studios and such.......

Actually, the backmarks tend to get more elaborate and larger as you get later in the 19th century.

The card itself is also a key indicator of era. Civil War era cards are on thinner stock, with square (vs. rounded) corners.

Scott

[1880nonsports]

one would think as the aesthetic appearance of the mounts evolved that the backmarks, lettering, typography would likely mirror such changes (evolution) and become more elaborate as a general rule.
I know Gary has a lot of experience at least in regard to the base ball cdv's and figured I'd ask as "good" knowledge is king :-) I had no question specific to the CDV shown although I'm happy to listen......

[TNcollect]

one would think as the aesthetic appearance of the mounts evolved that the backmarks, lettering, typography would likely mirror such changes (evolution) and become more elaborate as a general rule.
I know Gary has a lot of experience at least in regard to the base ball cdv's and figured I'd ask as "good" knowledge is king :-) I had no question specific to the CDV shown although I'm happy to listen......

I deal in antique photographs and handle a lot of antique images, so I feel fairly confident in dating images and can usually make a quick (and accurate) call. I am always willing to provide assistance in dating antique photographs.

BTW I just did a search on ebay and found this image dated 11 FEB 1865 that carries the SAME Warren backmark:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251214546838?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Scott

[GaryPassamonte]

There's no question the backmarks on cdvs became more elaborate as the 19th century progressed. Interestingly, the Ross Barnes cdv I have taken by Warren has a simple "Warren Cambridgeport Mass" marking situated diagonally on the reverse, which is less elaborate than the cdv that is the subject of this thread. This is an exception to the norm.
Also, based on the mount style and uniform style, this cdv is certainly dated to the early-mid 1860s.