Come on Rick, this is absurd.

[sbfinley]

I'll admit, I have stood up for this seller in the past when he gets ganged attacked about his business practices, but this is unacceptable. You and your employees have got to be able to read a flip.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/361397486574

[bnorth]

I'll admit, I have stood up for this seller in the past when he gets ganged attacked about his business practices, but this is unacceptable. You and your employees have got to be able to read a flip.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/361397486574

Not to worry IF the seller figures out they got screwed he has a return policy.LOL I love that excuse when they "accidently" mislabel auctions.

[mighty bombjack]

I don't see the issue. Has he fixed it since you posted, or am I just missing it?

[bnorth]

I don't see the issue. Has he fixed it since you posted, or am I just missing it?

It says PSA/DNA Auto. It is not an Auto card or PSA/DNA graded.

[sbfinley]

I don't see the issue. Has he fixed it since you posted, or am I just missing it?

I emailed him about the card, but no it has not been fixed yet. You and the flip are missing the most important thing relative to this card: PSA/DNA.

[mighty bombjack]

Yes, I just figured that out. The "Authentic" on the flip refers to the card, not the autograph, correct? I do think that Probstein needs to be an expert in this and advertise his wares correctly, but I think PSA is more to blame with this crap. They need to deal with this as well by being more explicit about what exactly they have authenticated.

It says PSA/DNA Auto. It is not an Auto card or PSA/DNA graded.

[bnorth]

I know nothing about autos but is the MJ auto real? Given the card is graded authentic to me that would mean the auto is fake.

Is this a type of scam where someone puts a fake auto on a card and gets the card graded authentic hoping someone will also think the auto is real?

[mighty bombjack]

For example, I think it is appropriate that they put "auto grade only" on blue flips that have a number grade so that we won't be fooled into thinking that the card itself is a "10" (I think grading autographs is pretty stupid, but at least they are being very clear). Ip (or forged) autos like this one need the same sort of distinction: "card only" in reference to the Authentic label.

Just my opinion.

[mighty bombjack]

I know nothing about autos but is the MJ auto real? Given the card is graded authentic to me that would mean the auto is fake.

Is this a type of scam where someone puts a fake auto on a card and gets the card graded authentic hoping someone will also think the auto is real?

I cannot speak to the authenticity of this auto or the intentions of the submitter of that card, but PSA's grading practices have opened the door for said scam. I doubt the bidders on this particular auction are aware that PSA has not authenticated that auto.

[sbfinley]

I know nothing about autos but is the MJ auto real? Given the card is graded authentic to me that would mean the auto is fake.

Is this a type of scam where someone puts a fake auto on a card and gets the card graded authentic hoping someone will also think the auto is real?

I've seen this attempted before, mostly with Jordan autos. I've never seen one so brazenly consigned to a major seller before, however. Either the scammer tried to push it through Probstein or the idiot who purchased it before consigned it and the card slipped through. I don't know who signed it, but I know the person who did is not named Michael Jordan.

[slidekellyslide]

PSA should stop slabbing cards with autos on them unless the auto is getting authenticated.

[Laxcat]

Why doesn't it have a MK qualifier?

[sbfinley]

Why doesn't it have a MK qualifier?

No numbered grade, so no need.

[mighty bombjack]

No numbered grade, so no need.

Which is really the original purpose of the "Authentic" designation, to ignore any alterations and simply state that this is the card that was issued by the manufacturer.

[mighty bombjack]

PSA should stop slabbing cards with autos on them unless the auto is getting authenticated.

I agree with your general premise here, but it raises questions about whether any writing at all would constitute an "auto" (not to mention that PSA wouldn't consider the option because it would cut into the bottom line). I think th middle ground is to make what has been authenticated MUCH clearer on the flip itself.

[sbfinley]

I agree with your general premise here, but it raises questions about whether any writing at all would constitute an "auto" (not to mention that PSA wouldn't consider the option because it would cut into the bottom line). I think th middle ground is to make what has been authenticated MUCH clearer on the flip itself.

Not defending PSA because it's a valid question raised, but if you are in the market for a signature like this you have got to know what you are shopping for. If you are a major seller of a card like this you have absolutely got to being able to read a flip and know the difference. Period.

[Laxcat]

It seems to me that the sole intent of the the person that got this card "authenticated" was to swindle someone out of their money.

[mighty bombjack]

Not defending PSA because it's a valid question raised, but if you are in the market for a signature like this you have got to know what you are shopping for. If you are a major seller of a card like this you have absolutely got to being able to read a flip and know the difference. Period.

I agree with you on all counts. People need to educate themselves to be sure (if everyone did this properly we wouldn't have or need TPAs for autographs, but that's a pipe dream), and you are correct to start this thread. Sellers need to represent (and therefore, obviously, know) what they are selling accurately. Stating these facts isn't defending PSA, I just wanted to point out that they could do a lot (by actually doing very little) to dispel this issue.

[mighty bombjack]

It seems to me that the sole intent of the the person that got this card "authenticated" was to swindle someone out of their money.

I think more and more people might go this route to try and move fakes, which sadly might be what has to happen for PSA to make their flips clearer. The red/blue flip distinction is notorious (just search the question and see how many times it has been asked by collectors on various message boards). While it does not say PSA/DNA anywhere on that flip, the giant AUTHENTIC clearly causes confusion about the scribbling on the face of that card (per the current auction price). To the OP's point, Probstein listing PSA/DNA in the title is poor practice and inexcusable.

[r2678]

I don't understand what's going on here. What's the difference between this Jordan card and this card that's the subject of another thread?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Topps-Johnny-Wyrostek-79-PSA-DNA-Authentic-HS67-/361386870379?rmvSB=true&%3BssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=0SiENcmqmaKwosyJY4JQWsgiYbk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Holders look the same. Both say just PSA and they're red bordered labels. Based just on the holder and label, how can one auto be good and the other bad?

[mighty bombjack]

I don't understand what's going on here. What's the difference between this Jordan card and this card that's the subject of another thread?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1953-Topps-Johnny-Wyrostek-79-PSA-DNA-Authentic-HS67-/361386870379?rmvSB=true&%3BssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=0SiENcmqmaKwosyJY4JQWsgiYbk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Holders look the same. Both say just PSA and they're red bordered labels. Based just on the holder and label, how can one auto be good and the other bad?

Very good question and again pointing to PSA's labeling leading to confusion. In the case of the card you link, I think both the card and auto have been authenticated. Where this one says "Phil Marks Coll." is where red flips that also have auto authentication will say "PSA/DNA." There is a PSA/DNA authentication number there, something missing from the Jordan card, but methinks this is confusing as hell.

[bnorth]

$240.50 shipped. Looks like everybody but the new owner did amazingly well on that $17 card.:eek: http://www.ebay.com/itm/2001-UD-Ovation-Michael-Jordan-Signed-1982-UNC-Floor-Patch-PSA-DNA-AUTO-HOF-/361397486574?rmvSB=true&nma=true&si=G%252Fxlg5i6q%252FSM%252FdRAq1oVXHJaHfk%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[sbfinley]

The auction did close and someone made a $250 mistake, but I did receive an email from Rick this morning stating that he was in contact with PSA regarding the card. Hopefully he doesn't ship until they get this right.

[Michael B]

We are all going to look like Papa Smurf if we wait for that response. He was just placating you. Earlier this year I notified him that the Bill Russell index card he had listed under basketball autographs was the baseball player and not the basketball player. His response: 'Thank you for letting me know' or some such dribble. Of course someone paid well over $70.00 for a $1.00, at best, signature. The listing merely said a Bill Russell index card, but the placement certainly played a role in the bidding.

[Taxman]

Is it possible the outside of the case is signed?

[bnorth]

We are all going to look like Papa Smurf if we wait for that response. He was just placating you. Earlier this year I notified him that the Bill Russell index card he had listed under basketball autographs was the baseball player and not the basketball player. His response: 'Thank you for letting me know' or some such dribble. Of course someone paid well over $70.00 for a $1.00, at best, signature. The listing merely said a Bill Russell index card, but the placement certainly played a role in the bidding.

100% agree he was just placating you. I also remember the Bill Russell auto and the full unopened pack of smokes with a T206 inside that was opened and had 0 chance of having a T206 inside.

[Exhibitman]

I suspect confusion is one reason why PSA stopped using the red flips for PSA DNA. Stupidly, they now refuse to allow the red flips on the PSA DNA registry. So, even if you have a PSA DNA certified autograph, you can't drop it into a registry set if it has the red flip. Or that's what they told me.

[sbfinley]

Edited to clarify something first.


Edit 2: I've heard nothing about them discontinuing red DNA flips, can you link something confirming this?