1950 R423 and 1950 gum ball charms

[RColeman]

Is there any chance that the 1950s gum ball charms contain trimmed 1950 R423 cards? Is this already a known fact? I don't have enough examples to compare but many of the poses seem the same. Greenberg is spot on.

[RColeman]

I had time to load a couple examples. I want to thank Fred Y because the photo with multiple charms is from his previous link. The Ted Williams and Feller issues match up as well.

[autograf]

R423 Reese has him stretched out diving.....totally different. The Greenberg is somewhat the same way but the R423 has a black background but the charm has a white background. They look similar though.....

[RColeman]

Nice catch on the Greenberg background! It's amazing how I didn't even see it. It doesn't look like the sizes always match up either although many of the poses do. The Reese is the only one I've seen to not match so far. I definitely think there is a link to the two. It seems like the R423 set could help to ID any unknown charms.

[GoldenAge50s]

I think the gumball machine charms are made up of pics from different sources. For example, I believe most ALL of the Dodger charms are portraits, which may have been from team photo paks or something similar, but not from R423.

After many hours of study I am STILL not sure who this charm below is--can anyone match it up to R423 or another source? Some Sellers claim it to be Duke Snider, but I don't think so at all.

Here's a SIMILAR shot of "the Duke".

[Exhibitman]

Wes Westrum?

[toppcat]

Definitely not Duke.

There were pools of photos available for use by manufacturers and I suspect a few brokers handled those deals. You see this from the 20's through the 60's but especially after WW2. Berk-Ross and Bowman used some, many of the regionals did too back then.

[GoldenAge50s]

A very slight resemblance, but I don't think it's Wes as he was a right handed batter & the photo sure appears to be a lefty hitter

[Butch7999]

Can't see his hands, so there's some possibility that whoever he is, he's a righty hitter
striking a follow-through pose. The negative isn't flipped, though, as his shirt appears to button correctly.

The white-background Greenberg charm looks to be what's known in the graphics/printing trade as a drop-out --
the background is just painted out (Topps 1971-72 basketball is an example).

Fred, we're still waiting for your full essay on the charms!

[GoldenAge50s]

Long time, no chat!

I think I have recvd a tentative ID on the charm & am working on a picture search that will verify it. Stay tuned!

[Gr8Beldini]

I think the gumball machine charms are made up of pics from different sources. For example, I believe most ALL of the Dodger charms are portraits, which may have been from team photo paks or something similar, but not from R423.

After many hours of study I am STILL not sure who this charm below is--can anyone match it up to R423 or another source? Some Sellers claim it to be Duke Snider, but I don't think so at all.

Here's a SIMILAR shot of "the Duke".

Looks like a NY Giant. Could be a right randed batter following through. Resembles Sid Gordon much more than it does Duke.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-nVgY7Uj18io/UCV-vwGllMI/AAAAAAAAUdI/DnzM7XKPtWM/s640/Sid+Gordon+2.jpeg

[Harford20]

Although I have found nothing consistent, I have found several "matches" to the 1947 Bond Bread photos (as noted by the Williams, Kiner, and Feller below).

Dave

[Harford20]

Also, I think the comments regarding the Dodgers players may be spot on, as I think the Furillo charm photo comes from one of the Dodgers Team Photo Packs of the late 40's. Also I feel the Rizzuto photo may come from the Exhibits card.

Dave

[Exhibitman]

Well considering that the Bond cards and the Exhibits were basically rip offs of common publicity photos, it isn't surprising that the trinket makers would use them too.

Wasn't there an accumulation of these offered for auction a few years ago?

[GoldenAge50s]

I have been offered an ID (by a Board Member) of NY Giants outfielder ('42-'49) Willard Marshall which I believe may be our guy!

Being a '50's kid I always believed the charm pic looked familiar but could never click on who it was.

Altho I haven't found that exact pose I have some pics that lead me to believe Willard is the guy (& he's a lefty hitter). The last photo does it for me as the way he holds the bat is so close---Take a look & see what you think:

[GoldenAge50s]

Here's one more pic that may help the "ear ID" people.

[sflayank]

that doesnt look anything like him...my humble opinion

[GoldenAge50s]

I see the same dark eyebrows, same nose & the last pic shows similar sideburn. As for the ears, I'm not qualified to say but that last pic looks reasonably the same to me.

Do you have an ID idea Larry?

[sflayank]

not a giants uniform on the charm marshall 42-49
not a boston braves cap...marshall 50-
probably dodgers road uniform or red sox home uniform

[GoldenAge50s]

not a giants uniform on the charm marshall 42-49

Neckline looks the same to me, what's wrong w/ it?

Here's my original thread w/ other charms & ID's including Sid Gordon (For gr8beldini)

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=66836&highlight=charms

[sflayank]

2 stripes around the collar...ny giants only 1
fred y has them all right...but hes calling this one wally westlake....westlake was righty...could be a follow thru photo
but cant find a match....r423 bond exhibits

[GoldenAge50s]

I appreciate all the help & information so far, but would really like to hear more opinions & ideas as to who this player may be.

I'm certain that while he probably isn't a "big star" he is a player that we most likely know & have heard of. None of the known charms are of real obscure players w/ the lesser known names such as Ennis, Schmitz and Sid Gordon being good players in the late '40's & early '50's during the issue of these charms.

I know we can nail this guy down if we get a few more eyes to look at this thread & a few more suggestions.

[sflayank]

a young duke snider is still very possible

[GoldenAge50s]

Young or old, Duke's ears are waaaaay different for sure, (see Post 5) and I'm NOT "ear ID" proficient.

Keep the comments coming so we can figure this guy out for certain.

[sflayank]

Check out lot i just listed under bst

[glynparson]

Larry put up a terrific lot on the bst. Awesome lot of color variations etc.

[GoldenAge50s]

Tremendous collection Larry! That helps shine the light on the study I have made over the years!

The only one I have that is missing from your 19 is Joe DiMaggio, which would make the charm issue complete at 20 different players.

I have a Yogi pose that shows him w/ bat (which is likely a longer cropping of the common Berra head shot) and a couple of others that I believe to be fakes or home-made.

I am willing to say that the issue is totally complete at 20 subjects, w/ a bunch of color variations, cropping differences, and various shape charm holders.

Here is the DiMaggio, along w/ Gabby!

[sflayank]

dimaggio only have in rectangle form
also have boudreau friend westlake erskine
in octagonal also have lemon

[GoldenAge50s]

Larry--

I just sent you an EM re: the above charms.

[cincicards]

I forgot I had these:

206642

206643

206644

206645

206646

206647

206648

206649

206650

206651

206652

206653

206654

206680

206681

206682

206683

206687

[GoldenAge50s]

Randall---

Do you have ID's for all of them?

[sflayank]

definitely some players there i dont have and a 2nd ruth pose

[ALR-bishop]

Great thread

[hoot-owl]

wondering if anyone can post some double header charms (for that matter, does anyone have a Konstanty double header that they might be willing to part with?).

The color variations on the BST are unbelievable (but then a lot of the stuff Larry has falls into that category).

[cincicards]

Here is the original packaging:

206684

[Harford20]

Well, most of my charms all represent Ted Williams. The black variation on the end is a different photo in a metal charm. The 3 clear ones at the bottom are dual-sided; two with Andy Pafko on the back and one with the Babe (see the photo below this post--I have been struggling with the photos tonight).

With all these other posts, I now realize there are several more Ted variations the I am missing. Thanks all for increasing the size of my "want list".

Dave

[Harford20]

Here are the back photos

[GoldenAge50s]

Thanks for posting your "stash".

Those charms w/ the little black "cut line" on the rt side seem to be of paper stock w/ dot pattern rather than actual Kodak (or the like) photo paper like the majority of these charms, so probably came from a different charm maker. They all ended up in gumball machines around the country.

[GoldenAge50s]

Here is the original packaging:

206684


Randall--

Original packaging for what?

Also, see my Post 31

[cincicards]

Randall--

Original packaging for what?

Also, see my Post 31

About five years ago I BIN'd the package in question on Ebay, the package contained thirty baseball and about forty non sport charms (square). Actually I did not realize it was the original packaging until after I ripped it open. Also, nothing to add as far as ID's go.

[GoldenAge50s]

One more bump to see if anyone can help ID the player in Post 5 & Post 15.

Do you have any suggestions at all ?

Do you think it is Willard Marshall?

Sure would appreciate some more opinions, somebody here on N54 knows who it is!