View Full Version : How to crack a $50,000 to $100,000 card.....
You crack it very carefully.......
This is no longer on a pop report.
7nohitter
09-13-2015, 07:55 AM
I've cracked plenty of cards, the most valuable being a '57 Brooks Robinson.....but for a card like this I would probably have to hire a brain surgeon for his/her steady hands!
frankbmd
09-13-2015, 08:23 AM
I've cracked plenty of cards, the most valuable being a '57 Brooks Robinson.....but for a card like this I would probably have to hire a brain surgeon for his/her steady hands!
Would a smart surgeon be good enough?;)
vintagesportscollector
09-13-2015, 08:37 AM
Would a smart surgeon be good enough?;)
Probably...do you know one?:D
Gobucsmagic74
09-13-2015, 08:44 AM
Balls of steel...
Jeffrompa
09-13-2015, 08:47 AM
Yikes !
A good friend said I shouldn't leave this information out, so here is the update too. It will be physically given to the NYPL next week, when someone from the NYPL comes to Dallas for it, but the decision has been made for a while.. Thanks to everyone who had patience.
jcmtiger
09-13-2015, 09:17 AM
Leon, in that 5th picture, the screwdriver looks very close to the card. :eek:
Has to be tough to give that card up
Joe
Jeffrompa
09-13-2015, 09:50 AM
Doing the right thing . Should be on the front page of the New York Times .
pclpads
09-13-2015, 10:22 AM
For future ref - that is an industrial strength sd and way to big for the project. It invites disaster to the card and your other hand / wrist if it slips. I have always successfully used about a 4" sd which has a much thinner blade on SGC slabs, and so, much easier to pop a top corner seam. Then gradually work a slightly larger sd along the top seam, leaving the first sd in place. Never have had to use snips on SGC slabs, since, like the older PSA slabs, they are fairly easy to open.
steve B
09-13-2015, 10:45 AM
I'm assuming they wanted it unslabbed to save space?
Steve B
mybuddyinc
09-13-2015, 10:52 AM
I'm assuming they wanted it unslabbed to save space?
Steve B
Could also save on mailing cost ---- penny sleeve and a 50 cent stamp :)
RaidonCollects
09-13-2015, 11:33 AM
Wow, that card is spectacular, I wondered why the card wasn't listed online when your auction started.
But, that is extremely kind of you Leon. I just read about how it was stolen, and sold on by Mastro (good ol' Mastro :(), but you deserve a medal for being so generous, and I think Al Spalding would be proud of you.
Best Wishes,
~Owen :)
kmac32
09-13-2015, 11:41 AM
I would have left it slabbed just to protect the card from the elements. As surgeon, I always error on the side of safety
I would have left it slabbed just to protect the card from the elements. As surgeon, I always error on the side of safety
There were multiple reasons for not leaving it in the slab. It was graded around 15 yrs ago when grading (especially of these) was more subjective. It didn't belong in a 50 holder by today's standards. Rest assured it is currently in an archival sleeve in an archival top loader, cushioned against one piece of a 3 inch thick screwdown holder and inside not 1 but 2 individually sealed, very heavy duty, water tight baggies. It is being hand delivered. I am not sure how it could be more safe.
As for cracking it, I had multipe devices handy but chose the one that I felt was the most steady for me to use. The picture where the screwdriver is above the card, makes it seem it could be touching it, but it isn't. The card is lower and rests inside and slightly below the gasket. From that point the srcrewdriver went backwards and out of the holder. Then I just flipped the edges and it popped exremely easily. No harm done and the card was never touched (as far as I could tell).
travrosty
09-13-2015, 12:04 PM
too funny.
begsu1013
09-13-2015, 12:04 PM
A good friend said I shouldn't leave this information out, so here is the update too. It will be physically given to the NYPL next week, when someone from the NYPL comes to Dallas for it, but the decision has been made for a while.. Thanks to everyone who had patience.
good shit, leon. seriously!
not sure the intricate details of how it all went down and obviously there was some reluctance in the beginning stages, but this was the absolute right outcome in my eye. the selling of the collection for daughters college was the reason for the liquidation, but in my opinion what you did will teach her above and beyond what **ANY** institution could do.
great fn job!
btw: there's a song by loudin wainwright entitled: "that's my daughter in the water". if ya don't know it, give it a listen...
travrosty
09-13-2015, 12:05 PM
Wow, that card is spectacular, I wondered why the card wasn't listed online when your auction started.
But, that is extremely kind of you Leon. I just read about how it was stolen, and sold on by Mastro (good ol' Mastro :(), but you deserve a medal for being so generous, and I think Al Spalding would be proud of you.
Best Wishes,
~Owen :)
this is rewriting history.
glchen
09-13-2015, 12:07 PM
Doing the right thing . Should be on the front page of the New York Times .
+1, I don't think a lot of people would have the gumption to do this for such a high dollar card. If this were me, to be honest, I'd probably see if it were possible for me to legally wriggle out of this since the buyer didn't know it was stolen when purchased. Definitely huge kudos.
travrosty
09-13-2015, 12:09 PM
+1, I don't think a lot of people would have the gumption to do this for such a high dollar card. If this were me, to be honest, I'd probably see if it were possible for me to legally wriggle out of this since the buyer didn't know it was stolen when purchased. Definitely huge kudos.
gary, he did, but came to the conclusion that it would be best to return it, only after negotiating with sgc to have it re-holdered from a 4 to a 2 holder, leon did sgc pay the difference under their guarantee? Otherwise, why bother negotiating having it re-graded and why even bother cracking it out of the holder at all. you would just send it in, in the holder it was in already.
Peter_Spaeth
09-13-2015, 12:12 PM
good shit, leon. seriously!
not sure the intricate details of how it all went down and obviously there was some reluctance in the beginning stages, but this was the absolute right outcome in my eye. the selling of the collection for daughters college was the reason for the liquidation, but in my opinion what you did will teach her above and beyond what **ANY** institution could do.
great fn job!
btw: there's a song by loudin wainwright entitled: "that's my daughter in the water". if ya don't know it, give it a listen...
Is it better than Dead Skunk in the Middle of the Road? :eek:
gary, he did, but came to the conclusion that it would be best to return it, only after negotiating with sgc to have it re-holdered from a 4 to a 2 holder, leon did sgc pay the difference under their guarantee? Otherwise, why bother negotiating having it re-graded and why even bother cracking it out of the holder at all. you would just send it in, in the holder it was in already.
It will be given to the NYPL raw as stated above, well secured and protected.
xplainer
09-13-2015, 01:22 PM
Well done Leon.
Very glad to hear this story end this way. :)
mark evans
09-13-2015, 01:37 PM
Leon...a real mensch.
Mark
pokerplyr80
09-13-2015, 03:16 PM
gary, he did, but came to the conclusion that it would be best to return it, only after negotiating with sgc to have it re-holdered from a 4 to a 2 holder, leon did sgc pay the difference under their guarantee? Otherwise, why bother negotiating having it re-graded and why even bother cracking it out of the holder at all. you would just send it in, in the holder it was in already.
Travis I'm sure that's the case and a fair resolution. Hopefully Leon got his original investment back, and perhaps a little extra. The card is out of a holder it didn't belong in, and the library has their stolen property back.
Hopefully all who were so vocal in the previous thread will see that Leon simply needed some time to make a difficult decision and ultimately made the correct one.
You just need a butter knife for SGC cases. Stick it in the indent and wiggle back and forth until the case opens. Do it on all sides and take the top and bottom halves apart with your hands. Takes like 5 seconds once you get used to it, and more importantly, is very safe.
bnorth
09-13-2015, 03:54 PM
You just need a butter knife for SGC cases. Stick it in the indent and wiggle back and forth until the case opens. Do it on all sides and take the top and bottom halves apart with your hands. Takes like 5 seconds once you get used to it, and more importantly, is very safe.
+1 I use a vegetable knife and it takes about 5 seconds at the most.
travrosty
09-13-2015, 04:02 PM
Travis I'm sure that's the case and a fair resolution. Hopefully Leon got his original investment back, and perhaps a little extra. The card is out of a holder it didn't belong in, and the library has their stolen property back.
Hopefully all who were so vocal in the previous thread will see that Leon simply needed some time to make a difficult decision and ultimately made the correct one.
only if he was going to get paid for it,
why was the card put in the heritage auction at the sgc grade it was in, a 4, wasnt the ink marks on the back obvious?
why not reholder it in its correct grade BEFORE trying to auction it off?
wouldnt that be the right thing to do as well?
I am hard pressed to believe Leon doesn't know the difference in card grades and what constitutes ink mark and the consequences of ink marks on the back as pertaining to the grade?
The library doesnt care what holder the card is in. The decision wasnt difficult, it was easy,
Getting paid for the card was the difficult part. if only all the people that had to make difficult (but the right) decisions but werent paid for them could be so lucky.
Peter_Spaeth
09-13-2015, 04:11 PM
Travis I'm sure that's the case and a fair resolution. Hopefully Leon got his original investment back, and perhaps a little extra. The card is out of a holder it didn't belong in, and the library has their stolen property back.
Hopefully all who were so vocal in the previous thread will see that Leon simply needed some time to make a difficult decision and ultimately made the correct one.
You are "sure that's the case" based on what?? Leon did not buy the card as a 50, he bought it raw and submitted it. So there is no question here of SGC compensating him.
pokerplyr80
09-13-2015, 04:30 PM
You are "sure that's the case" based on what?? Leon did not buy the card as a 50, he bought it raw and submitted it. So there is no question here of SGC compensating him.
I assumed he was being compensated by SGC, otherwise why remove it from the holder? "I'm sure that's the case" was more a figure of speech rather than a declaration of 100% certainty, although I will still assume it's true until proven otherwise.
I did not realize he purchased the card raw.
Peter_Spaeth
09-13-2015, 04:38 PM
I assumed he was being compensated by SGC, otherwise why remove it from the holder? "I'm sure that's the case" was more a figure of speech rather than a declaration of 100% certainty, although I will still assume it's true until proven otherwise.
I did not realize he purchased the card raw.
You have no knowledge of the circumstances here. Enough said.
RichardSimon
09-13-2015, 04:41 PM
Probably...do you know one?:D
More than one.
travrosty
09-13-2015, 04:45 PM
It is in his best interest to put it at auction as a 4 when it can make him the most money, then when that option was dashed, it makes him the most money for him to drop it down to a 2, because I am sure he was outraged that sgc overgraded it and he demands satisfaction? this is what people dont like about the hobby. What say you leon?
It is in his best interest to put it at auction as a 4 when it can make him the most money, then when that option was dashed, it makes him the most money for him to drop it down to a 2, because I am sure he was outraged that sgc overgraded it and he demands satisfaction? this is what people dont like about the hobby. What say you leon?
I am not answering you because I don't think you are educated enough on the subject to debate it.
7nohitter
09-13-2015, 05:52 PM
"You know nothing Jon Snow"
gregr2
09-13-2015, 05:53 PM
I liked your first answer better Leon!! ;)
pokerplyr80
09-13-2015, 06:59 PM
You have no knowledge of the circumstances here. Enough said.
I have some knowledge of the circumstances but do not have all of the information. I have formed an opinion based on what I do know. If you know something I don't, perhaps you could share it with us so we can be as informed as you are.
Peter_Spaeth
09-13-2015, 07:32 PM
Don't let not knowing the key facts get in the way of a good opinion. You seem to do this time and again. I already told you, Leon bought the card raw, and SGC is not compensating him (nor is there any reason it should). What else would you like to know?
bnorth
09-13-2015, 07:49 PM
Don't let not knowing the key facts get in the way of a good opinion. You seem to do this time and again. I already told you, Leon bought the card raw, and SGC is not compensating him (nor is there any reason it should). What else would you like to know?
Since you seem to be an expert tell us the whole story.
clydepepper
09-13-2015, 07:55 PM
To quote the immortal Rodney King, "Can't we all just get along?"
Seriously, Guys - this kind of crap is ruining the forum...just drop it and get back to watching Djokovich v Federer.
.
:):):):):):):):):):)
.
.
pokerplyr80
09-13-2015, 08:03 PM
Don't let not knowing the key facts get in the way of a good opinion. You seem to do this time and again. I already told you, Leon bought the card raw, and SGC is not compensating him (nor is there any reason it should). What else would you like to know?
I suppose I get that from poker. I don't always have all of the information, but need to make decisions based on what I do know or believe. If you know he wasn't compensated then it appears I was incorrect in my assumption.
ls7plus
09-13-2015, 08:21 PM
I certainly do not know all of the facts, but it just seems to me like a wonderful, selfless thing to do! It's a pleasant relief from all those "it's all about me" people, of which there are far too many. Way to go, Leon!
Larry
dbrown
09-13-2015, 09:28 PM
Curious, was this known to have been taken, or was it part of the NYPL's infamous ephemera-discarding episode(s)?
Or just unknown how it left the library?
David
begsu1013
09-13-2015, 10:05 PM
it's most certainly known.
irishdenny
09-13-2015, 10:15 PM
At this point... I do believe that we know more about How T206's were produced then How this Bad Boy took a stroll from the NYPL.
Sir LeoN...
Through all the Threads of Hoopla, I fir one had crystal faith in You!
iN the end... Character, Integrity and just plain BeiN from Texas stood the Test!
And Luke is RiGHT...
However Luke, Can I watch Baseball in stead?
Tennis gives me a Headache ;)
The issue has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads. The search tool is your friend. The fact that it is being returned to the NYPL feels like the main point of the thread. Cracking the card is just an interesting and entertaining side note.
Some people are never satisified, but I am sure that matters little. In the end, a class move.
Huysmans
09-14-2015, 04:00 AM
At this point... I do believe that we know more about How T206's were produced then How this Bad Boy took a stroll from the NYPL.
Sir LeoN...
Through all the Threads of Hoopla, I fir one had crystal faith in You!
iN the end... Character, Integrity and just plain BeiN from Texas stood the Test!
And Luke is RiGHT...
However Luke, Can I watch Baseball in stead?
Tennis gives me a Headache ;)
Hailing from Texas has nothing to do with it.
I'm guessing people from other States have character and integrity as well.
travrosty
09-14-2015, 10:54 AM
The issue has been discussed ad nauseum in other threads. The search tool is your friend. The fact that it is being returned to the NYPL feels like the main point of the thread. Cracking the card is just an interesting and entertaining side note.
Some people are never satisified, but I am sure that matters little. In the end, a class move.
one sided discussion
japhi
09-14-2015, 11:16 AM
one sided discussion
Now that is funny. The threads on this have hardly been one sided, lots of members have been beating up on the owner of the forum about this card.
I don't have a strong opinion on this mess one way or the other, but I've been around bulletin boards/forums for 15 years and I've never seen a board owner allow the members to discuss as openly as this issue has been discussed. I mean look at your posts on this thread, you are adding nothing to the discussion other than negativity and your posts are allowed to remain.
You can argue the process but bottom line....the card is back with the rightful owner, and the only party that is out on this transaction (AFAIK) is Leon.
Jacker_ Cracks
09-14-2015, 01:28 PM
Now that is funny. The threads on this have hardly been one sided, lots of members have been beating up on the owner of the forum about this card.
I don't have a strong opinion on this mess one way or the other, but I've been around bulletin boards/forums for 15 years and I've never seen a board owner allow the members to discuss as openly as this issue has been discussed. I mean look at your posts on this thread, you are adding nothing to the discussion other than negativity and your posts are allowed to remain.
You can argue the process but bottom line....the card is back with the rightful owner, and the only party that is out on this transaction (AFAIK) is Leon.
+1 Time to stop with all the negativity!
rocarroll
09-14-2015, 01:35 PM
Wow. I can't believe how many people must have lost money on this deal with all the ill feelings. Didn't know so many were involved in this transaction.
travrosty
09-14-2015, 03:01 PM
a lot of people and the truth is hidden in all corners nary to see the light of day.
Bob Lemke
09-14-2015, 03:02 PM
Bugger the NYPL. They obviously are swimming in cash.
Why else would they fly someone to Dallas to pick up the card when it could be guaranteed safe, if not timely, delivery by Registered mail?
If Registered was good enough for the Hope Diamond . . .
jhs5120
09-14-2015, 03:07 PM
Would you be willing to share the details of the return Leon?
I'm curious if you were able to consider this a donation to the NYPL. Hopefully you were able to get something out of it (if only a couple tickets to their gala :) )
ALR-bishop
09-14-2015, 03:12 PM
a lot of people and the truth is hidden in all corners nary to see the light of day.
Jack Handey ? X Files ?
Did Leon send them the Hope Diamond too ? He is on a roll
travrosty
09-14-2015, 04:23 PM
Would you be willing to share the details of the return Leon?
I'm curious if you were able to consider this a donation to the NYPL. Hopefully you were able to get something out of it (if only a couple tickets to their gala :) )
i too would like to know the details, obviously busting out of the 4 holder gets sgc off of the hook forever, no one can ever return it for a guarantee payment of difference of grades. that has to be worth something to someone. Leon, you said it would now reside in a 2 holder, but you seem to be returning it to nypl ungraded, did you change your mind? and why? why even bother contacting sgc about a new grade if you were going to return it to the nypl? leverage? can you explain? why would you care what holder it's in now if you are giving it back? if it matters what holder or grade it is in now, why didn't it matter BEFORE you consigned it to heritage? why didn't it matter then? you didn't notice the ink marks on the back and compare them to the listed criteria that sgc uses to determine grade and figure out something must be wrong? but now you do?
bobfreedman
09-14-2015, 06:01 PM
i too would like to know the details, obviously busting out of the 4 holder gets sgc off of the hook forever, no one can ever return it for a guarantee payment of difference of grades. That has to be worth something to someone. Leon, you said it would now reside in a 2 holder, but you seem to be returning it to nypl ungraded, did you change your mind? And why? Why even bother contacting sgc about a new grade if you were going to return it to the nypl? Leverage? Can you explain? Why would you care what holder it's in now if you are giving it back? If it matters what holder or grade it is in now, why didn't it matter before you consigned it to heritage? Why didn't it matter then? You didn't notice the ink marks on the back and compare them to the listed criteria that sgc uses to determine grade and figure out something must be wrong? But now you do?
shut up!
travrosty
09-14-2015, 06:19 PM
shut up!
why, questions too tough?
whitehse
09-14-2015, 07:51 PM
why, questions too tough?
Because this crap is getting old. The mob with the pitchforks and torches demanded a return to the NYPL and they are getting what they want. Just let it go knowing that your mission is accomplished. No further details are needed.
Damn, it's like a whole pack of yappy dogs that will just not shut up.
gnaz01
09-14-2015, 08:01 PM
why, questions too tough?
No, but as stated, it's getting old. Should we all go over to HOS and do the same to your buddy Peter Nash??? Just let it go Travis!!
bnorth
09-14-2015, 08:02 PM
Because this crap is getting old. The mob with the pitchforks and torches demanded a return to the NYPL and they are getting what they want. Just let it go knowing that your mission is accomplished. No further details are needed.
Damn, it's like a whole pack of yappy dogs that will just not shut up.
Maybe if Leon would quit posting about it people would spot asking about it. The real whole story has to be very interesting.
gnaz01
09-14-2015, 08:04 PM
Maybe if Leon would quit posting about it people would spot asking about it. The real whole story has to be very interesting.
Interesting to whom, Ben? The folks that just want to gossip.........?
travrosty
09-14-2015, 08:07 PM
Interesting to whom, Ben? The folks that just want to gossip.........?
it wouldnt be gossip if we got to hear the whole story, the truth.
Jeffrompa
09-14-2015, 08:19 PM
Please humour us with your acumen .
chipperhank44
09-14-2015, 08:49 PM
i too would like to know the details, obviously busting out of the 4 holder gets sgc off of the hook forever, no one can ever return it for a guarantee payment of difference of grades. that has to be worth something to someone. Leon, you said it would now reside in a 2 holder, but you seem to be returning it to nypl ungraded, did you change your mind? and why? why even bother contacting sgc about a new grade if you were going to return it to the nypl? leverage? can you explain? why would you care what holder it's in now if you are giving it back? if it matters what holder or grade it is in now, why didn't it matter BEFORE you consigned it to heritage? why didn't it matter then? you didn't notice the ink marks on the back and compare them to the listed criteria that sgc uses to determine grade and figure out something must be wrong? but now you do?
I wish I cared about my own cards as much as Travis cares about Leon's cards.
travrosty
09-14-2015, 09:13 PM
I wish I cared about my own cards as much as Travis cares about Leon's cards.
it belongs to the nypl, thats the point.
wonkaticket
09-14-2015, 09:32 PM
If the card had never been listed for sale in the first place and we could turn back the clock a year or so when you were first made aware of the cards issues via the FBI. Then the above images and NYPL letter would have gone down as one of the most stand up things in the hobby ever.
However the convenient worded auction listing, the BS, the name calling, the long political PMs and the locking of threads. Render the above more of a bitter sweet last resort vs. that of a selfless act. That's really a shame.....
In the end it is a great thing that the property will be returned to the collection of the NYPL, ultimately the best possible outcome given the situation.
Cheers,
John
RCMcKenzie
09-15-2015, 12:43 AM
Any work of art or collectible stands a much better chance of making it to the next generation of folks if it is held by a collector, as opposed to a Museum or library... I hope they don't lose it again...
CobbvLajoie1910
09-15-2015, 04:02 AM
If the card had never been listed for sale in and we could turn back the clock a year or so when you were first made aware of the cards issues via the FBI. Then the above images and NYPL letter would have gone down as one of the most stand up things in the hobby ever.
However the convenient worded auction listing, the BS, the name calling, the long political PMs and the locking of threads. Render the above more of a bitter sweet last resort vs. that of a selfless act. That's really a shame.....
In the end it is a great thing that the property will be returned to the collection of the NYPL, ultimately the best possible outcome given the situation.
Cheers,
John
Spot on, John.
the-illini
09-15-2015, 09:11 AM
Interesting to whom, Ben? The folks that just want to gossip.........?
I for one would be interested in the full story of what occurred subsequent to the original revelation that the card was NYPL property that led to the card being returned.
Maybe that makes me gossipy - but I didn't start the thread.
oldjudge
09-15-2015, 10:08 AM
At the end of the day, a significant card, stolen long ago from the Spalding collection, is being returned to the Spalding collection. That is a good thing, something that doesn't often happen. Although every new thread provides the opportunity for those who have nothing meaningful to add about cards to gripe about something, this chapter of hobby history seems to have drawn to an end and people should move on.
Shoeless Moe
09-15-2015, 10:49 AM
I hope they send Bookman
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zePQavforA
bn2cardz
09-15-2015, 11:19 AM
I, too, am very upset with Leon. Why would he use rusted tools to break that card out. Brand new tools should have been bought and used. ;)
rocarroll
09-15-2015, 11:19 AM
In other news, there is a really cool Cobb with a Lenox background for sale over on the BST page. Its been on the down low but I thought I'd be the first to draw attention to it.
gnaz01
09-15-2015, 11:57 AM
In other news, there is a really cool Cobb with a Lenox background for sale over on the BST page. Its been on the down low but I thought I'd be the first to draw attention to it.
Now that's FUNNY!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
vintagesportscollector
09-15-2015, 02:46 PM
I hope they send Bookman url]
Paul, that is the best post in this thread...too funny.:p
ALR-bishop
09-15-2015, 03:00 PM
I, too, am very upset with Leon. Why would he use rusted tools to break that card out. Brand new tools should have been bought and used. ;)
And why would he not hire The Transporter to be sure it got back there safe and sound and without incident
7nohitter
09-15-2015, 06:48 PM
And why would he not hire The Transporter to be sure it got back there safe and sound and without incident
Excellent thought, Al!
mrkrab
09-16-2015, 09:17 AM
chea
slidekellyslide
09-16-2015, 10:19 AM
chea
Why do so many people edit out complete posts? Why not stand behind what you wrote?
pokerplyr80
09-16-2015, 07:34 PM
Interesting to whom, Ben? The folks that just want to gossip.........?
It wouldn't be just gossip if there's more to the story that hasn't been told and the rest of the facts were revealed.
I'm sure anyone who spends time chatting on a sports card forum would find this interesting regardless of the outcome or who's involved.
GehrigFan
09-18-2015, 08:43 AM
A good friend said I shouldn't leave this information out, so here is the update too. It will be physically given to the NYPL next week, when someone from the NYPL comes to Dallas for it, but the decision has been made for a while.. Thanks to everyone who had patience.
Very proud of you Leon. It's no easy task to stand up and bite the bullet on something that wasn't even your fault. You are top class, sir!
Mark