Brady Suspension Overturned

[RichardSimon]

The judge has ruled in favor of Tom Brady.

[Peter_Spaeth]

So much for that silliness.

[Joshchisox08]

The judge has ruled in favor of Tom Brady.

Maybe he "Blew" up the judge ehhhh ;)

[conor912]

In my morning grog I thought this thread was started by Richard Serman and almost choked on my coffee.

[yanks12025]

Lesson to children, this just proves cheating does win.

[packs]

Keep cheating Tom. Good example for your children.

[Peter_Spaeth]

is every lineman who gets away with an illegal hold a cheater?

[bigfish]

Lesson to children, this just proves cheating does win.



Really?

[autograf]

Good thing he cheated......Indianapolis would have REALLY been blown out since they scored less points in the first half with deflated balls...............

[ksabet]

is every lineman who gets away with an illegal hold a cheater?

#1

Our legal system isn't perfect but Goodell is far from ethical and there was no proof Brady cheated....this from a Bills fan

[egri]

This whole saga has reminded me of the scene from Band of Brothers where Sobel tried to court-martial Winters because Winters was 15 minutes late to an inspection that he didn't know the time had been moved (from 10 AM to 9:45). Long story short, Sobel lost his company command and was transferred out of the division, Winters went on to receive several medals, and West Point still studies one of his attacks today, 70 years after the fact.

[packs]

Knowingly altering the equipment to give yourself an advantage is cheating. That is much different than a lineman being called for a hold on a single play. If you think there's no proof, remember that Brady is the man who holds the football every play he's on the field for.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Knowingly altering the equipment to give yourself an advantage is cheating. That is much different than a lineman being called for a hold on a single play. If you think there's no proof, remember that Brady is the man who holds the football every play he's on the field for.

Did a single referee notice any difference in the game balls that supposedly had been altered to give an advantage? They handle them on every play too.

[packs]

Oh it's the refs fault Tom cheated. Come on, the texts between him and the equipment manager leave no doubt:

BRADY: "You good Jonny boy?"

"You doing good?"

JASTREMSKI: "Still nervous; so far so good though"

BRADY: "FYI...Dave (Patriots head equipment manager Dave Schoenfeld) will be picking your brain later about it. He's not accusing me, or anyone...trying to get to bottom of it. He knows it's unrealistic you did it yourself..."


Not to mention the guy destroyed his phone 4 months into an investigation at the precise moment he was asked for his phone.

[Econteachert205]

The judge did not exonerate Brady, rather he admonished the nfl's poor use of discipline not even in keeping with its wide authority under the cba. Brady's legacy was still greatly tarnished in the public and he was put through the legal wringer, I'd say "getting away with it" was less fun than one would imagine.

[DanP]

Ok, from a NY Giants fan. If you can't handle your team not winning or simply don't like the Patriots go ahead and continue with these ridiculous comments about how big a deal it was to deflate the footballs.

Did any of you ever look at the list of teams fined for cheating in 2015? How about the many past Super Bowl winners with players fined or suspended for using PED's? How about the Steelers teams from the 70's? I think that any person who's willing to think about this rationally without any bias or jealousy realizes that this was not that big deal.

Do you really believe that there's not a single player on the team you root for who doesn't cheat?

I get it, you're jealous of Tom Brady and the Patriots. Please stop embarrassing yourselves acting like if this happened to your favorite team you would feel the same way.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Dan exactly. It's an equipment violation, so de minimis that no referee even noticed any difference in the balls. Spare me the BS about the integrity of the game.

[packs]

If a player corked their bat you'd be saying they cheated. How is this any different? It's not integrity of the game, it's the integrity of an individual that is at issue. This guy should face consequences for what he did. No one is asking for his head, but it perfectly reasonable that he should be forced to sit out games.

[obcbobd]

Ok, from a NY Giants fan. If you can't handle your team not winning or simply don't like the Patriots go ahead and continue with these ridiculous comments about how big a deal it was to deflate the footballs.

Did any of you ever look at the list of teams fined for cheating in 2015? How about the many past Super Bowl winners with players fined or suspended for using PED's? How about the Steelers teams from the 70's? I think that any person who's willing to think about this rationally without any bias or jealousy realizes that this was not that big deal.

Do you really believe that there's not a single player on the team you root for who doesn't cheat?

I get it, you're jealous of Tom Brady and the Patriots. Please stop embarrassing yourselves acting like if this happened to your favorite team you would feel the same way.

+1

[Ladder7]

Good thing he cheated......Indianapolis would have REALLY been blown out since they scored less points in the first half with deflated balls...............

Awesome

[Peter_Spaeth]

If a player corked their bat you'd be saying they cheated. How is this any different? It's not integrity of the game, it's the integrity of an individual that is at issue. This guy should face consequences for what he did. No one is asking for his head, but it perfectly reasonable that he should be forced to sit out games.

Corked bat is objectively an advantage, no? Inflation or deflation is just a personal preference, as was clear from some QBs preferring them on the high side. And this was so trivial nobody even noticed.

[HRBAKER]

Whose balls are deflated now?

[jiw98]

whose balls are deflated now?

Now that's funny

[7nohitter]

The people who proclaim Brady a cheater are just bitter.

Unfortunately, Brady's name has been smeared, and people will believe conjecture instead of fact.

The fact that the Patriots have 15 years of solid, winning football has created a jealousy from fans around the country.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Corked bat is objectively an advantage, no? Inflation or deflation is just a personal preference, as was clear from some QBs preferring them on the high side. And this was so trivial nobody even noticed.


Corked bats are more detrimental than helpful. Corking a bat actually causes the ball to travel less distance compared to a solid whole bat. You lose that complete solid core with hollowing a bat. And yes, there is scientific research backing this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Runscott]

is every lineman who gets away with an illegal hold a cheater?

I agree - all forms of cheating should be allowed in the NFL, regardless of what it is. But then again, if my girlfriend asks me for a glass of apple juice, I give her orange juice and she has the nerve to complain.

[bxb]

Good for Brady.

Justice is served.

This BS has gone far enough.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah what Brady did is a big deal.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/12/10/nfl-head-injuries-illegal-hits_n_4419573.html

[oldjudge]

The only thing I find objectionable is that Roger Goodell is still the commissioner of the NFL.

[Kenny Cole]

The only thing I find objectionable is that Roger Goodell is still the commissioner of the NFL.

+1.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The only thing I find objectionable is that Roger Goodell is still the commissioner of the NFL.

Has he done anything right? I mean seriously.

[Jay Wolt]

Has he done anything right? I mean seriously.
He's made the owners hundreds of millions of dollars on his watch.
To his bosses (the owners) that's all that counts.

[Kenny Cole]

Every time I watch him purse his lips and utter ridiculous platitudes about whatever the issue is, I throw up in my mouth a little bit. I absolutely despise him, even beyond Selig, which is saying a lot. But, as Jay mentioned, he is evidently making the owners money and that's where the rubber meets the road.

[Runscott]

Every time I watch him purse his lips and utter ridiculous platitudes about whatever the issue is, I throw up in my mouth a little bit. I absolutely despise him, even beyond Selig, which is saying a lot. But, as Jay mentioned, he is evidently making the owners money and that's where the rubber meets the road.

If all I knew was their behavior, and wasn't a big sports fan, I would get the two of them mixed up - Goodell has a one point advantage for being able to bullshit better in big settings. Basketball, as sorry as it is as a sport, at least has a decent commissioner.

[Kenny Cole]

Yeah Silver seems like a pretty decent guy. I could be wrong though. Kind of reminds me of the old quote, attributed to Groucho Marx among various others: "Sincerity is everything. Once you learn to fake that, the world is your oyster." I guess time will tell.

[Peter_Spaeth]

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/the-arrogance-of-roger-goodell-215731603.html

[kmac32]

Lesson to children, this just proves cheating does win.

that is what is wrong with society. When did cheating become okay? Guess it is okay if you win but not okay if you get caught or lose.

[freakhappy]

I believe he should at least be fined and maybe suspended two games or both, but not four...that's way excessive IMO. And I don't believe the people that are calling for a suspension, etc., are bitter, but rather just looking for some sort of punishment for Brady for doing something he shouldn't have. If Goodell would bring it down a notch, he could have disciplined Brady without trying to overdo it and be some sort of mighty dictator. I'm glad however, that the judge overtuned the initial ruling and called out Goodell in the process.

[wolf441]

Coming to a theater near you...

[packs]

If inflation or deflation is just a personal preference then why did the league set a rule that mandated the pressure of the football? The guy broke a rule. If you don't want to call it cheating, fine. But we should be able to agree what he did was in violation of league rules and a suspension seems fair to me.

[gnaz01]

If inflation or deflation is just a personal preference then why did the league set a rule that mandated the pressure of the football? The guy broke a rule. If you don't want to call it cheating, fine. But we should be able to agree what he did was in violation of league rules and a suspension seems fair to me.

I will say it AGAIN, what rule was he PROVEN to break?? This is the opportune word here: PROVEN in my opinion. The good thing is that here is the US, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty (lawyers chime in please :D)

[kcohen]

If inflation or deflation is just a personal preference then why did the league set a rule that mandated the pressure of the football? The guy broke a rule. If you don't want to call it cheating, fine. But we should be able to agree what he did was in violation of league rules and a suspension seems fair to me.


Even if he did something, of which I've seen no real proof, the league mandate for altering equipment is a fine, not suspension. If you choose to ignore basic facts, well ...... there's no law against jealously and envy of Brady's and the Patriots' success.

The real travesty here is the Goodell kangaroo court and the NFL's overreach. The judge obviously agreed to the extent of overturning a finding originally held within the framework of a CBA, which I understand they are normally very reluctant to do.

[packs]

Well the balls were all underinflated on the Patriots side, so isn't that proof that they were deflated?

Equipment managers trade texts between each other talking about Tom's preferred deflation and either deflating or inflating the balls to his liking. Isn't that proof?

Four months into an investigation Tom Brady destroys his cell phone at the precise time that he is asked to turn it over. You can call that circumstantial, but if there's smoke there's fire.

[gnaz01]

Well the balls were all underinflated on the Patriots side, so isn't that proof that they were deflated?

Equipment managers trade texts between each other talking about Tom's preferred deflation and either deflating or inflating the balls to his liking. Isn't that proof?

Four months into an investigation Tom Brady destroys his cell phone at the precise time that he is asked to turn it over. You can call that circumstantial, but if there's smoke there's fire.

Actually, it wasn't ALL of the footballs, only 11 of 12 :D And some of the Colts were as well.

And if I was married to Giselle Bundchen I assure you I wouldn't turn my cell phone over either :D

In the end, Roger Goodell is a joke of a commissioner, IMHO.

[kcohen]

No. First, hindsight showed that there was no reliable measurement metric. Second, Brady had been informed by Wells that there was no need for his phone in the investigation. Relevant transcripts were apparently provided. Who knows what sorts of information were on the phone that Brady wouldn't have wanted divulged to the TMZs of the world. Once again, feel free to ignore relevant facts. Fortunately for the sake of basic fairness, the judge did not.

[packs]

Right I always just decide to destroy my phone out of the blue when the court comes asking for it and the media has done nothing but talk about the damning texts that might be on it should it be turned over to the court.

How do you explain the equipment managers discussing their manipulation of the footballs to Tom's liking? Were they lying? Was that part of an elaborate set up months in the making for the championship game?

[rats60]

I will say it AGAIN, what rule was he PROVEN to break?? This is the opportune word here: PROVEN in my opinion. The good thing is that here is the US, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty (lawyers chime in please :D)

He was given his day in court and found guilty. You can choose to stick your head in the sand and ignore the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that he was proven guilty.

Numerous quarterbacks have come out and said that there is no doubt in their minds that he was involved. Yesterday, it was Fran Tarkenton. QBs are the ones who dictate how the balls are prepared. I guess you think that Brady is unique and has nothing to do with how the Pats prepare their balls. If that was the case, then why did he lobby the NFL to change the rule allowing visiting teams to prepare their own balls?

[gnaz01]

He was given his day in court and found guilty. You can choose to stick your head in the sand and ignore the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that he was proven guilty.

Numerous quarterbacks have come out and said that there is no doubt in their minds that he was involved. Yesterday, it was Fran Tarkenton. QBs are the ones who dictate how the balls are prepared. I guess you think that Brady is unique and has nothing to do with how the Pats prepare their balls. If that was the case, then why did he lobby the NFL to change the rule allowing visiting teams to prepare their own balls?

I'll say it again, he was never PROVEN guilty, it was stated he was guilty. HUGE difference!!

[packs]

Huge difference when you want there to be one. No difference at all when someone is sentenced to jail time for something they didn't do.

[egri]

My kind of restaurant: http://www.foxsports.com/buzzer/story/tom-brady-deflategate-dunkin-donuts-judge-richard-berman-090315

[kcohen]

He was given his day in court and found guilty. You can choose to stick your head in the sand and ignore the overwhelming circumstantial evidence, but that doesn't change the fact that he was proven guilty.

Numerous quarterbacks have come out and said that there is no doubt in their minds that he was involved. Yesterday, it was Fran Tarkenton. QBs are the ones who dictate how the balls are prepared. I guess you think that Brady is unique and has nothing to do with how the Pats prepare their balls. If that was the case, then why did he lobby the NFL to change the rule allowing visiting teams to prepare their own balls?

In what court would that be where he was proven guilty? Unless you're speaking of the NFL kangaroo court, I have no idea what you're talking about. And that "court" offered no real proof. They believed him to be "generally aware" that something was going on. By that squishy criterion, you should be criminally liable when you are "generally aware" that illegal drugs are being sold on your the block.

[Runscott]

...
The real travesty here is the Goodell kangaroo court and the NFL's overreach. The judge obviously agreed to the extent of overturning a finding originally held within the framework of a CBA, which I understand they are normally very reluctant to do.

Goodell has had his rulings overturned regarding Rice, Peterson and now Brady. I agree with the "overreach" in the first two rulings, but I think it's perfectly within the NFL's rights to make decisions like the one regarding Brady. They might have screwed it up, but I think if you are going to let the courts pop in to overrule things that are related ONLY to the sport that the commissioner is responsible for (which the Rice and Peterson things were not), then you've opened the doors for all sorts of things;i.e-any time ANY fine or punishment is imposed in ANY sport, we're off to court. If a commissioner can't do his job, just get rid of him.

[rats60]

I'll say it again, he was never PROVEN guilty, it was stated he was guilty. HUGE difference!!

That is your OPINION, not fact. HUGE difference.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Goodell has had his rulings overturned regarding Rice, Peterson and now Brady. I agree with the "overreach" in the first two rulings, but I think it's perfectly within the NFL's rights to make decisions like the one regarding Brady. They might have screwed it up, but I think if you are going to let the courts pop in to overrule things that are related ONLY to the sport that the commissioner is responsible for (which the Rice and Peterson things were not), then you've opened the doors for all sorts of things;i.e-any time ANY fine or punishment is imposed in ANY sport, we're off to court. If a commissioner can't do his job, just get rid of him.

What you "think" is "perfectly within the NFL's rights" does not reflect the legal standard of review of the Commissioner's decision, as properly articulated by the court.

Under the Federal Arbitration Act ("FAA''), "the validity of an award is subject to attack
only on those grounds listed in [9 U.S.C.] § 10, and the policy of the FAA requires that an award
be enforced unless one of those grounds is affirmatively shown to exist." Wall Street Assocs.
L.P. v. Becker Pari bas Inc., 27 F .3d 845, 849 (2d Cir. 1994). For example, FAA § I 0 provides
that the Court may vacate an arbitral award "where the arbitrators were guilty of ... refusing to
hear evidence pertinent and material to the controversy." 9 U.S.C. § I O(a)(3). The Court may
also vacate an arbitral award "where there was evident partiality ... " 9 U.S.C. § I O(a)(2).
A "principal question for the reviewing court is whether the arbitrator's award draws its
essence from the collective bargaining agreement, since the arbitrator is not free to merely
dispense his own brand of industrial justice." 187 Concourse Assocs. v. Fishman, 399 F.3d 524,
527 (2d Cir. 2005) (quoting Saint Marv Home, Inc. v. Serv. Emps. Int'l Union, Dist. 1199, 116
F.3d 41,44 (2d Cir. 1997)). "[A]s the proctor of the bar gain, the arbitrator's task is to effectuate
the intent of the parties. His source of authority is the collective-bargaining agreement, and he
must interpret and apply that agreement in accordance with the 'industrial common law of the
shop' and the various needs and desires of the parties." United States v. Int'l Bhd. of Teamsters,
954 F.2d 801, 809 (2d Cir. 1992) (quoting Alexander v. Gardner-Denver Co., 94 S. Ct. 1011,
1022 (1974)) (emphasis omitted).
It is the "law of the shop" to provide professional football players with advance notice of
prohibited conduct and potential discipline.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The essence of the opinion:

The Court is fully aware of the deference afforded to arbitral decisions, but, nevertheless,
concludes that the Award should be vacated. The Award is premised upon several significant
legal deficiencies, including (A) inadequate notice to Brady of both his potential discipline (fourgame
suspension) and his alleged misconduct; (B) denial of the opportunity for Brady to
examine one of two lead investigators, namely NFL Executive Vice President and General
Counsel JeffPash; and (C) denial of equal access to investigative files, including witness
interview notes.

[packs]

How do you explain the text messages between equipment manages directly referencing Tom's preference for under inflation? Doesn't that show that he directed the equipment managers to inflate balls to his liking, an inflation that is in violation of league rules?

I feel like we're arguing over whether or not OJ was guilty. It's so obvious what happened. The legal opinion is not as relevant as your eyes and ears.

[bigfish]

Packs,

I suggest you read legal briefs of Marbury vs Madison, the people vs Larry Flint, and the people vs life savers....

Then you might be more qualified to rule on this than Judge Berman / the other 3 lawyers that have weighed in.

Are you a Jets or Giants fan?

All in good fun...it might be time for you to fold.

cheers,

Patriots season ticket holder

[Peter_Spaeth]

The issue for the court was not whether Brady was guilty or not. It was that the suspension, and the process followed by Goodell, were not consistent with the collective bargaining agreement.

But inevitably, a technical decision like this is going to be completely mischaracterized.

[pokerplyr80]

The issue for the court was not whether Brady was guilty or not. It was that the suspension, and the process followed by Goodell, were not consistent with the collective bargaining agreement.

But inevitably, a technical decision like this is going to be completely mischaracterized.

This was my take as well. The suspension was overturned because the penalty applied for this infraction was unprecedented and there was no real evidence in the first place. The judge may well have believed Brady was involved but the NFL did not provide any proof of his involvement.

[Peter_Spaeth]

This was my take as well. The suspension was overturned because the penalty applied for this infraction was unprecedented and there was no real evidence in the first place. The judge may well have believed Brady was involved but the NFL did not provide any proof of his involvement.

No, as I just said, evidence or lack of evidence was not the issue. Read the excerpt I quoted summarizing the opinion. This was a technical, procedural decision, having nothing to do with guilt, innocence, or who had proved what.

[pokerplyr80]

No, as I just said, evidence or lack of evidence was not the issue. Read the excerpt I quoted summarizing the opinion. This was a technical, procedural decision, having nothing to do with guilt, innocence, or who had proved what.

Fair enough, I actually didn't read the entire thread. Obviously being a lawyer you can interpret the decision better than I can and I'm sure the process the NFL used to reach it's decision was the main reason they were overruled.

I also believe the lack of credible evidence and the fact that similar violations in other cases resulted in little or no punishment for the players involved factored in.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Fair enough, I actually didn't read the entire thread. Obviously being a lawyer you can interpret the decision better than I can and I'm sure the process the NFL used to reach it's decision was the main reason they were overruled.

I also believe the lack of credible evidence and the fact that similar violations in other cases resulted in little or no punishment for the players involved factored in.

And your basis for that belief is?

[Peter_Spaeth]

..

[steve B]

Thanks Peter for making the legal end of things as clear as possible for those of us who aren't lawyers. We may not like what we hear, but at least there's that bit of translation to something we can understand.

Steve B

[jhs5120]

Three things:

1. Brady obviously knew the balls were deflated, most reasonable people agree.
2. The ingenuity of purposely deflating the football to gain a competitive advantage should be celebrated, not punished.
3. Every team cheats, most more than the Patriots. www.yourteamcheats.com

[pokerplyr80]

And your basis for that belief is?

The questions the judge asked of the NFL during the hearings lead me to believe that he felt they were important issues and factored into his decision. I don't have any direct quotes, but it seemed to me he disagreed with their reasoning as well as having a problem with the procedural issues.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Thanks Peter for making the legal end of things as clear as possible for those of us who aren't lawyers. We may not like what we hear, but at least there's that bit of translation to something we can understand.

Steve B

Most people, in the media and otherwise, understandably are focused on the outcome of a legal case, not the reasoning which sometimes is very narrow and/or technical.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The questions the judge asked of the NFL during the hearings lead me to believe that he felt they were important issues and factored into his decision. I don't have any direct quotes, but it seemed to me he disagreed with their reasoning as well as having a problem with the procedural issues.

In the end you can only go by the language of the opinion.

[pokerplyr80]

In the end you can only go by the language of the opinion.

I will yield to your legal expertise on this one.

[kcohen]

How do you explain the text messages between equipment manages directly referencing Tom's preference for under inflation? Doesn't that show that he directed the equipment managers to inflate balls to his liking, an inflation that is in violation of league rules?

I feel like we're arguing over whether or not OJ was guilty. It's so obvious what happened. The legal opinion is not as relevant as your eyes and ears.

I don't think that your argument holds any water unless text messages to which you refer showed that Brady directed the equipment guys to inflate or deflate the balls beyond the regulation psi range? It's a far cry from having a preference, which most quarterbacks probably do have, to directing that something irregular be done to the footballs.

[yanks12025]

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

[yanks12025]

delete

[kcohen]

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

Anyone with a reasonable mind knows that they cannot know for sure what Brady did or didn't know.

[Peter_Spaeth]

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

They weren't fired, just suspended indefinitely without pay. :D

[DanP]

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

LOL... I'm assuming you're a Yankees fan. Where are the posts about the Yankees cheating (i.e Petitte, Arod, etc.)??

Let's face it, every team is cheating, some more than others. Cheating has probably been happening since the beginning of each sport. We accept it when our team wins and are critical of it when our team loses, especially to a team we hate (i.e. Patriots).

[egri]

In the end the Patriots still cheated. If they didn't, Robert Kraft would have fought the penalty and fine alittle hard and not fired the two employees(can't wait till one of them writes a book).

Tom Brady might have been given a pass in the courts because the NFL can run a investigation correctly. But people with a reasonable mind, know he knows he knew about what the ball boys were doing to the balls. They wouldn't mess with the ball without him knowing.

Also the way its reading lately, Tom and the talking horse(tosh.O joke) might not be married much longer.

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

[TUM301]

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

Nail meet hammer, right on the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ !

[Runscott]

Anyone with a reasonable mind knows that they cannot know for sure what Brady did or didn't know.

It was the same with the 1919 Black Sox. They went to court, won, were all smiles....then Landis dropped the bomb on them.

Brady got the bomb dropped on him by the commissioner before court, then had the commissioner overruled when it went to court.

Thanks, Peter, for sharing the details as to why this happened. Since Goodell was wrist-slapped by the courts for technical failings in his process, it seems like the next step is for Goodell (or any other commissioner) to simply go to court any time someone steps out of line...since Goodell isn't a court and can't be expected to follow exactly the same procedures when trying to administer disciplinary actions.

[Runscott]

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

Right, so no commissioner can administer ANY disciplinary actions fairly unless he does it through our legal system. Same should be true if a child disobeys his parents. If it doesn't go through our legal system, it doesn't count. Everyone's always right about everything, no matter what the level, and it should take a judge to determine they are wrong.

[nolemmings]

Kraft accepted the penalties "for the good of the NFL". He later said that was a mistake. Regardless of what you think about Brady, the fact remains that we are in a nation where the accused is innocent until proven guilty, and there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto. That you felt the need to insult his wife and drag their marriage into this tells me all I need to know about the merits (or lack thereof) of your case.

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

[Peter_Spaeth]

Right, so no commissioner can administer ANY disciplinary actions fairly unless he does it through our legal system. Same should be true if a child disobeys his parents. If it doesn't go through our legal system, it doesn't count. Everyone's always right about everything, no matter what the level, and it should take a judge to determine they are wrong.

Scott there is a collective bargaining agreement.

[kcohen]

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

So let the "Patriot haters" vent. Their whining and envy would sicken me if I cared. If it works for them that's cool. I suppose whining and envy are chicken soup for the soul.

[Peter_Spaeth]

While of course you're entitled to your opinion, the statement "there is no more proof of Brady's guilt than there is proof of life on Pluto" is utter B.S. Moreover, it is precisely over the top comments like that lead to the very great number of "Patriot haters" venting the way they do. This constant persecution complex sprinkled with the we did nothing wrong attitude sickens many, myself included. As noted, the case was "won" by the NFLPA if you will because of reasons that had essentially nothing to with the evidence and/or what was proved or not proved. Enjoy your victory, but expect to keep taking crap if you come here and tell us the Patriots are "innocent".

I think this was much ado about nothing, but not because of the lack of evidence against Brady. There was no smoking gun proving he directed anyone to do anything, but there was certainly strong circumstantial evidence, as set out in the report. He did not come across as particularly credible, to me.

[nolemmings]

So let the "Patriot haters" vent. Their whining and envy would sicken me if I cared. If it works for them that's cool. I suppose whining and envy are chicken soup for the soul.

Believe me, I have not an ounce of envy for the Patriots. But hey, keep drinking that Kool Aid.

[kcohen]

Believe me, I have not an ounce of envy for the Patriots. But hey, keep drinking that Kool Aid.

And you keep drinking that chicken soup.

[Runscott]

Scott there is a collective bargaining agreement.

Peter - it's obvious, and I'm not being sarcastic, that you understand the legal implications of all of this better than the rest of us, who represent the average joe who is watching from the sidelines. So no need to patronize me - I appreciate your expertise.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter - it's obvious, and I'm not being sarcastic, that you understand the legal implications of all of this better than the rest of us, who represent the average joe who is watching from the sidelines. So no need to patronize me - I appreciate your expertise.

Who was patronizing? I was simply explaining that your analogy didn't hold under the circumstances.

[nolemmings]

I think this was much ado about nothing, but not because of the lack of evidence against Brady. There was no smoking gun proving he directed anyone to do anything, but there was certainly strong circumstantial evidence, as set out in the report. He did not come across as particularly credible, to me.

I don't have a real problem with the decision as stated. I also agree with your analysis other than perhaps the first clause in the first sentence. We can debate the effect or advantage of improperly inflated footballs and thus the rule governing them, but it appears to me it was much ado about something the Patriots thought important, and that they took noticeable lengths to try and avoid the rule. This was fairly orchestrated conduct that they clearly wanted kept hush hush. Why if it really makes no difference?

Also, while I agree there should be adequate notice of the potential penalty such that 4 games under these circumstances was excessive and violative of the CBA, it strains credulity to make the argument that gee I thought such infraction would only carry a $25K fine. You don't go to such lengths just to avoid such a minimal penalty. Brady and the Patriots, maybe others as well, would gladly and openly pay $25K for the opportunity to fine-tune the pressure on their footballs. Hell, do it on the sidelines and hand the check to the NFL on the spot--it's worth it. IMO they knew damn well that what they were doing was more than a token equipment violation. This case did/does have integrity of the game implications-do you really think that Goodell thought it a good idea to slap one of the league's more popular franchises and an even more popular player just for giggles, knowing that this crap storm would likely follow where even if he wins he's skewered? This is why I cannot agree that it is really much ado but nothing. Goodell handled it poorly--quelle surpris--but that doesn't mean there was nothing there or it wasn't worth protecting. There are no winners here.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't think Goodell necessarily thought the integrity of the game was on the line. I think he was worried that if he let it go, or imposed a token fine, he would be skewered for favoritism because the Patriots and their poster boy were involved. I think it was, in short, politics, not genuine concern. Or could be explained that way anyhow, as we can't know his subjective motivations.

[Runscott]

Who was patronizing? I was simply explaining that your analogy didn't hold under the circumstances.

I'm aware of the collective bargaining agreement (plus, you already mentioned it in your previous response to me) - to the average guy watching football (as I already mentioned), I think my analogy holds up perfectly. I'm not a lawyer, and most people aren't - that fact gets lost on this forum because the lawyers are the ones who talk the 'loudest' and who absolutely never back down.

[nolemmings]

I don't think Goodell necessarily thought the integrity of the game was on the line. I think he was worried that if he let it go, or imposed a token fine, he would be skewered for favoritism because the Patriots and their poster boy were involved. I think it was, in short, politics, not genuine concern. Or could be explained that way anyhow, as we can't know his subjective motivations.

That may be true on one or more levels Peter, at least I know I’ve heard that previously. But what does that say about the Patriots then? See, they knew or with any internal investigation would have learned that they in fact did the very type of thing the Commissioner was looking into–deflating footballs. How do they respond? They send their QB out to publicly deny that he knew anything about it–an interview not only unconvincing to anyone with at least a double-digit IQ but one universally panned as false by more than a dozen quarterbacks who played the position. Instead of going behind closed doors and trying to work out something with their so-called buddy Goodell they pretty pre-emptively spit in his face. So if indeed it was blown way out of proportion you can lay a good heap of blame for that on Kraft, Brady, et al.

[Peter_Spaeth]

That may be true on one or more levels Peter, at least I know I’ve heard that previously. But what does that say about the Patriots then? See, they knew or with any internal investigation would have learned that they in fact did the very type of thing the Commissioner was looking into–deflating footballs. How do they respond? They send their QB out to publicly deny that he knew anything about it–an interview not only unconvincing to anyone with at least a double-digit IQ but one universally panned as false by more than a dozen quarterbacks who played the position. Instead of going behind closed doors and trying to work out something with their so-called buddy Goodell they pretty pre-emptively spit in his face. So if indeed it was blown way out of proportion you can lay a good heap of blame for that on Kraft, Brady, et al.

Yeah but Kraft then backed way off by accepting the NFL's punishment... and Goodell didn't do his part to resolve the Brady piece of it.

[nolemmings]

Yeah but Kraft then backed way off by accepting the NFL's punishment... and Goodell didn't do his part to resolve the Brady piece of it.

Except that: 1) by then, the barndoor had been open far too long, again opened by the Patriots and again, due to their conduct, no one else's; 2) there was never any strict quid pro quo promised for Kraft's acceptance of the NFL punishment, certainly not one where it was agreed Brady could completely skate, especially as he was by far the worst actor in the whole matter; 3) by most and maybe all accounts Brady would not agree to even a single game suspension and would not even sign any acknowledgment of wrongdoing; and, 4) Kraft felt and feels no contrition at all, now complaining that he never should have agreed to the NFL punishment. Look at their conduct--they still claim they did nothing wrong and will not own up to anything. And one must be a hater or envious to find that disgusting?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Todd, turn on the TV next week and root for Pittsburgh. :D Oh wait, their quarterback had some issues too, maybe even a little more troubling. Damn. 6 game suspension, wasn't it?

[nolemmings]

Ah yes, played like a cornerback--deflection:)

[Kenny Cole]

Ah yes, played like a cornerback--deflection:)

Defense lawyer. Go figure. :D

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ah yes, played like a cornerback--deflection:)

Perspective, son, perspective. One frickin PSI of air let out of a ball. That no official noticed. That meant nothing -- see second half. This is chickenfeed. Integrity of the game, yeah yeah yeah.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Defense lawyer. Go figure. :D

Redirecting attention to what matters. :)

[Kenny Cole]

I certainly agree with the redirecting part. Its the rest of the statement I'm somewhat dubious about.

[nolemmings]

Defense lawyer. Go figure. :D

Bingo. Now followed by trivializing-- it was a only a little bitty boo boo, but by the way we won't even admit to it anyway, and we knew it really didn't matter when we tried our best to keep it under wraps.

Coming soon to a thread near you--rationalization. Everybody cheats, there are worse sinners out there, etc (but by the way we still won't even admit to it anyway, and we knew it really didn't matter when we tried our best to keep it under wraps).

[Peter_Spaeth]

Kidding aside, once Brady went out there immediately with a vigorous denial, the team was never going to throw him under the bus by admitting to even a trivial violation or saying anything undercutting Brady. You can't really have expected them to do that. I think Kraft hoped by not contesting things on the team end of things, the Brady piece would go away. Goodell wasn't buying into it, so it played out as it did. But it was still, in my opinion, pretty damn trivial.

[steve B]

There are a few things I keep coming back to in my mind.

The rule is written very poorly. It specifies a PSI range but no temperature. And the pressure does change with temperature.

The way the checking is done is also poor. Two apparently cheap and inaccurate gauges when they were checking at halftime, only one before the game. Gages that are typically off by 2% in the middle of the range. I didn't see in the report what the range was, but even if it was a 0-25 Psi range it could be off by .5 psi. http://www.dascosales.com/pressure-gauge-accuracy.php A guage with .1% accuracy can be had for around $250. every Team should have 2-3 of them, one for staff and at least one in the refs room. NOT some cheap guage provided by the ball manufacturer or Wal-Mart.

On page 15 of the report (linked below) they say the "experts" they hired determined that the gauges would have read consistently, which is obviously wrong if you look at the raw data on page 12. The colts balls measurements are consistent except for one, where the guage that reads higher for three balls reads lower for one. But for the Patriots balls that same guage reads lower than the other on all 11. So I'd say that makes all the rest of their analysis a bit suspect.

On one gage three of the four Colts balls checked were also under 12.5 - where's the punishment?

In the report they have texts discussing balls the were overinflated by the refs. Perhaps as high as 16 Psi. Also a violation of the rule, and by the officials. Again no punishment. Not even a "don't do that" memo.
Top of page 9 Here https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/2073728-ted-wells-report-deflategate.html

The rule only calls for a fine.

So evidence that contradicts the science, obtained with poor equipment, supporting a poorly written rule. Yep sounds entirely convincing and fair to me :confused:


Steve B

[Vintageclout]

I will say it AGAIN, what rule was he PROVEN to break?? This is the opportune word here: PROVEN in my opinion. The good thing is that here is the US, you are innocent until PROVEN guilty (lawyers chime in please :D)

Accurate point Greg, but I find it interesting that 8 "Blacksox" were exonerated in a US Court of Law, and then suspended for LIFE by Landis the following day? Too many inconsistencies with that theory.

JoeT.

[nolemmings]

Steve, while you blind yourself with science, do you forget that the two equipment guys effectively admitted to deflating the footballs and that Tom Brady liked 'em that way--- oh wait, he claims he didn't know anything about it, never mind.

So yes, going forward the rule will probably need to be changed or at least the protocols will, but as for what occurred last season, few people outside of Patriot Nation doubt that the deflation happened and that it was willful, not accidental or the result of some scientific anomaly. And legally, while the court decision ruled in favor of Brady for other reasons, there was sufficient evidence to sustain the findings.

My two cents for the Pats. Keep on denying you did anything wrong, own up to nothing, and let that be your battleground. Or admit that there was deflation going on, explain that it had no influence on the outcome, it was a minor violation, etc. Pick one. Not two. And if you pick number 1, don't be surprised or hurt when most of the rest of the NFL nation thinks you are full of crap.

[freakhappy]

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/09/04/65be48e99963cd3b31d8d6ba7310c092.jpg

[jhs5120]

Those text messages are enough proof for any reasonable person.

I have yet to meet a Patriots fan who has been able to explain them.

[drcy]

Early on I was convinced that Brady cheated-- and I'm not saying he didn't. However, the NFL/Goodell did so many kangaroo court things they deserve what they got. Too many list, but they intentionally leaked false information about the inflation rates and refused to correct it when it was pointed it out as incorrect (even the ESPN reporter who received the information said the information was false), they tried him on one offense but sentenced him on another, the penalty is inconsistent with any similar offense, they didn't allow Brady's lawyers to interview numerous key people, they said the Wells report was independent but it was edited by NFL's own lawyer (and didn't allow Brady's lawyer to cross examine that lawyer)-- and that's just scratching the surface of the dubious things the NFL things did. Most people still have the sense that Brady cheated in major part based on initial leaked PSI information that was long ago proven to be false, and probably intentionally leaked by the NFL to mislead.

The judge was basically saying the NFL has to clean up its procedures.

There is debate about whether or not Brady cheated (and he may have), but its appears unanimous in both camps that Goodell is a boob. He just seems out of his league or completely misguided in legal matters.

And this post is coming from a strong anti-cheating person and Green Bay Packers fan. If first time caught steroid users were banned for life and their stats erased from the books, that would be fine by me, and I early on felt that substantial penalty-- perhaps even loss of that close playoff game-- was warranted for illegally deflating balls. But the NFL mishandled the whole thing so thoroughly-- intentionally releasing false PSI rates then refusing to publicly correct it even when it was soofafter shown to be false, 'independent report' edited by their lawyer who they prevent from being interviewed, switching charges between conviction and sentencing, etc etc etc-- I now give the benefit of the doubt to Brady. In particular due to the intentionally false PSI rates that was the impetus for the whole uproar, I'm no longer even certain there is proof the balls were illegally deflated. Maybe they were, but anything the NFL says on the matter shouldn't be considered serious evidence.

[tsalem]

Early on I was convinced that Brady cheated-- and I'm not saying he didn't. However, the NFL/Goodell did so many kangaroo court things they deserve what they got. Too many list, but they intentionally leaked false information about the inflation rates and refused to correct it when it was pointed it out as incorrect (even the ESPN reporter who received the information said the information was false), they tried him on one offense but sentenced him on another, the penalty is inconsistent with any similar offense, they didn't allow Brady's lawyers to interview numerous key people, they said the Wells report was independent but it was edited by NFL's own lawyer (and didn't allow Brady's lawyer to cross examine that lawyer)-- and that's just scratching the surface of the dubious things the NFL things did. Most people still have the sense that Brady cheated in major part based on initial leaked PSI information that was long ago proven to be false, and probably intentionally leaked by the NFL to mislead.

The judge was basically saying the NFL has to clean up its procedures.

There is debate about whether or not Brady cheated (and he may have), but its appears unanimous in both camps that Goodell is a boob. He just seems out of his league or completely misguided in legal matters.

And this post is coming from a strong anti-cheating person and Green Bay Packers fan. If first time caught steroid users were banned for life and their stats erased from the books, that would be fine by me, and I early on felt that substantial penalty-- perhaps even loss of that close playoff game-- was warranted for illegally deflating balls. But the NFL mishandled the whole thing so thoroughly-- intentionally releasing false PSI rates then refusing to publicly correct it even when it was soofafter shown to be false, 'independent report' edited by their lawyer who they prevent from being interviewed, switching charges between conviction and sentencing, etc etc etc-- I now give the benefit of the doubt to Brady. In particular due to the intentionally false PSI rates that was the impetus for the whole uproar, I'm no longer even certain there is proof the balls were illegally deflated. Maybe they were, but anything the NFL says on the matter shouldn't be considered serious evidence.

Agree, however... "I'm no longer even certain there is proof the balls were illegally deflated" - There never was any proof.

Also, I have yet to hear any reason why 3 of the 4 balls used by the Colts were under inflated after being tested. I think we all know why now - gas law- however, this was never addressed.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

I won't offer my opinion, I will admit I'm ignorant on the matter compared to most of you. Have read stuff here and there.

But, what ever the reason, guilty or not, it just really saddens me about the state of the NFL, especially the last few years. I used to enjoy the NFL so much and loved it, I still do enjoy it, though on a smaller level and have a great fantasy league with close friends, but all of this crap turns me off of the game... Go Gophers!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WhenItWasAHobby]

There's a lot to be disgusted about this whole sordid mess. Did New England and Brady "beat the rap"? Only they know for sure, but they sure didn't behave like innocent victims either.

This issues of the "deflator" texts, the equipment guy taking the balls in the restroom for 90 seconds, allegedly sticky substances added to the balls and Brady's cell phone "accidentally" being destroyed among other things sure didn't help "the integrity of the game".

Ben Roethlinsberger was initially suspended 6 games when there were news reports of sexual assault. As it turns out, the reports were way overblown. The police thoroughly checked on the incident and nothing illegal happened. There was never a charge, an arrest, let alone a conviction. Yet, it was decided to reduce the suspension from 6 to 4 games because of a "perception issue" to maintain the integrity of the game and the NFL and the 4 game suspension went unchallenged.

There should have been subpoenas on the Brady text messages. The way it all played out was a joke. So, it was either a unfounded witch hunt or someone was breaking the rules and got away with it and nothing else will probably happen from this point on.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Agree, however... "I'm no longer even certain there is proof the balls were illegally deflated" - There never was any proof.

Also, I have yet to hear any reason why 3 of the 4 balls used by the Colts were under inflated after being tested. I think we all know why now - gas law- however, this was never addressed.

Never addressed? There's a 75 page expert report attached to the Wells Report, which also has an extensive discussion.

[laughlinfan]

This is probably much like arguing politics – I think both sides are fairly intractable. The Wells report addressed and completely understood the ideal gas law. Indy’s balls deflated due to the decrease in temperature, as did New England’s. The ideal gas law does not, however, ever dictate that New England’s balls, being initially inflated at a lower PSI, would decrease over twice as much as Indy’s. Lots of “if this gauge was used, and they waited x minutes, and the balls were damp…” and so on, to try to come up with a scenario to explain it, but as the Wells report considered, that was highly unlikely. But, as the Wells report also said, even throwing out the science, there was more than enough evidence to know what was going on.

Clearly, holding the NFL to a prosecutorial standard shows them lacking (time and time again!), but any reasonable person, after seeing the texts between Jastremski and McNally, knows that there was a longstanding effort to underinflate the balls, and Brady was aware. Was it deserving of a 4 game suspension? No. Do other teams do something similar? I would say yes. When the NFL got wind of what NE was doing, they should have just told them to knock it off. They brought all of this on themselves.

[steve B]

Never addressed? There's a 75 page expert report attached to the Wells Report, which also has an extensive discussion.

Do you have a link to that? The places I've found the Wells report don't include it. And it sounds like something I should read.


Steve B

[Peter_Spaeth]

Do you have a link to that? The places I've found the Wells report don't include it. And it sounds like something I should read.


Steve B

It's in the link you posted earlier, scroll down all the way.

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I can say as an engineer by profession that air is not an ideal gas, so if ideal gas calculations were used to render a conclusion, then the study was flawed.

But the real issue that got obscured was New England's and Brady's lack of cooperation during the investigation. Brady lawyered-up, and likely destroyed or withheld incriminating evidence and refused to give interviews when asked.

This article sums things up rather well about the rationale for the suspension and the fact that New England and Brady acted the way they did and received no punishment is deplorable and sets a very bad precedence against future rule-breakers and investigations.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000492259/article/tom-brady-patriots-punished-in-part-for-lack-of-cooperation

[drcy]

The Patriots did receive punishment. They lost a first round draft pick and $1 million.

[HOF Auto Rookies]

The Patriots did receive punishment. They lost a first round draft pick and $1 million.


In the end, they could have saved up to $5-$10 million if that draft pick became a bust. All planned! They just didn't like the crop of first round guys for the next draft [emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steve B]

Steve, while you blind yourself with science, do you forget that the two equipment guys effectively admitted to deflating the footballs and that Tom Brady liked 'em that way--- oh wait, he claims he didn't know anything about it, never mind.

So yes, going forward the rule will probably need to be changed or at least the protocols will, but as for what occurred last season, few people outside of Patriot Nation doubt that the deflation happened and that it was willful, not accidental or the result of some scientific anomaly. And legally, while the court decision ruled in favor of Brady for other reasons, there was sufficient evidence to sustain the findings.

My two cents for the Pats. Keep on denying you did anything wrong, own up to nothing, and let that be your battleground. Or admit that there was deflation going on, explain that it had no influence on the outcome, it was a minor violation, etc. Pick one. Not two. And if you pick number 1, don't be surprised or hurt when most of the rest of the NFL nation thinks you are full of crap.

The rule and protocols do need to be entirely redone. They've had the entire offseason and if they've redone anything at all they've kept it secret.

The ideal gas laws are just that predictable unchanging laws of science proven for a very long time. Certainly not what I'd call an "Anomaly"

The crappiness of the gauges used is also provable, even assuming they're 25 Psi Guages and not more generic tire pressure types with a larger range (And the probably were) 2% of 25 is .5 Psi, so in the first place there's no way to know they were actually at 12.5 because they could have been anywhere from 12-13 (Or 11.5 - 13.5 if it was a 0-50Psi guage.)

And the results of the "evidence" would be off by as much, since the same gauge was one of the ones used (And which the report states can't be found ....)

Where in the report does it say they admitted deflating the balls?
It does say that for the Jets game the refs overinflated them, to maybe 16 Psi.
Gee, I wonder why.



Ah, the history of "cheating"

Jets guy filming the pats practice signals from a disallowed spot - Removed from the stadium, problem solved.

Pats Guy doing exactly what the Jets guy was doing....Becomes a big deal.

Some question of inflation....
FORMER JETS guy leads the initial "investigation" into it making it a big deal.
http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/01/26/nfl-mike-kensil-deflategate
Oh the surprise. NOT!

NFL gets heavy handed trying to look good after two complete fiascos over punishment. NFL overreaches and gets caught. Ignores CBA, ignores their own rule, ignores a known problem with the balls http://www.barstoolsports.com/boston/supervisor-of-nfl-officials-says-footballs-lose-air-pressure-all-the-time-naturally/


The whole thing stinks on many levels, and not just from any one side either.

Steve B

[laughlinfan]

I find the Jets game situation very interesting, and no one has really tried to lay out what happened. I think the most plausible case was that the Pats submitted balls below the range initially, refs checked them, found them to be low, and just pumped some more air in them - way too much apparently. No other reason I can think of for the refs to pump them up (feel free to offer one!). From there, I suspect that McNally either let a little air out (per usual), but it was not enough, or maybe for some reason, McNally couldn't get his opportunity to deflate them. I can't think of any other reason that Brady would be upset with McNally, and why McNally (who, as official locker room attendant, remember, has NO responsibility to add or remove air from a football, EVER!) would be so defiantly angry for over a week(!) at Brady in turn.

Brady did testify that after that game, they instructed the refs to adjust the balls to exactly 12.5.

From the report:
"For example, on October 17, 2014, following a Thursday night game between the
Patriots and the New York Jets during which Tom Brady complained angrily
about the inflation level of the game balls, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the
following text messages:
McNally:

Tom sucks...im going make that next ball a f**kin balloon

Jastremski:

Talked to him last night. He actually brought you up and
said you must have a lot of stress trying to get them done...

Jastremski:

I told him it was. He was right though...

Jastremski:

I checked some of the balls this morn... The refs f**ked
us...a few of then were at almost 16

Jastremski:

They didnt recheck then after they put air in them

McNally:

F**k tom ...16 is nothing...wait till next sunday

Jastremski:

Omg! Spaz

On October 21, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following text
messages:
McNally:

Make sure you blow up the ball to look like a rugby ball so
tom can get used to it before sunday

Jastremski:

Omg

On October 23, 2014, three days before a Sunday game against the Chicago
Bears, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the following messages:
Jastremski:

Can‟t wait to give you your needle this week :)

McNally:

Fuck tom....make sure the pump is attached to the
needle.....f**kin watermelons coming

Jastremski:

So angry

McNally:

The only thing deflating sun..is his passing rating

The next day, October 24, 2014, Jastremski and McNally exchanged the
following messages:
Jastremski:

I have a big needle for u this week

McNally:

Better be surrounded by cash and newkicks....or its a rugby
sunday

McNally:

F**k tom

Jastremski:

Maybe u will have some nice size 11s in ur locker

McNally:

Tom must really be working your balls hard this week

On October 25, 2014, McNally and Jastremski exchanged the following
messages:
Jastremski:

Size 11?

Jastremski:

2 or 3X?

McNally:

Tom must really be on you

McNally:

11 0r 11 half......2x unless its tight fitting

Jastremski:

Nah. Hasn‟t even mentioned it, figured u should get
something since he gives u nothing"