52 Mantle -- Shilling?

[wheels56]

http://offer.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewBids&item=400892859288

Taken me 10 years to even think about bidding on something this expensive... to no avail. The bid activity at the end looks dicey. Thoughts?

Thanks.

[CW]

It can be hard to tell for sure, but this one does look fishy. It's quite possible the shill bidder went too far and actually won the item himself (low feedback, newly registered user with 90% of their bid activity with the seller). I wouldn't be surprised if we see this card offered once again in a future PWCC auction.

[nsaddict]

Not nearly as fishy as the Mothers Cookies Chuck Connors!

[MattyC]

In conversations with fellow collectors, I have learned some guys like to bid on eBay with newer, lower feedback accounts for two reasons-- it keeps people off the trail of what they are collecting, and it actually makes rival bidders think shilling might be going on, and thus might deter competition. Some guys might see the low feedback and think, "Ah: shilling, I'll stay away." All kinds of gamesmanship out there, I suppose. I personally just put in my best snipe and let the chips fall.

[pawpawdiv9]

buy from a auction house and no worrying about shillers, and turn your attention to snipers.

[D. Bergin]

buy from a auction house and no worrying about shillers, and turn your attention to snipers.



This sentiment always makes me chuckle. Auction house owners are in prison right now because of shilling. Others shill legally by including in their terms that they may use a house bidder, to bid up to a "hidden" reserve.

Auction houses are actually allowed to be less transparent then any Ebay auction. Ebay, even though they have hidden much of the information that used to be readily available, still allow bid patterns to be studied by everybody bidding on that auction.

Try calling an auction house and ask them to provide you with bid patterns, ID's, Bid history and retractions of everybody who bid on a particular item you did. I believe most would likely tell you to go take a hike.

[begsu1013]

In conversations with fellow collectors, I have learned some guys like to bid on eBay with newer, lower feedback accounts for two reasons-- it keeps people off the trail of what they are collecting, and it actually makes rival bidders think shilling might be going on, and thus might deter competition. Some guys might see the low feedback and think, "Ah: shilling, I'll stay away." All kinds of gamesmanship out there, I suppose. I personally just put in my best snipe and let the chips fall.

I am one of these people. not necessarily to make rival bidders think shilling is going on, but there are people/dealers out there that intentionally catch wind what certain whales are doing out there and try to capitalize on it. I also tend to do it simply because I max out my ebay bucks per quarter on each account plus the newer accounts get the 2, 3, 4, 5 and even 10x bonus buck offers.

I actually have 3 different bidder accounts for such reasons and usually just snipe in the end as matty said.

[wheels56]

Very useful perspective. Thanks gang for all of the responses. Couple of things:

- Contacted PWCC about it and they are looking into it. Overall, my experiences with PWCC have been quite positive. So, we shall see. In contrast, don't get me started on battlefield...

- Definitely a bit of sore loser syndrome here. Really wanted that Mantle! :) Completely possible that it was 100% legit.

[jhs5120]

Two things:

1. I would say the Mantle is legit. If you consign your card to PWCC you no longer need to shill with a "dummy" account. You can just shill with your every day buying/selling account.

2. Auction Houses are more susceptible to shilling and hide it much better.

[Hammerin'Hank]

In conversations with fellow collectors, I have learned some guys like to bid on eBay with newer, lower feedback accounts for two reasons-- it keeps people off the trail of what they are collecting, and it actually makes rival bidders think shilling might be going on, and thus might deter competition. Some guys might see the low feedback and think, "Ah: shilling, I'll stay away." All kinds of gamesmanship out there, I suppose. I personally just put in my best snipe and let the chips fall.

This is very true based on may experience.
The most expensive cards I have sold on Ebay were to bidders with very little history or very little recent history.

It scares me at first because I think they may never may pay...........but they always do.