"We Care" - USPS - My surprise yesterday...

[Leon]

It was around a hundred dollar baseball card and super scarce..The heart break was much more about losing the card than any monies (the seller and I are chatting, no need to discuss it too much here)...I blacked out contact info to protect the innocent :).

[HOF Auto Rookies]

Wow


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bigdaddy]

Maybe it would have been better to just have put a stamp on the card and sent it as a postcard.

Sorry for your bad luck.

[Jason]

When using the manilla folders instead of bubble mailers you have to tape the the top and bottom. The bottom seal will easily come undone in those sorting machines i.e. just like seen in the scans. Sorry for your loss Leon.

[Bicem]

USPS needs to go away and just let the private sector run the show.

[Luke]

That's awful :(

[Joshchisox08]

Perhaps the mail-man knows what you get in your bubble wraps now and thought it would be nice to take a souvenir for himself. That really sucks.

[Jantz]

I feel your pain Leon.

Same situation happened to me recently.


Jantz

[bnorth]

That sucks. My last We Care package looked like it had been run over by a truck several times and was soaked in hydraulic fluid but because the seller always super packages his stuff the card was ok.

[Leon]

I guess we see how well our stamping of USPS items as "Fragile" and "Do Not Bend" work? :eek:

[iowadoc77]

Words like fragile and do not bend are interpreted as throw around and stomp on. Very unfortunate, but fairly common. Sorry Leon

[GaryPassamonte]

Not to diminish the horrible condition the piece of mail was in when received, but the responsibility for secure packaging lies with the mailer. All mail delivery services use more and more automation processes and fewer and fewer humans in the sorting of packages. Unfortunately, machines can not read "fragile" endorsements on packages or smaller mailing envelopes. To be safe, it is always best to prepare packages with the thinking that they may be dropped, bent, crushed, etc. It's just the reality of automation vs manual sorting methods.
Sorry this happened to your package, Leon.

[Jay Wolt]

Man, that stinks!
Looks like a steamroller hit it

[nolemmings]

Sorry Leon. Of course, you can always hope that the fragile and do not bend warnings were observed until the contents was removed and stolen, and then the envelope was stomped and pummeled for effect. I'd rather think that my nice old card might surface someday, even if for somebody else, than to picture it in my head as destroyed. :(

[wolf441]

Sorry Leon. The "we care" almost adds insult to injury. They might as well put a plastic bag with a picture of a middle finger on it to show how they really feel.

[glchen]

When using the manilla folders instead of bubble mailers you have to tape the the top and bottom. The bottom seal will easily come undone in those sorting machines i.e. just like seen in the scans. Sorry for your loss Leon.

+1

[ibuysportsephemera]

As others have stated...this is the fault of the person sending the package. For a $100 card, they could have sprung for a small box that would have cost maybe .50¢ more in mailing cost. A real shame....sorry Leon.

Jeff

[ruth-gehrig]

Yeah that really sucks! Sorry Leon! I was recently sweating a baseball bat tube package that was plastered with "Received in damaged condition". Somehow the tube was cut in half although the bat survived without damage.

Was "Received in damaged condition" and "Received without contents" two different incidences down the assembly line? Is there any surveillance in sorting areas that perhaps reduce theft of package contents do you suppose?

[Section103]

Insurance, insurance, insurance. Never pass on insurance.

[thetruthisoutthere]

Sorry that happened to you, Leon.

For the past year or so, I ship everything in a box, well-secured.

No more bubble envelopes.

[Jeffrompa]

I've seen that black before on items I have sent and received it means it got caught in a sorting machine and ground until it looks like it caught fire . Hate to see a valued item treated like that .

[mrvster]

SUCKS!:eek:

[johnmh71]

I can relate to a lesser degree. My SI Baseball Preview issue showed up and it looked like someone's dog played with it.

I agree with other posters. The mailing package is as just as important as the card. I have had so many people mail cards in regular envelopes that were sent through a machine and damaged.

[ZachS]

The mailing package is as just as important as the card.

Went to the camp this weekend and returned to the house last night to find a stack of mail sitting on my back porch. Of course it rained and everything was soaked. At the top of the stack was a USPS Priority box and I'm thinking "Well whatever is in that is probably ruined." It was the REA catalog and because someone had put the catalog in a plastic bubble mailer before putting it in the box, it was completely dry.

The rest was mostly bills so I don't really care if those are all soaked.

[Cozumeleno]

Agree with what others have said about the packaging. I've shipped hundreds of cards over the years and nothing more than like a $5.00 or $10.00 sale would go in a manila envelope.

I'm surprised you can even put tracking on that. I tried it once and my post office said they would only add tracking to a 'package' (i.e. bubble mailer as a minimum). Didn't know if the person I got just didn't know what they were talking about but that's what I was told.

[Leon]

In my opinion it is 100% USPS's fault. Period, end of story.

[ZachS]

In my opinion it is 100% USPS's fault. Period, end of story.

I completely agree. You're paying them for a service and they failed to provide that service. If this was a slabbed card and the slab was broken I could see blaming the packaging (obviously a bubble mailer would be the preferred method).

In this case the envelope is bent and completely ripped apart. The object of the USPS is to receive mail IN AN ENVELOPE and deliver it to it's destination. I don't see how you can blame the packaging when it looks like it went through a shredder.

[Rrrlyons]

Not to defend the post office but if you package cards in something that is thin enough to get sorted it goes thru the sorting machine. History has shown you don't what to risk it. Simple solution put things in bubble mailers or Boxes with card board around them then they are hand sorted. The price to mail that envelope was probably $1.50, standard price for a puffy is 2.32 I think. People need to quit trying to save 80 cents and take it out of the machines hands. This is the senders fault not the post office. Still not a usps fan but we do have to take responsibility for our own actions once in awhile. Rick

[Rrrlyons]

I see now they did charge him the standard price for a bubble mailer

[steve B]

Not to defend the post office but if you package cards in something that is thin enough to get sorted it goes thru the sorting machine. History has shown you don't what to risk it. Simple solution put things in bubble mailers or Boxes with card board around them then they are hand sorted. The price to mail that envelope was probably $1.50, standard price for a puffy is 2.32 I think. People need to quit trying to save 80 cents and take it out of the machines hands. This is the senders fault not the post office. Still not a usps fan but we do have to take responsibility for our own actions once in awhile. Rick

The packages go through machines too.

Tracking isn't supposed to be available on anything that's under 3/4 of an inch thick, unless it's priority. Even stuff ridgid enough to be classed as a package can't have tracking under 3/4 inch.

There's the letter sorter, flats sorter, package sorter.......Not much human work aside from loading the machines.
I'm not sure about the flats and package machines, but the machines that do letters handle as many as 30,000/ hour.

Private carriers aren't really any better.

Steve B

[slidekellyslide]

The packages go through machines too.

Tracking isn't supposed to be available on anything that's under 3/4 of an inch thick, unless it's priority. Even stuff ridgid enough to be classed as a package can't have tracking under 3/4 inch.

There's the letter sorter, flats sorter, package sorter.......Not much human work aside from loading the machines.
I'm not sure about the flats and package machines, but the machines that do letters handle as many as 30,000/ hour.

Private carriers aren't really any better.

Steve B

I have sent over 2000 postcards with tracking in a small rigid mailer that is only as thick as the rigid mailer itself with never an issue. And as a postcard collector I receive similar packages the same way from ebay sellers weekly. I had one USPS clerk tell me I couldn't send a package like that with tracking, but she let me do it anyway when I told her I do it all the time.

[ZachS]

I see now they did charge him the standard price for a bubble mailer

Everyone is assuming that the card was placed in this envelope with no padding. I have shipped graded cards in envelopes like the one pictured with bubble wrap around the card itself. It's basically the same thing as a bubble mailer only the wrap is around the card instead of on the walls of the envelope. It's possible that when the envelope was ripped open the bubble wrapping (or cardboard) fell out along with the card.

Either way there's really no excuse for an envelope to arrive at it's destination looking like that.

[johnmh71]

Either way there's really no excuse for an envelope to arrive at it's destination looking like that.

I agree. It should have been handled with more care.

[glchen]

I completely agree. You're paying them for a service and they failed to provide that service. If this was a slabbed card and the slab was broken I could see blaming the packaging (obviously a bubble mailer would be the preferred method).

In this case the envelope is bent and completely ripped apart. The object of the USPS is to receive mail IN AN ENVELOPE and deliver it to it's destination. I don't see how you can blame the packaging when it looks like it went through a shredder.

The sender spent $2.32 to send the item from Washington to Texas. That cost won't even buy you a gallon of gas these days. Any time you don't insure a package, this is the risk that you take on. If the contents are valuable, then insure it. That's what insurance is for. As an ebay seller, I ship in a bubble mailer and don't insure anything under $200 since I figure that the cost that I save by not insuring will allow me to compensate the buyer for those rare instances that the item doesn't arrive safely. Stuff happens, and you have to plan for it.

[D. Bergin]

The packages go through machines too.

Tracking isn't supposed to be available on anything that's under 3/4 of an inch thick, unless it's priority. Even stuff ridgid enough to be classed as a package can't have tracking under 3/4 inch.

There's the letter sorter, flats sorter, package sorter.......Not much human work aside from loading the machines.
I'm not sure about the flats and package machines, but the machines that do letters handle as many as 30,000/ hour.

Private carriers aren't really any better.

Steve B


Rigids under 3/4 inches can indeed be shipped with tracking. I'm not sure why some Post Offices and others keep disputing this:

From USPS regs:



1.0 Basic Information
1.1Description

Delivery Confirmation service provides the mailer with information about the date and time an article was delivered and, if delivery was attempted but not successful, the date and time of the delivery attempt. Delivery Confirmation service is available only at the time of mailing. No record is kept at the office of mailing. Delivery Confirmation service does not include insurance, but insurance may be purchased as an additional service (see 1.6). Some statutes and regulations governing the mailing of documents with legal significance may require the use of Certified Mail or Registered Mail rather than Delivery Confirmation.
1.2Eligible Matter

Delivery Confirmation is available for First-Class Mail parcels defined in C050 as machinable (with no minimum weight), irregular, or outside parcels; for all Priority Mail pieces; for Standard Mail pieces subject to the residual shape surcharge (electronic option only); and for Package Services parcels defined in C050 as machinable, irregular, or outside parcels. For the purposes of using Delivery Confirmation with a First-Class Mail parcel or a Package Services parcel, the parcel must meet these additional requirements:

a. The surface area of the address side of the parcel must be large enough to contain completely and legibly the delivery address, return address, postage, and any applicable markings, endorsements, and special service labels.

b. Except as provided in 1.2c for machinable parcels, the parcel must be greater than 3/4 inch thick at its thickest point.

c. If the mailpiece is a machinable parcel under C050 and no greater than 3/4 inch thick, the contents must be prepared in a strong and rigid fiberboard or similar container or in a container that becomes rigid after the contents are enclosed and the container is secured. The parcel must be able to maintain its shape, integrity, and rigidity throughout processing and handling without collapsing into a letter-size or flat-size piece.

[4815162342]

Leon, I contacted my source at the post office about your card. He was able to locate footage from the mail delivery truck that might explain what happened.

http://i.imgur.com/8KLOH.gif

[ibuysportsephemera]

I still maintain that any seller who is concerned with an "EXPENSIVE" item getting to a buyer safely, needs to go the extra mile and package with more care. Perhaps a $100 card to this seller is not significant, then so be it. Anything that I sell for over $50 is given a little bit extra scrutiny before going out. That could mean a thicker cardboard insert (I send most things in a #4 bubble mailer with backing board and cardboard stiffeners), a priority box or extra insurance. I do this for my own peace of mind as well as to make sure that I have a satisfied customer.

Jeff

[ZachS]

I still maintain that any seller who is concerned with an "EXPENSIVE" item getting to a buyer safely, needs to go the extra mile and package with more care. Perhaps a $100 card to this seller is not significant, then so be it. Anything that I sell for over $50 is given a little bit extra scrutiny before going out. That could mean a thicker cardboard insert (I send most things in a #4 bubble mailer with backing board and cardboard stiffeners), a priority box or extra insurance. I do this for my own peace of mind as well as to make sure that I have a satisfied customer.

Jeff

How would a thicker cardboard insert and/or stiffeners helped in this instance when the envelope is completely ripped open? Your extra scrutiny would have just fell out.

[ibuysportsephemera]

How would a thicker cardboard insert and/or stiffeners helped in this instance when the envelope is completely ripped open? Your extra scrutiny would have just fell out.

I never would have used a bubble mailer for a flat valued at $100. See my earlier post, I would have sprung for the extra expense and shipped in a small box or even a small priority mail box.

Jeff

[glchen]

How would a thicker cardboard insert and/or stiffeners helped in this instance when the envelope is completely ripped open? Your extra scrutiny would have just fell out.

A thicker package may have prevented the package from being caught in the automatic sorter. Shipping tape on the edges of the envelope may have prevented the package from being ripped once it was caught in the sorter. Same thing still could have occurred, but these are typical things that many sellers do. I know when I send via Priority Mail Flat Rate Envelopes, I always tape all of the edges.

[timzcardz]

Pretty sure that I've posted this before, but there is only so much that you can protect against when shipping! :eek:

http://www.cal-lector.com/TimzCollection/RipkenBatbroken2.jpg

[ZachS]

A thicker package may have prevented the package from being caught in the automatic sorter.

Once again, everyone is assuming that there was no additional packing inside the envelope. The card itself could have been bubble wrapped.

[ibuysportsephemera]

Once again, everyone is assuming that there was no additional packing inside the envelope. The card itself could have been bubble wrapped.

Generally a box is going to provide more protection than a paper envelope...notwithstanding the picture of the broken bat above.

I am not just giving an opinion, I have shipped thousands of packages using the USPS and so far (knock wood) I have not had any problems.

Jeff

[laughlinfan]

Sorry, Leon. Very frustrating. I remember about 15 or 20 years ago I sent a postcard, an SASE, and a one page letter to a member of the basketball HOF for an autograph. About a week later, I got the "sorry/we care" plastic bag, with generic instructions on what not to do when sending something (I did none of them) and my original mailed envelope that was burned down to the top left corner that had my return address on it. (Looked a lot like a mirror image of Oklahoma, with the southern border highlighted in black.) Kept it for a while and showed it to my friends for a laugh. Nothing else I could do...

[Rrrlyons]

The assumption of little packaging is based on that someone deemed this to be a letter not a package. This kind of damage is from the letter sorting machine. No one can argue the point that we should expect better/usps should handle better and all the above mentioned. The bigger issue is if it is a letter it is going to go thru the LETTER sorting machine several times before it gets to you,know that we can't change their system. So adjust accordingly the letter machine is brutal I have seen it in person. It is for letters pwe with paper inside anything else you are putting it at risk to getting jammed in the machine. packages/ puffies are sorted Differently and are much safer. That kind of envelope can be used but you still need to thicken it with cardboard/ bubble wrap/ etc to make it a package. Rick

[glchen]

Once again, everyone is assuming that there was no additional packing inside the envelope. The card itself could have been bubble wrapped.

As the previous post states, it seems doubtful that there was bubble wrap used in the mailer because the package looks like it was damaged in a letter sorter. (Of course, only the sender knows if bubble wrap was used.) What likely happened was that thick pieces of cardboard was used to protect the card. This made the manila envelope thicker. However, the package was likely in that in between thickness that post office worker thought that it was still thin enough to go through a letter sorter. Which it wasn't ...

[Leon]

The sender spent $2.32 to send the item from Washington to Texas. That cost won't even buy you a gallon of gas these days. Any time you don't insure a package, this is the risk that you take on. If the contents are valuable, then insure it. That's what insurance is for. As an ebay seller, I ship in a bubble mailer and don't insure anything under $200 since I figure that the cost that I save by not insuring will allow me to compensate the buyer for those rare instances that the item doesn't arrive safely. Stuff happens, and you have to plan for it.

Insurance has nothing to do with their piss poor job of getting it to me. Insurance is completely beside the point. The USPS screwed up. No defense... Not the end of the world.

ps...gas is about $2.20 in Dallas so it will buy a gallon.....and I will be going back to the seller on this one to see if we can come to a mutually good situation...I paid $5 in shipping...

[brewing]

I have some USPS good news (somewhat) to report. I sent a sub to SGC on March 26th, it arrived today. I was a bit concerned because, I cheaped out on insurance and it never takes that long for a package to travel up the east coast.

[toppcat]

I almost feel your pain Leon, we probably get one of those a month, although it's usually a catalog or something worthless.

[Leon]

Here is a quick update that is fortunately not entirely unique. The seller is a stand up guy and said he would make it right and send me another card from the series, which I am/was very appreciative of. I got a snail mail letter with a card in it from him a few days ago. It stated he had originally put the card inside an old envelope that had his pre-printed return address on it. Otherwise it was a blank and unused envelope, with the card in it and stuck inside the, now mauled, mailer above.
Well, he received the blank envelope with the card still in it in his regular mail several (now) days ago. It was delivered with no postage due or anything. Now the original card is back to me and all is well.
I had another situation, similar to this, happen many years ago. That incident is recounted here somewhere in the archives. Fact is stranger than fiction. And props go out to whatever postal employees made this recent card retrieval happen.*The card is undamaged too. :) "They did good" on this one.

[gnaz01]

I recently had a package delivered to me by USPS 5 days late, was left at my front door in a plastic bag, crushed, soaking wet, and smelled of smoke from a fire, with the standard "We Care" BS on it. From what I surmised, the PO must have had a fire where my box was, and they flooded it with water to put the fire out, and that is how I received it.

BUT the contents were not damaged :confused:

[frankbmd]

After giving USPS a bad rap for this, Leon, I think you should be compelled to resort to pigeons in the future.;)

[Leon]

After giving USPS a bad rap for this, Leon, I think you should be compelled to resort to pigeons in the future.;)

Stagecoach.

I try to place blame fairly and also give accolades similarly. It was their fault(or at least liability) their machine messed up the package. And it was their good work that got the card back to the seller the way they did.

[Runscott]

Pretty sure that I've posted this before, but there is only so much that you can protect against when shipping! :eek:

http://www.cal-lector.com/TimzCollection/RipkenBatbroken2.jpg

I don't care for that style of box - they almost always arrive bent, but so far I've been lucky and nothing broken inside. Cylinders are much better. A partial cure for long rectangular boxes is to insert some extra-thick strips of cardboard inside and to pack the peanuts in - I always mention this to sellers when purchasing pool cues, as some of them like to construct their own boxes by taping two flimsy rectangular ones together.

I also once received a bat from a major auction house that had the same type of box yours came in, bent the same way. AND it had minimal packing. If I ever win another bat from them, they will get my advance warning.

[mrkrab]

USPS needs to go away and just let the private sector run the show.

So we can overpay to ship a package and executives can rake millions? No thanks.

[Leon]

So we can overpay to ship a package and executives can rake millions? No thanks.

I would take the bottom line of Fedex or UPS over the bottom line of the USPS.

[mrkrab]

I would take the bottom line of Fedex or UPS over the bottom line of the USPS.

Who wouldn't. As a citizen ill take the reduced rates.

[4815162342]

So we can overpay to ship a package and executives can rake millions? No thanks.


How does $18 billion sound? That's what we pay USPS in taxes, in addition to the $67.8 billion we paid them to ship our packages.

http://fortune.com/2015/03/27/us-postal-service/

https://about.usps.com/who-we-are/postal-facts/size-scope.htm

[steve B]

I would take the bottom line of Fedex or UPS over the bottom line of the USPS.

Neither of them are required to fully fund their pension plans and retiree health benefits up front. That would change their bottom line a bit.

http://about.usps.com/who-we-are/financials/annual-reports/fy2010/ar2010_4_002.htm

Of course, the upside is that the prefunding is putting a decent dent in their unfunded liabilities, which we'd end up paying for in the long run anyway, especially if they failed.

It's all pretty complex.

Some postal administrations have demonetized their stamps rather than carry them on the books as liabilities. (They're essentially receipts for a service that can be used to pay for that service at some future date. So many of them know the total dollar value of the ones that haven't been used. ) The USPS has only demonetized or disallowed a few stamps. For the regular issue stuff, everything issued after 1861 can still be used as postage. Some but not all of the stamps for particular services can still be used.

Steve B

[RichR]

Ouch!

[lharri3600]

It must be "WE CARE"WEEK AT THE POST OFFICE!
I received the same surprise yesterday!
Although my item was not scarce. Sorry too hear that Leon!

[lharri3600]

In my opinion it is 100% USPS's fault. Period, end of story.

agreed!

[Leon]

It must be "WE CARE"WEEK AT THE POST OFFICE!
I received the same surprise yesterday!

Nice Larry. You are now officially in the club.

I got a CleanSweep invoice in the mail yesterday, mailed 2 months ago. It looked like it had been through each storm since then. We have had about 1-2 feet of rain in the last 2 months....

I was about to send another t shirt to a member who didn't get one for quite sometime, yesterday, when he told me he finally received it. The USPS is having a few more issues than normal, I think.