Please help Just got a t206 need opinions on it being tampered with

[Joshchisox08]

Ok guys for starters this guy sent the card addressed to my dad who won a card off him many days after I won the Dubuc and took about a week to ship it. The eBay photo has no damage to the top left hand corner of the Dubuc. But you can faintly see some frosting as I missed that when looking at it previously only noticed it in person.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1910-1911-T206-Jean-Dubuc-SGC-30-GOOD-2-Old-Mill-/201312817994?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=Jk5qmhrOefSeEmsplUm2DQnPEWY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Then the moron shipped it in a regular envelope no padding, no cardboard. Could that have resulted in a chip on the left hand corner and air seeped through and added some "frosting" to the card which is present at the top and bottom ?????

Please see the scans I'm attaching as well as iPhone pics. I want to know if I'm going to be reporting this guy who does have 125 100% feedback. Perhaps it was just poor shipping on his behalf and I'll give him an earful.

Please let me know your opinions.

[wolf441]

I'd say that an earful is called for at the very least. He could have shipped in a bubble mailer with cardboard for less than it cost, based on the $3.73 postage in your pic. Sorry, that sucks.

Best of luck,

Steve

[Jobu]

I am going to say that it is shipping damage. I am not sure what the tampering would be on that card because, while it is a nice image, it has tape, missing paper, and isn't a high value card - it would seem odd to tamper with a card with other blemishes and then put it in a 2 holder. That said, I think the seller should return your shipping fees and then some because now you have to look at a busted holder or pay to get a new one. Good luck.

[vintagetoppsguy]

It definitely happened during shipping because the damage isn't shown in the seller's eBay pic (below). I would ask for a shipping refund.

Also, you might want to remove (or edit) the pic with your address.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMDE3/z/2kcAAOSweW5U~I8Q/$_57.JPG

[Joshchisox08]

Well I'm glad thus far that it hasn't been tampered with. I guess I'm too trustworthy of the people on this site already Dave. But with your suggestion I removed the picture of a standard envelope.

[swarmee]

He doesn't need an earful. Just send him a message through eBay with a picture of the dented corner and ask him for $5-8 to reholder the card from SGC.

Unless your intent was to crack it out and soak the stain, then send in to PSA, in which case he's assisted you in cracking the case. ;-)

[Joshchisox08]

John I don't even know where to begin with soaking and submitting to be graded but I actually appreciate the comedy as the news is good thus far !

[Luke]

That sucks Josh. I'd first contact him directly, and tell him what happened. Be respectful and assertive and tell him you'd like a partial refund for getting the card re-holdered from SGC.

I had the same thing happen once (but my crack was worse), and I was given a $13 refund that covered the cost of sending the card back to SGC, insuring it, and paying for the re-holder.

If the seller doesn't respond in the right way, then you can open up a case with ebay. But, it's always nice to give the seller a chance to take care of you without involving ebay first.

[Joshchisox08]

This is the pre-written message after a few pints. Let me know if it's too mean or not:


"Hello, I received not only the Dubuc but a Jimmy Sheckard as both my father and I live in the same house. I'd have to mention that I'm by no means an expert but I'm not a rookie at collecting either. The package arrived in a standard envelope with no card board protecting either card. My Dubuc has a slight chip on the top left hand corner that is not visible in the picture you presented in your listing. I also noticed lots of frosty marks on the edges. Typically this means that a case was opened and possibly a fake card was inserted. However I came to the consensus given your feed back and numerous opinions from reputable collectors I know that the card was not tampered with and was just a result of a poor shipping package. I'd like to ask for a partial refund of my father's shipping that was charged in addition to $8 which is the price of a new case from SGC so that I can have a presentable looking card. If you care to see pictures of the card I will have no problem emailing to you."

[Luke]

I'd get rid of the part about tampering. That clearly didn't happen in this case. Just explain that it is standard practice to package graded cards securely, and that did not happen in this instance, resulting in damage to the case.

[Joshchisox08]

I kept it in anyway Luke this is the second time I received a damaged case in two weeks. And my son's mother thoroughly has made big mistakes with his well being this week. I know wrong person to take it out on but I feel like it's not an insult with what I said. Just not in a good mood overall.

[Jason]

Don't quote me on this but I believe that card was for sale not too long ago on the BST. Could be a fellow member.

[Joshchisox08]

Don't quote me on this but I believe that card was for sale not too long ago on the BST. Could be a fellow member.


I suspected the possibility of that but don't really care. I'm a little pissed off. And I feel as though I'm in the right to be and what I said was "POLITICALLY CORRECT". The only time I have a filter is on the internet, go figure.

[arc2q]

I suspected the possibility of that but don't really care. I'm a little pissed off. And I feel as though I'm in the right to be and what I said was "POLITICALLY CORRECT". The only time I have a filter is on the internet, go figure.
These things happen. Your outrage seems quite disproportional to the offense. Have you even contacted the seller to give him/her a chance to refund? You may be surprised. I once received a cracked case that was obviously damaged in transit. Contacted the seller and he immediately refunded my money and told me to keep the card for the trouble. This is a $30 card that is still worth $30 because only the case is cracked. The card is fine.

[nolemmings]

"These things happen. Your outrage seems quite disproportional to the offense. ... This is a $30 card that is still worth $30 because only the case is cracked. The card is fine."

Agreed.

[Joshchisox08]

"These things happen. Your outrage seems quite disproportional to the offense. ... This is a $30 card that is still worth $30 because only the case is cracked. The card is fine."

Agreed.

You seem like one of those oversentistive people. I'm sorry but an inconvenience happens to me to often to not get offensive over. The verbiage I used was hardy offensive. I'd have to tell you to go elsewhere based off of your comment which I fully hearted disagree with. Constructive criticism is welcome but that I flat out disagree with you constructive criticism.

[nolemmings]

Huh? Seems to me you should put the beer down and learn how to formulate a cogent sentence, or at least one that's coherent. But then again,I guess I'm oversensitive, having taken the time to simply quote the person who posted immediately before me and type one word--"Agreed". Lord knows how you might think I'd gone off if instead I had typed "+1".

[Joshchisox08]

I've contacted the seller and have heard no response. I'm going to give it a couple of days at least.

Not going to get in any arguments or fights over the internet it's not worth it. $30 is still $30 and it's more about principles and inconvenience than anything. To some people $30 is quite a bit. Besides I'd put the value more around $42 haha.

[iwantitiwinit]

This situation doesn't seem like that big a deal to me, I'd just let it go. True that $30 is $30 but in the whole scheme of things I don't think I'd let this ruin my day. The seller obviously didn't package the card properly nor exhibit the minimum amount of care you'd expect but the card still appears to be in the same condition as when you purchased it. Be the bigger man and forget it.

[buymycards]

Make sure you give him only 1 star for shipping when you give him feedback, even if he refunds the shipping charges. If the seller is too lazy to do it correctly then 1 star may motivate him to start doing it right.

Rick

[egbeachley]

The card is fine. The slab did its job protecting it. It's wasteful to use cardboard and bubble mailers for every small shipment.

[Bpm0014]

So I guess "buy the card, not the holder" actually applies here? haha

[GoldenAge50s]

The card is fine. The slab did its job protecting it. It's wasteful to use cardboard and bubble mailers for every small shipment.

Eric--

I can't believe you are excusing the Seller's horrible shipping just because the card wasn't damaged! The slab IS part of the card & it was smashed for lack of a couple of pieces of cardboard, a proper envelope & hence an unhappy customer. --and I don't consider $30 a small shipment, altho that's not the point anyhow.

An item should be properly packaged no matter WHAT it is or WHAT it costs!

[TanksAndSpartans]

The seller was wrong to ship it like this, but when buying from an eBay seller who is not a dealer or consigner, I kind of expect these things (slow shipping, poor packaging, etc.) and weigh it against the price of the card. Definitely deserves neutral/negative feedback depending on response, but I'd just sent it in to be reholdered and be thankful the card is fine.

[freakhappy]

Eric--



I can't believe you are excusing the Seller's horrible shipping just because the card wasn't damaged! The slab IS part of the card & it was smashed for lack of a couple of pieces of cardboard, a proper envelope & hence an unhappy customer. --and I don't consider $30 a small shipment, altho that's not the point anyhow.



An item should be properly packaged no matter WHAT it is or WHAT it costs!


+1

Good points, Fred. There is no doubt that the slab is important. You pay a price for a grade and to get it entombed and we all know that the condition of the slab does in fact matter...especially if you display your cards.

[arc2q]

I don't think anyone is excusing the mistake in shipping or saying it does not matter. I think the bottom line is many in this community are too quick to throw around accusations of tampering and threaten negative action when a little patience would be more prudent.

Its fine to discuss these things here and get feedback. But it is also important to remember this is the most widely-used forum for vintage cards and anything negative said here about a seller/dealer has potential consequences for that person's business and reputation. The OP raised sinister accusations of tampering when it was clear this was just a case of minor damage in shipping.

The shipper made a mistake. It was a minor mistake at best that is easily corrected. Give that person a chance to make it right before turning it into a referendum. SGC will reholder that card for $5 with a 2 day turnaround. It's really not that big of a deal.

[The Nasty Nati]

Sorry to hear about that. I'd say it's definitely a result of poor packaging. It doesn't look like tampering to me.

If you're still looking for a SGC graded Old Mill Jean Dubuc, I have one...rest assured I will bubble wrap the hell out of it.

[Buythatcard]

I don't think anyone is excusing the mistake in shipping or saying it does not matter. I think the bottom line is many in this community are too quick to throw around accusations of tampering and threaten negative action when a little patience would be more prudent.

Its fine to discuss these things here and get feedback. But it is also important to remember this is the most widely-used forum for vintage cards and anything negative said here about a seller/dealer has potential consequences for that person's business and reputation. The OP raised sinister accusations of tampering when it was clear this was just a case of minor damage in shipping.

The shipper made a mistake. It was a minor mistake at best that is easily corrected. Give that person a chance to make it right before turning it into a referendum. SGC will reholder that card for $5 with a 2 day turnaround. It's really not that big of a deal.

Well said, Andrew.

[xplainer]

The card is fine. The slab did its job protecting it. It's wasteful to use cardboard and bubble mailers for every small shipment.

Sorry, but I totally disagree.
Every card I sell ships between cardboard and in a bubble envelope.
I'm not a Big Baller, but cards are cards. And what sets me apart is the way I ship and the speed I ship. That way, maybe folks will remember me and can come back.

I take pride in my shipping. Ask anyone who has ever purchased from me.

ALL cards "deserve" cardboard and bubble envelope. If not, who decides which one do, and which one's don't? The seller? How can that be right?

[Leon]

Sorry, but I totally disagree.
Every card I sell ships between cardboard and in a bubble envelope.
I'm not a Big Baller, but cards are cards. And what sets me apart is the way I ship and the speed I ship. That way, maybe folks will remember me and can come back.

I take pride in my shipping. Ask anyone who has ever purchased from me.

ALL cards "deserve" cardboard and bubble envelope. If not, who decides which one do, and which one's don't? The seller? How can that be right?

Packaging is important. I use bubble wrap inside a bubble mailer usually. Sometimes I use cardboard too, when I need to. Accidents do happen though. Shipping can be difficult on holders...

[Joshchisox08]

I'd like to apologize if I've offended anyone. I was upset about receiving a card for the second time with a cracked case.

I was reading other forums and thought that it had signs of being opened based off of what I read on those forums. If you see my current collection 88 I don't have as many as most on here and I'm still what I'd consider a newbie at t206 but it is my main focus.

The seller responded to me yesterday afternoon and I got a lame response:

"Hi When I get home from work I will look at the listing.thanks"

I'm unsure what looking at the listing would have to do with anything but if he doesn't respond today as he was supposed to yesterday I'm open to suggestions on how to handle the matter ?? All I asked was a refund of shipping and money for a new slab.

[mrvster]

it's all good! the highs and lows of collecting......;)

I promise....there will be much more highs than lows:)

[Leon]

I'd like to apologize if I've offended anyone. I was upset about receiving a card for the second time with a cracked case.

I was reading other forums and thought that it had signs of being opened based off of what I read on those forums. If you see my current collection 88 I don't have as many as most on here and I'm still what I'd consider a newbie at t206 but it is my main focus.

The seller responded to me yesterday afternoon and I got a lame response:

"Hi When I get home from work I will look at the listing.thanks"

I'm unsure what looking at the listing would have to do with anything but if he doesn't respond today as he was supposed to yesterday I'm open to suggestions on how to handle the matter ?? All I asked was a refund of shipping and money for a new slab.


I hope he works with you a little bit. It's certainly not your fault.

[Joshchisox08]

He's actually not cooperating at all. It's been getting frustrating.

[botport]

Josh,

First off sorry about your holder, but I think you need to consider a dealers perspective here. You received the item for $30 delivered. The seller paid for the card, possibly to grade it, paid something to ship it (albeit poorly), list it and pay the closing auction fees. Although your request for the dealer to pay for a new holder and a refund in shipping is not unreasonable, you are more then likely asking the dealer to take a loss on Dubuc. If you want to keep the card and can not work something out with the seller, I would advise paying to get the card in a holder that you can live with. If that option is disagreeable to you, ask if you can return the item for a refund.

Whatever you decide you did obtain a very presentable CARD at a nice price, so try to enjoy it.

Happy Easter, Frank

[freakhappy]

I had a card come in the mail a month or so back that was cracked and the card was ripped. Luckily it was a $20 card, but that's not the point. I don't care if the card is worth $2, I expect exactly what I pay for, in the condition that the auction picture displays. If the seller ships it loosely in a thin bubble mailer and it damages the card, we got a problem. This sort of shipping happens a lot in our hobby and it's something that will probably not go away completely...so we'll be forced to hope our stuff makes it unharmed.

I would suggest returning the card for a refund unless you really like it. You SHOULD NOT have to pay for this card to get reholdered. You will put $15-20 into just getting it reslabbed after shipping, insurance, fees, etc., ultimately it is up to you, but the ball will be in your court soon to make a final decision.

[mrvster]

sorry about the run around your getting.....when you get a great card makes it all worth it:)....hardly any consolation.....hope all works out

[Joshchisox08]

He won't give a partial refund. If it's only redemption I won my first ever Tolstoi back and a PSA 4 for $32, and a Jennings portrait for $50. So I made out well yesterday.

With the exception of a Kleinow and Needham avoiding my grasps arggggghhhhhhhhh.

[tiger8mush]

He won't give a partial refund.

So he's offering a full refund?

[Joshchisox08]

He offered a full refund. If I ship the card back which I stated I want to keep the card just would like a refund of shipping which he claims he didn't charge but he did on my fathers card. That's why he waited so long and shipped them in the same crappy envelope. Nor will he refund for a new slab. Which I told him to just forget the shipping and just for a new slab which he refused to so.

[4815162342]

Edit: Nevermind.

[K-Nole]

"These things happen. Your outrage seems quite disproportional to the offense. ... This is a $30 card that is still worth $30 because only the case is cracked. The card is fine."

Agreed.



Agreed X3
Here is my question...

The seller offered a full refund and you refused. You want to keep the card, but yet want the $ back for new slab.
If i were a seller, I would have my doubts as to the the fact that you would actually use the money to have it reslabbed, if you refused a full refund.

From your scans, I just dont see the damage being worthy of the fuss.
Give the seller a bad review, and move on.

[T206Collector]

I'm at "no big deal, move on" here as well.

[ZenPop]

"These things happen. Your outrage seems quite disproportional to the offense. ... This is a $30 card that is still worth $30 because only the case is cracked. The card is fine."

Agreed.

Totally agree.

[iwantitiwinit]

This situation doesn't seem like that big a deal to me, I'd just let it go. True that $30 is $30 but in the whole scheme of things I don't think I'd let this ruin my day. The seller obviously didn't package the card properly nor exhibit the minimum amount of care you'd expect but the card still appears to be in the same condition as when you purchased it. Be the bigger man and forget it.

I repeat my feelings from 1 1/2 weeks ago.