If you were to start a NEW grading service...

[ullmandds]

What would you do and how would you do it?

Most of us love to bitch and complain about the existing third party grading companies...because quite frankly they leave much to be desired.

So how about it guys...and gals...if you were to start a NEW...third party grading company...what would you do and how would you do it?

What would you change about the existing business models?

[shernan30]

Having something similar to BGS where there is a grade for corners, surfaces, centering, etc... but add an image and color category. The image would be for the Old Judge cards and the color would cover most other prewar issues like T206, most E series cards, etc...

Just my thoughts

[D.P.Johnson]

When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:

1. Is it authentic?
2. Has it been altered?

I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.

I would support a company that used a simple concept like this...

[Al C.risafulli]

1. I'd hire great graders and pay them well.

2. I'd take image quality into consideration the way PSA considers print defects. A weak OJ image would be treated the same as a roller line print snow, and would reduce the technical grade. My company would not have qualifiers (except the one noted below), so the faded image would reduce a card's numeric grade, and a high quality image that enhanced the card's eye appeal could increase a card's grade by a half point.

3. The only qualifier I'd allow would be BD - for back damage on otherwise blank-backed cards. Its a shame to see an Old Judge that looks like a 7 get dinged down to a 2 because it has paper loss on the back, when there's nothing on the back anyway.

4. I would consider a second qualifier for postal use on postcards, for a similar reason - a postcard that's gone through the mail and looks like a 7 gets knocked down to a 1 because Christy Mathewson's sister wrote on it and mailed it home to mom seems like an awful reason to reduce a card's grade.

5. Every issue that has back or pose variations would be recognized in my population reports from Day 1. Every T207 back, every T205 back, every Old Judge pose, every Topps paper stock color.

6. I would offer grading credits for people returning my flips, in an effort to keep my pop reports as accurate as possible. It wouldn't be as rich as one free grade per returned flip, but maybe I'd offer one for every 10 or something.

7. My holders would be secure, acid-free, thin, attractive.

8. Any submission with 25% or more of the cards rejected for alteration would be rejected in its entirety, and repeat offenders would be banned from submitting.

9. I would market extensively to both the vintage hobby and the modern, both to existing customers and new.

10. In addition to grading specials I'd have incentives for frequent submitters.

-Al

[barrysloate]

That's a great question Pete. First, I would do away with numerical grades, since baseball cards cannot be graded with the accuracy that the numbers suggest. I know this would not be popular with collectors, but since your question was theoretical only I will stick to it. All of the pretended accuracy of half grades, for example, is just a sham. Graders can't differentiate an 8 from a 8.5 with any sense of consistency. I would just use terms such as Poor, Good, Very Good, Excellent, etc. That would at least presume that the given card was not altered, and would tell the submitter all he needs to know about its condition.

I would also strive to be incredibly consistent and careful with grading, so that resubmissions would be almost entirely unnecessary. If a card was Very Good the first time, it would be Very Good the next ten times too. I believe the regrading game is nothing more than the TPG doing favors for certain customers, not to mention minting money. If you can't get it right the first time and every time, then find a new job.

I realize of course I would go belly up with this business model, but it is nevertheless what I would like to see.

[1952boyntoncollector]

I would allow for suggestions of grade and allow the customer to pay extra (cash preferred) than the normal grading costs.

I would guarantee a week turnaround time.

I would use a hologram or something that makes my holder unique and UV protected.

[ksabet]

That's a great question Pete. First, I would do away with numerical grades, since baseball cards cannot be graded with the accuracy that the numbers suggest. I know this would not be popular with collectors, but since your question was theoretical only I will stick to it. All of the pretended accuracy of half grades, for example, is just a sham. Graders can't differentiate an 8 from a 8.5 with any sense of consistency. I would just use terms such as Poor, Good, Very Good, Excellent, etc. That would at least presume that the given card was not altered, and would tell the submitter all he needs to know about its condition.

I would also strive to be incredibly consistent and careful with grading, so that resubmissions would be almost entirely unnecessary. If a card was Very Good the first time, it would be Very Good the next ten times too. I believe the regrading game is nothing more than the TPG doing favors for certain customers, not to mention minting money. If you can't get it right the first time and every time, then find a new job.

I realize of course I would go belly up with this business model, but it is nevertheless what I would like to see.

I like this idea very much.


Another terrible business model would be to just have every card scrutinized to the nth degree giving it an authentic/unauthentic plus any indications of trimming etc. To me "buy the card not the holder" is the best philosophy. To let the buyer be the judge of the grade, but alas the general public (including most dealers) and their egos would not let the number thing go.

[barrysloate]

Thank you. I also agree with Daniel that the only thing collectors really need to know is has the card been altered? We can all learn how to grade our own cards with about the same accuracy as a TPG.

[steve B]

I'd do a few things.

1)I'd reverse the turnaround time on the tiers.
2)That would allow extra scrutiny on more expensive cards.
3)Authenticity would not be pass/fail, there would be the option to decline an opinion until later or until more information was available.
4) The slab would have an enclosed slip like they do now, but would also have a compartment for a form that included detailed information. That form should answer any questions regarding why the grade might be less than the appearance would make you think.
5)Recognition for cards that are factory, but with odd cuts or that are undersize.
6) Slabs with gaskets that are both thick enough to work properly, and are available in colors. T206s look good in SGC slabs, but I don't think I'd say the same for 71 Topps or 1950 Drakes.
7) Maybe an option to include a litmus strip to monitor acidity of the environment inside the slab for sets on certain types of cardboard.

Business model stuff.
1) A registry that would include other grading companies. So you could have for instance 10 cards from steves grading, 20 from PSA, 5 from SGC and 3 from Beckett. The different companies would be weighted if it went beyond that. So maybe include GAI, but with a lower weighting.
2) A solid image database including front and back scans of all cards graded.
3) That would allow a no-slab grading option. We've never really had that, coins pretty much abandoned it, stamps has had it for over a century and while slabbing is an option it's been mostly rejected. The certificates usually have a photo attached that's essentially tied to the cert with something like a notary seal.

Umm....I guess I've thought a lot about this. If I was more organized I'd probably have the slabs prototyped already, but I know I'm not organized enough to make it work.


Steve B

[T206Collector]

I would do it like they do diamonds -- take a picture of the card, front and back, and return it with a sheet that describes the flaws of the card, from creases that are hard to see, to trimming/alterations. I was do away with the number system, and stick with the standard "Mint, NrMT, etc."

[Econteachert205]

I would hire computer programmers to create a program which would take high grade scans and assign initial numerical grades. Then I would use expert humans that have blacklights and other devices to double check the computer for errors. The cost per card would likely be quite a bit more, say between 20-50 dollars. This wouldnt be the company you send your ex 1968 ernie banks topps to. It would be geared toward high end cards and high grade cards.

[Runscott]

I hadn't noticed we have two related threads, so just moved this from the other one.

This is such an interesting theoretical topic. I say 'theoretical', because no ideal plan can be implemented economically. Since I only collect cards that are affordable in lower grades, this is fairly easy for me to come up with a self-serving solution:


TPA only handles pre-wwii cards - not even cross-over employees to a subsidiary that grades modern cards. All personnel are dedicated to pre-war
No numeric grades - just 'unaltered' or 'altered'
Code for each alteration type detected, reference number to TPA website for details
Published estimate of time TPA spends on each card (on average) for various value levels
Published list of techniques used, magnification levels, etc.
Published list of all graders and description of their expertise


The biggest problem this creates for me, as a buyer, is that graded cards are no longer commodities, so it's more difficult to determine value; however, we have that same problem with almost everything else in our hobby, especially the items with only a few known examples, and we manage to deal with it just fine. We also have this 'problem' with all raw cards, and it doesn't seem to present the least bit of a problem for either buyer or seller.

This would create horrors only for 'lazy' or unknowledgeable sellers who would have a difficult time knowing what to pay for inventory, as they could no longer easily estimate profit. Tough luck - as a seller, I would enjoy such a problem. This is where it takes brains and knowing your product, and sellers of other items, and raw cards, have to do it all the time.

[4815162342]

4) The slab would have an enclosed slip like they do now, but would also have a compartment for a form that included detailed information. That form should answer any questions regarding why the grade might be less than the appearance would make you think.

I like this idea, but instead of a form placed into a compartment on the slab, place a QR code on the slab (in place of the bar code) that links to a web site that details all of the characteristics of the card.

[111gecko]

"When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:

1. Is it authentic?
2. Has it been altered?

I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.

I would support a company that used a simple concept like this..."

+ 1

Thats all I want to know..I can see what I am buying.

[glchen]

I'd keep the grading scale the same as PSA except I would move the 10 down to a 9.5 grade, and make the 10 grade Pristine instead of Gem Mint, which would be the 9.5 grade. The Pristine grade should have the same centering/tilt, etc, requirements on the back of the card as the front.

I'd use Beckett's holders but would improve the eye appeal some so it doesn't look so much like a brick. I like the fact that Beckett's holders cannot be compromised and there are no float or insert issues. I really like the PSA 5x7 holders, so I would use something like that. I would also have larger holders like SGC and Beckett, but I would improve both of them. (e.g., SGC's largest holder often comes apart, and Beckett is seriously too thick and looks really ugly.) I'd probably also create an even larger holder that could encapsulate larger premiums.

If the holders didn't already have this, I would add UV protection to them.

For cert verification, I would add high resolution front and back scans for the card. When you add your card to your registry, it would add this scan to it. (However, you would have the option to not show the scans or just show the front scan if you wanted.) In cert verification, I would also have comments from the grader on why that card received that grade (like you will occassionally receive when you send the card in for review.) I would debate adding one of those invisible daubs that PSA/DNA adds to auto submissions to the cards, so that if a card were re-submitted, the TPG would know that this was a re-submission and could check the previous cert #. On the flip, I would have one of those bar codes where if you scan it via your cell phone, it would automatically take you to the cert verification page for that card. Cert verification would also have date that the card was graded.

For an additional fee, I may have add data from VCP for that card or similar cards for that grade (similiar to what Heritage does on the coin side when they auction coins.)

I would use SGC's and Beckett's system of allowing cards of different sizes and grading tiers in the same return postage submission instead of PSA's more restrictive one. I would probably keep fees and turnaround times similar to PSA's. However, I'd either "guarantee" poppage on a certain date (like Beckett) or I would give greater clarity on where your submission was in the queue, so that submitters wouldn't always wonder why one submission popped so quickly and others were so slow. I would also measure turnaround time from the time the package is received and not from loggage time like PSA.

[BicycleSpokes]

When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:



1. Is it authentic?

2. Has it been altered?



I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.



I would support a company that used a simple concept like this...


I really like this approach. I am surprised existing TPG companies do not offer this as an option.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[drcy]

I like D.P.Johnson's post

From a practical standpoint, you're not going to compete in the number/registry game, but doing a good job authenticating and identifying alterations would be a good service.

One problem is it would be harder for a collector himself to grade a card in a holder. Letter scans of the card though would mean the card wouldn't have to be entombed in a holder.

For the record, I'm all for collectors collecting low grade raw cards. They seem to be the closest to real collectors, as opposed to number investors and grade re-submitters. If a collector says "I don't care about number, and just want to be sure it's authentic and unaltered," he's my type of guy.

I've had some cards in such low condition that even if it turned out they were altered it wouldn't lower the value. I referred to a particularly rough small collection of Goudeys I once had as "the Devil's coasters."

I also agree with the earlier thread that there are variations in condition within the PSA/SGC Poor grade.

[OldEnglishD]

When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:

1. Is it authentic?
2. Has it been altered?

I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.

I would support a company that used a simple concept like this...

+1

With these two questions answered and the card slabbed (tamper proof), I would be very happy.

[Runscott]

I like D.P.Johnson's post


+1 - sorry for duplicating most of his concept. I just copied my post directly over to this thread without actually reading any of the posts here.

[drcy]

Just for the record, starting a trading card grading company would be about the last thing I'd want to do.

[Fred]

No numerical grades.

It's either AUTHENTIC (which means unaltered) or it has been ALTERED.

List ALL detected alterations (added color, bleached, trimmed, rebacked, etc).

List all defects that are not obvious. There's really no reason to list a MAJOR crease if it's very obvious. If it has a difficult to detect crease then note CR (like a qualifier of sorts).


Make a very secure tamper proof package.

Take hi resolution scans/pictures of the card (front and back) and make that information available in a database so people can research it and verify the card in the holder is in fact the card that was graded.

This service will probably be a little more expensive than the existing fee structures provided by the majors because of the extra work/detail involved.

WOULD NOT GRADE ANYTHING AFTER 1979. I might even make that 1960 and cater to a vintage crowd.

I'm sure there's more but those are the basic concepts of a service I'd like to see.

[Fred]

Just for the record, starting a trading card grading company would be about the last thing I'd want to do.

+1 - absolutely agree.... what a headache.... If I did do something that crazy, I'd change my name to Joe.... :p

[packs]

I'd institute a blind submission policy. You put your name on the submission form and your card gets a number for reference. A third party grader reviews the card not knowing who owns it. Assigns a grade.

The worst aspect of the grading / authentication business is that it favors certain individuals / companies. So I'd like to eliminate that aspect by having graders who know nothing about where the cards came from.

[Eric72]

I would allow for suggestions of grade and allow the customer to pay extra (cash preferred) than the normal grading costs.

I truly hope you were being facetious.

[ullmandds]

I'd institute a blind submission policy. You put your name on the submission form and your card gets a number for reference. A third party grader reviews the card not knowing who owns it. Assigns a grade.

The worst aspect of the grading / authentication business is that it favors certain individuals / companies. So I'd like to eliminate that aspect by having graders who know nothing about where the cards came from.

great idea!

[bnorth]

When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:

1. Is it authentic?
2. Has it been altered?

I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.

I would support a company that used a simple concept like this...

Like many others I really like this idea.

I would add that all alterations are listed on the flip and an online database with high resolution pictures front and back of each card.

[steve B]

I like this idea, but instead of a form placed into a compartment on the slab, place a QR code on the slab (in place of the bar code) that links to a web site that details all of the characteristics of the card.

I think QR code would make a nice addition. I'd still provide the hardcopy since the QR code is unlikely to outlive the company if the company fails for whatever reason. The hardcopy could become separated from the card, but would be more likely to survive for a long time.

I'm trying to recall the oldest Stamp certificate I've seen on an available stamp. There are certainly some out there from the 70's as I can recall seeing one with a 1979 cert. The APS issued their first in 1903, but many collectors will have them redone if they're a few decades old. New information comes out, and being thin paper the condition can change. (even before grading they would mention certain types of flaws like creases, disturbed or missing gum etc. )

Steve B

[BobbyVCP]

I would hire computer programmers to create a program which would take high grade scans and assign initial numerical grades. Then I would use expert humans that have blacklights and other devices to double check the computer for errors. The cost per card would likely be quite a bit more, say between 20-50 dollars. This wouldnt be the company you send your ex 1968 ernie banks topps to. It would be geared toward high end cards and high grade cards.


This is already in development. A machine that can precisely measure a card front and back as well as width. It will be able to analyze the cuts to see it it is factory or hand cut. It will use a new software that is currently used in the film industry that is for sequencing movie frames. It will be able to take existing graded images and compare them against each other to assign a numerical grade.

[packs]

Sounds like an expensive mistake to me. You've only got 2 major clients. And after they buy a machine or two, then what do you do?

[4815162342]

This is already in development. A machine that can precisely measure a card front and back as well as width. It will be able to analyze the cuts to see it it is factory or hand cut. It will use a new software that is currently used in the film industry that is for sequencing movie frames. It will be able to take existing graded images and compare them against each other to assign a numerical grade.

Tell us more, please.

[obcmac]

This is already in development. A machine that can precisely measure a card front and back as well as width. It will be able to analyze the cuts to see it it is factory or hand cut. It will use a new software that is currently used in the film industry that is for sequencing movie frames. It will be able to take existing graded images and compare them against each other to assign a numerical grade.


I'm excited about this too. I don't think you can reliably tell if a card has been trimmed (well). What you can know however is the precise dimension of the card in question and compare that to the average dimension of an unaltered source. Then you wouldn't see nrmt 7's, you'd see cards that were .97 instead of 1.0. One guy's trimmed is another's nrmt...it's still subjective...but a short card is a short card.

[BobbyVCP]

Our main IT person at VCP is working on the project. His group of friends all have engineering degrees from MIT, Harvard, etc...They created this software for the film industry and it is amazing how accurate the results. We are in the process of applying it to VCP images in order to help identify cards listed in auctions for processing into our database. The testing is very promising and has yielded 100% accuracy so far. So taking it a step further he is working with his mechanical engineer to create a machine that will scan all sides of a card 6 in all. It will be able to analyze the images against existing images in our database. Once the card is identified it will have a list of parameters that it will have to uphold in the processing. I am sure the tolerance levels will be adjustable. It is just the start of things and hope to have a working model by this summer. This machine is not only for the TPG but any dealer that deals in volume. Because once the card is identified it will interact with the VCP database and give you values of the cards.

[Orioles1954]

I would love for a grading service to start grading and encapsulating wrappers.

[4815162342]

I would love for a grading service to star grading and encapsulating wrappers.


+1

Does/Has any TPG ever graded wrappers?

[Rickyy]

When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:

1. Is it authentic?
2. Has it been altered?

I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.

I would support a company that used a simple concept like this...

I'd be happy with this as well...

Ricky Y

[Econteachert205]

Thanks for the info bobby, cool stuff.

[glchen]

+1

Does/Has any TPG ever graded wrappers?

GAI does with number grade. SGC does only as Authentic.

[4815162342]

GAI does


Eh.

[frankbmd]

Why is Wilbur Goode's scan in every post in this thread?

If this has been asked or discussed, I missed it in scanning this thread, but I didn't miss Wilbur, Wilbur, Wilbur, Wilbur, Wilbur, Wilbur & Wilbur, etc:eek:

[Tabe]

Sounds like an expensive mistake to me. You've only got 2 major clients. And after they buy a machine or two, then what do you do?

You don't sell them the grading machine/software - you lease/license it to them. And I'm sure there's other uses for the same technology.

[BobbyVCP]

You don't sell them the grading machine/software - you lease/license it to them. And I'm sure there's other uses for the same technology.

Exactly

[the 'stache]

This topic is going to take off, that is the truth. So, before too many other people have had a chance to chime in, I am going to throw my hat into the ring, and provide the outline of my business concept for a grading company.

Bill’s card grading service

1. Transparency. I cannot think of any other service we pay for where the professional we hire is nameless, and faceless. If we go to a restaurant to eat, we see the wait staff. We can ask to see the chef, or the manager. When we buy our television sets, our cars, our furniture-we can see the salespeople. When our cars are serviced, we can meet the mechanic. Yet when we ship our baseball cards off in the mail to be graded, we have no idea who is performing the service. We are told they are “experts”, but what qualifies them as experts? The first change I would make with my baseball card company is to not only hire people with extensive hobby experience, but I would post their names, faces, and their “credentials”, such as they are, for people to see. What is their background? Have they ever worked for another grading company, or one of the baseball card manufacturers, and if so, in what capacity? The people responsible for providing their opinions will be known, and every card they grade will have their name affixed to the serial number.

2. Higher prices, better service. To charge more than the other companies might seem counterintuitive. Wouldn’t that push customers away? It is my belief that you get what you pay for. I don’t want to be a company that grades more cards than anybody else. I want to be the company that grades the most accurately. That being said, we don’t want every card sent to us. We will, of course, offer our service to anybody, and grade whatever is sent to us. But not every card should really be graded. How many of the cards you got in your wax box of 1983 Topps are really worth anything today? Two or three? Yet, you can look on eBay, and every single card in the 1983 Topps set has been graded. If you look long enough, you’ll see every card in a PSA slab. Why? Because of their registry. A $2 Reggie Jackson card becomes worth $10 because it is in GEM condition. Anybody with eyes can see it is an exceptional card. That $10 card becomes worth $400 because one of our experts has said the corners and centering are both just a little bit better than the average 9.5 we grade. Does that seem right to anybody but the dealers? When a company’s motto is “we’ll turn your cardboard into gold”, the whole meaning behind collecting is lost. Sure, some of those 100 year old cards are really valuable. If a player got 3,000 hits, they went to the Hall of Fame. And, kids put their baseball card into their bike spokes. Now, people pull a card from a pack, and they immediately go into a mylar sleeve, and a hard case, and get put in a box. We’re not going to have a registry. Ever. We are going to grade cards based on what we see. And the value of that card will be determined by the market, and not because somebody will go from #2 to #1 in the registry for ___ by upgrading their 9.5 card to a 10. We will charge more. We will tell people to send cards to us that have meaning, or intrinsic value (as much as baseball cards can have). And, our graders will treat each card we receive with the care and respect they deserve. It won’t matter if you are sending your first card to us, or your 10,000th. We won’t give your cards the benefit of the doubt because you are a regular customer. The only thing that will ever factor in a card’s grade is the condition of that card alone.

3. A 9 is a 9 is a 9. There won’t be any adjustments made to a card because of the set it came from, or because of its age. A gem mint card is a flawless card. If the printing technology utilized in 1933 means that none of the cards produced then measure up to a 10 graded card printed today, then there won’t ever be a 10 graded card from that set 1933 set. Every card we receive will be graded by the same graders. Every card will receive one overall score, and then a series of subscores, which determine the overall score. Considered will be corner quality, edge sharpness, centering, surface quality (front and back), and registration. Our graders will not feel rushed. We will provide a best estimate turn around time to our clients, but our graders will never be rushed. A condition of doing business with is an understanding that our graders will take the time needed to accurately grade a card. They will never feel pressure. They will not be penalized for doing too few cards, or rewarded for doing more. They will have ample time to ascertain a card’s authenticity, as well as its integrity. If a card has in any way been altered, that will clearly be documented. We will not simply mark the card AUTH, and leave the guesswork up to potential buyers. Findings will clearly be documented on the back of the flip. Our company’s reputation means everything, and we will never sacrifice integrity in favor of financial gain.

4. We will set the industry standard with our slab. These slabs will be tamper proof. An attempt to open the case will render it unsalvageable. The flip inside the slab will be affixed to the slab itself, and if tampered with, the flip itself will become ripped. The slab, and the flip itself, will be impossible to reproduce, through the use of hologram stickers, and anti-counterfeiting inks, to name a few examples. This will insure that a customer receiving a card in our packaging can rest assured that it is the same card we graded. Additionally, every finished product will be documented. We will employ several commercial-grade scanners, and upon slabbing, the finished product will be scanned, front and back side, with the images safely stored in our database. These images can be requested on a case by case basis at no charge. We will work with our competitors to develop industry-wide safety features to protect hobbyists, and root out the criminal element as much as humanly possible.


So, that's a rough outline. It's far from perfect, but we're only talking about a concept. I'd like to see more transparency from the grading card companies, for one thing.

[vintagehofrookies]

wow, there have been some great ideas in here. It would be great if even 1 came to fruition.

[JollyElm]

I would like two things, and it would be great if we had a time machine to put these things in place from the first day the grading started at the TPG's…

1a) Put qualifiers on each and every card that has issues. If a 1967 high number is obviously O/C, then put it on the slab. There is no reason why the appearance of a qualifier has become such a Scarlet Letter. Cards have always been imperfect, so let's see some honesty in grading. Right now, based on anecdotal evidence, you can seemingly eliminate having a qualifier on the slab in most cases by 'sacrificing' 2 numerical grades. That's just ridiculous. If a card is miscut, then put MC on the frickin' slab. Having this as SOP from the beginning would have basically eliminated the stigma attached to having a qualifier, because all cards would have truly 'accurate' grades (I'm obviously speaking/typing theoretically here), plus it would make cards without qualifiers that much more desirable to all the slab chasers out there. Win win.

1b) Eliminate ST qualifiers for wax stains. It only takes two seconds with a pair of panty hose to eradicate the problem on the front of the card, so it's just silly to act like it has some terrible flaw. You could actually do the panty hose treatment while wearing panty hose, if that's your thing.

1c) Perhaps with checklists, have a special 'marked' qualifier. Most of us grew up checking off the checklists in the goal of completing our sets, so if one of these cards is checked off, but still in beautiful shape, it would be nice to have this new category.

2) Photograph, front and back, each and every single card that is graded. For the people who care about population reports, it would be nice to scan through the images of certain rare cards to see which ones have been regraded. This would definitely lead to greatly revised POP report numbers (in theory, if not in actual published statistics).

[mrvster]

as you know Pete and Scott;)............this has been in my wheel house for a while.....

;)


I have the recipe:D

[Buythatcard]

1. Eliminate qualifiers. Instead, downgrade it a point.

2. Refuse to grade reprints. Instead put them thru a shredder.

[ullmandds]

I like a lot of the responses so far.

I think all reprints should be stamped right on the card as such...if not shredded!!!

[bn2cardz]

A company I liked when they were around was CTA. They would give a report card with the card broken up into 8 areas, 4 front areas and 4 back areas, then they would take a point off for each flaw in an area and thus you knew exactly where the flaw was found. The real problem with this model is that the report card would have to stay with the card from then on as it wasn't on the case.


I have said it before, but I would like to see a manufacturing grade and a post production grade. This way factory errors (miscuts, centering, alignments) would cause their own grade, and mishandling (stains, writing, creases, bad corners) would be in their own.

[Exhibitman]

I'd primarily revise the holder and technical end of things.

The holders would have two components, an inner mylar sleeve for the item and an outer protective shell that would be sealed and tamper-evident.

The flip's largest feature would be the identifying data in big, bold letters.

Oddball sized cards would go into mylar sleeves sufficiently large to put the item into the next size up holder.

For an optional fee, the service would scan the item from and back and make the scan available to the owner to download for a set time, or for another fee, store it indefinitely in a customer managed account.

The registry would allow all services' cards but only my brand's cards would count towards ratings. Registrants would be allowed to add images of their cards to the system. Registrants could opt to make their registry sets anonymous, in which case the set would be described generally as % complete, but without a rating, in case the registrant wants to use the set as a checklist.

I would internally track who handles which cards and how many complaints emanate from each grader's work. Heads would roll...

No clubs to join. No fanny packs, t-shirts or other trinkets. We would have an injection molded custom box that would hold cards securely and would have a moisture proof gasket type of seal. A large version with handle would be available.

[Paul S]

No clubs to join. No fanny packs, t-shirts or other trinkets.

:eek:Fuggedaboutit:(

[jsconscum]

When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:

1. Is it authentic?
2. Has it been altered?

I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.

I would support a company that used a simple concept like this...

+1

I don't need a monkey to tell me my card is mint.

[Theo_450]

I didn't read all of the posts.

My card grading company would have 3 categories.
1. Authentic Original
2. Authentic Altered = soaked, trimmed, erased, marked, restored, otherwise tampered with.
3. Fake

Let the buyers decide value/demand.

At the end of the day, it is what it is, and they are what they are, and the grading companies are a middleman that are capitalizing on telling us what "it" is.

I want to know that it is authentic and unaltered, or otherwise. My eyes can do the rest.

After all, it is art and nostalgia. It is kind of like buying an antique coffee table.

Refinished = < value, faked = NO value, and "came from my family" = "I bet you made that up".

edited to add: I just read a few more posts, and I feverishly stand by my concept. Don't let the grading companies dictate what you will collect, or how much you will pay for it.

[toledo_mudhen]

Lose the Half Grades - Seriously? What a scam.....
Simple foil seal around couple of edges to show if tampered with
Integration with the other top 3 TPGs for an accurate population report and registry
I measure centers with JRuler - I'm sure it wouldnt be that hard to have a computer calculate L/R and T/B - Maybe noted on back of flip
Grades like Beckett on back for Center, surface, corners
No membership fees for submitting
Customer service like SGC


I'm ready - who else is in?

[WWGjohn]

As a collector of low grade cards, I've always hated TPG's but I also like the concept of authentic or altered as designations. As others have said I can assign my own grade to what I buy.

John

[nolemmings]

I used to be among the crowd who wanted just an authentic-unaltered notation-- in fact I probably posted to that effect 10 years or so ago. Upon reflection though I prefer having a technical grade assigned, for it helps alert me to flaws that are difficult to see, especially in a scan when scanners have such variable settings.

I hate wrinkles or creases, certainly more than most other defects, and am no fan of even minor paper loss or stray pen marks. Oftentimes these are very difficult to spot in scans. I would be unhappy to buy an otherwise real nice looking card graded simply "Authentic-Unaltered" only to find these defects when I had the card in hand. I probably wouldn't want the card at all and certainly would not have paid anywhere near as much. I suppose I could inundate the seller beforehand with all sorts of questions as a preventative measure and return it if unsatisfied, but these are major hassles to me. Instead, give the card its proper grade and let me decide when I buy the card not the holder, with a lower grade number serving to tip me off to look more closely.

[nolemmings]

I would internally track who handles which cards and how many complaints emanate from each grader's work. Heads would roll...

I would go even further-- assign a unique number to each grader and make sure that number appeared somewhere on the flip. I don't need to know his name, but I can then establish which graders are associated with what I consider questionable grades and steer clear (or at least take heed) when I see that guy's work.

[conor912]

When I'm buying a card I want to know two things:

1. Is it authentic?
2. Has it been altered?

I can personally assign my own "grade" and determine the price I want to pay for the card.

I would support a company that used a simple concept like this...

I don't do graded but this is spot on. I find much more value in the opinion of authenticity and alterations than I do in the grade assignments. My company would have no assigned grades. I'd also make a cheaper grading option for commons, like in a top loader with a small sticker/seal over the top. The space/weight of all those bulky slabs is a real drag and one of the many reasons I only collect raw. I think current TPG's are missing out on a ton of potential money from people who want their $2-$20 cards looked at, but can't justify paying for the full monty.

[begsu1013]

I would:


1. find a good state for tax credit purposes.

a. hopefully, one w/ no state income tax.
b. a city w/ a direct fedex/ups hub.

2. establish said llc or llp.

3. find a reputable and established IT guy.

4. formulate a computerized scientific program for grading/measurements

a. a lot of cards would get kicked back for measurement discrepancies alone
b. grades would be more consistent
c. this would cut down on labor costs dramatically.

5. quality control check.

6. develop and patent a true tamper proof case.

a. maybe w. a die insert "ring" that changed colors if cracked (not spill out all over the card naturally)

7. establish a user-friendly registry

a. said registry would also track pedigree/provenance
b. notify date graded.
c. allow private messaging option of previous owners, if so wished.

8. construct an aggressive marketing campaign

a. wait for a true beauty to hand out 1st cert
b. hand out 100 free subs at national to each paid entry.
c. extend another initial free subs offer electronically for said amount of time
d. charge a minimal price (in the beginning) for crossovers.
e. kids 15 and under would get 20 free subs a year under $100 declared value.


9. continuously strive for the quickest log in and turnaround time possible

10. customer service would be bar none.

edited to add: you would also get a high resolution scan emailed to you once encapsulated.

[freakhappy]

I used to be among the crowd who wanted just an authentic-unaltered notation-- in fact I probably posted to that effect 10 years or so ago. Upon reflection though I prefer having a technical grade assigned, for it helps alert me to flaws that are difficult to see, especially in a scan when scanners have such variable settings.

I hate wrinkles or creases, certainly more than most other defects, and am no fan of even minor paper loss or stray pen marks. Oftentimes these are very difficult to spot in scans. I would be unhappy to buy an otherwise real nice looking card graded simply "Authentic-Unaltered" only to find these defects when I had the card in hand. I probably wouldn't want the card at all and certainly would not have paid anywhere near as much. I suppose I could inundate the seller beforehand with all sorts of questions as a preventative measure and return it if unsatisfied, but these are major hassles to me. Instead, give the card its proper grade and let me decide when I buy the card not the holder, with a lower grade number serving to tip me off to look more closely.

As much of a beauty it would be to have just "altered" or "authentic" on the slab, I think I'm with Todd...I want a number on the slab. There's too much info that that number represents. With all of the good that having no number on a slab would bring, I think it may be just as bad without a number. Sometimes it's hard to tell the defects on a card through a picture on the internet...imagine if you didn't have a slab number to give you some direction :eek: And you think people are crooked now...just take the number away! I believe there are ups and downs to both, but I prefer some direction instead of playing the guessing game.

That being said, I believe there should be an option on whether or not you want a number grade assigned to your card and with that, it needs to state whether it was requested or not so people know it was by choice and not because of an alteration, etc.,

There are three things that need to be a priority IMO if you are starting or running a card/memorabilia/auto authentication/grading business:

1. competent graders...the ones that can give no excuses for absolute shit grades. I know there will always be the human element factor as long as they are doing the grading, but some grades I've seen are inexcusable...can't happen.

2. top notch customer service (duh ;)). The kind that realizes that we the customers are the reason they are staying in business and treat us as so.

3. a tamper proof slab (kudos to Beckett). And if Beckett could grade pre-war a little better, I would be sending them all of my business. I like all three and I feel like Beckett's holders are probably in last place (I don't hate their holders tho) among the three as far as appearance goes. Their slabs are bomb proof tho and they get bonus points for that!

I know there would be a lot more I would do if I started a grading company, but this is where I would start. Good thread, Pete!

[mark evans]

I think a 1-10 system with alterations identified is fine.

Given the inherent subjectivity in grading, finer distinctions are silly. Fewer grades would be ok for in-person transactions, but I think a 1-10 system facilitates internet transactions.