Buyer beware on these

[Jantz]

This new Ebay seller is listing these T206s as "rare wet sheet transfers" and this is not only misleading, but incorrect.

In the description they say the wet sheet transfers "happened" at the factory. These transfers did not happen while sheets were being stacked in the printing factory 100+ years ago.

I don't want to mention any names, but the seller's initials are tcgrarefinds

This seller should stick to selling cards that they are more familiar with like Pokémon & Yu-Gi-Oh cards. Note their feedback.

I know most of the board members here know their stuff. I just didn't want any of our newer T206 collectors getting taken by this seller.

Below is an example of one of the cards this seller is auctioning.

Jantz Morey

[steve B]

Interesting remnants of the paperloss seen on the backs. Whatever paper got stuch to the fronts came off fairly well leaving only traces and the ink.

That's not really hard to duplicate. Back in the 70's there was a brief "craft" fad for transparencies you could hang in the window. I did it with a couple then new commons and it was harder than other stuff only because the cardboard was thicker.

Put packing tape or a wide clear sticker over the printed or drawn item (Using a non water based ink if you're drawing it. ) Rub it down so there's no bubbles, then soak in water and once it's good and wet wipe away the paper leaving the ink stuck to the tape. Put a bit of a frame around it I used popsicle sticks-and hang in the window like a suncatcher. :D

They don't last. The adhesive on the tape gets gummy like it always does and attracts dust and eventually they're too ugly to keep.

Steve B

[Jantz]

Hi Steve

Part of the reason why I started this thread was because these cards and some others were posted up in a thread. I think maybe here on Net54. For the life of me though, I can't find the thread at the moment. If I recall correctly, it was briefly discussed that these transfers occurred after factory.

Most of the cards had damage because they were stuck together for so long.

Now they are showing up on Ebay. Imagine that.:rolleyes:

[steve B]

Yep, what a surprise. :rolleyes:

They are interesting as atypical damage related to paperloss and being stuck together. But for sure not at the prices they're at.

Steve B

[PMSeevers]

So how does one identify a true wet sheet transfer that occurred at the factory?

[t206blogcom]

So how does one identify a true wet sheet transfer that occurred at the factory?

How do we definitively know WSTs happened at the factory?

[PMSeevers]

How do we definitively know WSTs happened at the factory?

So I take it WSTs are still an ongoing debate as to if they actually exist? Sorry, I'm still new to all this.

[steve B]

There's basically two sorts of wet sheet transfers that happen at the factory. Each has a proper technical term I'll use below with an explanation of how they happen.

The least common are Cylinder impressions or cylinder offsets. Those are the ones with a complete and detailed image on the wrong side of the card and the image is reversed. They happen when a sheet doesn't feed and the ink gets printed to the impression cylinder. Then the next sheet comes through and that ink on the impression cylinder gets transferred to what is the back side of the sheet (Back here being the side not being printed)

The more common ones are offset transfers. They happen from accidents or improper handling of the stack of printed sheets. Like if the new guy leans on the stack of printed sheets before it's dry-------The boss wasn't happy with me that day, but I "only" wrecked about 75 sheets. Offset transfers can be faint or fairly detailed depending on the ink, how much it's dried and how much pressure gets applied. They're typically faint, but when you look closely they're still nice clean prints. Faint ones are pretty common on backs printed in black, especially on Tolstoi.

Since it's normal to be printing one back at a time, and the press stacks the sheets neatly, any wst of a different back or different subject should be suspect. The same for an upside down wst. They're not impossible, but are really unlikely to have survived since they would have to be from sheets -usually spoiled sheets but sometimes new but damaged stock- placed on the pallet to protect the good sheets.

The ones that are blurry are also nearly 100% likely to be from something that happened after the factory. There's always a way for something to happen, but the less normal the wst (or any other misprint) The less likely it would have happened.

The ones in the auctions have the same detail as a cylinder transfer, but aren't complete. And some are upside down. Combined with the paperloss on the back, and the occasional bits of paper stuck to the fronts near or on the supposed wst, they're sure to be very thin remnants of other cards that were once stuck together.

Steve Birmingham

[steve B]

As an additional point of data, many older inks especially black were carbon in a carrier of something like linseed oil which would eventually "dry". Some actually dried and hardened, others only dried a bit.

This pic shows two card proofs of stamps printed sometime in the 1890's (There were 5 printings over several years and they're really hard to tell apart) I bought them on Ebay maybe 4 years ago from a seller in the UK. Neither had a transfer. They were both put in the same small envelope inside the package and the transfer happened while they were in the mail.

While it's intaglio ink rather than lithographic ink, the formulations for black were usually similar. And the ink hasn't actually totally dried in over a century.

Steve B
http://www.net54baseball.com/picture.php?albumid=123&pictureid=10227

[PMSeevers]

There's basically two sorts of wet sheet transfers that happen at the factory. Each has a proper technical term I'll use below with an explanation of how they happen.

Thanks for the explanation!