Mystery postcard - Eastern Exhibit variation?

[paul]

I was the underbidder on this postcard. Do any of you know what it is? It looks like an Eastern Exhibit, but it has no "Eastern Exhibit" legend on the back. Also, it's b&w instead of sepia. Thanks.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/400851796501?_trksid=p2060778.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[Exhibitman]

I have a few. It is a PC set made with the same art but not on exhibit stock. Much tougher than the comparable exhibit cards.

[pencil1974]

I have an Eastern Exhibit that is black and white and does have the Eastern Exhibit writing on the back.

[nolemmings]

The card shows Faber in a 1918 Sox uniform, so that might help narrow down the dating. Also it appears to have an IFS copyright symbol in the lower left; if so, it is likely not an Exhibit product. International Feature Service was an early Hearst entity that produced the w516 strip cards in 1920-21, although the copyright symbol on those is slightly different. This was around the same time the ESCO was getting into baseball cards. Maybe an early competitor?

[Exhibitman]

No. The IFS logo is also on the Easterns:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/Collins.jpg

The PCs are too thin to vend properly from an ESCO machine, hence I don't think they were an arcade machine product.

Please post some pics of the B & W Eastern.

[glchen]

Here's a link to a scan of another b/w Eastern Exhibits Ruth that does not have the legend on back: Link (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=157424)

[frankh8147]

Here's a link to a scan of another b/w Eastern Exhibits Ruth that does not have the legend on back: Link (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=157424)

I was going to post that thread but you beat me to it! One of my favorite cards! :)

[nolemmings]

No. The IFS logo is also on the Easterns:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/Collins.jpg

The PCs are too thin to vend properly from an ESCO machine, hence I don't think they were an arcade machine product.

Please post some pics of the B & W Eastern.

Adam, You're right about the copyright-- I probably should have checked my own cards before posting :o It sucks getting old.

Anyway, maybe this was one produced by industrious yet tortious Mr. Hurwitz.

[Exhibitman]

Gary, looks to me like BVG blew the ID on that card [would need to handle it raw to be sure]. The peeling damage of the card looks spot on for the damage on my Heilmann, and it is on a thin PC stock.

From my research in Exhibit machinery, the cards have to be a certain thickness to vend properly through the mechanism. The BW PCs w/o the Eastern tag line are too thin to vend.

I am not sure, frankly, whether there are BW 1922 Easterns or whether the postcards were misidentified as Easterns when the first catalogs were done. I know I haven't personally handled an Eastern with a BW front Eastern tag line on back, nor have I seen one w/either an Eastern or ESCO back that wasn't the proper card stock to vend. Er, let me rephrase: I think what has been reported as black and white Eastern Exhibits are actually a separate postcard issue. It does appear that the same original artwork was used to make both sets [the exhibit issue isn't a second generation pirated reshoot of the PCs but was made from the same original artwork].

[pencil1974]

I have one that is black and white and does have the Eastern Exhibit info on the back. But like you said it was the same thickness as the other regular Sepia versions. They are at SGC right now getting graded but if any one is interested I can see if I photos or post one when I get them back.

[Exhibitman]

That would go a long way towards resolving this, Brad.

[nolemmings]

Adam, there also were a couple of graded B&W Eastern Exhibits that didn't sell on ebay the last few days, which show the Eastern Exh. Co. cancellation on the back.

[smtjoy]

Brad please post photos of the BW with exhibit back as I have also never seen one. Here are some examples -

http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n182/smtjoy/Exhibit%20Collection/1922%20EE/1922ExhibitUNC-Speaker-35-Both.jpg (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/smtjoy/media/Exhibit%20Collection/1922%20EE/1922ExhibitUNC-Speaker-35-Both.jpg.html)http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n182/smtjoy/Exhibit%20Collection/1922%20EE/22EEXCobb40.jpg (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/smtjoy/media/Exhibit%20Collection/1922%20EE/22EEXCobb40.jpg.html)

The three possible backs-
http://i112.photobucket.com/albums/n182/smtjoy/Exhibit%20Collection/1922%20EE/1922EasternExhibit-BackExamples.jpg (http://s112.photobucket.com/user/smtjoy/media/Exhibit%20Collection/1922%20EE/1922EasternExhibit-BackExamples.jpg.html)

[nolemmings]

Scott, don't these qualify as B&W Eastern Exhibits?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA3Nlg2MjQ=/$T2eC16RHJHIE9nyseIKbBQV5qmsTt!~~60_57.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4Mlg2MjQ=/$(KGrHqN,!iMF!zFerdI1BQgzndv0CQ~~60_57.JPG

[pencil1974]

I have a black and white Galloway and a Sepia Galloway. As I said before they are on their way to SGC but I usually take photos of each card. In this case I don't remember if I did or not but once I get them back I'll post them side by side.

Its a slight difference in tint but you can tell that one is a different color than the other but both are marked with the Eastern info on the back.

[frankh8147]

I compared the color to my Ruth and am very confident in saying, I believe these two are are the basic 1922 Eastern Exhibit cards with a dull sepia color. Although they have a greyish color, the B&W one I have is clearly darker.

Scott, don't these qualify as B&W Eastern Exhibits?
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA3Nlg2MjQ=/$T2eC16RHJHIE9nyseIKbBQV5qmsTt!~~60_57.JPG
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA4Mlg2MjQ=/$(KGrHqN,!iMF!zFerdI1BQgzndv0CQ~~60_57.JPG

[frankh8147]

..

[pencil1974]

I didn't take any photos of the Galloways with the variations are they were commons and only took shots of the HOFers, sorry about that. If the thread is still going and people are interested I'll post them at the end of the month when I get them back from SGC.

[nolemmings]

I see where your Babe Ruth is indeed darker looking. I no longer collect these, but the eastern exhibits I owned looked like the one on the left below--one of these just ended on ebay and the other is there now:
http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverhere/miscellaneous/large/22schang.jpg
So those that look like the one on the right are not B&W but are instead considered a different shade of sepia?

[frankh8147]

I'm very interested to see how the Exhibit experts here weigh in on that; nice picture- that would make for a very wide range of color between true Eastern Exhibits'.
On the other hand, The Exhibits without the company mark on the back seem to be the same shade of black. My only guess would be that the Eastern Exhibits were made like the 48-49 Leaf cards with wide variations based on how much tint was left in the machine. That said, a true B@W (which I have only seen without the Eastern back) with a standard Eastern back would be pretty definitive evidence. I would really appreciate seeing those cards when you get them back. -Frank

I see where your Babe Ruth is indeed darker looking. I no longer collect these, but the eastern exhibits I owned looked like the one on the left below--one of these just ended on ebay and the other is there now:
http://photos.imageevent.com/imoverhere/miscellaneous/large/22schang.jpg
So those that look like the one on the right are not B&W but are instead considered a different shade of sepia?

[Exhibitman]

The plain PC backed cards are true black and white. Very clearly so when viewed in hand. Those two Schangs look different but scans can distort color, especially with different adjacent colors. I once bought what looked like a sepia Cassius Clay exhibit on eBay and was [pleasantly] surprised when a green card arrived. If anyone has a raw pair they can scan together that would be the ideal test.

[nolemmings]

Please let me offer a theory about the card queried by the OP, which theory may have been discussed over the years but I do not recall it. It has to do with Louis Hurwitz, to whom I made reference a few posts back. Some may know that Mr. Hurwitz pirated Exhibit cards for his own purposes, resulting in a lawsuit by the ESCO owner Meyer. The background for what transpired is laid out in a published opinion for those who care to read it– it is short and interesting. Meyer v. Hurwitz, 5 F.2d 370 (E.D. Penn. 1925). As a result of the published opinion, an injunction was issued halting Hurwitz from continuing; I suspect the ultimate outcome of the litigation also required him to relinquish any rights in Eastern Exhibit cards. This could explain why many Eastern Exhibit identifications are canceled and replaced by the well-known Chicago ESCO line. I believe that the thinner exhibit-looking postcards were also Hurwitz’ creation, and that the tints, whether they are different shades of sepia or both sepia and black and white, are also attributed to Hurwitz. Keep in mind I have neither much time nor money invested in collecting Exhibits, but I wanted to get some feedback on this theory, so it can be explored further and/or ruled out.

In the court case from 1925, the judge observed that Hurwitz “began the manufacture and sale of cards substantially similar in subject-matter and in many cases identical with the pictures theretofore and then sold by [Exhibit Supply Co] and so designed as to permit of their being dispensed by the machines in the hands of [ESCO’s] distributors; it being necessary in the use of the cards in the machines that they be of precisely the correct length, breadth, and thickness”. Hurwitz “then adopted the trade name of Eastern Exhibit Supply Company”, which he changed after protest from ESCO to “United Post Card Supply Co.”. According to the Court, Hurwitz then solicited ESCO distributors and sold his own cards to them at a lower price, thereby damaging ESCO through lost business and profits. Importantly to our discussion, the Court also noted “[I]t appears in some instances that cards furnished by Hurwitz have, through lack of thickness identical with that of the plaintiff's cards, caused the machine to fail to function as the plaintiff's cards cause it to do, whereby the intended purchaser, who has deposited his coin, has failed to receive the expected card.” Of course, this too would damage ESCO’s reputation, whose apparently failing machines prominently displayed a notice stating “Man'f'd byExhibit Supply Co. not Inc. Chicago, Ill.”

The long and the short of it was the judge used “the power of a court of equity to restrain such unfair practices”. Hurwitz was shut down. Since this opinion only addressed the issue of a preliminary injunction it is unclear what other damages or relief that ESCO obtained as part of the final case disposition, although such relief (or some settlement) may have included the right of ESCO to obliterate the Eastern Exhibit tag line on the back of the postcards and replace it with its own. It also explains why the Eastern Exhibit company cards were short-lived. Finally, the facts as described might also explain the origin of some of the “thinner” cards that jammed the ESCO machines, although these seem to lack the company ID tagline on the back–maybe they were precursors or were part of Hurwitz’ efforts after he changed his company name. The case does not discuss the issue of various tints to the so-called Eastern Exhibit cards, although one could speculate that Hurwitz was responsible for them through various print runs. Given that ESCO showed a willingness to fight in court, it seems unlikely others would have wanted to get into the business, so if not him, who?

[nolemmings]

BTW, among other interesting tidbits from the case opinion is the statement that Mr. Hurwitz did not begin his involvement with the exhibit machines and cards until “late 1923 ”. Is the current thinking about a 1922 release date for these Eastern Exhibit cards in error? Sorry if this takes the thread too far off topic.

[pencil1974]

Finally got my graded order back from SGC today.

Here are the two Eastern Exhibits one Sepia on the left and the Black and White on the right. Its not a startling difference because there is so much white in this particular image but I did a close up shot too and you can see the difference in color. Backs included to show they are both Eastern Exhibits.

Added to say if you look under a loop you can see the difference a lot more as well.

[frankh8147]

I still think there is a difference..would love to hear some other opinions, this thread really interests me..

[frankh8147]

I see how it looks greyer than the 'norm' for Easterns, but when compared to the B@W, it looks like a completely different color ink was used for the Easterns with the Eastern back than was used for the B@W issue.

[smtjoy]

My Opinion is the ones Brad posted are eastern exhibits where the ink was a little off on the fronts when they were printed (you can see these kind of printing difference in many issues of exhibits especially the 1926-29 PC backed). They are not the same as the Black and White UNC that I feel are a separate issues.

[frankh8147]

My Opinion is the ones Brad posted are eastern exhibits where the ink was a little off on the fronts when they were printed (you can see these kind of printing difference in many issues of exhibits especially the 1926-29 PC backed). They are not the same as the Black and White UNC that I feel are a separate issues.

That is my thought too. That legal case posted on this thread By Todd even provides an origin for this issue..based on the description of the case, there were cards issued that were similar in appearance to the Exhibit issue. If it's not these B@W's, then what could it be? Seems to match up for me.

[Exhibitman]

I agree with Scott. A completely different issue, probably a PC and not arcade related other than the images.

I looked up the case. The statement of facts recites that ESCo made cards and machines and established its distribution format, and that Hurwitz tried to horn in on the business. What it does not say is that the 24 cards we call the Eastern cards were pirated ESCo products, just that Hurwitz had pirated cards:

"Late in 1923, and some months prior to the placing upon the machines of the notices above referred to, the defendant, Louis Hurwitz, purchased on credit from the plaintiff 50 of the machines and an appropriate supply of cards. He failed to complete the payments on the machines and subsequently disposed of them, and then began the manufacture and sale of cards substantially similar in subject-matter and in many cases identical with the pictures theretofore and then sold by the plaintiff and so designed as to permit of their being dispensed by the machines in the hands of the plaintiff's distributors; it being necessary in the use of the cards in the machines that they be of precisely the correct length, breadth, and thickness. The defendant, at first, adopted as his trade-name the title "Eastern Exhibit Supply Company," which, upon protest from the plaintiff, he afterwards changed to "United Post Card Supply Company." The [5 F.2d 371] defendant, through negotiations by correspondence and visits, has sold cards of his own manufacture to the distributors of the plaintiff's cards and has induced them and attempted to induce them to sell his cards, without regard to the notices upon the plaintiff's machine, at lower prices than those of the plaintiff. "

The case goes on to state that the injunction is based on ESCo's distribution scheme, not its cards:

"So far as the defendant's dealings with the plaintiff's distributors are concerned, it is apparent that the facts above stated do not constitute a case of unfair competition under the rule as to passing off, because he has not attempted to represent to the plaintiff's customers that his cards were those of the plaintiff, and hence, in so far as his dealings with the plaintiff's customers are concerned, he cannot be held to have passed off his cards as those of the plaintiff. The plaintiff's machines are not sold under a contract to use exclusively the plaintiff's cards and the cards are not protected by a copyright. The defendant, nevertheless, is, contrary to equity and good conscience, appropriating to himself the system and organization which the plaintiff, through many years of expenditure of effort and money has built up."

Subsequent history has an appeal dismissed in 1926.

So what I am thinking is that Hurwitz started out counterfeiting ESCo cards--which the court states were not copyrighted and therefore not protected--then made his own set of arcade cards [the Easterns], which he gave up after the injunction shut down his arcade activities. Pending appeal, he made a deal with Meyer to have ESCo take over the card stock and imprint with its own address. I am guessing that Hurwitz then made the thin B & W cards as 'straight' postcards under the US Postcard name, which he registered in PA in April 1925 as a fictitious business name. They could not compete with ESCo because they were not capable of being vended from the Esco machinery.

My experience has been that the cards with the line blocked out are much easier to find than the cards with the original EESCo address. That would be consistent with the idea that the originals were issued for a short time before the injunction and the rest were turned over to ESCO for reuse as part of the settlement, when they were imprinted and distributed. It would also account for how few of the Easterns there are as compared to the Chi company's products from the same period.

Also, with the judge noting that the company's cards were not copyrighted hence not protected, ESCo at some point began to register every card. Here is a copyright card from a 1929 issue:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/1929%20Exhibit%20Tenderfoot%20rules%20card%20copyr ight%20sample%201.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/1929%20Exhibit%20Tenderfoot%20rules%20card%20copyr ight%20sample%202.jpg

[JeremyW]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I think I recently picked up a "Hurwitz" exhibit card. Thanks to the posters in this thread for all the info, especially Todd & Adam- nice research guys.

[Exhibitman]

Sure looks like it. Does it feel thinner than an Exhibit?

[JeremyW]

Yes, quite a bit thinner.

[Exhibitman]

Bingo

[frankh8147]

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but I think I recently picked up a "Hurwitz" exhibit card. Thanks to the posters in this thread for all the info, especially Todd & Adam- nice research guys.

Congrats! Nice card.

[MuncieNolePAZ]

I recently picked-up his WaJo which is labeled as an Eastern Exhibit, but believe it might be a Louis Hurwitz PC after reading this thread that Val pointed out to me. Thoughts?

Thanks
Chad