PSA Autograph Rarity Scale

[tazdmb]

Just curious of what some of you think of the scale, does PSA have it right?
http://www.psacard.com/dnasetregistry/setcomposition.aspx?c=37

I think some of it is way off, I think all of the below should not even be included in the General Set (IE-Nearly impossible to find/Bonus Points Category)

Jesse Burkett is a 9 (IE-As rare as Lazzeri and McGraw)
Jack Chesbro, Tommy McCarthy are 10s

Since I have been collecting, I have seen a total of 0 Burkett and McCarthy (legit) autographs offered for sale. Halper had to even steal McCarthy's will to get one in his collection. I know Joshua Tree had a Burkett, but most true collectors believed it to be fake. As for Chesbro, I know of the 1 check that was offered recently as well as the reunion balls in private hands, but it is still an extreme rarity.

Additionally, I would bump Barney Dreyfuss up from the Bonus Points to a 10 or 9 category.

Thoughts?

[packs]

Theoretically Anson and Bulkeley shouldn't be rare at all. Both held public office posts and must have signed a ton of documents. However I realize they may be hard to come by if they're part of public record. Anson was also on Vaudeville for years and toured everywhere.

Wanted to add maybe I'm not understanding the rating system. Ruth and Gehrig are rated 10s too and their signatures aren't rare at all.

[Mr. Zipper]

Ruth and Gehrig are rated 10s too and their signatures aren't rare at all.

Right. And Cobb an 8 which is "rarer" than Campanella? I doubt it.

Is this truly a rarity scale or a scoring scale for the registry? That is, it is higher on the scale due to COST as well as rarity.

[HexsHeroes]

.

. . . on account that for many of the team specific groupings,
the weight = 1 regardless of whether that ballplayer died in 1901
or is still alive. Perhaps PSA put more effort in HOF grouping because
the sheer number of ballplayers is much more manageable. I don't know.

[Klrdds]

It is both a rarity scale and a scoring scale. It does not take into account the condition ,the medium, or the type of writing implement, only the basic fact of the autograph alone... nothing else matters.
The Campanella is for a pre accident signature I have been told.
The scale in my opinion is way off on the rarity side.
I long suspected that it is somewhat based on their opinion based indirectly how many they have graded , as well as their perceived idea of a number of autographs out there.

[RichardSimon]

An autograph registry, just another marketing ploy by PSA, just what the autograph hobby needs. "My ---- is better and bigger then yours."
This is a gimmick by PSA, something to increase the interest in the registry.
They looked around the office one day, pointed to an intern and said draw up a rarity scale. After he said "huh?" they explained to him what they wanted.
So he put a number next to every name.

[tazdmb]

Theoretically Anson and Bulkeley shouldn't be rare at all. Both held public office posts and must have signed a ton of documents. However I realize they may be hard to come by if they're part of public record. Anson was also on Vaudeville for years and toured everywhere.


Anson only held public office for 2 years and most of the stuff during that time and his vaudeville days have be determined to be secretarial signed.

[packs]

I would think that even with a 2 year stint there would have been hundreds of documents that required his signature. He also wrote books, ran for sheriff and owned a semi-pro baseball team. Still, even with the amount of exposure and fame he had, for whatever reason there aren't many of his autographs around. Seems odd.

[Mr. Zipper]

An autograph registry, just another marketing ploy by PSA, just what the autograph hobby needs. "My ---- is better and bigger then yours."

Yep. "Registry Sets" based on a weighted scale is the same thing that was done for coins and comic books. It also helps create brand loyalty because to participate in the registry, the item has to obviously be slabbed and graded by the company running the registry.

Registries need a grading component to work, and I am sure this is why autograph grading has been introduced in addition to basic authentication.

What the hobby really needs is rich guys bragging on chat boards... "My Babe Ruth ball graded an 8 and yours is only a 7! Get a life, LOSER!!"

:D

[RichardSimon]

If PSA's hands were any deeper in some collectors pockets they would have collected even more money :eek:.

[jbhofmann]

BOB FELLER 1.00


seems high.

[tazdmb]

BOB FELLER 1.00


seems high.

That is for an unsigned item :D

[Klrdds]

For what it is worth ( and that is probably nothing):
The weighting of "rarity" is done as we know by PSA , and only by their standards of weighting whatever that may be, because in my opinion and as we all know there are errors in their weighting scores. What is known is that a Babe Ruth ,for example, carries with it a weight of 10 for the set registry no matter whether the signature is on a GPC, 3X5, photo, ball, etc. Now then the autograph grade is a separate issue, and has no bearing on set registry total...that is solely dependent upon only having the item. The value of the item is mainly based on the autograph grade from PSA, medium, etc...
This is where PSA can get you if you are a collector by charging to grade the autograph and also put it in the set registry for comparison to other collections similar to yours.
Personally I do not care to have my set registered , it is no big deal to me. I would rather save the money to buy another item.

[swarmee]

Fundamental misunderstanding in this thread: PSA didn't generate the list or the weights. Whoever requested the registry created the list of names, and submitted a list of whatever weights they suggested. PSA pretty much rubber stamps those lists. To add a player to a list or change a registry weighting scale, PSA will send a message to long-standing members of that registry set with a poll on whether to add/subtract/modify the registry.

So what you're all claiming PSA thinks, is actually what a couple guys who collect those autographs thinks, not really PSA.

[Klrdds]

You make a very good point and I agree. However, PSA is accepting their opinions and/or tacitly sponsoring them by putting their name / rubber stamp on it.
Who are these "individuals"? Are they dealers or collectors or both?
Again as always a few are setting the rules for the many, even if those few are possibly unqualified to do so.

[swarmee]

I am not a dealer and I have already had three registry sets submitted:
T56 Emblem Series http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/composite.aspx?c=6234
T51 Murad College Series Basic Set (All 150 colleges)
T51 Murad College Series Master Set (All 225 cards including variations)
http://www.psacard.com/psasetregistry/setrequests.html
These should get published soon.

Now, I'm a member of one of the fraternal orgs in the T56 series, so I could have changed the weights rather than left them all at 1.
Same with the T51 Master Set; I think I set them all to 1, but the Number on front variations are rarer than the 1-25 cards without them. Maybe whoever decides to compete against me with their T51 set will suggest that change, and I'll accept it.
They have an entire message board over there to discuss registry sets, so you could ask this over there and probably get a better answer from the people who made those requests.

[RichardSimon]

A few are setting the rules and giving PSA a chance for another BS registry idea to rip off more and more collectors.
All for the sake of showing off.

[prewarsports]

Ruth is probably the most common of any player who died before card show autographs. He probably signed half a million autographs in his career if not more. Valuable YES, Rare NO.

Tony Lazzeri is likewise not very difficult. I have owned more than 20 and see them at every card show and all over ebay and major auctions. If you want one, he is readily available.

I consider rare to man "finding it will be difficult" irrespective of price. Many of the 8-9 signatures on that list are not that rare, just pricey.

Just my 2 cents about the weighted system. Too much "weight" put into value and not rarity.

[HexsHeroes]

. . . Personally I do not care to have my set registered , it is no big deal to me. I would rather save the money to buy another item.

Kevin, I like the way you think. I could not agree with you more.

[vthobby]

Kirby is a 1......the same as Bob Feller and Gaylord Perry?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?

There are probably 1000 autos of Feller and Perry for every legit Puckett. Seriously.

:eek:

Crazy!

peace, mike

[Leon]

A few are setting the rules and giving PSA a chance for another BS registry idea to rip off more and more collectors.
All for the sake of showing off.

As devil's advocate why is marketing so bad? Doesn't it help when people get more excited about collecting? Doesn't desirability come from having something that is difficult to obtain (rarity scale)? And if done correctly, weighting the rarity, doesn't seem like a bad thing.

[RichardSimon]

As devil's advocate why is marketing so bad? Doesn't it help when people get more excited about collecting? Doesn't desirability come from having something that is difficult to obtain (rarity scale)? And if done correctly, weighting the rarity, doesn't seem like a bad thing.

Leon,
I think we have differences of opinion about PSA.
You look at the registry sets as a marketing tool.
I look at them as another way for PSA to stick their hands into collectors pockets, strictly for the money grab. Grading and authentication have an alleged purpose but registry sets do not have any purpose except to boost certain collectors egos and to add $$$ to PSA's pockets.

[Leon]

Leon,
I think we have differences of opinion about PSA.
You look at the registry sets as a marketing tool.
I look at them as another way for PSA to stick their hands into collectors pockets, strictly for the money grab. Grading and authentication have an alleged purpose but registry sets do not have any purpose except to boost certain collectors egos and to add $$$ to PSA's pockets.

I look at Registry collecting as a whole other collecting genre. It isn't collecting the way we do it. It is collecting plastic slabs with numbers. I have no issue with it....as long as we call it what it is. They aren't hurting me and are having fun collecting. More power to them. Just my opinion.