Show your T206 card(s) that are more scarce than the JOE DOYLE NAT'L card [Archive]

tedzan

01-07-2015, 04:33 PM

There are only 8 authentic Joe Doyle Nat'L cards confirmed to date.

It has been referred to as the "rarest" T206 card by some in the hobby.

Well....I don't think so ! And I don't think you do either. So, let's see how many T206's we can post here that are more rare than the "rarest".

I will get this show on the road with these four Detroit dudes with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 backs. As of today, each one of these T206's are
less available than the Joe Doyle Nat'L card.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/CobbBatOffAB460x50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/CobbBatOffAB460x50bx.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/Jennings2hdsAB460x50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/Jennings2hdsAB460x50b.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/CrawfordBatAB460x50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/CrawfordBatAB460x50b.jpg

1 of only 2 graded

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/AB460JenningsHandx50.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/AB460JenningsHandx50b.jpg

Incidently, why was my Jennings graded an "A" ....I don't understand how a grader determines if an AB 460 card is trimmed ?
I look forward to any reasonable explanation of this ? ?

OK guys......post your rare T206 cards......also, Joe Doyle Nat'L cards are welcomed :)

TED Z
.

Sean1125

01-07-2015, 04:40 PM

Try to regrade that Jennings imo. Have had more slim ABS graded numerically.

tedzan

01-07-2015, 07:16 PM

Highest graded of only 4 that have been graded

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/T206NeedhamLENOXx50.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/T206NeedhamLENOXb50.jpg

TED Z
.

MVSNYC

01-07-2015, 07:52 PM

Hi Ted- AB 460's are tuffer than most people think...

I used to own this Jennings example, it sold recently on eBay. Seems like it went for a steal.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/T206-Hugh-Hughie-Jennings-HOF-Both-Hands-Showing-American-Beauty-460-Rare-Back-/361159567402?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=Govne6gt%252FNVRqW8GW2Xhlt5tEcs%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Not suggesting this is scarcer than the Doyle (although it might be), but here's my Wheat AB 460.

PS- This Hoblitzel Blank Back is the only known example.

atx840

01-07-2015, 08:43 PM

Not sure this will meet Runscott's no scrap criteria but I would think its a 1/1. :D

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7500/15987562836_958793f081_b.jpg

Robextend

01-07-2015, 08:58 PM

Only 4 graded, however there are probably at least few more out there....

http://photos.imageevent.com/vanslykefan/prewar1/tolstoibacks/websize/Schmidt%20Tolstoi.jpg

One of 4 graded, however this one isn't even showing on the SGC pop report...can't trust those too much I suppose:

http://photos.imageevent.com/vanslykefan/prewar1/tolstoibacks/websize/Tolstoi%20Kelley.jpg

ValKehl

01-07-2015, 10:19 PM

Possibly, this WaJo. Pop reports show 4 for SGC and 1 for PSA (but not mine, which I assume was graded before PSA distinguished backs in its pop report).

GregMitch34

01-08-2015, 03:43 AM

Well, famously, one and only ever created.

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174392&stc=1&d=1420713798

mrvster

01-08-2015, 06:12 AM

and collectors....

:eek:

where to begin.....

shall I unleash the circus???????:confused:

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........

:)

not sure if I want to ruin it before the 2016 national.....;)

mrvster

01-08-2015, 06:27 AM

The scraps are INSANE!!

not to take away from the other cards...but WOW!!!

most scraps are only 1 of 1's....with some with "twins" or "sister" cards, with very few scraps ever had more than 4 twins!!! if you will, saved from the scrap sheet over 100 years ago....

Dunn is on another level....card was part of the design stage of the set....UNREAL!!! proofs will be explained more in the future...we are still researching them, and they are incredible:eek:

true pieces of "history" "works" of ART inmho....

WOW....:eek:

Hobby BB is also another incredible card...possibly involved with the design of the set...blank backs are one of the most under rated scrap/ back in the set inmho(biased of course;))

these cards BLOW Doyle away in rarity....

6 to 8x rarer....

WOW...

you own one....you literally own a piece of history:)

INSANE CARDS

Bigb13

01-08-2015, 06:28 AM

174394

mrvster

01-08-2015, 06:30 AM

be an AWESOME thread.............:eek:

Bigb13

01-08-2015, 06:31 AM

174395

bn2cardz

01-08-2015, 06:55 AM

tedzan

01-08-2015, 07:14 AM

When it is referred to as the rarest t206 that is a reference to the front variations only. If the t206 set was broke out by backs then the different combos would be worth using as a comparison, but since a t206 set collector isn't typically a master set collector there statement of "rarest t206" is only in regards to the front. If it didn't than even the Wagner and Plank Piedmonts would be considered rarer than the Doyle.

I appreciate what you are saying; however, by your definition this Ambrose Puttman card can be considered the "rarest"....as it's back is irrelevant.

Furthermore, you refer to a "typical" T206 collector....it's been my experience dealing with many T206 collectors for the past 33 years....that after they have put together a
near complete T206 set....it doesn't stop there.

The Monster has you "addicted". Many collectors will continue the hunt for player sub-sets with all their possible backs. Or, team sets of players with all their possible backs.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/T206PuttmanPROOFbb_zps3a4c9fba.jpg

TED Z

.

mrvster

01-08-2015, 08:55 AM

:eek:

I was waiting for it!!!!!!! send that to the resource:eek: proof gallery

Bigb13

01-08-2015, 09:18 AM

As fronts variation this is 1 of 1174412

bn2cardz

01-08-2015, 10:45 AM

I appreciate what you are saying; however, by your definition this Ambrose Puttman card can be considered the "rarest"....as it's back is irrelevant.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/T206PuttmanPROOFbb_zps3a4c9fba.jpg

TED Z

.

No by my definition that still wouldn't qualify. That is clearly a t206 proof, not a t206 that was to be mass produced but changed in the process (Like the Doyle and Magie).

[QUOTE=tedzan;1363972]

Furthermore, you refer to a "typical" T206 collector....it's been my experience dealing with many T206 collectors for the past 33 years....that after they have put together a
near complete T206 set....it doesn't stop there.

The Monster has you "addicted". Many collectors will continue the hunt for player sub-sets with all their possible backs. Or, team sets of players with all their possible backs.

TED Z

I didn't refer to a "typical" t206 collector. I referred to a typcial t206 set collector. In which case the set is defined by one of each front with exclusion to what is on the back. There are tough front/back combos but they come into play for other subsets, in which case new "rarities" are defined. For instance if you are trying to build a set of just the backs, you may say the Old Mill Brown is the rarest, and Piedmont 350 is the easiest to find even though a Shaw Piedmont 350 isn't easy. So you are mixing two thought processes.

Your original statement about the rarest t206 being the Doyle is made in reference to building a front set not in regards to a full Master Set with all the front and back combos.

tedzan

01-08-2015, 12:41 PM

No by my definition that still wouldn't qualify. That is clearly a t206 proof, not a t206 that was to be mass produced but changed in the process (Like the Doyle and Magie).

I didn't refer to a "typical" t206 collector. I referred to a typcial t206 set collector. In which case the set is defined by one of each front with exclusion to what is on the back.

Andy

"RARITY" .... is a function of a market driven phenomena. Therefore, it is collector based. And, there are a fair number of T206 collectors that seek certain front / back combos,
printing flaws, and yes...Proofs. I think you will agree that not all collectors strive to complete a 520-card (or whatever) T206 set.

Secondly, Sports and Non-Sports Sets since the 19th Century that are comprised of cards that have printing on their fronts and backs are defined by both factors. They cannot
be considered separate entities [i.e. Set A (fronts), Set B (backs)].

I do not want to get into a semantics discussion here. That's not the purpose of this thread. It was intended to have some fun showing off Net54er's various scarce T206 cards.

TED Z
.

tedzan

01-08-2015, 03:39 PM

1 of only 2 graded (Highest graded)
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/UZITHerzogSGC45.jpg . http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/herzogUZITx50b.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/schaeferUZITx50.jpghttp://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/schaeferUZITx50b.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/UZITWiltse50.jpg .http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/UZITWiltse50b.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/WiltseCapUZITx50.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/uzit.jpg

TED Z
.

Runscott

01-08-2015, 03:45 PM

Not sure this will meet Runscott's no scrap criteria but I would think its a 1/1. :D

https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7500/15987562836_958793f081_b.jpg

Hey, my suggested thread was ignored, so leave me out of this.

Beautiful proof, by the way.

tedzan

01-08-2015, 05:56 PM

Ted, why don't you start a thread "T206's that are more scarce than a T206 Wagner"?

Hey, my suggested thread was ignored, so leave me out of this.

So, what is thread about....if it isn't what you suggested ? ?

I changed the "benchmark" to the Joe Doyle Nat'l card, since this card is an order of magnitude less available than the Wagner card.
Just to make things more interesting.

T-Rex TED
.

wolf441

01-08-2015, 06:23 PM

tedzan

01-09-2015, 07:09 AM

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/schaeferUZITx50b.jpg

Ted, I think that Germany Schaeffer UZIT is one of the coolest cards that I've ever seen!!

I'm sure my first Uzit is still a few years down the road, but that is the type of card that I would want. It would probably only grade authentic, but I think the punch out pattern makes it all that much more interesting!! Once again, I'm floored by one of your cards! :D

Great thread everyone!!

This Schaefer card is the first UZIT that I acquired when I started putting together my T206 sub-set of the various T-brands.
I got this card at the Cooperstown Show in the Summer of 1989. I paid only $20 for it.

Also, I like the bold blue ink back on this card. Many UZIT cards have pale blue backs.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/schaeferUZITx50.jpg

TED Z
.

MVSNYC

01-09-2015, 07:26 AM

Ted- yes, majority of Uzits have faded backs...here's mine, one of the boldest i've ever seen.

tedzan

01-09-2015, 03:05 PM

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/OldMillCrandall25x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/OMMcGrawFordDevore50x.jpg
.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/OldMillCrandall25xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/OMMcGrawFordDevore25b.jpg

TED Z
__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____________
LOOKING for these T206 guys to complete my EXCLUSIVE 12 run of OLD MILL cards (12 subjects)

..... Duffy ..... Gandil ..... Geyer ..... Hummel ..... Pfeffer ..... Sheckard ..... Tannehill ..... Wheat
.

edjs

01-09-2015, 09:36 PM

So I asked Ted if my Mullin SC 350/460 Fac. 42 OP was more rare than the Doyle, and he suggested I post it here and get feedback from you all. So, what do you think? It is not too pretty, and not worth a lot, but just how rare is it? Just for fun.

Ed

kdixon

01-10-2015, 06:34 AM

Ungraded Wheat.

tedzan

01-10-2015, 07:59 AM

The AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 Zach Wheat cards are quite plentiful. And, so are the 11 other T206 subjects in the group of T206's that I refer to as the "Exclusive 12".

These 12 subjects were multi-printed with respect to other T206's in the 460 series. Some of the tougher backs that these guys are more available than other T206's
are red HINDU, SOVEREIGN 460, and SWEET CAPORAL 460 (Factory 42).

The backs that these 12 guys are rarely found with are CYCLE 460, EPDG, and especially OLD MILL and UZIT.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/ABgandufshetanpfegey25xx_zpsb4c9f545.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/ABwhecrafordevmcghum25xa_zps9075c421.jpg

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25xx_zpsd9aaa81f.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25xx_zpsd9aaa81f.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25xx_zpsd9aaa81f.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB460back25x_zpse7fbc4a7.jpg

TED Z
.

tedzan

01-10-2015, 12:29 PM

Check-out this AMERICAN BEAUTY (http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=158706) thread in order to get an idea which AB 460 subjects are the low Pop cards.

Also, if you are interested, I will list them.

TED Z
.

tedzan

01-10-2015, 07:19 PM

I acquired this BROAD LEAF Hal Chase many years ago in a trade with a great ole buddy of mine from North Carolina. Little did I know at that time that it was unique.
Well, this past year a 2nd BROAD LEAF Hal Chase has been discovered.

............................................... v....... 1 of only 2 ........v
....http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/T206ChaseQuintuplcate75x_zps7b4c1e51.jpg....v
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/ChaseABxBLxCOxCYx25_zpsba988b1a.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/T206DRUMx75b_zpse3dad638.jpg

TED Z
.

tedzan

01-11-2015, 02:27 PM

I forgot to note in the previous post that the 1910 COUPON blue portrait Chase is another low pop card.
I cannot say for sure how many of these T213's are in circulation; but, only 4 blue Chase's are graded.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/T213x1blueCHASE25x.jpg . http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/T213x1blueCHASEx25b.jpg

TED Z
.

Sean

01-11-2015, 02:57 PM

Runscott

01-11-2015, 03:16 PM

What I like to call the "Wiltse Devil on my Shoulder"

Certainly one-of-a-kind, AND actually production, not scrap.

atx840

01-11-2015, 04:48 PM

I got your back Ted.

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3826/10860386466_c1180266f9_c_d.jpg

tedzan

01-11-2015, 05:51 PM

Ted, only you would post a Type-1 Coupon in a thread for T206s. :D

It may surprise you, but there are a fair number of guys on this forum that agree with me.

I have yet to hear any logical arguments that disproves my case for these 1910 " COUPON " cards being a part of the T206 family.

The old bromide....."because Burdick says so".....just aint good enough.

Sean.....if it quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, then it's a T206 :)

TED Z
.

Bigb13

01-11-2015, 06:37 PM

Great card Scott

tedzan

01-11-2015, 07:04 PM

Pop reports indicate only 6 graded of this tough Cy Young / CYCLE 460

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/acycle460cyoung.jpg.http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/cycle460cyoung.jpg

TED Z
.

Thirteen

01-11-2015, 07:17 PM

One of my favorites...don't think there are many of these (?)

Jantz

01-11-2015, 09:26 PM

mrvster

01-11-2015, 10:07 PM

100 % correct! a factory cut magenta ghost like that is super rare! very neat production error.............:D

Sean

01-11-2015, 10:07 PM

It may surprise you, but there are a fair number of guys on this forum that agree with me.

I have yet to hear any logical arguments that disproves my case for these 1910 " COUPON " cards being a part of the T206 family.

The old bromide....."because Burdick says so".....just aint good enough.

Sean.....if it quacks like a duck, and waddles like a duck, then it's a T206 :)

TED Z
.

Ted, it doesn't surprise me, because we've had this discussion many times.

My vote is not a T206 based on the different card stock. Maybe we should have a poll: T213 type-1 should or shouldn't be in the T206 set?
Same with the T215 type-1.

edjs

01-11-2015, 10:37 PM

More Mullin(with bat) SC 460-42 OP than Doyle Nat'l

Around 2 - 1

Jantz

Thanks, Jantz. I really was curious, and I am happy to hear that ratio. Means this card is still pretty darn rare.
Ed

tedzan

01-12-2015, 06:46 AM

Ted, it doesn't surprise me, because we've had this discussion many times.

My vote is not a T206 based on the different card stock. Maybe we should have a poll: T213 type-1 should or shouldn't be in the T206 set?
Same with the T215 type-1.

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:

American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.

P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.

TED Z
.

Sean

01-12-2015, 10:08 AM

P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.

This sounds like every election held in America. And considering how well our elected government is working, you're right: a vote would be meaningless. :rolleyes:

Runscott

01-12-2015, 11:01 AM

...
P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.

TED Z
.

That logic makes perfect sense.

Only the informed should be allowed to vote, and why not take it a step further and allow only the single MOST informed person to vote?

Ted, I agree with your logic, and I'll choose Burdick - I think he's as good a choice as any. If I were part of the pitchfork-carrying crowd storming the castle, I would be demanding that Burdick be my T206 dictator and do all of my thinking for me.

…or it could be Ted, it doesn't matter.

tedzan

01-12-2015, 11:47 AM

We live in a " 1/3 world " ............
http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/washingtoncrossingeve.jpg
For example, did you know when George Washington crossed the Delaware river December 24th 1776 to attack Trenton, he had only 33 % of the Colonists
supporting him and his mission......

...... 33 % of the Colonists were loyal to the British, and

...... the other 33% couldn't be bothered to care, either way.

So, here we are 238 years since, and these same factors in human nature still exist.

Therefore, you know what...... I don't care who disagrees with me (and some members of this forum) ...... who believe that the 1910 COUPON cards are a
natural extension of the T206 set.

Incidently, if you really want to be informed, check-out Burdick's records and you'll find that his timeline on all three COUPON sets is 1914 - 1916.

So, we cannot fault him......he was unaware that the first series of COUPON cards were actually printed and issued in the Summer of 1910.

TED Z
.

asoriano

01-12-2015, 11:59 AM

http://i59.tinypic.com/140gsuo.png

Runscott

01-12-2015, 12:54 PM

We live in a " 1/3 world "......

For example, did you know when George Washington crossed the Delaware river December 24th 1776 to attack Trenton, he had only 33 % of the Colonists
supporting him and his mission......

...... 33 % of the Colonists were loyal to the British, and

...... the other 33% couldn't be bothered to care, either way.

So, here we are 238 years since, and these same factors in human nature still exist.

Therefore, you know what...... I don't care who disagrees with me (and some members of this forum) ...... who believe that the 1910 COUPON cards are a
natural extension of the T206 set.

Incidently, if you really want to be informed, check-out Burdick's records and you'll find that his timeline on all three COUPON sets is 1914 - 1916.

So, we cannot fault him......he was unaware that the first series of COUPON cards were actually printed and issued in the Summer of 1910.

TED Z
.

And Ted, a big part of our hobby is categorizing things. Even as children, most of us piled up our cards by team, by position, by stats or even combined cards from different years. So I would never minimize the importance of deciding where the Coupons should be included.

In fact, I think I agreed with you on this, but having spoken with other forum members about this subject in depth, I think this topic is much like sheet-size - we'll never really know, so any well-thought-out theory defense is worth listening to, and certainly shouldn't cause anything more than heated discussion.

mrvster

01-12-2015, 01:56 PM

Runscott

01-12-2015, 02:03 PM

That Ames Is INSANE!!

collectors haven't grasped yet the importance of those sweet cap 350-460 factory 30 NO OVERSTAMP!! :eek:that back is not possible with that player factory issued!! you got yours just in time......Jim R always stated how important and cool those y/b's sc 460's are.....

PLEASE POST THE IMPOSSIBLE COMBINATION BACK!:eek:

Once Chris B posts what we know so far, the will be highly sought after....

:)

hint.....hint..............;)

Johnny, I think the T206 scrap collectors DO realize the "importance" of these, but I think getting other card collectors to feel the same way is not only going to be difficult, but I don't think you and the other scrap collectors should really want that.

The 'problem' (from your point of view, not mine) is that the T206 issue is the only one where print scraps are considered worth multi-thousands of dollars. And that value is placed by you guys, by bidding against each other. The rest of the collecting world respects the market values that you are establishing and will certainly pay high prices if they think they can re-sell them to you later for a profit, but as far as "importance"…not so much.

tedzan

01-12-2015, 02:20 PM

http://i59.tinypic.com/140gsuo.png

Really rare and a great card......thanks for posting it.

TED Z
.

mrvster

01-12-2015, 02:22 PM

as the collectors become more advanced and understand the set more , they will become to appreciate these more and desire them more....hence values/ prices will sore....sorry to disappoint you....you should have held onto your scrap ....you literally lost tens of thousands, could see why your a little turned from T206 scrap:D

I would be to if I let go all my scraps that wound up being 10-15 times what I sold them for!:eek:

THANK GOD I HAVEN'T SOLD MINE:D

I wasn't saying the collectors don't understand in a "bad" way, they just haven't been educated on them yet....we are still discovering more everyday about the production through these gems and clues......with out them, we can't truly understand the set the way we have....:)

how many t206 collectors realize that ames hand over head is not available factory issued with that back??? probably not a lot, until they reference the

the possible back combo's and see they are possible(unless you include the 6 superprints).....ON t206resource.com

scott, your just jealous cause you lost out big time when you dumped your awesome scrap back in the day....:D....AND TOOK A BATH I'M SURE....I still wish I grabbed some more....ROB is happy;)

don't hate....

you dumped that overprint downey that I couldn't even try to afford!!

btw....I haven't bid on any cards in a long time ......funds have been tight...

so , I personally know the "thin" scrap market you talk about a few guys running up the prices has expanded through education....

I respect your ground breaking research on the matter, and do respect you, but can't help to set you straight sir..

yes my friend, you must be kicking your self for letting an 8k card go for a song back in the day, or any of the others.....

and now you must hate:)

embrace that collectors are truly starting to appreciate these gems.....:)

and...

btw...
to burst your bubble, most sets or issues aren't even close to as popular as the T206 set...

:D

just a matter of time...

c'mon scott.....

respectfully

JOHN VANDERBECK

asoriano

01-12-2015, 02:49 PM

how many t206 collectors realize that ames hand over head is not available factory issued with that back???

Learning something new everyday. Very cool!

http://i57.tinypic.com/2ch04qo.png

mrvster

01-12-2015, 02:49 PM

Runscott

01-12-2015, 03:07 PM

I have to say, was not fair of me to "rub salt" in your face, Scott...:o...we have all regretted letting some cool cards go, and that wasn't right...:o
didn't want to seem like I was gloating in your loss..

was a low blow....I do not mean to kick a man when down....:o

was not right of me....

the scrap will speak for itself:)

It's funny that you still aren't willing to give up on that line of thinking and you try it again each time I question the prices being paid for your beloved printer scraps. I sold all of mine at a profit, and used the profit to buy other things, which I again sold at a profit - I'm probably still earning money off of the scraps I sold ten years ago.

Sounds like the regret is on your end, but I won't try to guess what's hurting you so bad other than possibly the inability to obtain all these wonderful cards you keep gloating over? ;)

Just try using logic to explain your thinking - it works better than the proverbial straw man :rolleyes:

mrvster

01-12-2015, 03:34 PM

Runscott

01-12-2015, 03:55 PM

you said it right "beloved" scrap......most of the scrap "chasers" I know have been tapped! you can ask them yourself....most of the "players" have stepped aside to let others have at them.(scrap)..

I'm sure you have made some profit, but try to buy downey back:)...or some others....with these one- of- a- kinds, sometimes money just won't do it:)

there is a whole new arena of collectors entering the scene who have caught on.......and now desire these true gems...

they will continue to catch on.....

it's kinda of "bitter sweet" for me....

the cards are finally starting to get the recognition they truly deserve

although out of my reach...

not bitter, but happy now I have an incredible collection....regardless of value, I love them!! anyone who truly knows me, knows this is the truth......

am I a crusader?? possibly.....:confused:

some call me the "Grand daddy of scrap" "scrap master"....a true "pioneer"...

I know one thing.....card board gold:)

Very well-said Johny.

you might have made profit , but can't bring those back to you...

who is the bitter one??:rolleyes:

Uh-oh, there you go again. So are you jealous over my having had cards at one time that you now love? Or is it something else? If it helps you any, I've probably only owned about 15 scraps, but I've owned literally thousands of other cards, as well as thousands of other pieces of sports memorabilia. Am I "bitter" over those items as well? Please give me a list of all of the cards I have owned that I am now bitter over. It doesn't matter much to me, but it might prove to be therapeutic for you. P.S. - stay away from sharp objects while you are creating the list.

mrvster

01-12-2015, 04:04 PM

you know those are the ones you truly miss;):D............

thousands of pieces and only a few scraps??? puts it in perspective:D....

Runscott

01-12-2015, 04:05 PM

you know those are the ones you truly miss;):D............

thousands of pieces and only a few scraps??? puts it in perspective:D....

It really does. I bought a single example of each scrap type, for use in writing an article, while I bought multiple example of other items that I had more of an interest in. Don't get me wrong - I enjoyed my collection of scraps while I had them.

If it makes you feel any better, I can list for you all of the items that I miss, in order. My T206 Jacklitsch proof would make the list, as would my T205 Reulbach scrap and my T206 Reulbach brown Hindu ledger page. Probably also one of the BL460's. Does that help any? Probably odd to you, but my miscut backs didn't do much for me other than earn a good profit when sold. I did like the upside-down Piedmont that was perfectly upside-down, but quite frankly - it looked like a normal card from either side :)

The item I miss most out of anything I ever sold was my 1909 Pittsburg team supplement that once hung in Wagner's office.

Bigb13

01-12-2015, 06:18 PM

Rob loves his Scraps

tedzan

01-13-2015, 07:43 AM

OK guys....lets switch this train back onto the mainline tracks.

Only a few of these 3 subjects with CB backs have been graded (less than 5 each).
.http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/CBdkcapChaseMaddoxArell50xb_zpsee2692e2.jpg
http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/CBdkcapChaseMaddoxArell_zps0ddc20c9.jpg

Clymer / CB is equal to Doyle in the number of cards graded.
.http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/CBclymer100x_zps831d50b0.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/CBclymer100xb_zps05c91ebb.jpg

TED Z
.

mrvster

01-13-2015, 08:43 AM

sorry 'bout that:o

this one's for you ;)

tedzan

01-13-2015, 09:23 AM

Learning something new everyday. Very cool!

http://i57.tinypic.com/2ch04qo.png

American Lithographic ran thru final press runs of SWEET CAPORAL 460 (Factory #30) cards from the 350/460 series (of which your unique Ames is in). However,
the 57 subjects in this series were never issued with Factory #30 backs.

Circa late 1910 (or early 1911), in anticipation of the ATC divestiture, these SWEET CAP cards were overprinted with Factory #42 (Durham, NC) and shipped there
to be inserted in SWEET CAP cigarette packs.

Here is a Factory #42 overprint which is sufficiently off-set that it reveals the original Factory #30 lettering.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/willettsc460fact42ovpt75x.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/SWEETCAPf42ovpt50x.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/SWEETCAPf42ovptLowerview.jpg

TED Z
.

Runscott

01-13-2015, 11:21 AM

Sorry for derailing Ted's show :)

tedzan

01-13-2015, 01:54 PM

No problem......"rail-on" all you want....it's entertaining :)

TED Z
.

mrvster

01-13-2015, 03:30 PM

thanks for illustrating...........:D

I'm dying for Chris to release some of his research in this error scrap back...

then you will see guys trying to "re assemble" the sheet....using these scrap pieces as puzzle pieces!

it's awesome shit!:D

these sc 460 no overprint scraps will be chased...

I want to put together the subset:)

Turner just picked up a tiny piece of history!

I'm on 6 of these.....and 1 of them is the only known specimen that I do own...

Mc intyre....

like magee w/ bat, donlin, ect....Chris will elaborate:D when he is ready;)

this one goes out to Jim R, Mike S, and Chris for his research help with me;)

tedzan

01-14-2015, 03:05 PM

To date, known examples..........

Only 5 .................................................. ............................................... Only 6
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/ChanceSOV460xx50.jpg. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/Chance1910Coupon50.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/ChanceSOV460xx50b.jpg . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/Chance1910Coupon50b.jpg

TED Z
.

T206Collector

01-14-2015, 03:13 PM

I'm gonna call 1-of-1 on these signed T206s...

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/zVZtUgKvYNgjQWK8PNLz3DiJm_Z5QsNdec5_I7WHZRE?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-oeCWC2P6mAA/T7wz-iODO7I/AAAAAAAAKyY/MVkZIoZ99gc/s800/Johnson_SGC_A.jpg" height="800" width="499" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/swNQV2bixh6GcZAeoJci_jiJm_Z5QsNdec5_I7WHZRE?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-OhVpYz1aRys/TAAOGsOSADI/AAAAAAAAik8/l-ciBdq4zr8/s800/image0-2.jpg" height="800" width="501" /></a>

<a href="https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/9JThsZG2x8u9YDxbx6mrFDiJm_Z5QsNdec5_I7WHZRE?feat=e mbedwebsite"><img src="https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-iQ_phCjfIIU/S7FELuCjRqI/AAAAAAAAgFM/Uk4gnYLSz0s/s800/Clarke%2520Batting%2520Auto%2520SGC%252010.jpg" height="800" width="499" /></a>

Runscott

01-14-2015, 03:24 PM

This Keeler portrait has a pair of parallel horizontal parallel creases running through the top of his hair. I've never seen another example.

DerekMichael

01-15-2015, 01:13 AM

The combination itself is not so exciting I suppose, but this card was once owned by former MLB Commissioner Bowie Kuhn.

If I understand correctly, when Kuhn was a child he used to work the scoreboard for the Washington Senators, which was owned by Clark Griffith, and he was given the card as a gift at the time and kept it until he passed away.

Neat-O.

Derek

ullmandds

01-15-2015, 07:07 AM

This Keeler portrait has a pair of parallel horizontal parallel creases running through the top of his hair. I've never seen another example.

Scott...that's a beauty...you deserve that card!

tedzan

01-15-2015, 01:23 PM

Tough red Cobb's......to date, there are:

Less than 6 known
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/CobbSovereign460x25bx.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/RedCobbSOVEREIGN460x38.jpg

8 known
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/1910COUPONredCobb75xb.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/1910couponcobb50x.jpg

TED Z
.

FrankWakefield

01-15-2015, 08:33 PM

mrvster

01-15-2015, 09:05 PM

:eek:

thanks for the cobb # Ted;)

tedzan

01-16-2015, 05:08 AM

I think these two cards would qualify...

What do you guys think?

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/greatwake/CobbandRandallfront.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/greatwake/media/CobbandRandallfront.jpg.html)

http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/greatwake/CobbandRandallreverse.jpg (http://s78.photobucket.com/user/greatwake/media/CobbandRandallreverse.jpg.html)

A really great looking Ty Cobb card. There are less than 8 of them with the American Beauty 460 back.

Also, it appears that your Newt Randall card is unique with the Broad Leaf 350 back. I cannot find another one in any of the TPG's pop reports.

Best regards, my friend.

TED Z
.

ullmandds

01-16-2015, 08:58 AM

My only "qualifier" coming soon to an AH near u.

frankbmd

01-16-2015, 09:01 AM

My only "qualifier" coming soon to an AH near u.

Pronounce that.

tedzan

01-16-2015, 03:05 PM

1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-2 ..................................... 1-of-2
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50.jpg

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50b.jpg

TED Z
.

wolf441

01-16-2015, 03:16 PM

DixieBaseball

01-16-2015, 05:29 PM

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:

American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.

P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.

TED Z
.

Here's my contribution to this thread : Carton & T206-13 card

DixieBaseball

01-16-2015, 05:29 PM

If that is the only reason you have, then please consider this:

American Litho. printed these cards in the Spring/Summer of 1910 on thinner stock because they were not intended to serve as "stiffeners" in cigarette
packs (as the other T206's did). NO standard cigarette pack labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes has been found. I don't expect that one will ever be found.

1910 COUPON cigarettes were marketed in cartons (11" x 3" x 2") labelled "COUPON" Cigarettes that contained 100's of this new brand of cigarettes.

The 1910 COUPON cards were included with (or inside) the carton. A few of these cartons have been found....I have seen one of them.

P.S.
A poll would be meaningless, since there would be many uninformed in this subject voting in it.

TED Z
.

Whoops... Here's another one more rare than Doyle...

tedzan

01-17-2015, 08:04 AM

Here's my contribution to this thread : Carton & T206-13 card

Thanks for posting the COUPON Cigarettes carton.

I think that carton is circa 1914....and, maybe associated with T213-2 (or T213-3) cards.

The carton that I saw years ago was very similar to yours; however the brand name was labelled " COUPON " ....which implies circa 1910.
And, I don't recall the Liggett & Myers lettering.

Take care, good buddy.

TED Z
.

DixieBaseball

01-17-2015, 08:23 AM

Thanks for posting the COUPON Cigarettes carton.

I think that carton is circa 1914....and, maybe associated with T213-2 (or T213-3) cards.

The carton that I saw years ago was very similar to yours; however the brand name was labelled " COUPON " ....which implies circa 1910.
And, I don't recall the Liggett & Myers lettering.

Take care, good buddy.

TED Z
.

Thanks Ted - . I would love to see the "Coupon" carton that you mentioned. In reading your reply, I am not sure what differentiates my carton and the one one you are talking about... (I have no real opinion either way and certainly not sure of the time frame of this Carton I own, but know its pretty old) Perhaps, the 1910 Carton says... "Coupon Mild" and mine says Coupon Cigarettes??

tedzan

01-17-2015, 08:59 AM

mrvster

01-17-2015, 09:01 AM

beauty of an Ellam:eek:

lmk if you ever want to trade:D

DixieBaseball

01-17-2015, 09:27 AM

I think the tell-tale clue here is the Liggett & Myers label.

I think that L & M manufactured the COUPON brand after ATC's divestiture (circa 1911- 1912).

The 1910 COUPON was strictly an ATC brand.

I will search for a pix of the " COUPON " Cigarettes carton.

TED Z
.

Ted - That makes some sense. I will take this to email with you, so this thread doesn't get too sidetracked... Is Liggett & Myers on the reverse of any other brands besides 1914 Victory tobacco cards ?

tedzan

01-17-2015, 03:18 PM

The break-up of the American Tobacco Co. (May 1911) resulted in the re-assignment of the following brands............

Liggett & Myers was given these cigarette brands:

Piedmont
Fatima
American Beauty
Home Run
Imperiales
Coupon
King Bee
Fatima

P. Lorillard was given these cigarette brands:

Helmar
Egyptian Deities
Turkish Trophies
Murad
Mogul
and,
all straight Turkish brands

American Tobacco Co. retained these cigarette brands:

Pall Mall (its expensive all-Turkish brand, named for a fashionable London street)
Sweet Caporal
Hassan
Mecca

TED Z
.

t206fix

01-17-2015, 06:14 PM

You need to write a book! Not joking a bit. Your knowledge of the t206 set is amazing.

tedzan

01-18-2015, 08:33 PM

.................................................. 1-of-8 .................................................. .................................. 1-of-2
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/alundgren4versions.jpg
.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/blundgren4versions.jpg

T-Rex TED
.

mrvster

01-18-2015, 09:28 PM

Scrap off the chain:eek:

wolf441

01-19-2015, 06:02 AM

Scrap off the chain:eek:

For Ted's benefit, I'll translate:

"That Lundgren scrap is really, really nice!!" :D

I'm just a guy that relates to all generations! ;)

tedzan

01-19-2015, 08:25 AM

You need to write a book! Not joking a bit. Your knowledge of the t206 set is amazing.

I really appreciate the compliment.

I think I have shared most of my T206 knowledge with everyone on this forum since April 2005.

Should I go back 10 years and review all my posts regarding T206's in order to compile a book......perhaps so.

However, I enjoy the free association of thought that we all enjoy on Net54 every day; and, I find that more meaningful.

Take care,

TED Z
.

mrvster

01-19-2015, 03:36 PM

:)

Lundgren is FreakN insane:eek:

tedzan

01-19-2015, 10:26 PM

Scrap off the chain:eek:

:)

Lundgren is FreakN insane:eek:

I dig you dude :)

T-Rex TED
.

tedzan

01-20-2015, 03:11 PM

ullmandds

01-20-2015, 03:14 PM

what'd u pay for it Ted????

tedzan

01-20-2015, 03:17 PM

Do you really want to know ?

TED Z
.

wolf441

01-20-2015, 03:18 PM

.........30 years ago, I acquired my first T206 DRUM card from Barry Sloate.....this Danny Moeller card.

Then, 7 years ago I helped Barry Arnold with his T206 backs sub-set when I sent him this unique T206.

I don't know of another Moeller/DRUM card. Checking out the pop reports of PSA and SGC, you will find
only this one (SGC A).

If anyone on this forum knows of another one, please chime in.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/bmoellerdrum.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/amoellerdrum.jpg

TED Z
.

It makes you wonder exactly how many Drum cards were distributed? Don't you wish someone would stumble across some sort of ATC receipt/printing order? Even for just one back type, it would be incredible to know XXX many cards were produced and now 100+ years later, XXX many cards remain...

ullmandds

01-20-2015, 03:21 PM

$5?

freakhappy

01-20-2015, 04:05 PM

$5.01

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tedzan

01-21-2015, 09:20 AM

$5?

I can never take you serious :)

Anyhow, here is the story....the entire story. By circa 1985, I had acquired 12 of the T206 backs for my T-brand sub-set. I figured the DRUM was to be
the toughest of the basic 17 brands that I was looking for to complete this run.

Barry Sloate helped me with several tough backs; and, found this Moeller card. DRUM cards (if you could find them) back then were selling for $200 to
$400 (Vg to Ex cards). Barry offered this card to me for $100.

Summer of '08, Toby Peterson emailed me to offer me a Frank Delehanty DRUM card. I needed this card to complete my first "A--B--C--D" connection.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50b.jpg

Therefore, I called Barry Arnold, since I knew he needed a DRUM card for his T206 back's run. I let him have this Moeller card for $99.

"That's All Folks"

TED Z
.

ullmandds

01-21-2015, 09:40 AM

I can never take you serious :)

Anyhow, here is the story....the entire story. By circa 1985, I had acquired 12 of the T206 backs for my T-brand sub-set. I figured the DRUM was to be
the toughest of the basic 17 brands that I was looking for to complete this run.

Barry Sloate helped me with several tough backs; and, found this Moeller card. DRUM cards (if you could find them) back then were selling for $200 to
$400 (Vg to Ex cards). Barry offered this card to me for $100.

Summer of '08, Toby Peterson emailed me to offer me a Frank Delehanty DRUM card. I needed this card to complete my first "A--B--C--D" connection.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50b.jpg

Therefore, I called Barry Arnold, since I knew he needed a DRUM card for his T206 back's run. I let him have this Moeller card for $99.

"That's All Folks"

TED Z
.

Ted...I WAS serious!!!!!!! 30 yrs ago? why not only $5????? After I guessed $5 I was thinking maybe u got it in a lot for even less???

I picked up my only drum...now long gone at a silver spring armory show around 1992 for $37. The Solly Hofman that Chris B used to own.

tedzan

01-22-2015, 02:58 PM

Ted...I WAS serious!!!!!!! 30 yrs ago? why not only $5????? After I guessed $5 I was thinking maybe u got it in a lot for even less???

I picked up my only drum...now long gone at a silver spring armory show around 1992 for $37. The Solly Hofman that Chris B used to own.

OK, you paid $37 for your Hofman.....of which there are 2 graded, and a possible 3rd exists (as, it's been rumored).

I paid $100 for Moeller.....and, only one exists.

Therefore, if this stuff is a linear factor, since my DRUM is 3 times more rare than your Hofman.....our purchase prices are equivalent.

Anyhow, that's how my engineering mind sees this :)

TED Z
.

barrysloate

01-23-2015, 06:00 AM

Bieg

01-23-2015, 10:05 AM

Do you mean there are only 3 of these known or 3 in YOUR collection?

You have to excuse me I am new at this and just trying to understand the million different intricacies of these T206s

176370

1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-3 .................................... 1-of-2 ..................................... 1-of-2
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50.jpg

.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/FrankDelahantyABCDx50b.jpg

TED Z
.

mrvster

01-23-2015, 10:38 AM

now you guys figured out how to really enjoy them! kudos!;):)

Bieg

01-23-2015, 10:44 AM

I am more confused than ever. :)

now you guys figured out how to really enjoy them! kudos!;):)

mrvster

01-23-2015, 11:25 AM

by enjoying the cards and sharing scans and interest with other collectors like us:)

that's the beauty of them...............:D

Bieg

01-23-2015, 11:31 AM

My wife, whose collection these are from, loves looking at the cards and then reading about each player especially from the book "The Glory Of Their Times" which recounts many stories as told by the actual players themselves.

by enjoying the cards and sharing scans and interest with other collectors like us:)

that's the beauty of them...............:D

ullmandds

01-23-2015, 11:32 AM

does your wife have a single sister who likes baseball?

Bieg

01-23-2015, 11:33 AM

Sorry no. :)

does your wife have a single sister who likes baseball?

Bieg

01-23-2015, 11:35 AM

She even loves watching Formula 1 and BBC Top Gear with me, as a matter of fact Top Gear is her favorite show! I am a Gear Head and racing fanatic as much as you guys are fanatical about these cards so I am in heaven! :)

does your wife have a single sister who likes baseball?

ullmandds

01-23-2015, 11:36 AM

dammit! many of us fancy cars too!

tedzan

01-23-2015, 02:26 PM

Do you mean there are only 3 of these known or 3 in YOUR collection?

You have to excuse me I am new at this and just trying to understand the million different intricacies of these T206s

176370

My wife, whose collection these are from, loves looking at the cards and then reading about each player especially from the book "The Glory Of Their Times" which recounts many stories as told by the actual players themselves.

There were only 3 known......now with your wife's American Beauty (AB) Frank Delehanty the are 4 known. It's quite a rare T206 card with an AB back.

Tell your wife....her Delehanty card is one of the nicest looking T206 AB cards that I have seen. And, I have seen many AB cards.

Also, since she enjoys reading about these T206 guys, tell her that Frank Delehanty in 1903 (only 20 years old) had the sad task of identifying the body
his brother, "Big Ed" Delehanty, who had died mysteriously at Niagara Falls.

Thanks for posting.

TED Z
.

Bieg

01-23-2015, 03:01 PM

Wow, so what would that make it worth? Does the rarity of this Delehanty make it worth more than her Cobb Red Portrait AB Back in similar condition?

I assume rarity and condition is not the only factor in determining the value.

Thanks for the help guys.

There were only 3 known......now with your wife's American Beauty (AB) Frank Delehanty the are 4 known. It's quite a rare T206 card with an AB back.

Tell your wife....her Delehanty card is one of the nicest looking T206 AB cards that I have seen. And, I have seen many AB cards.

Also, since she enjoys reading about these T206 guys, tell her that Frank Delehanty in 1903 (only 20 years old) had the sad task of identifying the body
his brother, "Big Ed" Delehanty, who had died mysteriously at Niagara Falls.

Thanks for posting.

TED Z
.

slipk1068

01-23-2015, 03:59 PM

There were only 3 known......now with your wife's American Beauty (AB) Frank Delehanty the are 4 known. It's quite a rare T206 card with an AB back.

Tell your wife....her Delehanty card is one of the nicest looking T206 AB cards that I have seen. And, I have seen many AB cards.

Also, since she enjoys reading about these T206 guys, tell her that Frank Delehanty in 1903 (only 20 years old) had the sad task of identifying the body
his brother, "Big Ed" Delehanty, who had died mysteriously at Niagara Falls.

Thanks for posting.

TED Z
.

I read a great book about that tragic incident a few years back. I wish I remembered the name of it.

Wow, so what would that make it worth? Does the rarity of this Delehanty make it worth more than her Cobb Red Portrait AB Back in similar condition?

I assume rarity and condition is not the only factor in determining the value.

Thanks for the help guys.

I would guess 500? maybe $600 for Delehanty if it is as nice as it looks in the scans. Cobbie would sell for multiples of that number.

Maybe someone else will chime in with their opinion

edit: looking at it again, it is a beautiful card. my numbers may be low.

Sean

01-23-2015, 05:13 PM

But a Cobb Red/ AB in similar condition would bring a couple thousand.

mrvster

01-23-2015, 05:42 PM

you both are spot on......

the real rarity, as ted will tell you, is some of the AB 460 cards that are "rarer" front back combos....

certain individuals trying to complete a master set may chase the "shorter" printed ones....

Ted z needs just a few to complete, to me, the nearly impossible 460 sub set!:eek:

tell us the ab 460s!!! that where the moola is:D.......not the multi printed(which are tuf to begin with), but the shorter printed ab 460's;)....that's where a few elite collectors here will tell you where the "hidden" gold is;)..........

Delahanty.....$500.00 ebay/ $600.00 Goodwin..... maybe:D

tedzan

01-23-2015, 06:17 PM

You're absolutely correct....AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards have been under-rated.

Sixty-three of the 75 - AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 cards are very tough to find.

The subjects that I refer to as the Exclusive 12 (460-only Series) are not as difficult to find with AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 backs.

Take care....good friend,

TED Z

__________________________________________________ _____________________________________
LOOKING for these 6 - T206 guys to complete my AMERICAN BEAUTY 460 sub-set (75 cards)

AMES (hands over head)....CAMNITZ (hands over head)....DOYLE (portrait)....McGRAW (portrait-cap)
McQUILLAN (bat)....TINKER (bat off shoulder)
.

tedzan

01-23-2015, 07:27 PM

Ted is able to remember how much he paid for a card thirty years ago. I can't, although I vaguely remember that Drum because of the missing corner.

One thing I do remember well is buying a modest collection of T206 from a family and finding two Drums in the group. That floored me. But don't ask who the two players were.:o

Bill Heitman's book "The Monster" (circa 1980) first got me going on T206's. But, you really got me involved in the "nitty-gritty" of the T206 cards by clueing me in,
and providing me some of the tougher front / back combos.

The first one you sold me was this Lundgren / EPDG in 1984 for $ 75. ...................v

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/alundgren4versions.jpg
. http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/blundgren4versions.jpg

Regarding the DRUM card....recall that we made a bet in 1985 that it would take me at least a year to acquire a DRUM. Circa Spring 1985, you surprised me when
you told me you had a DRUM card for me. I got quite a chuckle telling you that you lost our bet....by your own doing.

Those early 1980's were great times in this hobby.

TED Z
.

mrvster

01-23-2015, 08:45 PM

I was just taking my 10 year hiatus:D............only for a few years(1985-1995 about)......

college, girls, a band, motorcycles......:).................not a bad hiatus;).........

since then, those things are gone!;)

but returned to the cardboard hard core and never looked back:D

slipk1068

01-23-2015, 08:59 PM

the nearly impossible 460 sub set!:eek:

tell us the ab 460s!!! that where the moola is:D.......not the multi printed(which are tuf to begin with), but the shorter printed ab 460's;)....that's where a few elite collectors here will tell you where the "hidden" gold is;)

Seems like an opportune time to add to this thread my only AB 460.

mrvster

01-23-2015, 09:32 PM

i think that one might qualify as a toughie in the ab 460...

I was almost complete the sov 460 set, and this was tough in sov 460...

cammy throw is tough:D

barrysloate

01-24-2015, 05:41 AM

That story I do remember Ted. In the end, the bet wasn't really important.:)

tedzan

01-24-2015, 07:51 PM

Only 5 graded of Davy Jones....and, my ungraded card.

Hey, wasn't this guy the lead singer of The Monkees in the 1960's ? :)

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/AB350davyjones50xa.jpg.http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/AB350davyjones50xab.jpg

TED Z
.

tedzan

01-26-2015, 07:29 AM

Chase and Chance with LENOX backs are very rare (less than 5 of each).

After a good number of years in Pennsylvania, my blue Chase now has a nice home in Canada.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/BlueChaseLENOX.jpg . http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/LENOXxChanceColCavalry50_zps6cc89446.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/BlueChaseLENOXb.jpg . http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/LENOXxChanceColCavalry50b_zps3d99c1af.jpg

Hey guys

There is still lots of room here for your rare T206 cards, so why not post them.

Thanks,

TED Z
.

Bieg

01-26-2015, 08:01 AM

Here is another ungraded Jones

176751

Leon

01-26-2015, 09:28 AM

Here is another ungraded Jones

176751

That is a beautiful tobacco card. Thanks for posting it (as well as thanks to the other members, especially Ted Z., for sharing your cards too)

MVSNYC

01-26-2015, 05:36 PM

Thanks to Derek, this is now in my collection.

Ted- do you still own your Chance Lenox?

tedzan

01-26-2015, 05:40 PM

Thanks to Derek, this is now in my collection.

Ted- do you still own your Chance Lenox?

Sure do.

TED Z
.

MVSNYC

01-26-2015, 05:45 PM

Very nice! super dark/bold back. bravo.

Hope you're well, my friend.

slipk1068

01-26-2015, 10:41 PM

I believe these qualify.

Bieg

01-26-2015, 11:35 PM

PSA Says only 5 with the best being EX5

176857

MVSNYC

01-27-2015, 12:43 AM

Bieg- Welcome to the board...please be aware, PSA only started organizing the different brand backs in their pop reports about 5-6 years ago, so there's a huge number of cards listed under "Unkown" that are a variety of rare backs. Meaning, you cannot just look under "American Beauty" Elberfeld, Fielding for the complete number of examples...hence, the T206 pop report is very inaccurate.

Bieg

01-27-2015, 01:17 AM

I assume they are only listing cards that they have graded?

MVSNYC

01-27-2015, 01:47 AM

Yes, but my point is that prior to 5-6 (or is it 7-8?) years ago, they did not distinguise them by the different backs. So there are a ton of mixed backs under Unkown. You cannot say they've only ever graded 5 of the above card with authority...it's most likely much more, but just generically listed under Unkown.

FrankWakefield

01-27-2015, 05:59 AM

Well a fellow can say that the reports show only 3 graded American Beauty cards of a certain white border card, and be accurate as to how many the report indicates have been graded.

I say that while agreeing that some are graded and in slabs that don't indicate what's on the back.

Additionally, some of the slabbed cards have been broken out... some of those remain liberated, some have been regraded.

Point is, it is a not entirely accurate indication...

Bieg

01-27-2015, 07:07 AM

OK so how are people determining the rarity of the cards in this thread? Are there other sources beyond the PSA population reports?

ullmandds

01-27-2015, 07:13 AM

Many are merely optimistic...this is not an exact science.

tedzan

01-27-2015, 07:14 AM

Your point is well taken.

The various TPG's pop reports can be misleading. For example, if I see certain popular cards (i.e., Cobb, Matty, etc.) whose graded numbers are in tight clusters, it
implies re-grading, cross-overs, etc.. Therefore, I'm reluctant to count those numbers as representative of unique cards.

Like your's, the greater majority of the cards in my collection are ungraded. And, I know of at least a dozen long time collectors whose collections are in "raw" form.
I have their inputs on their rare T206 front/back combos, which enter into my numbers

Furthermore, I have data from Scot Reader's extensive T206 surveys which provides an additional input for my numbers.

Take care, my friend

TED Z
.

wolf441

01-27-2015, 07:19 AM

I think the rarity is all relative to the other cards in the set. All we can really go by are the population reports on PSA, SGC, etc...as well as anecdotal evidence from what we have seen board members post.

The truth is that there may be 5 graded examples listed of a particular front back combo, and another 50 ungraded examples stashed away ungraded in the private collections of long time collectors.

The only thing that we can do is compare rarity in comparison to other cards and say that "x is more plentiful than y" in terms of graded copies and that this should also hold true in the entirety of ungraded cards as well.

The only caveat is if a collector happened to be hoarding a particular back and suddenly released them to market. For example, if a collection of 200 Drum backs were suddenly added to the open market, that would change how we view the relative scarcity of particular backs (i.e., Uzit would most likely then surpass Drum as the rarer back).

Hope this helps.

***Edited to add that Pete and Ted were able to express my thoughts in a much less "long winded" version while I was typing!*** :)

Bieg

01-27-2015, 08:27 AM

Thanks for the clarification guys.

Sean

01-27-2015, 10:31 AM

Also keep in mind that collectors are much more likely to get important cards graded (Cobb,etc.,or rare backs). A common may be just as plentiful, but we don't get them graded, so they won't show up in the pop reports.

MVSNYC

01-27-2015, 10:39 AM

http://www.psacard.com/pop/t206/Index?byback=1&pf=0

Not sure when they revamped their Pop Report pages, but here's the T206 PSA link above...

Am I missing something, or did they eliminate the "Unknown" back pops in this newer chart? I do not think the numbers add up. Take T206 "total population" graded and see individual back numbers below...big gap! the balance is Unknown, before they started breaking them down by back brand...

edjs

02-06-2015, 09:00 AM

Ted,

I just picked up a Rucker AB350 unframed. Am I getting close to more scarce than Doyle? I keep looking. Between you and scarce cards and Johnny and Scrap, that's all I can think of! I'll post a scan when it gets delivered.

Ed

clydepepper

02-06-2015, 09:51 AM

Well, famously, one and only ever created.

http://www.net54baseball.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=174392&stc=1&d=1420713798

x 3

178085

178086

178087

tedzan

02-13-2015, 04:01 PM

Getting back to T206's........some great cards seen in this thread that are very scarce. However, I'm surprised that no PIEDMONT 460 Factory 42 cards have been posted.

So, here are some......all of these are scarcer than the Doyle.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/achasep460factory42.jpg.http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bchasep460factory42.jpg. .http://i529.photobucket.com/albums/dd339/tz1234zaz/bakerpiedmont46042.jpg

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/ChanceDouhertyP460x42_zpsfbe490af.jpg
. .http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/ChanceDoughertyP460x42b_zpsc16b9392.jpg

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/LathamP460x42.jpg.http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/LathamP460x42b.jpg

TED Z
.

ValKehl

02-13-2015, 04:41 PM

Ted, this one is for you!
Val

tedzan

02-13-2015, 08:38 PM

Great card....thanks for posting your Johnson.

Take care, my friend

TED Z
.

Sean

02-13-2015, 10:32 PM

Wow, a Walter Johnson/ Piedmont 42. Great card. :)

Epps

02-14-2015, 07:19 PM

A recently added one

179176

179177

Jobu

02-14-2015, 07:21 PM

Great cards gentlemen, all of you. I wish I had something to post!

ValKehl

02-14-2015, 09:45 PM

Ted & Sean, Thanks!

Epps, that is a gorgeous Cobb, regardless of the grade!

Val

Sean

02-14-2015, 10:07 PM

Epps, that is a gorgeous Cobb, regardless of the grade!

Val

Excellent Cobb, and a Piedmont 42. :)

Bigb13

02-15-2015, 05:44 PM

Only two of these179321

tedzan

02-17-2015, 08:46 AM

These American Beauty cards of Delahanty and Elberfeld are not that rare; nevertheless, their DRUM's are very rare.

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB350xDelehantyElberfeldDRUM_zpsa586832c.jpghttp://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/AB350xDelehantyElberfeldDRUMb_zps07e0156e.jpg

http://i1255.photobucket.com/albums/hh622/tedzan77/T206ElberfeldDRUM_zpsd008b32f.jpg

TED Z
.

Bigb13

02-17-2015, 02:14 PM

Only one graded by PSA179596

Luke

02-18-2015, 02:56 AM

Only one graded by PSA179596

The thread is called: Show your T206 card(s) that are more scarce than the JOE DOYLE NAT'L card

tedzan

02-18-2015, 07:09 PM

Double post.

tedzan

02-18-2015, 07:10 PM

The 1910 COUPON and the SOVEREIGN 460 cards of Matty are pretty rare.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/amatty1910coupon.jpghttp://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bmatty1910coupon.jpg

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/amattysov460p460.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bmattysov460p460.jpg

TED Z
.

Jobu

02-18-2015, 07:13 PM

Ted, that T213-1 Matty is one of my top 5 favorite cards. Thanks for posting such a big scan, I was waiting to see it in this thread.

tedzan

02-19-2015, 10:11 AM

Unfortunately, the lack of availibility of the 1910 COUPON (T213-1) cards is not fully appreciated by a fair number of collectors. If this 68-card subset
was accurately classified as the 17th basic Tobacco brand of the T206 set, there would be more respect for these cards in terms of scarcity and value.

We can't fault Jeff Burdick for this omission, since his records indicate a timeline regarding the three COUPON sets dated 1914-1919. If Jeff knew that
the 1910 COUPON set was indeed printed and issued in the Spring/Summer of 1910, it's very plausible that he would have included these cards in the
" T206 family ".

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/1910couponcobb50x.jpghttp://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/1910COUPONredCobb75xb.jpg

TED Z
.

tedzan

02-20-2015, 07:44 AM

I only know of one other Donlin red HINDU....besides mine.

.http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/donlinredhindu1914couponb.jpg
http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/donlinredhindu1914coupon.jpg

TED Z
.

tedzan

02-22-2015, 07:26 AM

One of my favorite T206 Southern Leaguers is Greminger. I would not say that his HINDU card is that rare; but, his RED SUN (T211) certainly is.

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/large/GremingerP350HinduRedSun25.jpg
. . . . http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/GremingerP350HinduRedSun25b.jpg

TED Z
.

cammb

02-23-2015, 06:53 AM

Actually, none of these cards are rarer. Only 8 confirmed Doyle national cards and everyone is showing the backs of other cards saying how many are graded by what company does not make sense. If one of the Doyles has a rare back, eg Hindu, wouldn't that make it rarer than all other tobacco cards? IMO it is the rarest no matter how many combination backs you all show.

ullmandds

02-23-2015, 07:13 AM

Actually, none of these cards are rarer. Only 8 confirmed Doyle national cards and everyone is showing the backs of other cards saying how many are graded by what company does not make sense. If one of the Doyles has a rare back, eg Hindu, wouldn't that make it rarer than all other tobacco cards? IMO it is the rarest no matter how many combination backs you all show.

Agreed...but it's funny!

slipk1068

02-23-2015, 07:39 AM

If one of the Doyles has a rare back, eg Hindu, wouldn't that make it rarer than all other tobacco cards? IMO it is the rarest no matter how many combination backs you all show.

I believe Doyle NY Nat'l only exists with a Piedmont 350 back. No doubt it is the rarest. A thread like this is just an excuse to show off some of our cards with people that share our passion. I know my family must be tired of hearing about the hobby.

tedzan

02-23-2015, 07:41 AM

Actually, none of these cards are rarer. Only 8 confirmed Doyle national cards and everyone is showing the backs of other cards saying how many are graded by what company does not make sense.

Hey Tony

1st....I'm not sure if I understand what you are getting at here ?

If one of the Doyles has a rare back, eg Hindu, wouldn't that make it rarer than all other tobacco cards? IMO it is the rarest no matter how many combination backs you all show.

2nd....Guess what, there is one Joe Doyle Nat'l card that has been graded that has a POLAR BEAR back. Perhaps, this is the card that you are alluding to ? ?

Well, guess what....this card is a FAKE !

The Doyle Nat'l card was printed only with PIEDMONT 350 backs......PERIOD.

TED Z
.

The Nasty Nati

02-23-2015, 11:25 AM

A true rare T206 card if we are talking about T206 back variations would have to be the Honus Wagner with the Piedmont back. I believe there is only 2 in existence.

cammb

02-23-2015, 01:57 PM

Hey Tony

1st....I'm not sure if I understand what you are getting at here ?

2nd....Guess what, there is one Joe Doyle Nat'l card that has been graded that has a POLAR BEAR back. Perhaps, this is the card that you are alluding to ? ?

Well, guess what....this card is a FAKE !

The Doyle Nat'l card was printed only with PIEDMONT 350 backs......PERIOD.

TED Z
.

Hey, Ted

I guess your red hindu Donlin is the rarest card there is. You win.

MVSNYC

02-23-2015, 02:32 PM

A true rare T206 card if we are talking about T206 back variations would have to be the Honus Wagner with the Piedmont back. I believe there is only 2 in existence.

Get ready for a Johnny V freak out session over that Wagner scrap...

In 3, 2, 1...

mrvster

02-23-2015, 02:37 PM

Diaper Time!:eek::eek:

that wagner scrap/magenta ghost makes my heart palpitate:D

edjs

02-23-2015, 05:15 PM

Diaper Time!:eek::eek:

that wagner scrap/magenta ghost makes my heart palpitate:D

Can't write...losing mind....must stay in control...WOW!

tedzan

02-25-2015, 09:24 AM

Pat R

02-25-2015, 10:58 AM

Ted,

PSA has four Eddie Collins AB's in their pop reports.

1Q
3
4.5
5

tedzan

02-25-2015, 02:58 PM

I guess the PSA site that I am accessing is different from your's.

It indicates "No population" for Eddie Collins AB 350.

Can you provide me the URL that you have for PSA pop reports ?

Thanks

TED Z
.

Gradedcardman

02-25-2015, 03:54 PM

The Collins POP is listed under the AB generic back not the AB 350 grouping. Apparently no AB Collins have been graded by PSA since the new format came into use.

tedzan

02-26-2015, 07:03 AM

There appears to be no graded AMERICAN BEAUTY cards of Eddie Collins. I know of only two AB 350 Collins cards....my ungraded one here,
and another ungraded Collins.

Can anyone here vouch for any more of them ?

..http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/PiedmontAB350EdCollins25.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/PiedmontAB350EdCollins50b.jpg

Thanks guys for your inputs.

OK, two ungraded ones, four PSA graded ones, and none graded by SGC.

Therefore, at this point in time we know of 6....which is slightly less than the 8 authentic Joe Doyle Nat'L cards that are known.

TED Z
.

bn2cardz

02-26-2015, 09:15 AM

Thanks guys for your inputs.

OK, two ungraded ones, four PSA graded ones, and none graded by SGC.

Therefore, at this point in time we know of 6....which is slightly less than the 8 authentic Joe Doyle Nat'L cards that are known.

TED Z
.

Also there is at least one graded by PSA prior to back reports.
http://www.cardtarget.com/ebayauction_image_serve.php?imageID=1999052765&width=291http://www.cardtarget.com/ebayauction_image_serve.php?imageID=1705935620&width=301

tedzan

02-26-2015, 04:01 PM

Sean

02-26-2015, 04:45 PM

Hey Ted, when selling the "Whitey" Plank, Goodwin said that it was one of five known with a Piedmont back. Is yours the fifth one?

I checked T206resource.com and could only find the two graded by SGC and two from PSA (including Whitey) so I assume that this is the fifth one known.

tedzan

02-26-2015, 05:41 PM

As far as I have seen, there are only 4 such Plank's.

I've never seen or heard of a 5th one.

And, don't I wish that image I have posted was a real Piedmont 150. Then, I would need only Doyle and Wagner for my 522-card all-PIEDMONT set.

Best regards,

TED Z
.

edjs

02-26-2015, 05:54 PM

OK, there are two SGC graded PIEDMONT 150 Plank's.

And, I think there are only 2 graded by PSA (one of which is his Blue-less scrap card).

http://photos.imageevent.com/tedzan77/images/websize/PlankSweetCap350rp.jpg

TED Z
.

Ted,

I am just curious. When I was taking T206 identification 101 course, the first thing to look at is the color and font on the name/team. That is the blackest looking ink I've seen on a T206. Is it just the scan? Believe me, I am not an expert.

Ed

MVSNYC

02-26-2015, 07:38 PM

Ted posted a reprint. Real T206's use brown ink for the player name & team, and the first letters of team/league are taller than the rest.

Jobu

03-22-2015, 10:28 AM

5 between PSA and SGC, making this #6. Probably some raw cards out there that push this over 8, but I wanted to post in this thread!

Jobu

03-24-2015, 10:11 PM

If we are going with the expansive definition of T206 then these fellows count because there is 1 Murray between PSA (0) and SGC (1) and there are 3 Campbells between SGC (3) and PSA (0).

Eggoman

03-25-2015, 06:40 AM

WOW! I thought that I knew a little bit about T206s, but having spent the last couple of months REALLY reading stuff on NET54 makes me realize that I ONLY know A LITTLE BIT about them! Anyway, here's my meager effort - I was surprised that so few of these have been documented - only 2 on the PSA web site and only 4 on SGC without identifying the Series... I didn't think that Cycle 460 was THAT tough...is it?

Sean

03-25-2015, 01:37 PM

Cycle 460 is not an ultra-rare back like Uzit or Drum, but they are somewhat rare. The 460 Series is much tougher than the 350 Series.

Sean

03-25-2015, 01:39 PM

And that's a really nice card. The front is really nice, but the paper loss on the back hurts the grade. :)

Sean

03-25-2015, 01:42 PM

Bryan, I love the Murray Red Cross. I considered doing a Murray back run a couple years ago, but gave up. That card would have been a White Whale for me. :)

Eggoman

03-25-2015, 01:55 PM

And that's a really nice card. The front is really nice, but the paper loss on the back hurts the grade. :)

Yeah, but it's crease free and it shows well! THANKS, Sean!!

Jobu

03-25-2015, 02:41 PM

Thanks Sean, I am pretty excited to have picked it up!

Greg, that WaJo is about as nice a 2 as you are going to see, great card.

Eggoman

03-25-2015, 03:02 PM

Thanks Sean, I am pretty excited to have picked it up!

Greg, that WaJo is about as nice a 2 as you are going to see, great card.

Thanks, Man! I appreciate that! I DO kinda like it, too! If I could build a set that presents that well...even with some minor paper losses...that would be GREAT!

Jobu

05-12-2015, 11:48 AM

A scan and a question. Between PSA and SGC there is a total of 1 Campbell Tolstoi. I assume there are more raw cards out there given that this is a common (not to mention the well-known issues with the pop reports). I know there are some Old Mill and Tolstoi cards that are really tough though - does anyone think that there are fewer than 8 of this Campbell? Thanks.

sreader3

05-12-2015, 09:15 PM

Bryan,

I checked my 2008-2013 survey data of over 100K public sales and there were none of Campbell Tolstoi. So if as you say there is only one in the major pop reports I would not be surprised if there were 8 or fewer copies extant.

Scot

Jobu

05-13-2015, 05:49 AM

Scot: Thanks! That is awesome news, I appreciate your sharing your data.

deltaarnet

05-13-2015, 09:34 AM

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/deltaarnet/SCAN0112_zpspkupvok8.jpg (http://s535.photobucket.com/user/deltaarnet/media/SCAN0112_zpspkupvok8.jpg.html)

http://i535.photobucket.com/albums/ee358/deltaarnet/Willis_zpsp67gl1ks.jpg (http://s535.photobucket.com/user/deltaarnet/media/Willis_zpsp67gl1ks.jpg.html)

The only two I own right now, but do have a 3 Finger Brown Polar bear PSA 4 on the way. Just started a T-206 PC

ZachS

05-13-2015, 01:23 PM

George Bell (hands above) w/ OM back. I've only seen my graded and another raw in beater condition. I'm sure there are others out there but I only know of 2 so far.

http://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p212/zguinness/cards/bellom_zpsb9242ed1.jpg

slipk1068

05-31-2015, 09:37 PM

My favorite thread this year, so I thought I would see if anyone wanted to add to it. This CB is a tough front back combo.

Jobu

06-01-2015, 06:05 PM

For the rarest non-scrap backs (e.g. Lenox, BL 460, Uzit) my take on things is that it is probably safe to assume that there are few-to-no cards that have 8+ examples. Do you agree with this? If I am correct, how far down the list of back rarity do we have to get before we start seeing it be likely that there are a good number of individual cards that have 8+ examples? Carolina Brights? Piedmont 350-460 42? Futher than that?