1923 Exhibit Catalogs, Order Forms etc.!!

[whiteymet]

Gentlemen:

I am attaching scans of some Exhibit paperwork I just pick up from 1923!! Wish it is from the era I collect, but just could not pass it up.

Sorry some of the scans were cut off as the catalogs were just a little bit bigger than my scanner.

Thoughts, ideas, revelations anyone??

LMK

Fred
172790

[whiteymet]

more..... with the Babe

[whiteymet]

#3

[whiteymet]

Final

[whiteymet]

the real final.... with the best for last with the Babe!!

[marvymelvin]

Hello Fred. I collect both cards and machines from this era. A lot of people who have metal Exhibit Supply machines will say they are from this era, but they misrepresent. The vending machines made by Exhibit supply in the
1920's are almost always oak, especially the countertop ones. Here is a few photos of one that I have that I plan to put Baseball Exhibits in the front, but am just a procrastinator.

[WillowGrove]

No revelations Fred but really cool items. Thanks for posting.

And Brad the oak machines are gorgeous. Are they particularly difficult to find? I only see the metal ones. Thanks

[sayhey24]

Love those Exhibit flyers! I've always thought these fairly rare single card metal Exhibit machines were from the 20s, but I have no evidence to back that up.

Greg

[cardsfan73]

Very cool, I love anything related to the history of our hobby. Thanks for sharing!


Scott

[Rickyy]

Great pick up Fred! I like the sample window card examples.... I have one with the Max Sennett Girls.

Ricky Y

[Exhibitman]

Fred, thanks for sharing! Your post illustrates something I'd long theorized about but hadn't definitively known until now. First, it shows the 1921 boxing set offered in 1923. Second, the 1923 boxing set is listed as 32 cards but I have documented 46 cards with 1923 copyrighted backs, including two Dempseys, plus another card with no date but clearly issued in 1923 [Wills]. My theory has been that the 1921 and 1922 cards were made into 1924 with the 1923 issues also printed in 1924, and that the boxing cards were added and deleted to the mixes of dated issues in 1922 and 1923 on an ad hoc basis. That is why you see so many more 1921s than 1922s and more 1922s and 1923s, and why certain fighters are so difficult to find within those runs--they were SPs. It also confirms what we've long assumed about the baseball cards, which is that there are 128 cards overall, consisting of 59 'new' cards and the rest of the set being composed of reprinted cards from 1921-1922.

Brad, I have to differ with you on your conclusion as to the vintage of the metal machines. The Ideal vendor, the two-slot model with the inset frontpiece and an all-metal design, carries a patent date of 4-21-25 on its front. I do not think the company would design and patent an item then not use it for five years. Also, you cannot take a 1923 document and assume that nothing changed until 1930 or later based on it. What we need are more circulars like Fred's, from later years. Finally, and this is a nit, the flyer Fred posted states that the Ideal is finished in mahogany, not oak.

[whiteymet]

Peter, Brad, Scot, Ricky and Adam, thanks for the nice words and replies about this Exhibit Card Paperwork.

As mentioned I do not collect the early Exhibits. My tastes run only with the Salutations and going forward. So, to answer the question a few of you have raised to me in PM's, Yes, these items are available for trade for other Exhibit items from my time frame of collecting, or other things I am looking for.

Adam: Glad you got some info you did not have before. This is the type of thing I was referring to when I asked about any revelations. I always enjoy learning about the things I collect and adding to the knowledge base. Since I had no background in early Exhibits (and only collect baseball and football myself) I was hoping someone could glean some new information from the group.

I was surprised to see that they actually broke down the baseball sets into leagues. Was this known before? It seems to me there was no such differentiation in later years.

[marvymelvin]

Love those Exhibit flyers! I've always thought these fairly rare single card metal Exhibit machines were from the 20s, but I have no evidence to back that up.

Greg

Greg you have me stumped with the single card vendor as I have never seen one. It is really cool.

[Exhibitman]

If anyone has them I am looking for scans of similar Exhibit card catalogs from 1960-1964

[marvymelvin]

Adam said "Brad, I have to differ with you on your conclusion as to the vintage of the metal machines. The Ideal vendor, the two-slot model with the inset frontpiece and an all-metal design, carries a patent date of 4-21-25 on its front. I do not think the company would design and patent an item then not use it for five years. Also, you cannot take a 1923 document and assume that nothing changed until 1930 or later based on it. What we need are more circulars like Fred's, from later years. Finally, and this is a nit, the flyer Fred posted states that the Ideal is finished in mahogany, not oak."

Hey no worries Adam. Here are a few of my own ramblings.

One thing we do know for sure is that the wooden machines came before metal ones.

There are many metal machines, not much different than the early ones you speak of, currently being described by antique dealers as far older than they are, and otherwise misrepresented as early 1920's and it just isn't true for most of them. ESCO also had a propensity to make a vending machine and then continue use and manufacture the same exact machine for many years.

You see how it gets dicey. Lets say you have a card vending machine made and patented in 1925. It works well and is a workhorse, so they make them year after year for maybe 15-20 years. Without a date of manufacture I can tell you that every collector, auctioneer, antique dealer, buyer, seller, appraiser etc will labeled it as "Early 1920's." When in fact it could be late 20's and possibly all the way to mid to late 40's.

And lastly, if steel machines were made in the 1920's, then when in the 20's?

Someone might ask "is it from the 20's or is it from the 30's?" Well, mathematically speaking that is a 20 year span from New Years Day 1920 to New Years eve 1939. There very well may have been a metal cased vendor in the 1920's, but most likely very late, and then used and manufactured similarly unchanged well into to the 30's and 40's before being replaced.

Just as an FYI, using old photos to identify the age of these machines is a lesson in futility. Many machines from many eras have been on location vending cards forever. I Just bought a post card out of an old 1950's Exhibit Supply machine at a bus station. They were built well.

Oh and in response to your "nit" I said and I quote,

"...machines made by Exhibit Supply in the 1920's are almost always oak, especially the countertop ones..." I didn't say they were "always" oak, I said almost always.

In a past life I was a very motivated collector of coin-operated devices, jukeboxes, pinballs, and penny arcade machines of every size and purpose. Exhibit Supply was manufacturer of many types of amusements in addition to card vendors. The tall wooden vendors with the large windows displaying the cards with multiple coin slides were made of many different kinds of wood including Oak. So not always oak but many countertop machines, fancy floor models and countertop strength testers, crane digger machines, and floor model 3D viewers I have owned have been oak, and not just regular oak as many were also quartersawn/tiger oak.

As for oak or mahogany the smaller "Ideal" vendor was a lower quality machine vs. the Oak Model "G" which is also pictured in the brochure, and is also the one I own and pictured (without the optional top marquee). Fancy Oak in fancy Hotels and upper class establishments, and lesser materials and simpler manufacture in lesser establishments and speakeasy's.

As for the material posted in Fred's original post, it would have all (or most if not all) come along in a large envelope with delivery of my model G, or the Ideal vendor, or any other machine in the brochure that vended cards. Pretty Neat stuff.

[Exhibitman]

Funny how things change: today low end unfinished furniture is pine or oak [there's an outlet store near my office] and mahogany is reserved for fine applications.

Oh, I agree that the Ideal machines were made for many years and in use even longer. The patent date stamped on the front sets a likely start date of 1925 for the all-metal Ideal machine. When they ended is impossible to say, esp. since there are no internal dating stamps or plates like you'd find on a Fender guitar [yeah, I watch Antiques Roadshow]. Something I find helpful in trying to date them is looking at the front advertising panels when they are found intact. I picked up one that had a movie panel from the late 1920s in it. The panels can be difficult to remove intact; the board can get very brittle with exposure to light and the elements. I cracked the heck out of the one I had when I took it out of the machine and I am very careful, so I have to believe it was in there from the early days. Not saying it definitively proves anything about mfg dates.

As for the nit, counter-nit acknowledged and approved!

BTW, if anyone is interested in it, I have a catalog of the full machine line. 80 pages. It is not dated but it speaks of the company's 30 years' experience and the company started in 1901, so probably ca. 1930. It has examples and illustrations of the card machines and some card sets, and lots of interesting copy about the business and machines, including release details. And a beautiful art deco cover. Unfortunately, not as precise with details as the order forms are. It lists the Ideal as a "new model" but says it is "now being constructed with much heavier sheet metal", which implies that there was an older version with lighter sheet metal. I will try to scan and post some of the pages. I don't want to wreck the booklet by cracking the spine in the scanner.

2nd BTW: I have a post-1962 order sheet [has a zip code on it, so I know it is from after they were issued] that lists the Baseball Hall of Fame set as available. Whether that means it was printed into the 1960s or just old stock I have no idea...

[smtjoy]

Awesome piece Fred, thanks for sharing!!!

[Exhibitman]

OK, here are scans from the catalog I mentioned. It is 80 pages so I kept it to the ones that were card-related, plus the cover and face page.

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/1930%20Exhibit%20Catalog%201.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/1930%20Exhibit%20Catalog%202.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/1930%20Exhibit%20Catalog%203.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/1930%20Exhibit%20Catalog%204.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/1930%20Exhibit%20Catalog%205.jpg

[Rickyy]

Wow more cool stuff thanks for posting the parts of the catalog Adam!

Ricky Y

[Bumpus Jones]

Here's an exhibit card machine window display.

[sayhey24]

Chris,

Can't decide which I like more -- the great display piece or the exposed brick wall you have it hanging on!

Greg

[Bumpus Jones]

:D

[joeadcock]

Here's an exhibit card machine window display.

Nice looking piece

[Exhibitman]

What does the back of the baseball machine header look like? This one has scrap printing from postcard backs on it:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/interestingexhibitcards/websize/Dempsey%20advertisement.jpg

Makes sense--why waste new stock on a freebie display?