T216 Kotton Cigarettes

[curtis-cards]

I don't know much about these. I'm looking at one for a player I collect. How often do these come up for sale? Any advice on them? Are they rare? Thanks in advance.

[ullmandds]

theres a pretty nice one ending on the bay tonight...I love them. yes they are tough esp if looking for a certain front back combo. you could spend years looking for a given player...as I have been!

[ullmandds]

and silly me...obviously you are aware!!! Where will it end?

[curtis-cards]

and silly me...obviously you are aware!!! Where will it end?

Yes, I'm watching it. Are you too? I hope not :eek:

And thanks for the advice!

[Leon]

theres a pretty nice one ending on the bay tonight...I love them. yes they are tough esp if looking for a certain front back combo. you could spend years looking for a given player...as I have been!

Well since you already let the cat out on the worst secret on ebay, here is a link.. Before this thread I had seen and bookmarked it. It's a great looking card so I went and checked my "type" collection.... I think I am either ok on a type or a hoarder...not sure. Yes, T216s are tough and a specific player is very tough. (as Pete alluded to)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rebel-Oakes-1911-16-Kotton-Cigarettes-T216-SGC-30-/311210123977?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item487591a2c9

[curtis-cards]

Well, I didn't want to bring attention to it, but oh well.

[curtis-cards]

I'm an Oakes collector. I've put in 3 max bids and it's over what I can do. Good luck to the winner. It sure is a looker!

[Jobu]

I was watching it too - still after my first NOLA card. Too bad all y'all done saw this one too! (Not that I thought anything different would happen, this group's dogged determination never disappoints.)

[curtis-cards]

I was watching it too - still after my first NOLA card. Too bad all y'all done saw this one too! (Not that I thought anything different would happen, this group's dogged determination never disappoints.)


Haha, yeah! I picked up Oakes' Coupon last week. It was my 1st Nola. I live in Nola, so I'm partial to them as well.

[Jobu]

I moved to New Orleans 12 months before Katrina and just moved to Milwaukee this August after 10 years there. Too bad this card didn't come up while I was still in town - we could have grabbed a drink following this conversation.

Nice buy on the Coupon. I hope that my first NOLA card will be T213-1 or one of the obscure cards like T214, 215, or 216.

I hope the winner of this one is a board member, always nice to keep things in the family.

[LKeeler]

Well I put in a snipe earlier in the week for $600 on the Oakes and thought that would win it. Guess not!

[curtis-cards]

I'm from N. Louisiana originally, but live here now. I'm in the liquor biz, so I would've definitely been up for a drink. I hope a board member got it as well. I went back to the well and bid a few more times, but still fell quite short. Lol

[ullmandds]

i was bidding too but it went much higher than was worth it to me. nice card...and I too hoard t216's when I can get them...I love them!

[Buythatcard]

That was my card. I was really surprised how high it went for. I've always done well selling Kotton cards.

Got one more which will be up for sale on eBay in the next few days.

That one will be a Hans Lobert SGC 10.

Thanks to all of you who plugged that card for me. :D

[x2drich2000]

Howard, just curious, did you pick up the Oakes at the recent Philly Show? I though I saw one there but forgot to go back and take a closer look.

DJ

[Leon]

i was bidding too but it went much higher than was worth it to me. nice card...and I too hoard t216's when I can get them...I love them!

me....just a type collector...

[CW]

Haha no wonder my snipe was blown out of the water. :)

Cool card. Winner paid a premium and will likely not recoup, but that's what collecting is all about.

Oh, the power of Net54 advertising.

[edjs]

Well, this is my only one, it looks lke someone spilled kool-aid on it. But it was much less than the one tonight! Anyone ever heard of the Philadelphia National Pink Shirts?

[Bosox Blair]

Gotta like some Kottons:

[whelenfan]

those are all great looking cards, I'd never heard of them before!

[ullmandds]

I've got the mino and 2 (the only 2 known to exist at this point)blank backed t216 millers for my run...but the kotton backed millers elude me to this point!

[Mikehealer]

One of my favorites issues for sure.

http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/hoft206/joel/large/T216%20Evers.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/hoft206/joel/large/T216%20Matty.jpg
http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/hoft206/joel/large/T216%20Tinker.jpg

[packs]

Here's my Admiral. Trimmed but you take what you can get:


http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/madjams/Schlei1_zps95972be8.jpg http://i107.photobucket.com/albums/m294/madjams/Schlei2_zps74809fac.jpg

[Leon]

I know we have had this discussion but what is the difference between the T216 and E92 blank back Miller "big glove?"

http://luckeycards.com/pe92blankbackmillersgc40.jpg

[pete zouras]

<a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/t216typef.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/t216typef.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo t216typef.jpg"/></a><a href="http://s8.photobucket.com/user/zouraspm/media/t216typeb.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a47/zouraspm/t216typeb.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo t216typeb.jpg"/></a>

[Buythatcard]

For those of you who have asked, here is the Lobert card that I will be listing.

[curtis-cards]

Nice cards everyone! I wish I could've picked up that Oakes!

[rman444]

I know we have had this discussion but what is the difference between the T216 and E92 blank back Miller "big glove?"

http://luckeycards.com/pe92blankbackmillersgc40.jpg

Paper stock

[brianp-beme]

I typically can be relied upon to lower the optical standards of a thread.

Brian

[Bosox Blair]

One of my favorites issues for sure.


http://photos.imageevent.com/mhgt/hoft206/joel/large/T216%20Matty.jpg


Wow Mike - the Matty in particular is amazing!!! :eek:

Best of the season to you, my friend!

Cheers,
Blair

[ullmandds]

Paper stock

paper stock is one of the telltale factors imo...but I think the smoking gun to differentiate these blank back t216 from e92 for example wpuld be the team caption.

For example, regarding my dots millers...the supposed t216 bb depicts dots with St. Louis...whereas all e92 depict him with pitt.

The only miller throwing cards depicted w/st louis are later issues like d303, e106...and t216.

Additionally the tones of the background(sunset) are slightly more vivid on the t216 issues than the e92...this is hard to see in a scan but more obvious holding the cards in my hand.

I'm also convinced the type font is slightly different...but this has proven even harder to demonstrate.

I can post scans later.

[tedzan]

Miller was traded to St. Louis in December 1913. Except for E106 cards, I don't think there are too many "T216 size" Candy issues after that date; therefore,
a St. Louis caption denotes a T216 card.

Oops....I didn't realize that Pete had already mentioned this :)


http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/akottonchase.jpghttp://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/bkottonchase.jpg


TED Z

.

[ullmandds]

Ted!!!!! Brutha! We agree!!!!!!!!!

[tedzan]

Hey good buddy....how often we do we agree ? :)

Can you say....Chicago National, 2013....we had an interesting conversation then.



TED Z
.

[Leon]

Hey good buddy....how often we do we agree ? :)

Can you say....Chicago National, 2013....we had an interesting conversation then.

TED Z
.

As for card stock being the difference that marks e92 from t216 I am probably in agreement. I know some of the cards in t216 are very thin (I call them type 3) and others have a glossy coat (if I remember correctly from holding one) but the team changes do it for me. I am also less convinced on the coloring of them....I think shades can probably be found different in the same series. (not positive)

[ullmandds]

While I agree that color variations most certainly exist within similar cards within a set(s)...I feel that the difference in this case is somewhat substantial.

The earlier e92's all exhibit a lighter...more yellow background whereas the later issues more orange.

Just an observation on my part...the caption tells the tale.

[Leon]

I see what you mean Pete. Thanks for posting those examples side by side.

[Mikehealer]

Thanks Blair
Here's wishing you and all my net54 friends a safe and happy Holiday Season!!

Mike

[buymycards]

I was way off base on this one. I figured it would go in the $250 range. I couldn't believe the final price.

I sold a couple, so I am down to 1 Mino and 1 each of the 3 Kotton backs.

Rick

[ValKehl]

If I ever obtain a T216 Virginia Extra for my type-card collection, guess which player I'd like it to be.

[ullmandds]

my t216 blank backs

[ullmandds]

yeah...i know theres a ve miller or two out there...more like 1 1/2...and I gotta get me one!!!!

[Leon]

If I ever obtain a T216 Virginia Extra for my type-card collection, guess which player I'd like it to be.

I have only seen one VE Jennings.....

[ValKehl]

Leon, if I ever am fortunate enough to acquire a Niagara baking card, ... :D
Best wishes for the Holidays,
Val

[Leon]

Leon, if I ever am fortunate enough to acquire a Niagara baking card, ... :D
Best wishes for the Holidays,
Val

It would be my pleasure Val..We can always have hope...happy holidays to you and your family!!

http://luckeycards.com/pt216mino.jpg

[buymycards]

Hi folks, last night another low grade Kotton sold on ebay for a strong price. (congratulations to Howard). 2-3 years ago these cards were selling anywhere from $75 to $150 for a SGC10. The last 2 ebay sales were $406 and $788. It seems that there are more Louisiana collectors than in the past, and we are seeing some strong prices, or maybe these just happen to be player collectors who are bidding these up, plus a lot of people watch Howards auctions because he always has some great items listed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hans-Lobert-1911-16-Kotton-Cigarettes-T216-SGC-10-/311220602580?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=kQCpV6TVhvZUXAvNrh1B2HBLT%252Bc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

The same thing is happening with Type 2 Coupons. 2-3 years ago I could pick up a raw card in poor to good condition for $20 bucks. Now they will go for $40 or more.

These prices are great for sellers, but for us Louisiana collectors these cards are getting a little pricey.

Rick

[Leon]

Hi folks, last night another low grade Kotton sold on ebay for a strong price. (congratulations to Howard). 2-3 years ago these cards were selling anywhere from $75 to $150 for a SGC10. The last 2 ebay sales were $406 and $788. It seems that there are more Louisiana collectors than in the past, and we are seeing some strong prices, or maybe these just happen to be player collectors who are bidding these up, plus a lot of people watch Howards auctions because he always has some great items listed.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hans-Lobert-1911-16-Kotton-Cigarettes-T216-SGC-10-/311220602580?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEDWX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=kQCpV6TVhvZUXAvNrh1B2HBLT%252Bc%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

The same thing is happening with Type 2 Coupons. 2-3 years ago I could pick up a raw card in poor to good condition for $20 bucks. Now they will go for $40 or more.

These prices are great for sellers, but for us Louisiana collectors these cards are getting a little pricey.

Rick

There are a few Lobert collectors and that might have been one they needed. It was a strong price....but I think this was the auction.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hans-Lobert-1911-16-Kotton-Cigarettes-T216-SGC-10-/311220602580?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item48763186d4&nma=true&si=WszDVKpcwGBZTIALeXuPKl8YGZ4%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557


.

[bn2cardz]

I can say that as a Lobert collector I didn't place a single bid on that Kotton as I already had that back. Also I paid about a 2/3 of that price in February with no other bidders and was a PSA 2. So there does seem to be some type of increase.

http://i1118.photobucket.com/albums/k607/bn2cardz/bn2cardz/LobertRun_zps923a7777.jpg

[Buythatcard]

More Kotton's on eBay!

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Larry-Doyle-1911-16-Kotton-Cigarettes-T216-SGC-10-/311313032470?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487bb3e516

http://www.ebay.com/itm/George-Stovall-1911-16-Kotton-Cigarettes-T216-SGC-10-/311314715408?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item487bcd9310

[edjs]

I was way off base on this one. I figured it would go in the $250 range. I couldn't believe the final price.

I sold a couple, so I am down to 1 Mino and 1 each of the 3 Kotton backs.

Rick

I have been wondering about the three Kotton backs. Is it already known which of the three are the hardest backs to find, or are they already so hard to find, each of the three are equally difficult? Also, which of the three come in the "thin paper" variety? Last question, can the year be determined based on which of the three backs it is, like some of the t206s? Thanks for any input.

[Leon]

I have been wondering about the three Kotton backs. Is it already known which of the three are the hardest backs to find, or are they already so hard to find, each of the three are equally difficult? Also, which of the three come in the "thin paper" variety? Last question, can the year be determined based on which of the three backs it is, like some of the t206s? Thanks for any input.

There is one thin variety, and it's by far the most difficult. It is the back that only says "Never Go Out" and doesn't have the additional wording "Extra Mild Not in a Trust" or the 1.2.3. statements. I am not sure about the other question.

[tiger8mush]

There is one thin variety, and it's by far the most difficult. It is the back that only says "Never Go Out" and doesn't have the additional wording "Extra Mild Not in a Trust" or the 1.2.3. statements. I am not sure about the other question.

I believe these are examples of the 3 Leon speaks of ... Barry has the extra words, Murphy has the 1. 2. 3., and Shean has no extra words.
Rob
:)

[edjs]

Thanks, Leon. So that Ty Cobb of yours is also the thin variety, the "by far the most difficult?" I love that Cobb pose, regardless of the set. So, does anyone know if you can date the card based on the three backs? Which came first, second, third? I really like these cards, I think it is the thrill of the chase.

[Leon]

Thanks, Leon. So that Ty Cobb of yours is also the thin variety, the "by far the most difficult?" I love that Cobb pose, regardless of the set. So, does anyone know if you can date the card based on the three backs? Which came first, second, third? I really like these cards, I think it is the thrill of the chase.

Yes, the Cobb is the thin variety. There has probably been research on when each type back was issued but if I ever saw it I don't remember now. I don't remember quite a bit though. :( And yes, the thrill of the chase is quite fun on really scarce issues.

[edjs]

Holy cow, am I the last guy in the group to realize that Mino is not a name, but an acronym? M.I.N.O., Made In New Orleans. That was a "what was I thinking" moment.

[ullmandds]

Holy cow, am I the last guy in the group to realize that Mino is not a name, but an acronym? M.I.N.O., Made In New Orleans. That was a "what was I thinking" moment.

nope...I AM the last guy!!!!!!

[Jobu]

I missed that too. I think I am going to start calling my son MINO.

[edjs]

The Kotton I've had for a little while, but I just got the MINO and Virginia Extra. Thanks to Glenn for a great transaction on the MINO, I see you (Glenn) bought the VE in the BST auction! If I didn't win the one in Sterling, I would have been fighting you he one in BST. I have been wanting to be able to post just this, a Kotton, a MINO, and a Virginia Extra for a long time now. They may not be the prettiest ones at the dance, but I don't mind! :):):):)

[darwinbulldog]

The Kotton I've had for a little while, but I just got the MINO and Virginia Extra. Thanks to Glenn for a great transaction on the MINO, I see you (Glenn) bought the VE in the BST auction! If I didn't win the one in Sterling, I would have been fighting you he one in BST. I have been wanting to be able to post just this, a Kotton, a MINO, and a Virginia Extra for a long time now. They may not be the prettiest ones at the dance, but I don't mind! :):):):)

Ed,

I will need to find a replacement MINO now, but I was able to afford the VE thanks to your purchasing the Bridwell. Are you going to go after the other Kotton ad backs now?

[edjs]

I sure would like to! Got any leads? :cool:

[darwinbulldog]

Not really. Probably you're already aware of this, but there's one with a Best Offer option on eBay right now, and there will be a couple of auction houses going live later this week, but I don't know if they have any T216s.