Babe Ruth signed letter

[Runscott]

This stuff is scary. Someone finds an age-appropriate envelope with no return address, then creates the contents and response. This is going to fool a few people, just because the envelope looks good and the story is believable. The forger has gone to extra lengths by having "Ruth" sign the kid's actual letter, and add a year date that matches the envelope's postmark.

The kid claims in his letter that he saw Babe Ruth at the theater - if that were true, he would certainly have gotten Ruth's autograph then. I'm hoping that my February, 1943 Ruth that actually was signed at a Bronx theater during a War Bond drive, was not where he got the idea for this story. I haven't looked into it, but it's probable that Ruth wasn't even doing War Bond appearances in 1947 - he was dying from cancer and was in the hospital until February. From Wikipedia: "He was discharged from the hospital in February (1947), having lost 80 pounds (36 kg), and went to Florida to recuperate." The postmark is February, 1947, meaning that Ruth was at the theater prior to that...when he was actually in the hospital. Even more glaring, the word 'AUTOGRAPH' on the kid's letter were typed with the same typewriter that 'Ruth' used to respond to him (match the 'A' and 'T').

Babe Ruth signed letter on ebay (http://www.ebay.com/itm/1947-Babe-Ruth-Autographed-Fan-Letter-Original-Envelope-Ruth-Stationary-RARE/121484611242)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/R14AAOSwQItUH54S/$_57.JPG

[w7imel]

I know the guy thru Ebay that has this for auction.(he was the one who sold the walter johnson stamped auto as "authentic") He first had this as a buy it now for 5000. I sent him a text telling it was wrong to be selling this as authentic. And that he knows its not real. He then told me some crock story about how so and so has looked at it and said its good. I told him we all had bought an auto in our life that turned out bad but that doesnt make it right to turn around and do it to someone else. I also said something to the fact that selling a forgery as authentic is not only unethical but possibly illegal. He then told me to loose his phone number. Two days later enough people must of harrased him about the auto he relisted item as auction starting price $.01 which does not make it right because he still claims " "To Bob, Sincerely Babe Ruth 1947", which I don't believe is secretarial." I sent him one last text to which he didnt respond basically telling him its guys like him who knowingly pass on a forgery that ruin this hobby for everyone else. What do you do? Ebay dont seem to care as long as they get their 10%. This guy knows better so I hope enough people have expressed their opinions about it to him besides myself.

[RichardSimon]

What do you do? Ebay dont seem to care as long as they get their 10%. This guy knows better so I hope enough people have expressed their opinions about it to him besides myself.

Ebay has totally stopped caring about autographs. They disbanded the EMR team and since John G. has left ebay nobody there gives a damn about autographs. I bet I could put up Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare and Christopher Columbus autographs for $9.99 each starting bids and ebay would just let them ride.

[Runscott]

The problem is that the seller is not that far off from a forgery that is believable to many (more) on our forum. If he had chosen a date in 1943, used two different typewriters and presented a slightly more believable forgery, I think he could have gotten away with it.

[w7imel]

IMO autograph not even close. Is there anyway this was a fan letter sent to ruth while sick that was secretarial signed? instead of a milicious forgery? I dont know just asking a question to better educate myself

[David Atkatz]

Ruth did not employ "secretaries." Even when he was ill, on good days he would sign a stack postcard-sized photos to fulfill fan requests. Occasionally, when these ran out, Claire would sign for him.

[w7imel]

So is this a claire or forgery dave? Just asking so I can better my understanding...Thanks dave!!!!

[Runscott]

Secretarial signatures look like secretarial signatures, not like forgeries. This looks like a bad forgery.

[w7imel]

No matter what it is the person selling this like I said is more knowlegable about autographs that just your everyday passer by and knows this isn't real. I have had several conversations with him about his extensive autograph collecting. He sends his stuff to psa and jsa to get authenticated. I am almost certain this one was sent in to get authenticated at one time or another. Bottom line is he knows its not the signature of George Herman.

[jgmp123]

It's not a Clair signature....its a forgery and the seller knows it. I have messaged him and he doesn't seem to care. Scum.

[w7imel]

I have emailed and cell phone texted him, and yes he knows it and your right dont seem to care.

[Runscott]

Luckily, it's a one-off forgery. There are three tells in this one that I have never even seen two of them together before. Really stupid stuff. The high bidder has a lot of feedback - you would think that all the bidders with low feedback, and no other high-feedback bidders, would be a clue for him.

[Runscott]

I have emailed and cell phone texted him, and yes he knows it and your right dont seem to care.

Before I started this thread, unaware of all the communication the seller has received from you all, I told him that it was bad and that if he had been duped in buying it, I would provide him with enough detail to support getting his money back.

I assumed the best here, and was wrong.

[w7imel]

The worst part is he is works for the state of Alaska he told me something like a county commisioner. Is a 600 dollar forgery worth your reputation and job if people found out you were knowingly selling forged sports autographs. Would be different if this was the first. I posted the walter johnson stamped reciept as well a few weeks ago. When I asked him about that he said I was harrasing him. didnt deny it.

[Runscott]

Funny, though - if he joined our forum and posted a story about this piece, saying it came from his wife's grandfather, and it had been in the family at least forty years (because he saw it as a child :rolleyes:), and YOU questioned him...

...the usual ignorant masses would be all over you for beating up on a new guy.

[w7imel]

you know what scott your right!.....haha your right for sure ...maybe we are the problem because we care about this hobby. Maybe the hobby would be happier if guys like us turned a blind eye and let buyers think they got the "deal of the century" every time they picked up a Ruth for under a grand. Not sure what the answer is.

[yanks12025]

Funny, though - if he joined our forum and posted a story about this piece, saying it came from his wife's grandfather, and it had been in the family at least forty years (because he saw it as a child :rolleyes:), and YOU questioned him...

...the usual ignorant masses would be all over you for beating up on a new guy.



Lol! You're comparing two totally different things. The first guy wasn't coming here to sell the baseball. He asked whether it was real or not. You guys informed him it was fake then attacked him. He didn't post it for sale after as a real ruth.

But this guy on eBay knows it's fake and is trying to sell it. So please Scott, how are they the same besides being a fake auto????

[Runscott]

Lol! You're comparing two totally different things. The first guy wasn't coming here to sell the baseball. He asked whether it was real or not. You guys informed him it was fake then attacked him. He didn't post it for sale after as a real ruth.

But this guy on eBay knows it's fake and is trying to sell it. So please Scott, how are they the same besides being a fake auto????

Brock - are you pretending to not be able to read, or is this an actual physical problem for you?

[yanks12025]

Brock - are you pretending to not be able to read, or is this an actual physical problem for you?

Scott,
You have to be the BIGGEST TOOL on this forum!

[Runscott]

Scott,
You have to be the BIGGEST TOOL on this forum!

That's good - you've added another word to your limited vocabulary.

[yanks12025]

That's good - you've added another word to your limited vocabulary.

Hey Scott,
Yeah you're right, I'm working on my vocabulary everyday and still working towards my bachelor degree. But one thing I've learned so far, Is not to be a a**hole like you! So thanks :D

[Runscott]

Hey Scott,
Yeah you're right, I'm working on my vocabulary everyday and still working towards my bachelor degree. But one thing I've learned so far, Is not to be a a**hole like you! So thanks :D

I think the main thing you've learned is to do your name-calling in internet forums. It was nice to meet the 'closed-mouth' version of you at the National. I was surprised that you didn't have anything nasty to say, but I wasn't surprised that you were the size of a large rodent.

[yanks12025]

I think the main thing you've learned is to do your name-calling in internet forums. It was nice to meet the 'closed-mouth' version of you at the National. I was surprised that you didn't have anything nasty to say, but I wasn't surprised that you were the size of a large rodent.

Funny you mention the national. Because what I remember most about you is how you just run off from people during conversation. Kind of a rude thing to do to people(this is the national 2 years ago).

[Fuddjcal]

Ebay has totally stopped caring about autographs. They disbanded the EMR team and since John G. has left ebay nobody there gives a damn about autographs. I bet I could put up Julius Caesar, William Shakespeare and Christopher Columbus autographs for $9.99 each starting bids and ebay would just let them ride.

Yes, and they lose a good collector and customer like me...They care not. They have replaced me with 1000 other knuckleheads that love cheap forgeries. If more people stood up to BullS*** like what e-bay has done and other conglomerates, something would get done. Sadly, the dumbing down of America doesn't help matters. I have not or will not buy another autograph until E-bay starts to care again...which will be the first of never.

[Fuddjcal]

Hey Scott,
Yeah you're right, I'm working on my vocabulary everyday and still working towards my bachelor degree. But one thing I've learned so far, Is not to be a a**hole like you! So thanks :D

aint that the truth...

[Fuddjcal]

The worst part is he is works for the state of Alaska he told me something like a county commisioner. Is a 600 dollar forgery worth your reputation and job if people found out you were knowingly selling forged sports autographs. Would be different if this was the first. I posted the walter johnson stamped reciept as well a few weeks ago. When I asked him about that he said I was harrasing him. didnt deny it.

what would he care???John Hotandsmelli, prosecutor sold 50,000 worth of forgeries by getting Drew Maxipad to cert all of them and auction them off in NJ. He was caught in a web of lies, and he is a complete asshole and uncaring to the people he ripped off. No one will do nothing to him or Drew Maxipad

[Fuddjcal]

Scott,
You have to be the BIGGEST TOOL on this forum!

+1 Always a tool box, so what. I like that about him. He adds character to any forum. You always need the asses point. When I'm not around Runscott fills the gaps nicely

[Runscott]

+1 Always a tool box, so what. I like that about him. He adds character to any forum. You always need the asses point. When I'm not around Runscott fills the gaps nicely

Thanks Chuck! One thing I'm not going to do is call names. I think it's the last resort of people who can't defend their own logic. If it were a valid 'tool' in discussions, we'd hear people calling each other 'tool' and 'asshole' at the National each year - it's basically the same people - but we don't. Such people are either cowards are poor conversationalists.

The other thing people sometimes forget is that this forum is not an exclusive collection of the brightest and most knowledgeable members of our hobby - it is a crossection of anyone who is even remotely interested in the hobby. Many of the more interesting and intelligent hobby conversations occur elsewhere, and the lower extremities of the hobby don't get to participate, or they do so with each other. When I run across one of them here, it's amusing at best, slightly aggravating at worst. But I get over it quickly.

Have a great day, Chuck - you are knowledgeable and you piss people off. But it is the internet, so as long as you are having fun it's fine. And if you aren't, go for a run.

[yanks12025]

Never mind

[Runscott]

I understand that. But it gets tiring to see everyday certain members posts attacking others because they might have different opinions or views on a topic. People should have the right to their opinion. And I'm sure im not the only person who thinks it.

You really need to step away from the mirror.

[yanks12025]

Whatever Scott. I'm done talking to you. There's no reasoning with people like you who thinks your opinion is the only one that matters. Hope to see you at the national next year :)

[Runscott]

Whatever Scott. I'm done talking to you. There's no reasoning with people like you who thinks your opinion is the only one that matters. Hope to see you at the national next year :)

That's not true - even your opinions matter. You are one of the most opinionated people in this forum, and quite often jump on people half-cocked - I've seen you do it to plenty of people besides me. Believe me, I'm not taking this personally, even if you intend it this way.

As far as the National, or anywhere else we happen to see each other, I'm sure you will have your mouth appropriately shut. I have yet to see any of the internet name-callers practice the same ill-advised behavior in 'real life'.

[yanks12025]

That's not true - even your opinions matter. You are one of the most opinionated people in this forum, and quite often jump on people half-cocked - I've seen you do it to plenty of people besides me. Believe me, I'm not taking this personally, even if you intend it this way.

As far as the National, or anywhere else we happen to see each other, I'm sure you will have your mouth appropriately shut. I have yet to see any of the internet name-callers practice the same ill-advised behavior in 'real life'.



One more thig because i guess you can't let it go and just keep rambling on. I've seen many times how you SCOTT insult and attack other members here and over on GUU because they expressed their opinion or asked a question about a post you made. And I'm not the only member who feels this way about you!

As for the national, maybe you'd actually hear me talk if you don't just go running away like you did two years ago. Plus I've never had a problem with you in the past, so there was no point in saying anything to you.

[Runscott]

One more thig because i guess you can't let it go and just keep rambling on. I've seen many times how you SCOTT insult and attack other members here and over on GUU because they expressed their opinion or asked a question about a post you made. And I'm not the only member who feels this way about you!

As for the national, maybe you'd actually hear me talk if you don't just go running away like you did two years ago. Plus I've never had a problem with you in the past, so there was no point in saying anything to you.

First of all, the argument that "I'm not the only member who feels this way about you" is a common internet forum cop-out. Talk about the here and now or shut up. I could use the same argument about you, and it would be just as valid. Most of us learned this in internet 101.

Regarding GUU - you claim that I attack and insult other members? You are full of crap. I've posted less than 100 times over there, and it has always been polite and respectful. The fact that you feel compelled to bring other forums into your bashing of me, just shows that you aren't comfortable with our forum members' ability to read what's right here in front of them. I've been a member here, off an on, since you were in middle-school - everyone here knows me, and I'm comfortable with that.

As far as the National, you stood in front of my table and when I smiled and said "hello" to you, you just stood there and stared. I thought it was weird, but I figured you were just very shy in real life and used the internet to get out your aggression.

You really need to walk away from this. No one's interested in reading your bashing or your name-calling, and I can assure you no one's interested in your problems over on GUU. This is Net54.

I'll read your response tomorrow, so go out and play and have some fun.

[Runscott]

"I'll read your response tomorrow"

I take that back. I've given you way too much time over the last three years, and it stops now. As I've said to Jason in the past, and he's largely ignored me: if you don't like what I have to say, don't post responses. I'll return the favor by not even reading your posts, and that starts now.

[Duluth Eskimo]

"I'll read your response tomorrow"

I take that back. I've given you way too much time over the last three years, and it stops now. As I've said to Jason in the past, and he's largely ignored me: if you don't like what I have to say, don't post responses. I'll return the favor by not even reading your posts, and that starts now.

I'll introduce myself at the national and we'll see what you have to say. Not much else to say til then

[w7imel]

what is this national you guys talk of? Is it in different place each year....?

[Runscott]

I'll introduce myself at the national and we'll see what you have to say. Not much else to say til then

Jason, you've been attacking and calling me names from behind your keyboard, for over three years now. Now you decide you are going to show up at the National and behave the same way? Please do it when I don't have any customers around.

[Runscott]

what is this national you guys talk of? Is it in different place each year....?

It's the National Sports Collectors Convention. It tends to rotate between Chicago, Cleveland and Atlantic City.

The same people you talk with every day on this forum will be there, except the ones here who have particularly nasty vocabularies will be for the most part, indistinguishable from the people who you know here and respect. And don't worry - in the last fifteen years, I only know of one actual fight. Generally fights result in one person going to jail and one going to the hospital. Only an absolute idiot thinks either situation is a win.

[w7imel]

Where is next one at? I live in Indianapolis and would love to see a few of you in person. If you guys are anything like the guys I work with we all talk tough threaten to "kick each others ass" but were just BS ing around and would never really even concider that. Isnt that how us guys get thru the day by talking trash?

[steve B]

To get back on track a bit......And since some auto stuff is a mystery to me.

What about the other one? The one on the letterhead? Is that a Claire one or also a forgery? I'd have to think a Blank Ruth Leterhead would be pretty expensive.

Steve B

[shelly]

To late:eek:

[Runscott]

Where is next one at? I live in Indianapolis and would love to see a few of you in person. If you guys are anything like the guys I work with we all talk tough threaten to "kick each others ass" but were just BS ing around and would never really even concider that. Isnt that how us guys get thru the day by talking trash?

This summer in Chicago. Hopefully we will see you there. Don't worry - no one is going to hurt anyone.

[Runscott]

To get back on track a bit......And since some auto stuff is a mystery to me.

What about the other one? The one on the letterhead? Is that a Claire one or also a forgery? I'd have to think a Blank Ruth Leterhead would be pretty expensive.

Steve B

Steve, the entire set-up was created in order to create an illusion that would distract you from the actual signatures, both of which are fakes.

[Mr. Zipper]

A perfect eBay scam. The seller claims the signature is secretarial, but then alludes that it may not be.

So some eBay treasure hunter takes the bait and thinks he might put one over on the seller and get a real Ruth at a bargain price.

A con conning a con.

Of course, the seller has done "nothing wrong" because he claimed all along it was probably secretarial and that is what it was sold as. <wink wink>

[steve B]

Steve, the entire set-up was created in order to create an illusion that would distract you from the actual signatures, both of which are fakes.

So the Ruth letterhead is also fake?

That makes sense now. Beat up covers from anytime during Ruths career are really easy to find. I have boxes full of that sort of cra.......wonderful bits of postal history. :rolleyes:


Steve B