View Full Version : Auction House ending method poll
bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 08:47 AM
What would be your preferred ending template (I say template because I am sure the bid interval time, starting time, and penalties could be modified to any already used format) for Auction Houses?
I know the AH I listed aren't the only ones that do their style of closing, but it was to give an idea by looking at their rules.
Baggers closing rules:
All lots will be open for bidding through 10:30PM EST (7:30PM PDT) even if you have not bid on the lot prior to that time. THERE IS NO EXTENDED BIDING PERIOD. At 10:30 PM EST, LOTS WILL END ON A STAGGERED BASIS EVERY 30 SECONDS starting with Lot #1 and continuing in Lot Number Order. All end times are firm end times.
B-L closing rules:
The auction will go into extended bidding on a lot by lot INDIVIDUAL LOT basis Saturday October 11th at 11:00 p.m. EST. , each lot will close at 11:30 p.m. EST if no further bids are received. As long as bids are received on an individual lot before each 30 minute extension expires that lot will stay open for further bidding. You may use your Max bid feature to keep your position on the lot and/or keep it open until someone tops you. You MUST place a bid on each lot prior to 11:00 p.m. EST on Saturday October 11th to bid on that lot in extended bidding. Please note that if a lot receives no bids prior to the extended bidding, it will close and not be available to be opened in the extended bidding.
REA closing rules (this seems to be the most common format with slight variances):
The final day of bidding for all Lots is Saturday, October 18, 2014. Bids may be placed at any time prior to 9:00 PM EDT, October 18, 2014. The auction is scheduled to close at 9:00 PM EDT on October 18, 2014, HOWEVER, we will continue to accept bids after 9:00 PM EDT on all lots in the auction until approximately 15 minutes pass without either a phone or internet bid. IF YOU HAVE NOT BID ON AN ITEM BEFORE 9:00 PM, YOU CANNOT BID ON IT AFTER 9:00 PM. To ensure that everyone can get through to bid, we will remain open for bids until approximately fifteen minutes pass without a bid.
Here is a pole....(you might consider adding a poll which will get far greater participation than without one)
bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 09:07 AM
Here is a pole....(you might consider adding a poll which will get far greater participation than without one)
I was filling it out when you commented, I didn't know it would post the thread while I was still filling out the Poll. This was my first one, and I kept getting delayed by no knowing what I was doing.
ethicsprof
11-04-2014, 09:27 AM
Here is a pole....(you might consider adding a poll which will get far greater participation than without one)
great looking.
all the best,
barry
bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 09:45 AM
Leon you had the all ending type before the lot-by-lot at B-L, correct?
I know the polling is early, but it seems like the lot-by-lot may seem the front runner (and my expected winner from the other thread). Were you getting a lot of requests for this change, or did you make the change because it worked better for you?
I was filling it out when you commented, I didn't know it would post the thread while I was still filling out the Poll. This was my first one, and I kept getting delayed by no knowing what I was doing.
Gothca, it is definitely confusing the first time. I didn't know *(obviously) you were in the middle of doing it as I wouldn't have posted if I knew. And for transparency (as well as can be seen), I voted for the way B and L auctions end :).
Griffins
11-04-2014, 10:13 AM
Here is a pole....(you might consider adding a poll which will get far greater participation than without one)
I'm glad it's a plain pole. I find tinsel distracting.
barrysloate
11-04-2014, 10:26 AM
I voted for the REA method, but something needs to be implemented so that bidders cannot wait until 3:00 AM to put in their first bids. If you don't bid by a certain time, you would be disqualified.
I know some bidders insist on having the chance to bid at the very end, but the only way to actually do that is to outbid everyone else. You can bid at 3:30 but if it is not high enough, you will get topped at 3:32. Just bid the highest, and everything else will work out.
I voted for the REA method, but something needs to be implemented so that bidders cannot wait until 3:00 AM to put in their first bids. If you don't bid by a certain time, you would be disqualified.
I know some bidders insist on having the chance to bid at the very end, but the only way to actually do that is to outbid everyone else. You can bid at 3:30 but if it is not high enough, you will get topped at 3:32. Just bid the highest, and everything else will work out.
Actually this did not work for me in the last one. I logged in at 3:31 and the lot was closed, at 3:30 am EST, the auction had ended. I was not able to bid again( i had several priors on the lot), had the auction ended earlier lot by lot I can assure you I would have gotten my bid in and won. I attempted to out wait the other bidders and it cost me, the AH and the consignor.
The bidders will conform to whatever type of ending that is formatted. IF you allow them to continue bidding into eternity they will use and abuse the method. IF you force them to pony up and bid towards a more definitive end(lots ending individually), they will bid accordingly. In B&L and others that end individually you can see the bids come in much earlier and the lots get up to speed much sooner than the auctions that everyone knows will end at 3:00 to 5:00 am in the morning. The bidders know the rules and play the game.
In the end, I believe that the vast majority of the lots will bring the same price in either method, the individual ending is just much more user friendly and allows the action to be compressed into a short period of bidding. We had several lots get many, many bids in heads up competition at the end of the last auction, each bidder knew that there could be no extended waiting it out and dueled it out.
oldjudge
11-04-2014, 11:06 AM
As someone who consigns and bids, I think the REA method is fairest to all.
barrysloate
11-04-2014, 11:12 AM
Actually this did not work for me in the last one. I logged in at 3:31 and the lot was closed, at 3:30 am EST, the auction had ended. I was not able to bid again( i had several priors on the lot), had the auction ended earlier lot by lot I can assure you I would have gotten my bid in and won. I attempted to out wait the other bidders and it cost me, the AH and the consignor.
Didn't REA go until about 4:30? Why were you locked out at 3:30? Maybe I'm missing something.
icollectDCsports
11-04-2014, 11:27 AM
Pole? I vote for Festivus.
Didn't REA go until about 4:30? Why were you locked out at 3:30? Maybe I'm missing something.
It was 3:30 my time
Peter_Spaeth
11-04-2014, 11:55 AM
A Dutch auction would be cool and separate the men from the boys.
barrysloate
11-04-2014, 12:07 PM
It was 3:30 my time
Hence, 4:30:o
In all fairness, that is late to check in and you do so at your own risk. You know that going in.
4815162342
11-04-2014, 12:34 PM
Pole? I vote for Festivus.
The Auctions End Too Late thread could be considered the Airing of Grievances.
Next will be the Feats of Strength, err, Feats of Sleep Deprivation.
Finally, all auction houses will join hands, sing Kumbaya, and adopt a universal ending standard that makes everyone happy. A Festivus Miracle!
As someone who consigns and bids, I think the REA method is fairest to all.
You say this as if almost everyone else in this thread isn't a consignor and bidder. ;)
Hey, I want the most for my consignments too!! If I thought I could get more for them another way then I would do it. Even now, if I truly thought the best way to maximize bids would be to do it another way, I would. So far I am not persuaded, as isn't around 80% of the board (the other 2 categories as of now).
And for the record, I love to bid in REA auctions and win something in almost every one. I love to bid in Baggers auctions and have won quite a bit there too. This is only a friendly debate, no more and no less.
Runscott
11-04-2014, 01:16 PM
I have taken a beating no matter what I consigned, or what AH. I'm convinced that a lot of consignors either shill their own auctions or have friends bid for them.
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bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 01:19 PM
And for the record, I love to bid in REA auctions and win something in almost every one. I love to bid in Baggers auctions and have won quite a bit there too. This is only a friendly debate, no more and no less.
Yes, I was going to mention in the original post but forgot.
This isn't really about which auction is good or isn't or which auction is preferred. Purely which format/template does each person prefer.
I am a convert though. I know I liked the REA format and when B-L changed I think I stated I didn't like it. Now I prefer the lot by lot format between the two options (Bagger's format is my current preference).
bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 01:21 PM
I have taken a beating no matter what I consigned, or what AH. I'm convinced that a lot of consignors either shill their own auctions or have friends bid for them.
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Not saying you're are wrong, but this seems like a bigger risk with an AH than ebay from the shiller. The BP would really make you pay if you overdo it.
Runscott
11-04-2014, 01:24 PM
Perhaps, but I know for a fact that it happens.
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bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 01:44 PM
As someone who consigns and bids, I think the REA method is fairest to all.
You say this as if almost everyone else in this thread isn't a consignor and bidder. ;)
That is a more interesting way of breaking this down even more, are you a consignor?
I have consigned, but only once so I wouldn't consider myself a consignor. So my vote for Bagger's is purely from the point of view as a bidder. I don't know if my opinion would change if I was a consistent consignor.
That is a more interesting way of breaking this down even more, are you a consignor?
I have consigned, but only once so I wouldn't consider myself a consignor. So my vote for Bagger's is purely from the point of view as a bidder. I don't know if my opinion would change if I was a consistent consignor.
I have consigned to many auction houses, including my own. It is no secret and I would say some folks have gotten very good deals on some of those cards.
So I do look at it from a consignors point of view. However, As a collector/bidder I won't lose in any of these auction methods if I HAVE to have something and have the money to get it. I CAN stay awake if I have to. :) (and have done so many times). I would just prefer to duke it out and get it over with....and think that I will spend more that way too. But who knows...
Exhibitman
11-04-2014, 02:36 PM
Allowing bids on any lot in O/T and not closing lot by lot definitely increases the prices realized overall in a major auction. I know I am not unique in this respect. I am a budget bidder and I have had a number of situations where my bid triaging has led to my not being able to bid on some items, which has cost the consignors money. It happened in August in Huggins & Scott. They had an incredible basketball card offering. I was pursuing something and had to assume a budget maximum win there. When I lost the priority item in O/T I was then unable to pursue any of the alternative basketball cards I would have liked to have bid on because I had not bid on those lots before O/T. The consignor lost out and I lost out. Only the bidders who got those cards won. H & S recognizes that is the consequence of a lot-by-lot closing system--it touts its system as bidder friendly in the auction rules--and by definition that means it is consignor unfriendly. If I have a choice as a consignor between a lot by lot AH and an entire auction close AH, all other things being equal I will go with the all close at once company.
GaryPassamonte
11-04-2014, 03:06 PM
I believe an auction that closes all lots at the same time favors consignors as well as bidders with large bankrolls. Auctions that close lot by lot give bidders with smaller bankrolls a better chance. Taken one step further, conventional live auctions force all bidders to make immediate decisions and give the average bidder a better chance. Therefore, as a consignor, I favor all lots closing at one time. As a bidder, I prefer either a lot by lot closing or a live auction.
bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 06:00 PM
Though I did believe the lot-by-lot would be in the lead based off the "too late" thread, I am still surprised that it is over 60% with the "all at once" option getting the least votes at just over 17%.
earlywynnfan
11-04-2014, 06:21 PM
I choose the MEARS option, an improved-upon B-L style, with lots closing individually after 15 minutes. Why have them hang around for half an hour? Hunt's does 20 minutes.
Ken
bn2cardz
11-04-2014, 06:38 PM
I choose the MEARS option, an improved-upon B-L style, with lots closing individually after 15 minutes. Why have them hang around for half an hour? Hunt's does 20 minutes.
Ken
That is why I am specifying the "template" because as noted the bid interval, starting times, and penalties for bidding after a certain time can be implemented to any of these basic ideas and I am not going to list every auctions current set up.
Jason
11-05-2014, 01:09 PM
Definitely prefer B&L's closing method to any other out there.
bn2cardz
11-05-2014, 02:25 PM
Obviously we are a small sampling of the overall collectible auction world, but I wonder if these results reflect the large mass of people.
Also how many that voted for Bagger's firm stop time lot by lot would prefer the B-L template if it was only between that and the REA template. I know my vote would. So does this mean the REA template is archaic? Or is this sampling size too small to make any determination?