Is this typical for SGC holders?

[Jetsfan]

I just received my first submission from SGC, and one of my T206 and one 1915 Cracker Jack were not seated in the proper location centrally. I was able to manipulate them back into place, but the T206 in particular does not seem very secure in it's position. Is thus typical for SGC?

Adam

[JollyRoger]

I've had cards move out of place before in SGC holders also.

[CMIZ5290]

I just received my first submission from SGC, and one of my T206 and one 1915 Cracker Jack were not seated in the proper location centrally. I was able to manipulate them back into place, but the T206 in particular does not seem very secure in it's position. Is thus typical for SGC?

Adam

Yes, a lot...

[Stonepony]

Due to the ongoing problem of poorly seated cards and cabinets, I've switched to PSA. I want my cards safe and secure above all else. I hope at some point SGC acknowledges and fixes the problem as I do prefer their service and aesthetics.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I have had it happen several times and I don't buy that many SGC cards. But that said no damage ever was done.

[iwantitiwinit]

I have more than several Sgc t206's that are not seated properly. In some instances the insert section is clearly smaller than the cards and they cannot be urged in place. On others the cards have simply slipped behind the insert because the insert isn't thick enough to be seated tightly enough against the two pieces of the plastic slab. In my opinion they suck and its a major problem. I try to stay with psa whenever possible.

[Jetsfan]

Thanks for the responses. Not sure what I'll do in the future, as I prefer how SGC grades based on my limited experience.

[Peter_Spaeth]

You would think with all the fuss about the flip, attention could be paid to an issue that really matters? Or maybe it's just inherent in the use of a gasket type insert?

[pcoz]

It has happened, but very infrequently. What drives me nuts even more is my floating card inside a PSA holder.

[slipk1068]

I have had it happen several times and I don't buy that many SGC cards. But that said no damage ever was done.

I think the issue did damage to 1 of my cards. Caused some chipping on the back of a high grade T206 common I purchased a couple months ago.

Does anyone know if they are doing anything to address this issue? I got this 1 in the mail a couple weeks ago. It is the 4th time this year I received a floating card in the mail. If I send it back to SGC will they reholder it and will this fix the problem?

I like graded cards because I feel it is the best way to protect them from damage. This isn't working for me.

[Kawika]

Won these T4s this past spring. This is how they arrived out of the box.
http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/miscellany2/large/DSC06048a_1.jpg

Returned them to the AH who sent them to SGC for reholdering. Three months later I got them back. This time they were in a plastic sleeve. One stayed put, the other was still trying to escape.

If I were SGC I would be embarrassed.

http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/miscellany2/large/exT4%20Stewart1%20fixed.jpg http://photos.imageevent.com/kawika_o_ka_pakipika/sportscardsetc/mischidden/miscellany2/large/exT4%20Stewart2%20fixed.jpg

[calvindog]

David, that's ridiculous. And you're a more patient man than me. Three months??

[Kawika]

Fourteen weeks actually from the day I sent them off 'til the day I got them back. Part of the slow turnaround was on the AH but the mediocre slab job is all on SGC.

[chipperhank44]

Continues to baffle me that aesthetics and resale are apparently more important factors than protection when people choose a TPG.....

[vthobby]

If you have ever owned or seen a Beckett holder there is NO QUESTION that they are the #1 TPG for card protection. Not even close to the others. They vacuum seal the card in a "penny plastic" and the card does NOT Move whatsoever.

I love them. BUT.....................for vintage, they are not practical if you want to ever get top dollar for your cards. Sad but true. For newer cards, BGS is still #1 for getting top dollar but vintage is what most of us on here collect me thinks.

If only SGC and PSA actually took the time to maybe copy or start using similar practices, these problems would virtually disappear. :cool:

peace, mike

[the 'stache]

Adam, I've had cards I received in the mail like that. And this wasn't from SGC. These cards were coming from Net 54 members, and they were packed immaculately. The first one I got like that was my old Walter Johnson portrait. I was a little on edge when I pulled the card out of the wrapping. Luckily, it hadn't been damaged in transit.

You'd think by now they've heard this enough to the point where they would be looking into fixing the problem.

[Jetsfan]

I've only been on the board a short while, but I hadn't really seen this before. You'd think this would be a priority for SGC.

[tiger8mush]

If you have ever owned or seen a Beckett holder there is NO QUESTION that they are the #1 TPG for card protection. Not even close to the others. They vacuum seal the card in a "penny plastic" and the card does NOT Move whatsoever.


I agree. In addition to the card not moving internally, the outer plastic is thicker/tougher than SGC/PSA. Unfortunately card protection usually ranks below slip/aesthetics/resale value on collector's reason for TPG submissions.

[tiger8mush]

p.s. I crack many of my cards, but here are a couple I still have in Beckett holders (or at least did at one point) ...
Rob
:)

[vthobby]

That Gabby is cool. Can you imagine catching Walter Johnson!?!?!?!? Now there is a story for the grandkids! Not really related but kinda....I actually met Walter Johnson's grandson a couple of times. He does the larger shows and is a super cool person by the name of Henry Thomas. He wrote a GREAT book on the big train.

Back to your cards, the Luke Easter card is also very cool. Love the artwork and colors!

Peace, mike

[the 'stache]

Beautiful '53 Bowman Musial. One of my three favorite cards of all-time.

[t206hound]

I'm a very loyal SGC customer. I'm just a little guy... a hobbyist/collector/flipper, but in a little over four years I've submitted 1300 T206s to be graded by them. THEY HAVE TO ADDRESS THIS PROBLEM. My previous two submissions have had a few cards come back out of their "gaskets"... at a 15-25% clip. My opinion is that this is ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE. The issue has been mentioned on this site numerous times, and SGC undoubtedly reads threads on this board.

The cards are always well packaged, but somehow this continues to happen. I just received a package of 20 cards, 3 were slightly out of place and I just simply tapped them back in. Look at these two... a gasket that allows this to occur at a rate of 25% is flawed. IT MUST BE FIXED. I am really thinking about whether or not my next batch of cards goes to SGC.

I find it really disturbing that SGC listened to purely cosmetic complaints about the new flip yet has allowed this structural issue go on without any acknowledgment of a problem or a plan to fix it. I'm disappointed.

-Erick Summers

[bobbyw8469]

Got this back from an SGC sub today. Maybe a thicker gasket is the solution for T206's??

http://img2.sellersourcebook.com/users/73693/@@_img015_1414450438.jpg

[CMIZ5290]

Erick-This is really amazing to me. Most guys on this forum are pro SGC, and this has been a constant problem with T206s since I can remember. PSA holders not an issue at all, and resale value is not even comparable...What am I missing?

[Mighty Casey]

I received 3 T205s and a W512 from SGC on Friday. One of the T205s had strayed from its gasket by quite a bit. I was able to maneuver it back into position...but my frustration still remains.

[3-2-count]

It's no secret that this has gone on for far too long. Shameful............

[iwantitiwinit]

I smell a boycott.

P. S. Erik I like that Hallman, I'd give you 60% of fair value given its in a defective holder.

[Kawika]

I smell a boycott.
The last thing I want to do is boycott SGC. I have always preferred them over the other grading companies. That being said there is definitely room for improvement in many areas and I am reluctant to send in cards for slabbing until they pull up their socks.

[4815162342]

Erick-This is really amazing to me. Most guys on this forum are pro SGC, and this has been a constant problem with T206s since I can remember. PSA holders not an issue at all, and resale value is not even comparable...What am I missing?


I've wondered the same thing.

[atx840]

Shown before, SGC fixed them at the National.

http://i.imgur.com/dDdZbhV.jpg

[icollectDCsports]

Horrible.

[t206hound]

Erick-This is really amazing to me. Most guys on this forum are pro SGC, and this has been a constant problem with T206s since I can remember. PSA holders not an issue at all, and resale value is not even comparable...What am I missing?

I guess I'm a junkie. I used to submit solely to PSA, but I had a few issues with them in addition to the duration of time it took to do my grading and registered mail shipping coast-to-coast. Since then, I've been exclusive to SGC. I am very disappointed that there has been no acknowledgement from them.

I'm giving them one more chance. I just sent in ten more cards under a special.

[3-2-count]

Erick I'm guessing these would be all lower graded cards you plan to send in. Look, I'm an SGC guy as well, but if I had cards that were mid to higher grade all be damned if I'd be sending them to SGC until they correct this whole gasket slippage problem in fear of damage to my higher valued nicer condition cards.

Just one collectors stance on this issue.

[t206hound]

Erick I'm guessing these would be all lower graded cards you plan to send in. Look, I'm an SGC guy as well, but if I had cards that were mid to higher grade all be damned if I'd be sending them to SGC until they correct this whole gasket slippage problem in fear of damage to my higher valued nicer condition cards.

Just one collectors stance on this issue.

Yup... all lower grade stuff (SGC 50-60 max for sure). If I had anything REALLY valuable, I wouldn't be taking this chance.

[The Nasty Nati]

That happened to me with a few of my cards from a submission last month. I was able to knock them back in place but I find that unacceptable. You pay for a grade and a holder, but if the holder can't even hold the card what's the point? Also I found that compared to PSA, SGC holders scratch way too easily not to mention sometimes you'll get a freshly graded card back and there's smudge marks all over the inside of the plastic holder.

Still I'm happy in general with SGC's customer service. I was one of the people complaining about the new flip without the green border and SGC listened and changed it. I just wish they would resolve this gasket issue that's been a problem for far too long. I too wouldn't trust submitting cards graded say higher than a 6 for fear that they will come loose in the gasket and come back damaged in the mail.

[JeremyW]

I'm not a big card collector or card submitter, but SGC needs to get off their knees here, they're blowing it. An acknowledgement would go a long way.

[Exhibitman]

Thus far I've not had any issues with my submissions but that could be because they nearly always are thicker cards like Exhibits or custom gasket cards.

If it wasn't for the financial aspect of things I'd send everything to Beckett. Unfortunately, having the better product isn't necessarily a predictor of success.

[the-illini]

I collect a lot of cabinet-sized cards (M101-6s, Kashin Premiums) and frankly the cards are at more risk of damage inside those shitty SGC gaskets than they are in a plastic sleeve. I have dozens of those cards in SGC holders right now and they slide all over with minimal jostling. I have had M101-6's slide out of the gasket in a car ride across town.

It's great that they listened to their customers about the design of the flip, but getting this fixed is essential to their business being worth using IMO. The flip can be neon pink as far as I am concerned; I won't be using SGC again until this gets corrected.

[iwantitiwinit]

I'm guessing that SGC has not responded because this isn't a quick fix. If they intend on fixing it they either need a thicker gasket or redesigned holder or both. At the very least a fix will be time consuming and costly as they have to replace inventory.

[GoldenAge50s]

It would be a big plus if Sean or Earl would at least address the issue here on this thread.

Say SOMETHING to all the loyal SGC customers!

[CMIZ5290]

It would be a big plus if Sean or Earl would at least address the issue here on this thread.

Say SOMETHING to all the loyal SGC customers!

good luck with that...

[CMIZ5290]

I'm guessing that SGC has not responded because this isn't a quick fix. If they intend on fixing it they either need a thicker gasket or redesigned holder or both. At the very least a fix will be time consuming and costly as they have to replace inventory.

This has been an ongoing situation with SGC. Quite frankly, I am amazed that more threads have not come about because of this. I had a T206 SGC 96 that this happened to me, fortunately, they reholdered it and there was no damage...

[RGold]

I sorta enjoy getting my SGC cards back in the gasket. All you Cracker Jack lovers should remember this. :D:D:D

http://photos.imageevent.com/rgold/ebay/image_16.jpg

[CMIZ5290]

I sorta enjoy getting my SGC cards back in the gasket. All you Cracker Jack lovers should remember this. :D:D:D

http://photos.imageevent.com/rgold/ebay/image_16.jpg

Nice call...

[RGold]

+100

[Stonepony]

He's comparing maneuvering the clown face to get the tiny silver balls in the eye slots.... To the SGC gasket tap. Both take a degree of luck and skill

[CMIZ5290]

He's comparing maneuvering the clown face to get the tiny silver balls in the eye slots.... To the SGC gasket tap. Both take a degree of luck and skill

Yep, that's spot on...Great observation Ron! Maybe SGC will get better...

[HOFAUTOS]

I had a Ty Cobb signed 3x5 a few years back where the holder just came unsealed. Split apart with no signs of damage. Crazy to think of the potential switching that can take place.

[bbcard1]

I strongly prefer SGC as a grading service because their slabs are easies to break the cards out of.

[the-illini]

SGC's quality with regard to customer service has dropped off a cliff since Brian Dwyer left IMO. I won't be using their product any longer until they decide that the item that HOLDS THE CARD deserves the same attention as the piece of paper they redesigned after a few complaints.

Maybe if they lose enough customers they will design a quality gasket. Seems like it would be a fairly high priority, but what do I know.

[ValKehl]

good luck with that...

IMO, SGC's silence is deafening. Unfortunately, many organizations believe that silence is the best way to handle "damage control." Personally, I'm much more inclined to patronize an organization that quickly steps up to the plate with a "mea culpa" coupled with a vow to remedy the problem.
Val

[brewing]

The slab in my opinion the weakest part of SGC.

The slippage seems to occur with the thinner prewar cards. If a thicker gasket is not possible then maybe they could add plastic bumpers like PSA.

I'd love to see them improve the slab by making them smaller and more tamper resistant.

Brent Ingr@ m

[The Nasty Nati]

SGC's biggest problem with their gaskets indeed seem to be for the smaller tobacco cards. I found this highly ironic because T206's are SGC's bread and butter and yet the gasket for those cards hardly ever fit properly. I understand T206s have different sizes, but that shouldn't be a reason SGC can't make a gasket that fits all T206s. PSA has done it, SGC needs to figure out a solution. My suggestion would to make the gasket plastic and not hand cut cardboard. Of course to stick with the lovely black gasket, I'd make the plastic black to still standout from PSA.

[the-illini]

SGC's biggest problem with their gaskets indeed seem to be for the smaller tobacco cards. I found this highly ironic because T206's are SGC's bread and butter and yet the gasket for those cards hardly ever fit properly. I understand T206s have different sizes, but that shouldn't be a reason SGC can't make a gasket that fits all T206s. PSA has done it, SGC needs to figure out a solution. My suggestion would to make the gasket plastic and not hand cut cardboard. Of course to stick with the lovely black gasket, I'd make the plastic black to still standout from PSA.
Gaskets for oversized cards are as bad, if not worse, than the standard sized holder for tobacco cards; there are just fewer cards in these holders in terms of volume.


Essentially all of SGC's gaskets seem to be a problem from what I have seen.

[bunst]

My suggestion would to make the gasket plastic and not hand cut cardboard. Of course to stick with the lovely black gasket, I'd make the plastic black to still standout from PSA.

I believe they are plastic. At least the ones I have cracked out were thin and flimsy plastic. This gasket problem is not just an inconvenience or aesthetic issue. 2 out of the 3 T206's in SGC slabs I received recently were out of place and corners were damaged as a result. THERE IS A SIGNIFICANT RISK OF DAMAGE TO CARDS BECAUSE OF THIS PROBLEM.

[bobbyw8469]

SGC's biggest problem with their gaskets indeed seem to be for the smaller tobacco cards. I found this highly ironic because T206's are SGC's bread and butter and yet the gasket for those cards hardly ever fit properly. I understand T206s have different sizes, but that shouldn't be a reason SGC can't make a gasket that fits all T206s. PSA has done it, SGC needs to figure out a solution. My suggestion would to make the gasket plastic and not hand cut cardboard. Of course to stick with the lovely black gasket, I'd make the plastic black to still standout from PSA.

Just a thicker paper stock would make a world of difference. If the gasket is thicker than the card, the card can't escape it!

[SGC]

Hi Guys,

We realize that we are a little late responding to this thread. We have been looking into the issue and waiting to respond until we had some useful information. So to the question, "Is this typical for SGC holders?" The answer to that question is "no" and it seems to be an issue with the insert we use for T206 sized cards. Most of the people on this board have been submitting cards to SGC for years without experiencing cards moving within the holder so we are confident that this issue is isolated.

We believe the black insert adds much appeal to our product, however it is sometimes difficult to have the card remain in place if the insert is not produced properly. This is especially true for cards that are undersized for the issue or cards that are of thin card stock. Any slight variance in the insert can cause card movement. We have gone through our inventory and discovered that some of the inserts that we use for T206 sized cards had some minor warping. This warping can disturb the precision of the fit and create space allowing for movement. We have also noticed a slight difference in size of the die-cut or opening where the card sits. The dies that are used to make the inserts wear down (producing a less precise cut) over time and we have had new ones produced over the years by our manufacturer. As best as we can determine, it appears that the cards that have shifted in the holder were encapsulated with inserts cut from an older die, some with larger openings.

Going forward we will be adding to our Quality Control process a visual inspection of the inserts to ensure that the die cut opening is uniform and free of warping.

For those of you who have received cards that have shifted in the holder, we ask that you return them to SGC so they can be re-holdered with a proper fitting insert. This will be done free of charge.

We apologize for any inconvenience this has caused and please know that we are working hard to make sure that these issues do not occur going forward. We appreciate your patience, understanding and loyalty.

Regards,

Sean Skeffington
SGC

If anyone has any questions, please contact me directly at sskeffington@sgccard.com

[toledo_mudhen]

Pretty sure that I have never seen attorney Joe Orlando address ANY issue up close and personal on a public forum. Just sayin...........

[GoldenAge50s]

That's good enough for me!

Thanks Sean, for addressing the problem and more importantly, for promising to FIX the problem!

[t206blogcom]

Good to see SGC addressing the issues!

[Luke]

Nice post Sean. I like SGC for my tobacco and caramel cards, and I personally have never had this problem. If I had, I would be very pleased by your offer to re-holder the cards with warped holders.