The True RC's of the T206 set.

[The Nasty Nati]

I'm curious what are the true rookie cards found in the T206 set?

I know Zach Wheat is one, but are there others? Some claim that Tris Speaker is, but is that his true rookie card?

Old Cardboard has a nice list of HOF rookies (http://www.oldcardboard.com/ref/rookies/RookiesList.asp) but I was wondering if anyone knows if there are other rookie cards in the set, like the minor stars.

[bn2cardz]

I don't know about every one, but of the two you mentioned I know some consider the Novelty Cutlery as Speaker's Rookie (if you count PostCards):
http://apr13.hugginsandscott.com/cgi-bin/showitem.pl?itemid=55712

For speaker there is also a E90-1. Since Speaker is a group 2 for t206 that makes his t206 a 1910. That would means that it is possible the e90-1 predates it his t206 by a year.

Zack wheat wasn't found in any other set that predates or at the same time as his t206

[Bicem]

Novelty Cutlery is 1910.

[h2oya311]

> Speaker - I have struggled with classifying his rookie card to date. Most have generally accepted that his t206 is his rookie card. But there are a few postcards that pre-date it: the 1908 Little Rock Travelers Team PC and the 1908-09 Rose Company Poscard (if it exists). Until recently, most would have considered the Novelty Cutlery PC to have pre-dated the t206 since it was categorized as having been issued from 1907-09. To date, no Novelty Cutlery PC's have had a cancellation date prior to 1910, which is why Jeff (bicem) believes them to be a 1910 issue.

> Wheat - here's an interesting one. There are several cabinet photos that pre-date his 1910 T206. There's a 1900's Kelso Studio Cabinet Card, a 1906 Prairie Roses Team Cabinet, and a 1906 Cabinet (showing him in a Union City uniform). For some reason, I have always though of the 1909-12 PX7 Sweet Caporal Domino Discs as his rookie card, but don't ask me why.

> Marquard - The T206 of Marquard (w/ 150 back / hands at side) is often thought to be his rookie card by collectors, although I would prefer the few minor league cards that pre-date his T206, namely the 1907 Canton Ohio Team PC and/or the 1908 Indianapolis PC (where he is incorrectly named "Charles Marquard"). Additionally, there is a 1908 Hall's Studio Cabinet of Marquard, although I'm not sure I've ever seen one before, I've only seen it checklisted. Obviously, there are a few concurrent cards from 1909, but not many, so I think it's okay to call the Marquard (hands at side / 150 series) a "rookie" card as well.

I don't think any other HOF player in the T206 set should be considered a rookie card other than the three listed above. Coming to a consensus on "true rookie" is a herculean effort that won't be resolved in this thread (or ever).

I'm not sure about any of the non-HOF players in the set, unfortunately.

[GregMitch34]

I wonder why the Marquard hands-at-side gets no price bump at all in sales, in fact it's usually one of the very average or below average types for a HOFer for t206.

[Baseball Rarities]

> Until recently, most would have considered the Novelty Cutlery PC to have pre-dated the t206 since it was categorized as having been issued from 1907-09. To date, no Novelty Cutlery PC's have had a cancellation date prior to 1910, which is why Jeff (bicem) believes them to be a 1910 issue.


Both the PC805 Novelty Cutlery and PC796 Sepia postcards definitely come from 1910. I made a pretty detailed post about this in the past, but it basically comes down to the fact that many of the players in the set are pictured in uniforms that were not used until 1909. The earliest postmark that I have found for either of these sets is October 14, 1910, which makes sense as many of the postcard sets of that era were initially produced around the time of the World Series.

Lastly, Beckett always classified these sets as being from 1910. For some reason, when The Sports Collectors Bible added the PC805 Novelty Cutlery set to their book, they dated it as being from 1907, which makes no sense since they already included the PC796 Sepia set and dated that one at 1910. This error has been copied by other price guides ever since.

[h2oya311]

Kevin - thanks (as always) for the detailed explanation re: PC805

[wolf441]

I wonder why the Marquard hands-at-side gets no price bump at all in sales, in fact it's usually one of the very average or below average types for a HOFer for t206.

I think it's because his numbers don't really stack up as a true HOFer. 201-177 for mostly top tier teams and with a 3.08 ERA in the dead ball era. It seems to be the same it terms of sales with guys like Flick and Bresnahan, at least when compared to the prices for normal HOF guys like Wheat, Eddie Collins, etc...

[freakhappy]

I'm sure this has been covered many times over, but what qualifies as a "rookie card"? Any ol picture under the sun, a postcard (is this really considered a baseball card?), or an actual trading card like t206s or t205s, etc.,?

Just trying to understand what is accepted amongst the community.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[edhans]

]

For speaker there is also a E90-1. Since Speaker is a group 2 for t206 that makes his t206 a 1910. That would means that it is possible the e90-1 predates it his t206 by a year.


Speaker's E90-1 is almost certainly a late 1910 or 1911 issue.

[bn2cardz]

Speaker's E90-1 is almost certainly a late 1910 or 1911 issue.

Not saying you are wrong, but what makes you date it later? I really don't know of any research done on dating the subjects in this set (I am sure it has been done, but I am ignorant on the subject). That is why I only said it was possible.