Yogi Berra Museum Broke into

[yanks12025]

http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/baseball/yankees/break-yogi-berra-museum-priceless-memorabilia-stolen-article-1.1967277

[khkco4bls]

F*#$ ing scum bags. Rot in hell........

[Teamgluck]

Very upset about this they stole MVP trophies & all his WS rings

[ullmandds]

This is right by my parents house...they mentioned it to me yesterday. Why do these dumbasses steal things that cannot possibly be re-sold without raising attention? Crooks can be real idiots!

[jbhofmann]

Isn't there a Kreindler hanging in there?

Yogi/Larson

[RichardSimon]

This is right by my parents house...they mentioned it to me yesterday. Why do these dumbasses steal things that cannot possibly be re-sold without raising attention? Crooks can be real idiots!

I would bet a lot of money that the thieves had a ready buyer for this stuff and that some scumbag collector will bury them in his collection forever.
The thieves were not idiots.
This is just another sad chapter for the hobby.

[TimCarrollArt]

I know it happens (and has happened throughout time with priceless works of art, etc.).......

I just can't understand the rationale behind wanting these type of stolen items in your collection. You can't display them. You can't show them off. You certainly can't sell them on the open market. The only type of person that would be willing to buy them is yet another person that is willing to own the pieces for some sort of self-enjoyment. I am certainly no psychologist/psychiatrist, but there has to be a disconnect somewhere with that line of thought.

To me, something is only worth having if I can share my enjoyment from it with others. That's the beauty of museums - we all get to share the experience of seeing the items. Too sad that we are all being deprived of that opportunity......

Tim

[MVSNYC]

Very upset about this they stole MVP trophies & all his WS rings

The article did not say that...it mentions that the MVP's and rings are on display there, not that they were part of what was stolen.

Any updates as to what exactly was taken?

[packs]

I'm sure if you stole something innocuous as a game used bat or jersey and waited long enough people would forget. People sell NYPL and HOF stolen items all the time and no one seems to mind.

[rjackson44]

im ten minutes away according to the ;local news they are not releasing what was taken ,,,sad story :mad:

[Misha]

I read that in the fine art world, if a major piece is stolen, it almost always has a waiting buyer who basically commissioned the theft to add to their private collection. You can't just steal a Picasso and peddle it on the open market.

[thebigtrain]

Evidence is pretty strong that the late Barry Halper commissioned and/or orchestrated thefts from the NYPL and Boston Libraries, and also municipal archives (Wills signed by HOF players etc). However, he mostly was in this game before these things achieved the sort of insane values that they now have. But it goes to show that wealthy uber-collectors are not above theft to augment their collections.

I agree that whoever did this was likely "hired" by a high-end collector, and if so, the stuff will vanish for years, maybe forever. Anyone smart enough to pull off a "professional" heist like this isn't dumb enough to start peddling this stuff via ebay or the major auction houses.

Another interesting thing is the comparisons to art thefts. Art is much more a "global" market than baseball memorabilia. I doubt a Saudi prince or French hedge-fund manager even knows or cares who Yogi Berra is, but of course they would know who Picasso is.

Hence, if it is a private collector who commissioned this theft, it is likely a wealthy, white, male, American, baby-boomer age person who wanted the stuff for their own sick gratification.

Poor Yogi. I live in north NJ and have friends who have "run into" him at restaurants and such and said he is the nicest person you could ever want to meet. I bet this breaks his heart, he was so proud of the Center and it did great things in the community. I hope they catch the scumbag behind this and he serves some real prison time.

[bigtrain]

Evidence is pretty strong that the late Barry Halper commissioned and/or orchestrated thefts from the NYPL and Boston Libraries, and also municipal archives (Wills signed by HOF players etc). However, he mostly was in this game before these things achieved the sort of insane values that they now have. But it goes to show that wealthy uber-collectors are not above theft to augment their collections.

I agree that whoever did this was likely "hired" by a high-end collector, and if so, the stuff will vanish for years, maybe forever. Anyone smart enough to pull off a "professional" heist like this isn't dumb enough to start peddling this stuff via ebay or the major auction houses.

Another interesting thing is the comparisons to art thefts. Art is much more a "global" market than baseball memorabilia. I doubt a Saudi prince or French hedge-fund manager even knows or cares who Yogi Berra is, but of course they would know who Picasso is.

Hence, if it is a private collector who commissioned this theft, it is likely a wealthy, white, male, American, baby-boomer age person who wanted the stuff for their own sick gratification.

Poor Yogi. I live in north NJ and have friends who have "run into" him at restaurants and such and said he is the nicest person you could ever want to meet. I bet this breaks his heart, he was so proud of the Center and it did great things in the community. I hope they catch the scumbag behind this and he serves some real prison time.

Respectfully, I am not aware of "very strong evidence" supporting the contention that Barry Halper commissioned or orchestrated any thefts and I was under the impression that one was required to post their own name in order to make such accusations on this site

[ibuysportsephemera]

My daughter is a freshman at Montclair and I was really looking forward to visiting the museum. I hope not too much was taken.

Jeff

[6-4-3memorabilia]

I was a volunteer there from 2005 to 2007. Cant believe this happened. Yogi has had a tuff year with losing his wife and selling his home that he lived in for 40 years. Hope they catch the scum bags

[thebigtrain]

Respectfully, I am not aware of "very strong evidence" supporting the contention that Barry Halper commissioned or orchestrated any thefts and I was under the impression that one was required to post their own name in order to make such accusations on this site

Here is the article (and yes, I am aware Nash has problems, but that doesn't mean he's not correct re: Halper):

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=1465#more-1465

Halper is a proven liar. He lied to Robert Creamer and said he was pals with Jimmie Foxx when Foxx coached the U of Miami baseball team. Fact is that Foxx was already gone by the time Harper enrolled at the school, and furthermore Halper was never on the baseball team. These are verified, proven lies which Halper told re: his acquisition of the forged "500 HR" autograph sheet (the Ruth auto has also been proven a forgery and a very poor one at that. Halper told conflicting lies about how he acquired that Ruth auto).

There are many other lies Halper peddled which Nash has written about, and these lies have been verified as lies by 3rd parties. His story of acquiring 19th century unis from Ollie O'Mara has been confirmed as a lie by O'Mara's son. In fact, just about every acquisition story ever told by Halper has been proven a lie, such that one assumes the man was fundamentally dishonest and engaged in perpetuating fraud. There are way too many pieces from his collection which are traceable to NYPL and other institutions for him to have been "in the dark" about their provenance. The HOF didn't remove his name from their exhibit because of Peter Nash.

Yes, Halper is dead now, and not available to be cross-examined or held to answer for his lies. But anyone who believes he was himself "duped" or didn't know how much of his stuff was stolen or forged is simply delusional.

[bigtrain]

First if all, Peter Nash does not "have problems".
He is a liar, a con man, a thief, an admitted and
convicted criminal. Halper may have lied as you
have stated but your claim was that he commissioned
or orchestrated thefts of memorabilia. I gave yet to
hear a shred of evidence to back that up.

[thebigtrain]

As Nash's article source states re: the NYPL thefts, "all roads lead to Barry Halper"

http://haulsofshame.com/blog/?p=4323

Seems like the evidence is rather overwhelming IMO.

Nash's issues have no relevance to this debate. An arsonist can still tell you if a building is on fire or not.

Halper told so many outrageous and proven lies about so many of his items that I believe the circumstantial evidence that he was involved in NYPL thefts- i,e., over 100 stolen NYPL items in his personal collection- points to the fact that he orchestrated the thefts or at least knew the items were stolen.

Let's reacap some of Halpers verified lies:

1. He said he played for Foxx at U of Miami and got Foxx and Foxx's pal Mel Ott to give him autos. Facts is Foxx was already gone when Halper started school at U Miami, and the team's captain (who was an actual friend of Foxx) said Halper was never on the baseball team.

2. Halper said he purchased the Joe Jackson fake uni via a cash deal through the mail with Jackson's heirs. He also told another reporter he bought it from Jackson's widow in the late 50s. Both stories were obvious lies as the jersey was a fake made in the 1950s or later since it had synthetic thread.

3. Halper's 19th century unis were all fakes. He claimed old Dodger Ollie O'Mara was his source and that for unknown reasons O'Mara collected and saved these old uniforms (which makes no sense- why would O'Mara have 1890s unis when he played ball 15 to 20 years later)? Nash interviewed O'Mara's son who said his father was penniless and never had any old uniforms or memorabilia period. Thus, another huge Halper lie about items that were themselves forgeries.

The "Halper was duped" excuse just doesn't fly. Halper himself fabricated lie upon verifiable lie about the source and provenance of utterly counterfeit items. This illustrates that Halper either bought these fakes and then created the stories, or else Halper commissioned others to CREATE these fakes and then made up the stories. Given his wealth, I tend to believe Halper hired people to create these fakes.

Either way, Halper is a proven liar and swindler. He knew full well these items were fake and still sold them to the HOF and duped collectors/bidders to enrich himself. He also knew full well that certain items were stolen from the NYPL and other public institutions. His behavior was sociopathic, fundamentally dishonest, and just plain wrong. If he was alive today he would likely be facing lawsuits and possible indictment for frauds and swindles.

His entire persona and "celebrity" such as it was revolved around having the greatest baseball collection on Earth, and he relished and basked in the attention it brought him. Having been born a silver spooner and never really having accomplished anything of value/importance in his own life (other than living high off inherited money), his collection was his sole "accomplishment". When thought about in a psychological sense, it becomes clear what Halper was up to, and why he did what he did.

[bigtrain]

I get that you think Halper was a liar and a bad guy,
Once again, that is not the same thing as saying he
orchestrated or commissioned thefts. If there is any
proof that Halper, either directly or indirectly hired
someone to steal artifacts, I have not heard it yet.

[murphusa]

Halper was a salesman, and a very good one, but he also was a believer to his own fault.
He had a group of dealers who he regularly did business with. He also had a thirst for baseball memorabilia. He had money
Put two and two together and you could write his story, because that is what he did in my opinion. He expanded on the story he was told or made them his own.
I highly doubt that he was responsible for the theft of the wills etc.
They were offered by dealers at flea markets, antiques store and at auctions (under the table, in the parking lots) in NE PA, North Jersey, Conn and Mass during the 70’s,80’s and 90’s
They then made it into the hands of Halper and other high end collectors.

[packs]

I read today in the NY Post that some of his World Series rings and two of his three MVP plaques were stolen.

[Leon]

Respectfully, I am not aware of "very strong evidence" supporting the contention that Barry Halper commissioned or orchestrated any thefts and I was under the impression that one was required to post their own name in order to make such accusations on this site

I have seen this thread but haven't opened it in a few days. Contrary to popular belief I don't/can't read every post on the board. I was just made aware of it. The general rules of the board are pretty easy and open. Put your name by it and say almost anything (when done civilly) you want to. I just called the phone number on file for our member, thebigtrain, and it is not who he said it is. So he is gone until further notice and he proves to my satisfaction who he is AND he puts his full, real name in his posts. The phone number on file is from the 201 area code, NJ, I believe.

[Robert_Lifson]

Important clarification in case this is missed: What makes this thread so interesting in my opinion, and what I think might be lost on most readers (in the absence of this post), is that the very person who has fraudulently signed up on Net54 with a fake name and contact info with the user ID “thebigtrain” (a name obviously chosen to create confusion with longtime poster “bigtrain”) is – I personally have no doubt - none other than Peter Nash himself.

To me, this is extremely amusing. Especially this line where he refers to himself in the third person: “Nash's issues have no relevance to this debate. An arsonist can still tell you if a building is on fire or not.”


Nash currently still owes REA exactly $293,102.55 on his judgment in fraud to REA.


I look forward to collecting the balance of this fraud judgment in full (and I guarantee we will, though it may take a while) and I look forward to further helping Robert and Lisa Fraser collect their $442,511 (plus interest) fraud judgment against Peter Nash in full also. And if I can be helpful to the IRS, the State of New York (they seem to be doing pretty well on their own: http://www.albanycountyda.com/Media/News/14-07-01/Former_Rapper_Pleads_Guilty_to_Tax_Fraud.aspx), or any other victims, I will certainly try to help them as well.

Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

President

Robert Edward Auctions LLC

www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

[hcv123]

Important clarification in case this is missed: What makes this thread so interesting in my opinion............. is – I personally have no doubt - none other than Peter Nash himself...................

To me, this is extremely amusing. Especially this line where he refers to himself in the third person: “Nash's issues have no relevance to this debate. An arsonist can still tell you if a building is on fire or not.”




Sincerely,

Robert Lifson

President

Robert Edward Auctions LLC

www.RobertEdwardAuctions.com

Hi Rob,

I get the "bad blood" between you guys - I can imagine the past has been INTENSE. At the end of the day each of you are the most important ones who know and live with your own truth. Seems like a stretch without offering some more tangible proof stating that the poster is Nash. That said, I would be shocked if anyone on these boards is not familiar with the long legal battle between you and the large number of questions that have been raised around the origin and chain of ownership of a number of items as well as questions of integrity on both sides. If you stand firmly on the side of truth, I encourage you to simply direct people to the threads here where allegations have been addressed. Further, if you want to publicize your truth, just start a forum and do it. Lastly, if and when the posters identity is uncovered - if it turns out to be Nash I am sure the net 54 community will be first to "cry foul" and consider it when assessing our own confidence in his integrity.

-Howard Chasser

[Leon]

Hi Rob,

I get the "bad blood" between you guys - I can imagine the past has been INTENSE. At the end of the day each of you are the most important ones who know and live with your own truth. Seems like a stretch without offering some more tangible proof stating that the poster is Nash. That said, I would be shocked if anyone on these boards is not familiar with the long legal battle between you and the large number of questions that have been raised around the origin and chain of ownership of a number of items as well as questions of integrity on both sides. If you stand firmly on the side of truth, I encourage you to simply direct people to the threads here where allegations have been addressed. Further, if you want to publicize your truth, just start a forum and do it. Lastly, if and when the posters identity is uncovered - if it turns out to be Nash I am sure the net 54 community will be first to "cry foul" and consider it when assessing our own confidence in his integrity.

-Howard Chasser

Hi Howard
As someone who is also often ridiculed by Nash, for no reason ever while in the hobby...except his exaggerated lies, I would like to say a few things. First of all REA is an advertiser here and Rob L is a hobby friend. That doesn't change what I am about to say though. You continually claim you have your doubts about the fake poster being Nash, I couldn't disagree with you more. In my mind it is a 99% probability it is Nash. Could I be wrong, maybe....but I absolutely don't think so. My sources tell me that Nash reads this board a lot too. There is almost no doubt in my mind that Nash has been on the board and kicked off on more than one occasion, due to fake registration information. My guess is that he is on the board now as an impostor. For the record, if Peter Nash wants to come on this board and post, as himself, he is more than welcome to. No editing, no censorship, nothing....except to remain civil. This is an open invitation for Peter to come on the board but only as himself. If he is always telling the truth and a good guy then this should be freaking great. An open invitation to join in our discussions.

Secondly, telling REA to start of forum is idiocy. They run an auction. This is a mature sports card and memorabilia hobby forum, is quite large in nature, very open and is made for exactly this kind of discussion. You have been on this board long enough and should really already know that, imo. Thanks for your time.....LL

[David Atkatz]

I highly doubt that he was responsible for the theft of the wills etc.
They were offered by dealers at flea markets, antiques store and at auctions (under the table, in the parking lots) in NE PA, North Jersey, Conn and Mass during the 70’s,80’s and 90’s
They then made it into the hands of Halper and other high end collectors.And you know this... how?

[pbspelly]

Important clarification in case this is missed: What makes this thread so interesting in my opinion, and what I think might be lost on most readers (in the absence of this post), is that the very person who has fraudulently signed up on Net54 with a fake name and contact info with the user ID “thebigtrain” (a name obviously chosen to create confusion with longtime poster “bigtrain”) is – I personally have no doubt - none other than Peter Nash himself.




Only if the weasel goes pop

[murphusa]

And you know this... how?

I went to a lot of flea markets etc during the time and saw them being offered. I was not an autograph person so I wasn't a buyer but they were around.

also to note

In late 1990's a high end collector contacted me in reference to a will of a Hall of Famer that he was being offered. He knew that my father was in law enforcement and ask if he would look into it be stolen or not. My father checked with the county clerks office that was listed on the will and was told that the will was safe and sound.

A few years latter the collector placed the will in an auction and by chance the lady who my father had spoken too saw an article in the news paper about the auction and saw that the will she was asked about was listed. She went to check on the will and found it missing from the county files. She went back through her call log, found my fathers name and contacted the FBI with the information.

The will was retrieved from the auction and returned to the County.

[hcv123]

Hi Howard
As someone who is also often ridiculed by Nash, for no reason ever while in the hobby...except his exaggerated lies, I would like to say a few things. First of all REA is an advertiser here and Rob L is a hobby friend. That doesn't change what I am about to say though. You continually claim you have your doubts about the fake poster being Nash, I couldn't disagree with you more. In my mind it is a 99% probability it is Nash. Could I be wrong, maybe....but I absolutely don't think so. My sources tell me that Nash reads this board a lot too. There is almost no doubt in my mind that Nash has been on the board and kicked off on more than one occasion, due to fake registration information. My guess is that he is on the board now as an impostor. For the record, if Peter Nash wants to come on this board and post, as himself, he is more than welcome to. No editing, no censorship, nothing....except to remain civil. This is an open invitation for Peter to come on the board but only as himself. If he is always telling the truth and a good guy then this should be freaking great. An open invitation to join in our discussions.

Secondly, telling REA to start of forum is idiocy. They run an auction. This is a mature sports card and memorabilia hobby forum, is quite large in nature, very open and is made for exactly this kind of discussion. You have been on this board long enough and should really already know that, imo. Thanks for your time.....LL

Hi Leon,

I consider myself an objective 3rd party here. I have no loyalty to anyone involved. I have done business with REA as buyer and seller and am satisfied with my experience as both. I have never met nor have any relationship with Nash - have found some of what he has published valuable, disturbing and a darker side of my hobby that I appreciate being aware of. I also read what is his with caution because I have seen the frequent mixing of exaggeration with facts. I don't know you either - have great respect and appreciation for your creation and moderation of this board - a truly incredible hobby resource.
A point of information - I have not "continually" claimed I have my doubts about the fake poster being Nash - I stated I have not seen or heard anything in this or other threads that leads me so quickly to that conclusion. Could it be - ABSOLUTELY. When there is some amount of evidence other than opinion I will be at the front of the list of people suggesting Nash to "man up" and post as himself or keep his mouth shut. I also wouldn't be "shocked" if it were him nor that he is on here.
What I highlighted in my previous post is what I understand to be the facts - there was a post made with some accusations by someone who used a bogus registration (to me if it was Nash or not is almost irrelevant). The response that Rob made 1) didn't address the accusation(s) at all, 2) responded with an assumption and commentary on who made the post that sidesteps the accusation(s). I would appreciate hearing facts relevant to the accusation - not facts to discredit the possible accuser. REA IS an auction house. Rob Lifson is a PERSON who posted who happens to own the REA auction house - I believe he is as entitled as anyone else according to the rules of this forum to raise questions, state facts, complain about his experience with Nash or anyone else for that matter, etc. as long as he keeps it civil - why the suggestion of that seems like "idiocy" to you is a bit puzzling to me.....but you too are entitled to your opinion.

Thank you for this board and the opportunity to have this and many other dialogues and posts that I have been a part of, learned from, and shared in.


Also want to add that while in my opinion there are huge and serious lies and unanswered questions about Halper and what has been disclosed about him by Nash, I agree it is a large jump to claim he commissioned
or orchestrated thefts of memorabilia.

[Leon]

Hi Leon,

I consider myself an objective 3rd party here. I have no loyalty to anyone involved. I have done business with REA as buyer and seller and am satisfied with my experience as both. I have never met nor have any relationship with Nash - have found some of what he has published valuable, disturbing and a darker side of my hobby that I appreciate being aware of. I also read what is his with caution because I have seen the frequent mixing of exaggeration with facts. I don't know you either - have great respect and appreciation for your creation and moderation of this board - a truly incredible hobby resource.
A point of information - I have not "continually" claimed I have my doubts about the fake poster being Nash - I stated I have not seen or heard anything in this or other threads that leads me so quickly to that conclusion. Could it be - ABSOLUTELY. When there is some amount of evidence other than opinion I will be at the front of the list of people suggesting Nash to "man up" and post as himself or keep his mouth shut. I also wouldn't be "shocked" if it were him nor that he is on here.
What I highlighted in my previous post is what I understand to be the facts - there was a post made with some accusations by someone who used a bogus registration (to me if it was Nash or not is almost irrelevant). The response that Rob made 1) didn't address the accusation(s) at all, 2) responded with an assumption and commentary on who made the post that sidesteps the accusation(s). I would appreciate hearing facts relevant to the accusation - not facts to discredit the possible accuser. REA IS an auction house. Rob Lifson is a PERSON who posted who happens to own the REA auction house - I believe he is as entitled as anyone else according to the rules of this forum to raise questions, state facts, complain about his experience with Nash or anyone else for that matter, etc. as long as he keeps it civil - why the suggestion of that seems like "idiocy" to you is a bit puzzling to me.....but you too are entitled to your opinion.

Thank you for this board and the opportunity to have this and many other dialogues and posts that I have been a part of, learned from, and shared in.

Nice response Howard. As you know from being on the board it is truly an open venue. I have information that 100% puts Nash on this board, more than once, as an impostor. I have kicked off at least a few aliases, almost assuredly him, in the last few days.

And yes, I will still stick to my comment of idiocy when it comes to having REA start their own forum (which of course they or anyone can do). But to me, it would be like saying your new car is a lemon, and you are complaining, so you should build one yourself. There is no reason to re-invent the wheel in most cases. I respect and appreciate your response though. It is the best way to debate things (civilly and politely). Also, there is no doubt there is some truth in what Nash says. It is intertwined with his vast imagination though. It is a shame he hides behind aliases while doing it. Thanks again and As I told someone yesterday, I can't imagine living like that.....but to each their own....LL

[bigtrain]

I don't think I slandered anyone in my above posts but I am
very excited that they have made me famous. Peter Nash has
mentioned me on his website and posted a very flattering picture
of me that was taken in 1997 when I had black hair. Thanks Pete.