AH's at 20%

[Edwolf1963]

Curious if any of you have drawn the line on bidding or consigning with AH's that are at 20% (or more) BP? I realize it may be quibbling over relatively small amounts when you're talking about that vs. 19%, 18.5%, etc. - guess it's just the thought/principle. I take more issue with getting rung up @ 20% or close to it - then tacking on some ridiculous s&h fee on top of. Legendary is the most egregious here IMO. Just hate that feeling of being fleeced at every opportunity.

Any AH's you have crossed off bcse of this, or just factor it into your bidding?

[t206hound]

The BP % doesn't matter to me as a bidder... My max is based on the final price with the juice.

[Peter_Spaeth]

The BP % doesn't matter to me as a bidder... My max is based on the final price with the juice.

I don't understand why so many people fail to grasp this simple fact.

[tschock]

Just curious, as I don't track them. But do sites such as VCP track card sales for the sale price of the card or total cost (including the BP)?

[t206hound]

Just curious, as I don't track them. But do sites such as VCP track card sales for the sale price of the card or total cost (including the BP)?


Cardtarget does include BP. Note that eBay shipping is NOT included on cardtarget.

[BobbyVCP]

VCP includes the hammer.

[chipperhank44]

I don't understand why so many people fail to grasp this simple fact.


The Golden Rule:

If Hammer Price + BP < My Budget, I'm bidding.

[sycks22]

The BP % doesn't matter to me as a bidder... My max is based on the final price with the juice.

I agree. I don't think many people bid in auctions and forgot that their bids will include juice at the end.

[bn2cardz]

As a bidder it won't matter much because I factor it in (I like it better when the AH shows how much it will affect the final price when you place a bid instead of having to figure it out myself).

As a seller I think I would stay away from high BP auction houses. Because the bidders are factoring that in. So they may bid $1000 on an item that I could have sold for $1100 by myself because they know they will still have to pay $1200. The AH then even gets to advertise that the item sold for $1200 and they get "higher prices realized", but the cosigner only saw $1000 of that and that is before any type of cosigner fee (if there are some).

[Leon]

As a bidder it won't matter much because I factor it in (I like it better when the AH shows how much it will affect the final price when you place a bid instead of having to figure it out myself).

As a seller I think I would stay away from high BP auction houses. Because the bidders are factoring that in. So they may bid $1000 on an item that I could have sold for $1100 by myself because they know they will still have to pay $1200. The AH then even gets to advertise that the item sold for $1200 and they get "higher prices realized", but the cosigner only saw $1000 of that and that is before any type of cosigner fee (if there are some).

The AH % has to come from somewhere.....Every person I know factors it in...

[bcbgcbrcb]

As usual, material trumps everything else. If I want something, I don't let personal feelings about a particular auction house prevent me from bidding/buying. Many collectors might not admit it publicly but would do the same........

[bn2cardz]

As a bidder it won't matter much because I factor it in (I like it better when the AH shows how much it will affect the final price when you place a bid instead of having to figure it out myself).

As a seller I think I would stay away from high BP auction houses. Because the bidders are factoring that in. So they may bid $1000 on an item that I could have sold for $1100 by myself because they know they will still have to pay $1200. The AH then even gets to advertise that the item sold for $1200 and they get "higher prices realized", but the cosigner only saw $1000 of that and that is before any type of cosigner fee (if there are some).

The AH % has to come from somewhere.....Every person I know factors it in...

I don't understand quoting me there.

I understand the AH has to get paid, I didn't say anything against that. I also said it needs to be factored in.

Up until my comment though, people were only talking about the BP affecting them as a buyer. I was pointing out that as a seller you should factor in the BP more than as a buyer when dealing with an AH. The seller is the one getting less for their material. Whereas the buyer is paying the same amount and they don't care who is getting what percentage of that money.

[packs]

Wait, I've never consigned to an AH before, but there are houses that also charge a consignor fee on top of a buyer fee? I thought the buyer fee was the takeaway for them?

So there are houses that charge the buyer for buying and the seller for selling?

[t206hound]

Wait, I've never consigned to an AH before, but there are houses that also charge a consignor fee on top of a buyer fee? I thought the buyer fee was the takeaway for them?

So there are houses that charge the buyer for buying and the seller for selling?

absolutely... AH take will generally be 15-25%. Sometimes it's all from the buyer, sometimes there's some from both the buyer and consignor.

[packs]

I knew about the buyer fee, but a selling fee on top of a buyer fee seems absurd. From a seller perspective the house is already taking their cut with the buyer's fee. Why would I be held to a fee for generating the house money?

I realize the house is making me money, but that is the trade off. You get yours, I get mine. Now you want yours and mine too? No way.

[glchen]

I knew about the buyer fee, but a selling fee on top of a buyer fee seems absurd. From a seller perspective the house is already taking their cut with the buyer's fee. Why would I be held to a fee for generating the house money?

I realize the house is making me money, but that is the trade off. You get yours, I get mine. Now you want yours and mine too? No way.

It does seem obscene, I agree. When I was originally shopping for an auction house to sell some of my stuff, I was amazed how many auction houses had something like a 20% sellers fee on top of the 20% buyers premium. That's a huge take. However, there are a number of auction houses that offer 0% seller's commission or even better. I think Goodwin and B-L have standard 0% seller's commission, and there are some other AH's that also have 0. Some others like Mile High and Greg Bussineau, I believe, offer 0% seller's commission and even give you some of the BP back if your lots sell for a certain value. I've never used them before, so I can't vouch for them. The AH's that charge seller's commission typically say that they have more advertising or a better client list so that they think they can sell your stuff for a higher price than the ones that have lower commission. It's up to you to do your homework and make your best judgment there.

[darwinbulldog]

I have cards up in two of the auctions this month. These are the first two cards I've ever consigned. In each case my cut will be 95% of hammer, and the BP is 20%. If we ignore shipping charges then, I'll be getting, for example, $950 out of $1200 paid by the buyer, which works out to just over 79%. So was that a good choice for me? Honestly I don't know yet, but it seemed likely enough that I was willing to take the chance. There was one auction house (not running an auction this month) that never returned my emails or calls, so they missed out on my business.

When I go the eBay route, once you factor in the Paypal cut I'm left with about 90% of the hammer price, (there's also the time and effort and expense of shipping, but that's the same whether I'm mailing to a buyer or an AH) so from one perspective I'm costing myself 11% of the total value of the cards, which seems like a bad idea, but I think there's a decent chance that the 15 minute rule could yield a significantly higher sale price for at least one of my cards than the usual eBay set-your-snipes-and-check-back-on-Sunday-night model would. I also saved on grading because one of my cards was raw (until a month ago) and got in as part of a bulk submission from the auction house. And then of course...

Not having to deal with eBay: Priceless

[Exhibitman]

Most AH's will negotiate a 0% commission to the seller, especially for slabbed cards. The BP is where they make their money. eBay's rake when paypal is factored in is about 13% for the casual seller, and that includes a final value fee and paypal fee on shipping costs. So, if I have a $100 slabbed card to sell I can either pay $13 to eBay and co., with the 'pleasure' of dealing with the general public and fulfilling the sale myself, or I can consign it to an AH and take a 15% to 20% hit but have no further dealings with the item after I send it in. To me, the extra few bucks aren't worth the headaches of DIY selling, not to mention that a single bad eBayer under their seller-killing rules can more than make up for any savings.

As for 20% or more BP, for that level of BP the seller should be doing an actual catalog. There are a number of sub-20% BP AH's that are internet only.

What really chaps my hide is what I saw on MEARS:

"There is a 22.5% Buyer's Premium for payment with credit card and PayPal. If you pay by cashiers check, money order, wire transfer or check within 10 days of receipt of invoice a 2.5% discount can be applied to net a buyers premium of 20%. Payments AFTER 10 days by these methods cannot apply the 2.5% discount."

They call it a discount because the credit card processing contracts I've reviewed all forbid vendors from charging a premium for use of the card [it discourages card use], but really it is a penalty to discourage electronic payments via those methods. I don't have any other trade relationships where a net 10 payment discount depends on the payment method; the merchants want their payments quickly and will offer net 10 terms regardless of payment methods to try and get it.

[Leon]

I don't understand quoting me there.



I was agreeing with you..

[Leon]

Most AH's will negotiate a 0% commission to the seller, especially for slabbed cards. The BP is where they make their money. eBay's rake when paypal is factored in is about 13% for the casual seller, and that includes a final value fee and paypal fee on shipping costs. So, if I have a $100 slabbed card to sell I can either pay $13 to eBay and co., with the 'pleasure' of dealing with the general public and fulfilling the sale myself, or I can consign it to an AH and take a 15% to 20% hit but have no further dealings with the item after I send it in. To me, the extra few bucks aren't worth the headaches of DIY selling, not to mention that a single bad eBayer under their seller-killing rules can more than make up for any savings.

As for 20% or more BP, for that level of BP the seller should be doing an actual catalog. There are a number of sub-20% BP AH's that are internet only.

What really chaps my hide is what I saw on MEARS:

"There is a 22.5% Buyer's Premium for payment with credit card and PayPal. If you pay by cashiers check, money order, wire transfer or check within 10 days of receipt of invoice a 2.5% discount can be applied to net a buyers premium of 20%. Payments AFTER 10 days by these methods cannot apply the 2.5% discount."

They call it a discount because the credit card processing contracts I've reviewed all forbid vendors from charging a premium for use of the card [it discourages card use], but really it is a penalty to discourage electronic payments via those methods. I don't have any other trade relationships where a net 10 payment discount depends on the payment method; the merchants want their payments quickly and will offer net 10 terms regardless of payment methods to try and get it.

I think That law got overturned (at least in Texas if not the whole US) some time ago....

http://www.merchantcouncil.org/merchant-account/operation/pass-fee-customer.php

[chipperhank44]

What really chaps my hide is what I saw on MEARS:

"There is a 22.5% Buyer's Premium for payment with credit card and PayPal. If you pay by cashiers check, money order, wire transfer or check within 10 days of receipt of invoice a 2.5% discount can be applied to net a buyers premium of 20%. Payments AFTER 10 days by these methods cannot apply the 2.5% discount."


My personal favorite was when I saw an auction house's terms and conditions say "No Returns are accepted, all items sold As Is" and then also say "By bidding you agree not to issue a credit or debit card chargeback". I couldn't wait to bid!

[bn2cardz]

I was agreeing with you..

Oh ok. I really could take your message either way.

[ChiSoxFan]

Like most everyone else, the BP % doesn't matter to me as I take that into consideration when placing my bids. Here is the formula I use, if that helps any.

MaxBid = (MyPrice - SH) / (1 + BP%)

MaxBid is my maximum bid amount
MyPrice is the amount I plan on spending for the card (including any additional fees)
SH is the Shipping and Handling charges (if known)
BP% is the Buyers Premium Percent (as a decimal)

As an example, there is a card in a current auction I'm wanting, but I have limited myself to $1000 for this card. This fictitious auction house has an 18.5% buyers premium and a $5.00 flat rate for shipping. Now I apply these numbers to my formula:

($1000 - $5) / (1 + 0.185)
($995) / (1.185) = $839.66

So if the current bid is less than $840, then I will be placing a bid.

Hope this helps.


ChiSoxFan

[clydepepper]

Man! I'm not as knowledgeable about the business side of bidding as I thought. You guys are seem prepared for everything!

What a headache!


I'm glad I keep it simple.

While I do admit to buying emotionally, I try to work within my budget.


No headache, but a little less money.

[Luke]

I like the equation, James! Good to know I'm not the only math nerd on here. Unfortunately I'm also lazy. I won something from an AH last night where I had just done a quick approximation in my head, and was surprised/annoyed when the actual number was $15 more than my guess. Probably not annoyed enough to actually do the math next time though :D

[ValKehl]

Math was my best subject in school, so I know how to do the exact calculation. But, I am also a lazy butt, so I just do an approximation in my head. But, I tend to wonder if other bidders remember the BP when the bid price of a card that I am interested in significantly exceeds what I think makes sense!
Val

[tschock]

I almost never forget to factor in the BP, but I have forgotten to factor in the sales tax before on a couple of local auctions. :o