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Jantz
09-23-2014, 11:34 AM
Some members expressed interest in seeing the printer's scrap recently listed on Ebay. Not sure who won the auction, but they got a nice gem for the price.

The green overlay is from George Hunter's card.


Jantz

t206hound
09-23-2014, 11:40 AM
All I can say is wow! Where was I when that one dropped.

Jantz
09-23-2014, 11:50 AM
All I can say is wow! Where was I when that one dropped.

+1

I felt the same way when I got the call from Johnny. :eek:



Jantz

jp1216
09-23-2014, 12:02 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191314848019

Way overpriced :eek: Great pickup to the new owner! Any other history between Marshall and Hunter? First sighting of them together?

ullmandds
09-23-2014, 12:03 PM
Went for appropriate price IMO!

t206hound
09-23-2014, 12:16 PM
http://www.ebay.com/itm/191314848019

Way overpriced :eek: Great pickup to the new owner! Any other history between Marshall and Hunter? First sighting of them together?

that's a tough call, Jon, on whether they are "together." It could have been a scrap sheet that was fed through for a green test run.

I don't think I'd make the assertion that that they are necessarily neighbors or even from the same sheet. I might be more easily convinced that they were the same cards "positionally" on separate sheets. Still thinking about it...

Jantz
09-23-2014, 12:19 PM
Jon

At the moment, the only other thing I have is a scan Johnny sent me of another Marshall scrap which has the same back.

T206.org
09-23-2014, 12:20 PM
Nice, Jantz - thanks for posting!

jp1216
09-23-2014, 12:37 PM
I might be more easily convinced that they were the same cards "positionally" on separate sheets.

That makes the most sense. Card from another sheet in the same or similar position.

t206hound
09-23-2014, 12:55 PM
That makes the most sense. Card from another sheet in the same or similar position.

It's too bad there's not some additional green since the cards offset... then we might have some more adjacency information.

peterose4hof
09-23-2014, 01:41 PM
There's a slight wave near the top right corner. Trimmed maybe?

t206hound
09-23-2014, 01:49 PM
There's a slight wave near the top right corner. Trimmed maybe?

it's scrap... handcut...

mrvster
09-23-2014, 01:58 PM
:)

this is a great post! JANTZ IS THE MAN!

I almost cried at this one......wait....I think I did??:confused::)

I own the other Marshall scrap you posted:D


This card is a beauty! that hunter green overlay:eek::)

was found almost as soon as it was listed....a fellow board member asked me for my opinion.....I TOLD HIM TO HIT BUY! as he was about to, another person bought it!!!!! it was only on the bay for a few ....


my heart got torn out!:mad: I felt bad for the other board member who tipped me off and just missed it...


beautiful scrap....WHO EVER OWNS IT PLEASE POST:)


again, Erick you are THE DAWG!



and like Chris and Tim and a few others who can decipher these cards in minutes like a rubiks cube;)

bn2cardz
09-23-2014, 02:00 PM
There's a slight wave near the top right corner. Trimmed maybe?

it's scrap... handcut...


I could be wrong but I believed that had to be sarcasm, the hint being the word "slight".

mrvster
09-23-2014, 02:05 PM
or would love to get it for my friend:)


GREAT POST Jantz...Call ME

BleedinBlue
09-23-2014, 02:39 PM
I hope the card is in hand. Otherwise the buyer may be at risk of another board member swooping in, contacting the seller and buying the card off eBay while the seller fails to honor the transaction.

It happened with the Seymour Lenox card already this year.

bn2cardz
09-23-2014, 03:24 PM
I hope the card is in hand. Otherwise the buyer may be at risk of another board member swooping in, contacting the seller and buying the card off eBay while the seller fails to honor the transaction.

It happened with the Seymour Lenox card already this year.

It was bought on the 4th of September so I don't think there is any reason why the seller would still have the card

mrvster
09-23-2014, 08:46 PM
shipped it right away.....:mad:

jlehma13
09-23-2014, 09:34 PM
Excuse my ignorance, however what is the giveaway that this is indeed a printer's scrap? Does it measure wider than a regular T206 even with the 'hand cut'?

Runscott
09-23-2014, 09:48 PM
Definition: 'T206 Printer Scrap' 1: Any card that when 'new' was messed up enough that it should never have been put in a pack of cigarettes; 2: Any piece of cardboard that gives Johnny wood.

Matvoo
09-23-2014, 10:00 PM
Sorry for my stupidity but one day I want a printer scrap how much do one normally cost of a common?

Thanks

t206hound
09-23-2014, 10:08 PM
Sorry for my stupidity but one day I want a printer scrap how much do one normally cost of a common?

Thanks

50x and up I would say...

mrvster
09-23-2014, 10:36 PM
exactly;) :D

Matvoo
09-23-2014, 11:11 PM
Thanks erick

vtgmsc
09-23-2014, 11:33 PM
What I also find mind boggling is that the seller has almost 6000 positive feedbacks in the past 30 days!?!?!?!?:eek:

I find it tough to ship 30 items in a week let alone 200 in a DAY?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?

7 days a week, 30 days a month, 200 per day?!?!?!?!?

That is cool.

peace, mike

mrvster
09-24-2014, 12:25 AM
scraps are super :cool: and super rare...

every now and then a gem like this will be hidden ..... good luck on your hunt;)

The Nasty Nati
09-24-2014, 11:31 AM
Excuse my ignorance, however what is the giveaway that this is indeed a printer's scrap? Does it measure wider than a regular T206 even with the 'hand cut'?

I would also like to know what makes this T206 card a printer's scrap. To me it almost looks like a diamond cut T206 card that has been poorly taken care of through the years.

Is the green overlay printing the giveaway?

mrvster
09-24-2014, 03:48 PM
T206 scrap are very rare, but can be spotted a mile away(the obvious ones like this)......I am obsessed with them and can pick them out of a line up of 1000's (maybe literally millions)of T206....my eye has become "trained" to spot them after 15 + years of hunting......


T206 printer's scrap.....

little "clues" to the T206 lithographic printing process( a very intricate and artful style of printing using multiple layers)...:cool:
scrap have many distinguishing characteristics.....and have become century old "chase" cards if you will.... they are not even T206 technically.....they are "alternative" T206 if you will....a T206 "by product" of the litho process.......they are unique one-- of- a- kinds created by accidently by the printer.....a pearl in an oyster;)......unique "snow flakes" accidentally created by the printers of these cards...I LOVE bottom "dipping" border like on the right bottom side.....not a dead give away, but a nice scrap characteristic commonly found on these.....




Printer's scraps were "scrap" sheets used by the printers at ATC to set the presses up....in 1909-1911 .....they were sheets that had mistakes on them already(wrong color, no advertisement, off registration, mis- aligned, misfed, miscut, double struck, wrong ink, ect,ect) instead of wasting perfectly good sheets to reduce costs......so when the printer screwed up a sheet, they tossed them aside in a "scrap" pile......these "garbage" sheets set aside were then used as "scrap" cardboard to set up the presses for printing other T206 or other issues printed in the ATC building in New York during this time frame(1909-1911)....


printer fills the ink wells, or adjusts the stones, or feeds cardboard in to test for correct adjustments.....printer grabs a "garbage" sheet to see if the registration is correct or enough ink is in the wells or whatever.....

he sends the "garbage" sheet through the press to see if everything looks good before printing on fresh cardboard....(this is where the magic happens;))....the printer uses the sheet once, tosses back in the pile....that particular sheet may have had 1 additional strike on it(creating a ghost image, double ad, ect)...

some garbage sheets were used multiple times , hence , creating "multiple" strikes of either the player, the ad, or both....the possibilities are simply endless!! after the sheets were used for this purpose, they were thrown away....either people recovered them from the trash, or the printers may have taken them home for there kids to play with ect.....the cards were then hand cut by whoever and there your scrap is born.....


each sheet becomes unique and has sister cards on them....these little puzzle pieces can be put back together sometimes to "re create" parts of original sheets....usually, the "weirder" more dramatic" ones get the most attention and big big bux.....but don't kid yourselves, this Marshall is no small card....







let's dissect a fairly easy scrap like this is to determine-

first clue-


1)SUPER FAT ASS BORDER(left front)

....unusual fatness in left front border..sick fatness...because when most of these scraps were cut from the scrap sheet, the person cutting them usually didn't take great care in sizing them up(altho some scrap are trimmed ultra neat, prob even re- trimmed at another date)....but if you look very very close above his beltline, that section left to right should far over measure the standard dimension of 1 7/16" ....id say at least a 1/16-1/8 inch wide by my eye from the scan.....altho some T206 were factory cut oversize, this definitely is NOT the case with this card.....

2)UNUSUAL HAND CUT (all around card)

....if this card measured oversize all around, then that would be a dead give away that it wasn't a factory cut card, or even trimmed from the factory....this card may measure short in the other dimensions, but has the "scrap" hand cut of "erratic" borders.....excellent....


3) Skewed Back Ad

extremely common on scrap(especially the pied 350's)....check out the "tilt" of the back Ad, in retro to the obverse:D

4) DEAD GIVE AWAY....THE 100 % determining factor that this card is an 100% authentic scrap- GREEN OVERPRINT BACK GROUND OF HUNTER ON FRONT-

the crème da la crème....this is no wst boys....the real deal there.....printer was setting up various colors in the print run....that green cut out of hunter is the icing on the cake...


thanks to our resident experts who figure this stuff out in minutes!!!(Jantz, Erick, Chris, Tim and the rest of you I call on and you know who you are;)).....



Damn I want this card:D

h2oya311
09-24-2014, 04:27 PM
I personally think scrap is crap, but your enthusiasm for (s)crap is absolutely infectious! After reading your post, I almost want one for my own collection.

Exhibitman
09-24-2014, 04:44 PM
I love sellers with no idea of what they are selling...

t206hound
09-24-2014, 04:54 PM
I love sellers with no idea of what they are selling...

At $16.25 delivered, they buyer may have had no idea what he was buying...

mrvster
09-24-2014, 05:11 PM
and the rest...


thanks....

years ago....these scraps were actually perceived to be "crap" or "garbage"...

ironically, that's what they actually were over a hundred years ago literally...

I remember 10 or 12 years ago where you might get a blank back in the $300.00 range.....collectors had no idea!

12 years ago,you could pick up a sweet cap fact 30 no overprint yellow/brown scrap in the $200.00 .. range...

collectors hadn't even really realized how rare these damn things are! and pretty cool :cool:

Jantz
09-24-2014, 11:52 PM
At $16.25 delivered, they buyer may have had no idea what he was buying...

The buyer is fully aware of what the card is.


Jantz

Shoebox
09-25-2014, 06:06 PM
I personally think scrap is crap, but your enthusiasm for (s)crap is absolutely infectious! After reading your post, I almost want one for my own collection.

+1 We all love what we love but the enthusiasm that exists for defective printing press doodles escapes me.

mrvster
09-25-2014, 09:19 PM
you would have to own/ hold one to understand..... it is a piece of printing history of one of the most ever iconic sets ever produced.... a puzzle piece to decipher a mysterious set still unlocking mysteries for over a hundred years...

new discoveries about the set pop up like this occasionally....the rarity alone is amazing, forget about the uniqueness...

These "doodles" are the farthest thing from that.....they are print set up sheets .....the set up allows us to peer into the litho process that some of our resident experts here have been researching for decades....

like finding fossils if you will...

might be beyond your scope:D

Tao_Moko
09-25-2014, 09:40 PM
you would have to own/ hold one to understand..... it is a piece of printing history of one of the most ever iconic sets ever produced.... a puzzle piece to decipher a mysterious set still unlocking mysteries for over a hundred years...

new discoveries about the set pop up like this occasionally....the rarity alone is amazing, forget about the uniqueness...

These "doodles" are the farthest thing from that.....they are print set up sheets .....the set up allows us to peer into the litho process that some of our resident experts here have been researching for decades....

like finding fossils if you will...

might be beyond your scope:D

Depends on what you're measuring these against. I collect fossils and in comparison, this is not in the same universe. Easy to overlook the fact that the early 20th century wasn't really that long ago. These cards are cool and somewhat informative, but not awe-inspiring. Zero relevance in comparison to fossils.

mrvster
09-26-2014, 12:09 AM
not literally comparing the two....millions of year old fossils and 100 year old cardboard are of course on the different spectrum....it was a simple analogy ...

the point...

a fossil is a small puzzle piece of the whole( plant/insect/entire dinosaur)

a T206 scrap is a small piece of the whole(the print sheet)...

:)


just saying that printer's scrap has been traditionally mis understood over the years and their significance to the understanding of the print process...


some collectors just haven't grasped it yet, nor care, but ignorance is bliss:)

packs
09-26-2014, 09:33 AM
You have some marketing prowess but I'd be hard pressed to pay more than the auction price.

However, everyone outside of this board would think I'm crazy for spending money on any card so to each their own.

mrvster
09-26-2014, 10:21 PM
the perception for years!:)

until chase began:D

these are the future of T206.....when you complete the set(minus the biggies)....this will be the natural course:D

Exhibitman
09-27-2014, 07:45 AM
Your loss, then, Packs, as there is a large enough contingent of collectors who are into print freaks to make it very profitable to buy and flip them. I guarantee that $16.25 could be increased tenfold or more overnight.

Oh, and I gotta show off my favorite scrap, a T220 with two HOFers on it:

http://photos.imageevent.com/exhibitman/freaksandgeeks/websize/T220%20ungraded%20Coburn%20printer%20freak.jpg

mrvster
09-27-2014, 08:06 AM
1000000% Agree with you my friend!:)

btw....love the boxing SCRAP! you have the "eye"

Shoebox
09-27-2014, 02:18 PM
might be beyond your scope:D

I would say outside my scope rather than beyond. I understand the reasons other collectors feel the way they do about these items but don't share the sentiment. I dont expect anyone to change their collecting preferences, veiws, interests based on what appeals to me anymore than I would alter mine based on what appeals to you. To each their own.