1975 Topps - how to tell if they're resealed?

[polakoff]

Hi all,

I have the opportunity to purchase a 1975 Topps unopened box (36 packs) as well as 20 additional packs. The seller also has ~1000 cards that appear pack fresh (with stars), and 2 empty boxes and empty wrappers, so I have no reason to doubt that the packs aren't authentic and sealed. But, I am always weary, especially with items that aren't in my usual wheelhouse. So - how can I tell if these packs have been searched and resealed? I've seen horror stories and videos of even AUTHENTICATED items having been resealed - so I want to be real careful here.

Thanks in advance.

[savedfrommyspokes]

I am a collector of "opened" product and am personally not comfortable buying unopened products such as what you have mentioned.

The main reason I feel uncomfortable with unopened material from this age is because of the horror stories you mention and the fact that items such as empty boxes, used wrappers, and larger groupings of NM cards are all readily available. Sellers such as NESC typically offer bulk groups of NM appearing cards, from 75 and other 70's issues also. There are multiple listings for empty 75 Topps wax boxes currently listed on ebay. And here is a recent listing that offered a large group of 75 Topps wax wrappers:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1975-Topps-Baseball-Wax-Pack-Empty-Wrapper-Lot-of-34-/331287611945?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item4d2247ca29

Combine these readily available items together in certain ways, and you have what appears to be some "unopened" or recently opened product.


You are right to ask the questions you have, so you would do best to further research on how to determine if wax packs have been resealed, apply common sense and the knowledge you have gained to what you have seen, and take time to think this purchase decision through.

[MikeGarcia]

..will there be a money-back guarantee if you are later told by an authority that they're bad ? ( Or if you open one immediately and find used cards inside )
..seller's reputation must be perfect or non-existant ; hopefully this is an attic find..; please don't say '' Craig's List''..

...are you planning to open them all looking for Gem Mint 10's or do you collect packs and boxes and wrappers ?

... This is a fascinating situation ; please keep us informed ; good luck with all this..

[steve B]

The most common method of resealing back in the day was ironing the pack back together. Of course that's pretty easy to detect, the packs originally had just the two big flaps sealed to each other and the iron usually stuck all the flaps together.

Fakers have become a lot more sophisticated, but if the flaps seem original that's a first good sign.

I don't know if searching packs for 10s would be worthwhile. All the 70's stuff had pretty bad centering most of the time. But----If that's what you're after, sloppily resealed packs that were probably done before grading might be an ok risk if they're cheap enough. Back then it was usually done looking for stars/rookies and there wouldn't be much attention paid to commons or minor stars that would grade well. Open, pull stars, add cards from another box, iron back down, sell as packs at the flea market. (I never did, but there were flea market guys who did for sure and even a few brick and mortar shops. )So likely no Brett, Yount, Rice, Lynn, maybe Carter, and also no Ryan, Jackson etc. But the stuff that would be low population commons will all be there. And from the sound of it the rest of the lot will be a good indicator of the likely centering.

Steve B

[polakoff]

Mike...it's a lead I got from someone local who I know. Not sure where they found the guy, but they aren't able to swing the money for the purchase.

Steve, thanks for the info about the flaps. I also know the roller mark should go one direction (long to long). I'm not really sure what I'd plan to do with them, to be honest - might be a flip, might open the 20 and sell the box, might open it all - really no idea.

Here (http://imgur.com/a/ofJR2) are some pictures from the seller...first 5 are the lot of 20 packs and 1000 singles and two boxes, #6 and 7 are of the complete box...

http://imgur.com/a/ofJR2 (same link as above)

[savedfrommyspokes]

You should ask for multiple images of the backs of the packs....interesting how this seller provided no images of any of the backs of the packs with the grouping of pictures he sent you.

[polakoff]

One of my concerns, also concerned that the packs in picture 7 are all different as far as where they line up. #2 is folded much lower down. Steve Hart mentioned this as potentially concerning as well.

[polakoff]

This is a picture of the backs that the seller sent me. The flaps have me a bit concerned...

http://i.imgur.com/2QmRTKY.jpg

[Redscarsd58]

personally I wouldn't purchase any packs if seller wasn't willing to have BBCE review them and advise on authenticity. Not sure they will authenticate packs because of the PSA conflict, but as a full box he may.

if the seller won't comply there is your answer...
and why the dark pick of the backs? if/when i sell an unopened, i make every attempt at transparency to minimize doubt, assuming not authenticated.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I don't like the corner folds on the packs. I would stay away.

[sbfinley]

personally I wouldn't purchase any packs if seller wasn't willing to have BBCE review them and advise on authenticity. Not sure they will authenticate packs because of the PSA conflict, but as a full box he may.

if the seller won't comply there is your answer...
and why the dark pick of the backs? if/when i sell an unopened, i make every attempt at transparency to minimize doubt, assuming not authenticated.

I think Steve charges 5% of the estimated value of an item for him to authenticate and wrap unopened material that doesn't go through PSA. On this it would be what? $150-$200 with shipping and insurance to do so. That price might be a hurdle with the seller. I'm not big into unopened so I can't tell you one way or another, but I suggest checking in a CU forums as this seems to be their obsession.

[steve B]

The corner folds seem ok, they were sometimes sloppy, and any decent resealer uses the folds the factory made.

The mismatch of the packs is concerning, but wax could be sequenced just like racks and cellos. Once you know the sequence the better cards will usually be in the same approximate place in a box. So someone might pick out say every pack from the top of the left stack, third one down in the second stack and last one in the right stack. All the leftovers would get added to other boxes.
Sometimes cards can be identified through the wrapper, and that's another way of picking through them.

What is more concerning to me is the wrinkling on the lower left pack in the back photo. The factory wrap while sloppy is usually pretty smooth. That wrinkled reflection might be from melted wax meaning that one at least had been ironed. (Or stored poorly, hard to tell from a photo, especially that one. )

I'd go on the assumption that the lot had at the least been picked over by someone who knew the sequence or opened enough to figure it out. I'd assume that there would be none of the major rookies, and none of whoever was "hot" at the time it was done.

The problem with unopened stuff is that it sells for more than the cards inside are usually worth. And with big rookies in a set, that difference gets bigger. Otherwise, that's a nice batch of well preserved 75s with some better cards included.

The best ones to find are the boxes of cello packs saved unopened by sequencers. They look played with, and are. But if the big names are inside packs with a common on top and the box has several of them.....$$$ I got one at a flea market once. No stars showing, but loaded when I opened it.

Steve B

[Davino]

They feel resealed to me. Just my feelings.