Considering selling everything - Final Update/Tally

[kailes2872]

I have a set run from 57 on. I have collected and upgraded with over 10 grand in graded cards alone per VCP.

This week, I made the worst mistake of my life. It is a long story but an inquiries about a 56 Topps lot kept leading to other stuff which led to me filing out to Phoenix committed to buy a collection. In my mind I thought that there was massive competition for it and I wanted to lock it up before the locals came in and swooped it up. I had projected this glorious collection that he described and pictured a scenario where I could keep the cool stuff, sell off the parts, and then maybe buy my wife a diamond or take a vacation with all that was left over. I am by no means a dealer, but I had the cash liquid. I felt like the only the separating us was opportunity because I had the liquidity

I didn't sleep for 3 days. I was convinced that I was Mr. Mint which led to me committing on the phone. It was over $14,000

I flew out Wednesday. My flight was delayed 2 hours. I was flying back the same day. It was still no excuse.

My wife was frighted that I would get killed. I worried that it was a scam

I met up with him. I was relieved that he was normal like me. As I went through his stuff, it was nice but not like I imagined. It was devoid of stars and condition was only okay. It had tons of vintage autographed stuff that is outside of my scope and focus.

It didn't feel right. However, I had committed to him on the phone and felt obligated as dumb as this now sounds saying it out. I had boxed myself into a corner and left me no outs.

On the plane, I went through some of the higher end pieces again and all of a sudden, my stupidity hit me like a ton of bricks. There was nothing wrong or malice. He simply over valued his collection. I took his price to mean he had that value in it and created a competitive scenario in my head. I don't consider myself dumb, but I just gave away my sons upcoming car for a bunch of 50s mid grade commons, some autographs, and some cool memorabilia that has a little value - oh and some 56 topps that weren't as good as they look in the picture and I'll have to upgrade.

When I got home and really started looking at the collection, I got sick to my stomach literally. The euphoria that I had since Saturday went away in an instance as I realized what I had done. I had lost control and couldn't listen to reason because I built best case scenario in my head and wanted to land the Phoenix find.

Now I am chunking it out piece by piece. Every time I walk by it, I get I'll. yet I need to play the EBay game to try to recoup something.

My wife is great. We cried together a bit yesterday - not about the cash - it was from savings and not earmarked (although I would have preferred not to do it). It was more about the fact that she didn't like it for many reasons but didn't speak up. She knew I was excited and she deferred to my 'expertise'

We agreed that I would step back for a while. The money that I spend per month on cards will be used to pay back savings. It will take a year to 18 months.

However, now - every time that I walk by my safe of cards, I want to vomit. It has been my passion these last few years but it led to this terrible mistake.

I am wondering if I should just liquidate. I have a ton into it so please no PMs as I am not doing it for money - I need to replenish what I lost but we are perfectly fine. The cards will just serve as a continual reminder of the dumbest thing I ever did or will ever do.

If I decide to punt, I might reach out to a few guys that I know and trust. I made a 13k mistake. I don't want to compound it - but I am in a bad mental state right now.

Thanks for letting me vent

My name is Kevin and I am a certifiable idiot/trainwreck.

[autograf]

The first thing to do is nothing. Sit back for 3 months and just forget it like it didn't happen. You said that you are fine, so just chalk it up. We all make mistakes. After chilling out for a while, try to sell as much of the collection you bought as you can. If you sell $6k, then you made a $7k mistake. Sell $10k, you made a $3k mistake. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water right away as the old saying goes. Try the BST here and sell of some stuff. There's lots of people very interested in vintage autographed stuff. Take your time and ask people for help when you need it. Study ebay completed auction prices on autographed stuff and educate yourself on what you think you don't know. Hopefully, you can minimize the problem and amount of money you're out and move on from there. Don't compound one bad decision with another......
Good luck!

[uniship]

The first thing to do is nothing. Sit back for 3 months and just forget it like it didn't happen. You said that you are fine, so just chalk it up. We all make mistakes. After chilling out for a while, try to sell as much of the collection you bought as you can. If you sell $6k, then you made a $7k mistake. Sell $10k, you made a $3k mistake. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water right away as the old saying goes. Try the BST here and sell of some stuff. There's lots of people very interested in vintage autographed stuff. Take your time and ask people for help when you need it. Study ebay completed auction prices on autographed stuff and educate yourself on what you think you don't know. Hopefully, you can minimize the problem and amount of money you're out and move on from there. Don't compound one bad decision with another......
Good luck!

Exactly.

[Leon]

The first thing to do is nothing. Sit back for 3 months and just forget it like it didn't happen. You said that you are fine, so just chalk it up. We all make mistakes. After chilling out for a while, try to sell as much of the collection you bought as you can. If you sell $6k, then you made a $7k mistake. Sell $10k, you made a $3k mistake. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water right away as the old saying goes. Try the BST here and sell of some stuff. There's lots of people very interested in vintage autographed stuff. Take your time and ask people for help when you need it. Study ebay completed auction prices on autographed stuff and educate yourself on what you think you don't know. Hopefully, you can minimize the problem and amount of money you're out and move on from there. Don't compound one bad decision with another......
Good luck!

+1. Very nice suggestions.

Kevin- As I have said, this won't be your biggest financial mistake in life. (most likely). I could name a dozen I have done and came out ok, and I am a little fish on a budget. Just be glad you didn't buy some restaurants.....or get out of the stock market at the exact wrong time. Don't let this one issue completely stop you from collecting. There is more good than bad, by far, in the hobby. Chalk it up, recoup what you can, sit back and reflect for while, then come back with a bit more experience and yours eyes a bit more open. It's ok. And I moved this thread so others can have a cautionary tale to consider when doing their own deals. Many, if not most times, they aren't what they seem.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Kevin, I had something similar happen to me, however, not quite to the extent. I bought a run of vintage(50s-60s) cards (sight unseen) for several thousand dollars. The condition was hyped by the seller. When I received the cards and went through them, I had the same sick feeling I imagine you experienced. I too did not want to back out as I felt that I had made a commitment, so I was stuck with them.

Over the past 15 years or so, I have bought nearly 2 dozen deals like this and had never had a concern....the difference between these other deals and this one was that I normally buy from people I have had other satisfactory transactions with. I owned the fact that I hoped that this deal would be just like all the others...it was not.

I did exactly what Tom recommended, and that was absolutely nothing for several months. I finally sorted the cards out and began the tedious process of selling them on ebay as singles as I realized that this was my only chance to recoup my original investment. As Tom also mentioned, I studied previous sale prices and listed the cards with reasonable fixed prices in order to maximize my profit. I actually found some hidden gems (ie 64 Flood) embedded in the lot which helped me to increase my revenue. When it was all said and done after listing all of the cards, selling most of them, I not only covered my original cost, my ebay expenses, but made a profit equal to the amount I originally spent. The time I spent listing and selling these cards were my greatest expense, but the profit I cleared covered that time quite easily.

In the end, I added some cards to my collection(not as many as expected), and then earned some money to add more cards to my collection.

As Tom mentioned, take some time before you make any emotional decisions and then carefully look through the lot, you maybe sitting on a goldmine and not even know it. Good luck with this.

[abothebear]

I did a similar thing this week, except that it was one card, and it was only a $25 purchase. My self-frustration about it, and especially the emotional disparity I experienced between the excitement of finding a deal on a card I have been looking for for 3 1/2 years and the low of realizing that the condition was much worse than I thought and that I overpaid, makes me feel a lot worse about it than it probably should. And right now, in the moment, I have no joy about finding the card (and completing my set!). I can only imagine what it is like for you with a purchase that large.

But... it sounds like you have a good plan. And if you can 'erase' your mistake in a year's time then you are doing pretty good.

If you are like me, it is the losing when you thought you won that is the biggest blow. But this too shall pass.

[Econteachert205]

Kevin, I have had similar things happen in stock investing and real estate. I think it's important to fight through it. I'd sit with the stuff you just bought, inventory it, estimate reasonable prices for each item, then slowly work through selling it. Just ABC basically. If the money was for a car for your child, you can probably earn back enough to get a perfectly usable one. Good luck!

[barrysloate]

All of us who have bought and sold baseball cards over a long period of time have made mistakes like this. I've overvalued plenty of things and have taken losses on them.

Tom gave the best advice: readdress this collection after you are no longer emotional about it. Now would be a terrible time to sell it because you are not able to look at it objectively. If you are angry at yourself for doing this you are going to compound the problem by making poor decisions selling it. Wait some period of time, sell it for the best price you can, and just accept the loss. And no reason to sell your whole collection over it since you say your finances are still fine.

Just step away from it for the time being. This doesn't sound as bad to me as it does to you. If you bought a stock and it went down you wouldn't beat yourself up over it. It just happens.

[ibuysportsephemera]

All great suggestions from other Board Members. I have been actively buying sports memorabilia since 1986 and have had "buyers" remorse on a number of occasions. However, my motto is that you need to make some bad deals to score the really good ones. Good luck with your liquidation. If you have any neat vintage paper items from the purchase, PM and let me know what you have.

Jeff

[kailes2872]

Thanks for the feedback. This is some great advice. I think the most frustrating thing was just how stupid I was. This wasn't something where I got robbed (in the literal sense). My wife didn't want me to take the trip for this reason and I said "trust me". She did and I did this. This want something where I got conned with counterfeits. I saw the stuff. I knew it was light but despite that I still rolled out 146 100 dollar bills.

I said trust me, I've got this. And I was a total doofus. I was the guy that I have made fun of. I am an educated, pragmatic guy. I see downside and risk in everything and my risk meter broke. When I came to, it hit me hard. It was like I had a 5 day out of body experience. I didn't sleep. My adrenaline pumped and now I am crashing.

The guy was really nice. He thought he was giving me a great deal. I wish he would have taken one of the other calls and got a reality check but what is done is done. He had a wife and a small child and they were trying to get enough for a down payment. He didn't want to sell. His wife was forcing him to. He was somewhat of a simpleton. He had trouble with your/you're, to/too, there/their. In my head, I thought that he was just unaware of his value. I was going to capitalize on the fact that I had better information. God has a sense of humor as I sure look like the simpleton in the situation

In speaking with my wife, we came to am agreement. Perhaps this was God working through both of us. He was praying for a blessing and was willing to sacrifice his collection. God answered his prayers through me while reminding me to check my pride and arrogance at the door and to keep my day job. Coincidentally(?), the flight was almost cancelled on Wednesday morning. There was a mechanical issue and a 2 hour delay. At first they said that it was not going to leave until 11 which wouldn't allow me to make my return flight. He provided an out for me, but I was blinded by visions of this collection and the riches it would bring.

All I wanted was some 56 commons. Then I got this grand idea that I would sell off the rest and use the white. meat to build out the rest of the sets. I had been waiting on 54-56 and was fired up. Over the next 18 months, I was going to get my PSA 6 Clemente, Aaron, Banks, Koufax etcetera. Now, I get to tap the breaks. But, 14 grand would have bought nice mid grade sets of all three. Not very smart.

In the end, it is about 1% of net worth, 10% of liquid cash and half of my savings. It does not change the game but it is out of character and that is why I am kicking myself the most.

Take care and thanks - you have saved me the money on the therapy session and I need to save up 14,600 so I can start collecting again ��

[ksabet]

I think I overvalue just about everything I come into contact with. I am a collector heart and therefore make a terrible part time dealer.

I take solace in the fact (i know sounds terrible) that my wife overvalued her business and and we took a six figure loss a few years ago. We have recovered but alas I can make a lot of card mistakes and still remind her of hers. :D

[kailes2872]

Actually, forget everything I just said.

While looking through the very low value very beat up pre war book of about 50-70 cards, I found this Wagner!

Here we go easy street!

[kailes2872]

But can someone tell me if this is a unique back - I.e Ty Cobb w/ Ty Cobb back?

[chernieto]

Kevin,
We have all made mistakes and sometimes those mistakes are a great opportunity to evaluate life and see the positive.
1) a supportive wife? .....priceless
2) an experience to help you focus on what's most important? ( family) -excellent
3) You live in the U.S. of A & not Iraq....very lucky
4) the cards you got are not reprints and you can sell them- cool!
5) A N54 group of folks to hear you out who can relate- very nice too.

Count the blessings and learn from the mistake and hope it is the worst that you experience. that would be very fortunate. Enjoy the weekend

[Luke]

Kevin,
We have all made mistakes and sometimes those mistakes are a great opportunity to evaluate life and see the positive.
1) a supportive wife? .....priceless
2) an experience to help you focus on what's most important? ( family) -excellent
3) You live in the U.S. of A & not Iraq....very lucky
4) the cards you got are not reprints and you can sell them- cool!
5) A N54 group of folks to hear you out who can relate- very nice too.

Count the blessings and learn from the mistake and hope it is the worst that you experience. that would be very fortunate. Enjoy the weekend

I agree with all of this. Also, if this really is the worst mistake you have ever made, that's something to be proud of. It's just money after all. Family, friends, and your health are what's most important.

As far as what to do next, I think autograf nailed it.

[btkpath]

We have all made mistakes and sometimes those mistakes are a great opportunity to evaluate life and see the positive.
1) a supportive wife? .....priceless


Familes have been torn apart from much less than this experience.

Take your wife out for a romantic dinner and revel in how this current error in judgment has made you realize just how lucky you are to have a wife like yours, and has served to strengthened your relationship.

You are truly a lucky guy.

[kailes2872]

Familes have been torn apart from much less than this experience.

Take your wife out for a romantic dinner and revel in how this current error in judgment has made you realize just how lucky you are to have a wife like yours, and has served to strengthened your relationship.

You are truly a lucky guy.

+1

[glchen]

You have a very understanding wife. If I had done this, my wife would have kicked me to the curb yesterday. Treasure her. (Your sig line of Proverbs 27:15 is somewhat strange, however. I hope you're not referring to your wife here.)

I would print out your opening statement on this thread detailing what happened, and put it in a very obvious place, so that you can see it whenever you make any large and spur of the moment purchases, so you can really check yourself to see if you're doing the right thing.

As others have said, everyone makes mistakes in buying things. I have made plenty myself in buying fake stuff, way overpaying, many, many times where I have lost plenty of money purchasing things that I should not have. Obviously nothing as large as you did this time, but still adds up. Each incident for me is something that I have learned from, and hopefully, you can do the same. You have your health, a wonderful wife, and it looks like you can still recover from this financially albeit it will take a little while. Good luck!

[buymycards]

Hi Kevin, I buy several collections a year. I learned the hard way not to commit to a purchase until I have thoroughly examined the cards. People always over value their collections. I have made many mistakes buying collections and when I get them home and look closely, my first thought is - "Wow, I screwed up on this one".

It is really difficult to drive 200 miles to look at a collection and then say "no thanks", but it would be even more difficult to buy the collection and regret it later.

You made a mistake. Learn from it, continue to collect and move on. Aaron Rodgers doesn't quit when he throws an interception, he comes back on the field and tries again.

Rick

[kailes2872]

You have a very understanding wife. If I had done this, my wife would have kicked me to the curb yesterday. Treasure her. (Your sig line of Proverbs 27:15 is somewhat strange, however. I hope you're not referring to your wife here.)

It was a joke between the two of us. The pastor used it last week and told the men in the crowd that we could use it as a life verse. I put it into the sig line to see if anyone would see the reference. She got a kick out of it.

She is a proverbs 31 woman - through and through. It is probably time to change it to that. Thanks for the prompting.

[drcy]

If you were going to spend it on a car for sons, you would have spent in to on something that depreciated quickly anyway. In the strictly financial scheme of things, you may come out better financially having spent it on the collection.

And some people spend good money on fakes. There are real horror stories there. You got something authentic and worth money out of it.

The autographs are the wild card here. Along with what you get for the entire collection. In your funk, perhaps you'll get more than you're thinking right now.

Overspending on a collection happens to everyone, even experienced dealers. Even the Mr. Mint you mentioned has overspent. He wrote about buying super rare football card boxes sitting in a garage or warehouse, only to discover when approaching them that they were infested with bugs. I know a well known dealer who bought a high grade 1971 Topps, but when he took the cads out of the binder he discovered many to most were recolored in black pen.

The best thing to do to make up for a bad deal, overspending or whatever, is to save some money and cut spending that you already wouldn't have-- a little here and a little here. Over time, you will make up the lost money by saving money you wouldn't have spent if this situation hadn't happened. If a loss causes you to alter your actions and habits for the better, it can actually lead to profit.

They say a difference between people who are overweight and healthy weight is both will sometimes overeat way more than normal at a meal, but the healthy weight person will make up for it by eating less at the next meal (a light dinner after a big restaurant lunch) or by skipping some snacks he or she would ordinarily have, while the overweight person will continue to eat the same amount as normal.

Personal setbacks and mistakes can make for a better person, short term financial losses can lead to long term profit and a big early season loss can make for a better football team. It's all a matter of how you handle and react to them.

[Al C.risafulli]

I wouldn't call it a $14K mistake. It's something less than that, depending on what you can get for the cards. If you're careful and diligent about selling them, you'll probably pull quite a bit of that back out of the cards when you sell. Perhaps in your enthusiasm, you overestimated the value, but I'm sure you didn't overestimate by THAT much.

If I had a nickel for every time I paid more for a card than it was worth because I was enthusiastic about buying it, I could cover your losses and then some.

I agree with Tom's suggestion that you sit tight and let the emotion seep out of this for a while, and I'm sure you'll find it wasn't such a bad deal after all.

And every one of us has done something similar at one point or another, whether it be in the hobby or out of the hobby.

Best of luck,
-Al

[HRBAKER]

Been there (most of us have), brighter lights at the end of the tunnel. Take the advice, sit back for a while and then prudently recapture what you can and chalk the difference up to experience and a lesson learned. I've had to do it before, not fun but not world changing either.

[4815162342]

Kevin, I have another verse in Proverbs that you should add to your signature: Proverbs 20:10. Reading your first post, it would appear that the differing measure was used by the seller, but by your second post it appears that it was actually used by the buyer.

[kailes2872]

Kevin, I have another verse in Proverbs that you should add to your signature: Proverbs 20:10. Reading your first post, it would appear that the differing measure was used by the seller, but by your second post it appears that it was actually used by the buyer.

Thank you. I was definitely looking to take advantage of the situation and "perceived" better information. Minimally, I was hoping for a wholesale buy - which isn't out of the ordinary - i.e. 15 grand for 18-22 grand to turn it around. A lot of time an trouble parsing that will end up working out to 10 dollars an hour for the time an effort.

If you don't mind, will you send me a PM to help me understand the meaning behind the scripture - in terms of different weights and different measures? I think it means that one person has a price based upon what he knows and the other has it on what he knows?

Thanks for the wise counsel
Kevin

[drcy]

I'm curious what the collection will eventually sell for. In the end, perhaps you'll get what you paid or even turn a little profit. It sounds as if you were envisioning huge profits on resale, which is a source of the disappointment.

[btcarfagno]

If you have any questions regarding the autographed cards feel free to PM me with any questions. There are certainly others on the board who know more than I do but I can hold my own in that area of the collecting world. Would be glad to help in any way I can.

Tom C

[timber63401]

Just be thankful you had $14,000 to make a mistake with.

[ibuysportsephemera]

I made a 13k mistake. I don't want to compound it - but I am in a bad mental state right now.

Kevin, Does this mean that you spent 14k on what you now think is 1k worth of cards and memorabilia?

Jeff

[Tao_Moko]

But can someone tell me if this is a unique back - I.e Ty Cobb w/ Ty Cobb back?

This is by far the coolest piece.

I lost $32k on a house recently and other sizable mistakes like dropping a huge chunk on a SeaRay when I got back from Afghanistan. Nothing is a worse investment than a boat. My humble opinion is that this it's important to remember this is a hobby(for most) and mistakes are just part of it. Everytime I buy or sell something "rare", I find another right around the corner. The reality is that we should probably all use our money foy helping those in need and not cards, but we are spoiled animals.

[kailes2872]

I'm curious what the collection will eventually sell for. In the end, perhaps you'll get what you paid or even turn a little profit. It sounds as if you were envisioning huge profits on resale, which is a source of the disappointment.

I think 4 grand back is a good goal. There are lots of binders of near sets that have been majorly picked over from the stars (I think this happened before I committed to the sale, but if after, that is very disheartening).

There is a 50 bowman partial set that I will parse out and sell in 25 card lots. 54 52-55 Red Man cards with tabs in mid grade (some are lower) Posted on Ebay as a 7 day auction. Williams, Mays, etc. In retrospect based upon the feedback, I should have punted and went slower, selling them in lots of 5 or card by card. I have 2 bids on them now, so I don't think that I can pull it down or if it would ethical.

The 56's might be worth $500 on the high end. There are about 150 different. The Koufax, Mays and Robinson were lower grade, but it was intended as a common lot to try and put a big chuck into the set.

There is also a really nice framed signed picture of Mantle/Williams and a framed signed picture of Mantle/Mays. I have a signed picture of May/Aaron and a signed picture of Aaron hitting 715, so this actually fits very well. Aaron/Aaron-Mays/Mays-Mantle/Mantle-Williams. There are also autographed balls of Aaron and Mays. That is what I will keep. If the pictures are $300 each(?), and the balls are $100 each on the high side, that would be $1300 worth of value that I plan on keeping - so whatever the final tally is, I will add $1300

I had hoped to keep the Red Mans and the 50 Bowman partial set. I was going to work on getting the other 75 cards to complete that one. Now, I think I am going to have to move them to recoup.

There is an T205 Cobb that is "A" altered. I wanted to keep it, but I am going to move to recoup some of the investment. I posted it at $50 and has 14 watchers and is now up to $59. CT says that the last 10 sales have gone between 300 and 400, so I am hoping for a similar amount. It has 8 sharp corners. I will get this card in a higher grade later in my collecting career. It was something that I overvalued in my head when he said that he had it. I didn't do enough research to understand just how low the A cards went for.

A big unknown is a Carl Hubbell Collection that has a signed bat, glove (mid 80's model glove, not Carl's), and a ball. When he told me about it, I pictured one of those finger gloves from years ago. He signed it in 1986 on a modern glove - that was something that popped when I was having some pause when I was making the deal (yet still followed through). There is also a Lefty Grove autographed bat.

Other than that, lots of mid-low grade 50's/60's commons. No high numbers or SPs very few stars.

If I get 2 grand out of all of everything above and beyond what I am keeping, I will be surprised and that would make it an 11 grand hit - with a ton of time, trouble, energy, and travel costs in it - so, I think it is that bad. When I was parsing out when I got home on Friday, that was when it hit me when I was doing the head math.

I will keep a tally as it sells and let you know the final figure.

[Mountaineer1999]

I know very well the sick feeling Kevin. In the 'misery loves company' train of thought I will share this to show that we've all been there one way or another. And things do seem to work themselves out in the end.
I took out a $30000 home equity loan out on the house... The next day I bought $15000 worth of Washington Mutual Stock, later that day or the next morning............. The government seized control of the company and halted the stock. I ended up selling for a 13k loss. I took the other 15K and sunk it in Fifth 3rd and Suntrust banks and recouped my money in just over a year. Things have a way of working themselves out
Thanks for sharing your story and I am 100% certain that you'll be back to normal and this will be a distant learning experience in very short order.

[drcy]

I agree with Tom to not compound a bad, hasty decision with another bad, hasty decision. Don't liquidate just to get it out of sight. Take your time and you'll get your best return.

And a key to remember is everyone on this board has made bad buys. Don't be too hard on yourself.

[Econteachert205]

Everyone should check out the lots Kevin has up on ebay. Like when do you see that many red mans up in one lot, and the auto one as well. Take a look and maybe leave a bid, I know I'll be watching the red man lot closely.

[buymycards]

ebay link?

[kailes2872]

Username is kailes2872

I am away from the house and on my mobile. I will edit in links when I get home tonight. Thanks for the support!

[drcy]

I don't think selling the autographed lot as one 600 group lot as you're doing is a good idea. With the star power and HOF signatures on vintage cards I see there (such as a Gaylor Perry signed rookie,a Frank Robinson signed 1967 Topps and Yaz 1970s Topps), you could at least consign it as one lot to a big auction house like REA or an autograph house like RR Auctions. You could also have it broken up and sold at places like Love of the Game Auctions. Some of those cards are worthy of being sold as singles. Call REA or send LOTG. I'm sure All would be happy to handle it for you.

People buy a group lot of 600 autographed cards to get a deep discount and, if you're fixed on selling it as one lot, you should consigned it to one of the above. People will pay more when it's offered by a place like REA, in part because they've been authenticated. People will be hesitant to buy from someone on eBay who says he's unfamiliar with autographs.

Most single collector in person autographed card collections like that are a mixture of stars and commons, vintage cards to modern cheapo and old timers on reprint/commorative cards. That's all standard for a big lot like that. If they were all got by a single collector who got them in person, that will be a good selling point. But there's no way I'd auction a collection whole like that on eBay, unless I was willing to sell for a deep discount. Those are the kinds of lots dealers buy to break down and resell for profit.

Just my 2 cents, as someone who's collected and sold autographed baseball cards.

And, for all your stuff, I'd be careful about doing a hasty firesale.

[kailes2872]

Thanks. There is 80-90% of The Brian McCrae's and Neil Walkers in the lot. I was just that the HOFers would get cherry picked and I would end up with the scraps. Since this was gathered card by card, it was his pride and joy.

I just don't know the value except that I know that a modern Tom Paciorek card autographed card doesn't have much demand

Maybe the better thing is to do lots of 10 or 20 with a HOFer per lot? Am I allowed to take it down after there is a bid?

If so, should I do the same thing with the Red Mans and sell them 5 at a time?

Thanks, Kevin

[Exhibitman]

The other posts here have covered it well but I thought this:

Earlier this year I needed to sell off some cards. I consigned the cards to an eBay auctioneer. I got slaughtered. I netted less than 50% of what I spent on acquiring the cards, many of which I purchased in the heady market of 2004-2008. I moped around for a while then thought about it and realized a few things:

1. I wasn't using the money anyway. It wasn't the rent money, just some excess cash I spent in cards. I'll earn more.

2. If I spent the money on any number of other things I'd have nothing to show for it anyway. The money I lost is roughly the cost of season tickets to the Dodgers over the last few years and if I'd had that I'd have nothing, not even a World Series to attend. So from that perspective I am no worse off. Probably even had a less frustrating time and definitely ate way less junk food.

3. As compared to what my wife and I have lost on stocks and real estate over the years, and even bad receivables in my practice, the card loss is a drop in the bucket. Heck, I'd be halfway to retired right now if we'd made a few decisions slightly differently. If that doesn't chew my guts out, some freakin' baseball cards won't either [see my tag line below].

It feels lousy but it will pass.

Your mistake, if you want to call it that, was getting emotional about a business transaction. If you are going to be a dealer you need to be detached about the dealing: "no deal is better than a bad deal" has to be your mantra. I went through a small collection at our show in May, made an offer, and got outbid by another dealer. So be it. The seller tried to get me to compete but I had my methodology for valuing the lot, my valuation dictated the offer I made, and that was the end of the story. If I upped my offer I'd have fallen out of my valuation range and been reacting with my heart not my head. Sounds like that is where you went astray. Chalk it up to inexperience and learn from it.

[jefferyepayne]

Thanks. There is 80-90% of The Brian McCrae's and Neil Walkers in the lot. I was just that the HOFers would get cherry picked and I would end up with the scraps. Since this was gathered card by card, it was his pride and joy.

I just don't know the value except that I know that a modern Tom Paciorek card autographed card doesn't have much demand

Maybe the better thing is to do lots of 10 or 20 with a HOFer per lot? Am I allowed to take it down after there is a bid?

If so, should I do the same thing with the Red Mans and sell them 5 at a time?

Thanks, Kevin

I still think the best advice you've received is wait 3 months before doing anything. Watch ebay, learn about auctions and what each one specializes in, and create a strategy to maximize your return.

Otherwise you are just compounding your mistakes.

jeff

[kailes2872]

I still think the best advice you've received is wait 3 months before doing anything. Watch ebay, learn about auctions and what each one specializes in, and create a strategy to maximize your return.

Otherwise you are just compounding your mistakes.

jeff

But am I allowed to pull something down after there is a bid?

[Econteachert205]

I still think the best advice you've received is wait 3 months before doing anything. Watch ebay, learn about auctions and what each one specializes in, and create a strategy to maximize your return.

Otherwise you are just compounding your mistakes.

jeff

I tend to agree. The cobb will sell fine, as will the other lots, but after those chill out and leave it alone for a while. With the cards you sold on here already and the lots you have up you'll have a little cash back in your pocket anyway.

[seablaster]

Some solid advice in this thread Kevin.

If you put that Old Judge Wagner card up for auction on the BST, I'd put in a bid. I think it's funny. :)

[autograf]

Couple things......

In the future, when you talk about and agree on a price, but after viewing it, it's substantially lower value than what you thought, stop the deal. Your word is still your word but of something is THAT far off, you have zero obligation to complete the deal. A plane ticket to Phoenix would be your lesson there.

When you do figure things out on what and how to sell it, use much better pictures. The ones with the lots on ebay are not very good. To get top dollar out of stuff, scan a lot of it, use a flat bed scanner and not a cellphone with crappy lighting.

The HOFer autos look good though......the Mantle 8x10 nit so sure of.....

[Jacker_ Cracks]

But am I allowed to pull something down after there is a bid?


Yes, but FeeBay will charge you 10% of what has been bid.

[Jacker_ Cracks]

Couple things......

In the future, when you talk about and agree on a price, but after viewing it, it's substantially lower value than what you thought, stop the deal. Your word is still your word but of something is THAT far off, you have zero obligation to complete the deal. A plane ticket to Phoenix would be your lesson there.

When you do figure things out on what and how to sell it, use much better pictures. The ones with the lots on ebay are not very good. To get top dollar out of stuff, scan a lot of it, use a flat bed scanner and not a cellphone with crappy lighting.

The HOFer autos look good though......the Mantle 8x10 nit so sure of.....

+1 Totally agree.

[drcy]

I give you permission to pull the autograph lot and consign it to an auction house. Not only is that my permission, it's my advice as your financial advisor.

There, I made an executive decision.

[Deertick]

But am I allowed to pull something down after there is a bid?

Only if you are willing to lie.

I don't think you need to take three months as a cool down, but you definitely need to not do anything until you have formulated a coherent plan. I'm pretty sure that if you had listed those Redmans individually at the same time, you would make a LOT more than as the group of 54. Consider the other items. If you have a lot of autographed cards, you may want to group them by year and team. Photos and balls should probably be listed individually. Consider whether it makes more sense to release all lots at once, or meter them out in some sort of grouping.

BTW, you are already 2.25% toward recouping your investment. :)

[drcy]

As a mere part time volunteer at an art gallery/theater, the full time gallery director asks me to make 'executive decisions.' When she can't make up her mind on an issue she said, "Okay, David, make an executive decision." So I do.

[sac_bunt]

I give you permission to pull the autograph lot and consign it to an auction house. Not only is that my permission, it's my advice as your financial advisor.

There, I made an executive decision.

+1

[Econteachert205]

Listings have been ended except cobb, but I disagree that he had to lie to end the listing. There is an option called there was a problem was the listing and clearly between the photos and the inability to accurately describe 600 autos in one lot, I feel it's fine to pull. That's what the 10percent cost is there for, to keep anyone from pulling at any time for any reason. This to me is a good reason.

[chernieto]

Kevin,
As others have mentioned clear photos make a big difference in the final selling price. Good luck!!

[drcy]

You might consider consigning all the autographs. In person signed Hubbell signed bat, glove and ball are decent items. A good Hubbell signed bat might sell for $200, and, even if modern, there aren't a lot of Hubbell signed gloves around.

[Luke]

Kevin,

Like the rest of the guys are saying, you need to take a step back and formulate a plan. Even if you had paid $4k for this collection, the way you are going about selling it would still be wrong. If you're going to buy a big group, you have to have a plan to maximize your return on it. Listing 600 autographs together shows you had no plan. Time to make one.

[savedfrommyspokes]

Kevin,

Like the rest of the guys are saying, you need to take a step back and formulate a plan. Even if you had paid $4k for this collection, the way you are going about selling it would still be wrong. If you're going to buy a big group, you have to have a plan to maximize your return on it. Listing 600 autographs together shows you had no plan. Time to make one.

+1.....take the time to list items in smaller groups, or singles when possible, as this will maximize your return. FP items will typically allow for a better sell price, IMO.

[Deertick]

Listings have been ended except cobb, but I disagree that he had to lie to end the listing. There is an option called there was a problem was the listing and clearly between the photos and the inability to accurately describe 600 autos in one lot, I feel it's fine to pull. That's what the 10percent cost is there for, to keep anyone from pulling at any time for any reason. This to me is a good reason.

I'd like to get an opinion from Ethicsteachert205. :D

[ls7plus]

+1. Very nice suggestions.

Kevin- As I have said, this won't be your biggest financial mistake in life. (most likely). I could name a dozen I have done and came out ok, and I am a little fish on a budget. Just be glad you didn't buy some restaurants.....or get out of the stock market at the exact wrong time. Don't let this one issue completely stop you from collecting. There is more good than bad, by far, in the hobby. Chalk it up, recoup what you can, sit back and reflect for while, then come back with a bit more experience and yours eyes a bit more open. It's ok. And I moved this thread so others can have a cautionary tale to consider when doing their own deals. Many, if not most times, they aren't what they seem.

+1 exactly! Mistakes are part of collecting, and I think we've all gone in at times with too much enthusiasm and insufficient knowledge. It's not the end of the world!

Best of luck to you,

Larry

[DHogan]

Time heals all wounds. Some leave scars. It sounds like you have a great wife. :)

[bobbyw8469]

I didn't do enough research to understand just how low the A cards went for.

Don't believe this statement one bit. If the card looks really nice for the grade, some collectors could care less if it has been trimmed. I'm not saying they have ulterior motives, but it is a chance to get a really nice looking card for lesser money than they would pay if it got a numeric grade.

[buymycards]

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Rick

[kailes2872]

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Ricki

Ricki,
I apologize. I am paying the price in the fees and I will obviously lose part of the market (you and others) in the future.

I like to think that I have a level of integrity. That is why I asked the question before I took it down. It sounds like I did the wrong thing and I am sorry. I wish that I would have made this post yesterday and had a better state of mind when I put up items.

[drcy]

You hastily put up the lots in the wrong state of mind under duress, then when people pointed out you should wait and better plan before selling the stuff you had to make a decision one way or the other. Don't feel bad about it. I'm not ordinarily for ending auctions early, but you should be given a hard time under the situation.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Ricki

And who can blame you. What a train wreck.

[Orioles1954]

Absent of reading every post in this thread, why not just consign the cards to a major auction house of your choosing and be done with it? Life is too short.

[kailes2872]

I wish that I would have posted this yesterday. I woke up today thinking that I was going to liquidate everything and this thread helped me snap out of the funk a bit and think about a plan. My pride was hurt and I was spinning a bit. I was looking at the stuff and it made me ill. i wanted it gone. I probably sold the lot for too cheap on BST last night and now have $30-$40 in Ebay fees as a result of stopping the auctions. From the above thread, it looks like I did the wrong thing pulling them down. It was less than 24 hours ago, but it was still pulling down after I had them listed. Hopefully, I have paid my last stupid tax on the lot. Between the opportunity costs lost on the lot last night and the fee for pulling down, I need to add $100-$150 to the original total when I keep track of how far I can claw back.

When you add in the PMs offering to sell my collection, it has been an interesting few hours to say the least, but I will heed the advice of the board and proceed with a plan.

My plan will be his:
1.) I will get a new scanner. We have a 3-1, but it sounds like there are better ones designed for listings. If someone could throw out a suggestion, that will be a top priority.

2.) Step away for a brief time and get rid of the emotion.

3.) Red Man's - sell individually with good scans (54 cards total)

4.) 1953 Bowman Color - sell card #1 (nice shape), Musial, Hodges, Rizzuto
and Wynn individually. Sell the rest as 10 card common lots starting at $9.99
(54 cards total)

5.) 1950 Bowman - Sell stars individually. Sell others as 10 card common lots. (175 cards total) starting at 9.99

6.) 1951 Topps Red Backs - Sell stars individually. Sell others in 10 card lots (26 cards total) starting at 9.99

7.) 499 '59 Topps nice grade. Sell stars - roughly 20 individually, sell high numbers (non-star) individually, sell others in 25 card lots. starting price of $9.99

8.) 380 1966 cards. Very few if any high or SP's - mid grade. Sell stars (Mantle, Aaron, Jenkins, Sutton) individually, all others sell as 50 card lots starting at $9.99

9.) 520 1967 cards - Sell stars (Mantle, Killebrew, Robinson, etc.) individually, sell the few SP's (Cash/others), individually, sell the commons in 50 card lots starting at 9.99

10.) 662 1969 near set. Sell stars individually (trimmed Mantle, all others except Ryan and Jackson), sell others in 50 card common lots. Maybe sell all leader cards as a lot? Very crisp grade

11.) 1970 - 3 different groups totaling approximately 1900 cards High Grade - pull and sell all stars individually. All others sell as 50 card lots starting at $9.99

12.) 385 1972 Cards - Strong Grade - 50 card common lots. If there are any stars I will pull them and list them, but I don't think there are many if any. It is a great group of cards for a set builder though...

13.) Autographed Card Collection - Call Auction House and leverage their expertise. this is not a focus for me, so apparently, I under value these. I will let them take these and find out what the market will bear.

14.) Autograph pictures and cuts of guys like Cool Papa Bell, Earl Averill, Babe...Herman, Gabby Harnett, Smokey Joe Wood, Leo Durocher, and a couple others that I can't remember off the top of my head - leverage with AH (just not sure which one as I know REA deals with high end stuff and this might not be of interest to them)

15.) Hubbell Auto Bat, Ball, Glove - same as above.

16.) Gomez Bat, Same

17.) I am not sure yet of the autographed photos of Mays, Mantle, and Joe DiMaggio (especially if there are questions of the authenticity despite the COA). Also autos of Dan Marino, Reggie Bush (2) , Tim Tebow, Dan Marino, Ray Lewis (2), and a few others that I can't remember off of the top of my head. I think I will just post as a BIN or BO, but not sure. (I am keeping Peyton, Marvin & Reggie - it might not have been worth 14k, but it was in my wheelhouse of Colts).

18.) Pre War - mostly cheap low end stuff. 10-12 common T206's I'll probably give to Conner as he builds his Monster. Trying to sell the felts in the BST auction. cut up strip cards. I will post on BST, but I don't think that they have much value as they are cut up. Rudy York Head's up I will sell individually. The 36(?) Goudey that has 4 on the page - Dazzy Vance - sell individually. 33/34 Goudey, give to Conner as he becomes the pre-war expert in the family.

19.) 1956 Jackie Robinson (VG) (2) Sell individually, Warren Spahn, individually, 20+ doubles sell as a lot.

19.) Berra Rookie - sell individually

20.) 48 Feller - sell individually

21.) 1954 Bowman Commons (approximately 20) Sell as Lot.

22.) 48-52 Bowman (approxmiately 20) sell as lot

22.) 1952-1955 Topps - Keep in anticipation of building those sets.

I have a bunch of assorted 10's and 20's of each year - not sure if I should consolidate those and sell as a shoebox lot over multiple years or if I should sell them as a lot on the year. Minimally, by the time I get to early 70's, I should combine the years.

24.) I have a small number 3-5 Hires Rootbeer cards. Those might be okay to sell them by themselves.

25.) Aaron auto ball and Mays auto ball - keep and put them on a shelf below my (already owned) Mays/Aaron autographed picture. I will do the display that has the ball with the card display of both of them.

26.) 56 Topps 175 or so - keep and use this as my basis to build the set. when I get off probation.

27.) Mantle/Williams auto framed picture - keep, Mantle/Mays framed auto picture - keep

28.) Berra 49/50 Pin, sell on Ebay as auction if it does not sell on B/S/T


That looks like everything. The Commons, while commons, are nice solid grade. Hopefully, the lots will bring more than the minimum - but that will be a big determining factor as to how much I get back.

Let me know if you think if the lots seem like the right size. I can do individually. It will be a grind, but if the feeling is that it will be value worth the effort, then I will do it - I just anticipate a bunch of unsold lots if it happens that way.


Lessons Learned/Next Steps:
1.) Breathe - assume the deal will be worse than advertised/overvalued. Don't box myself in the corner with a sight unseen commitment

2.) Corallary to #1. If I get there (in the unlikely event an opportunity like this happens again), and it is not as imagined or advertised, change scope, shape of money, cherry pick if allowed, walk if necessary.

3.) Get Conner to work on using the new scanner and make it a project with the two of us.

4.) Thank my lucky stars for my dear wife and treat her to a nice dinner.



I will start separating out lots in the near term as I get time. Then, in a few weeks/months, I will begin posting. I think that I will post them slowly - i.e especially the 70's as I don't want to lose track of which lot I posted and send the wrong one. I think that I will put the Red Man's up later rather than sooner, as if it proves to be more profitable than I think it will, I would love to keep these and the 70 Bowman's - but more than likely they will go up.


So that is the plan. I am thinking clearly and grateful for the Net54 board members. I have only been here since February and I have learned so much. The haze is lifting today and I will sleep well tonight for the first time in a week.

Thank You

[drcy]

removed

[kailes2872]

And who can blame you. What a train wreck.

+1

Yes, I know. Dumb decision on my part.

[Orioles1954]

This is just such a strange thread. My only advice is not to get too attached to these pieces of cardboard with pictures of baseball players who 99% of the world doesn't know anyway. Oh sure it's a neat hobby that so many of us enjoy, but when it causes such a rush and frenzy of emotion I seriously think it's time to call it a day. Just a FYI, I have sold my collection and started over several times and have never regretted it.

[kailes2872]

This is just such a strange thread. My only advice is not to get too attached to these pieces of cardboard with pictures of baseball players who 99% of the world doesn't know anyway. Oh sure it's a neat hobby that so many of us enjoy, but when it causes such a rush and frenzy of emotion I seriously think it's time to call it a day. Just a FYI, I have sold my collection and started over several times and have never regretted it.

We can end the thread. I was hoping not to come off as a train wreck. I didn't want this to be a strange thread. It has been helpful and cathartic - and I will always appreciate the advice offered.

After I get through selling this stuff, I will take a break and stop as you recommended. When on, I will go back to lurker status and just read and learn.

[Louieman]

I'm a pup in this pound of dogs we call net54, so maybe I don't know what I'm talking about. But man, Kevin, if you look at the soul-exposing intensity of your first post, is your most recent post (the one with the new plan) any less intense or raw or emotional? I don't think so, not at all, even if you're convinced you have a clear informed mind about this now.

I'd go back to what the 2nd poster said, and just calm down. Do nothing. It's been a whopping 5 hrs since you poured your heart out onto this forum and strayed from selling the whole lot. Any new plan you come up with should be able to stand the test of time if it's really legit. If I were in your shoes, I'd do nothing involving this decision for at least a week.

[robw1959]

Thanks for the feedback. This is some great advice. I think the most frustrating thing was just how stupid I was. This wasn't something where I got robbed (in the literal sense). My wife didn't want me to take the trip for this reason and I said "trust me". She did and I did this. This want something where I got conned with counterfeits. I saw the stuff. I knew it was light but despite that I still rolled out 146 100 dollar bills.

I said trust me, I've got this. And I was a total doofus. I was the guy that I have made fun of. I am an educated, pragmatic guy. I see downside and risk in everything and my risk meter broke. When I came to, it hit me hard. It was like I had a 5 day out of body experience. I didn't sleep. My adrenaline pumped and now I am crashing.

The guy was really nice. He thought he was giving me a great deal. I wish he would have taken one of the other calls and got a reality check but what is done is done. He had a wife and a small child and they were trying to get enough for a down payment. He didn't want to sell. His wife was forcing him to. He was somewhat of a simpleton. He had trouble with your/you're, to/too, there/their. In my head, I thought that he was just unaware of his value. I was going to capitalize on the fact that I had better information. God has a sense of humor as I sure look like the simpleton in the situation

In speaking with my wife, we came to am agreement. Perhaps this was God working through both of us. He was praying for a blessing and was willing to sacrifice his collection. God answered his prayers through me while reminding me to check my pride and arrogance at the door and to keep my day job. Coincidentally(?), the flight was almost cancelled on Wednesday morning. There was a mechanical issue and a 2 hour delay. At first they said that it was not going to leave until 11 which wouldn't allow me to make my return flight. He provided an out for me, but I was blinded by visions of this collection and the riches it would bring.

All I wanted was some 56 commons. Then I got this grand idea that I would sell off the rest and use the white. meat to build out the rest of the sets. I had been waiting on 54-56 and was fired up. Over the next 18 months, I was going to get my PSA 6 Clemente, Aaron, Banks, Koufax etcetera. Now, I get to tap the breaks. But, 14 grand would have bought nice mid grade sets of all three. Not very smart.

In the end, it is about 1% of net worth, 10% of liquid cash and half of my savings. It does not change the game but it is out of character and that is why I am kicking myself the most.

Take care and thanks - you have saved me the money on the therapy session and I need to save up 14,600 so I can start collecting again ��

Thanks for your letter, Kevin! I have reached a point where I am pretty much content with my collection as it is. But your letter is a reminder of what CAN happen when you don't see the big picture.

I remember how it all started for me - how I listed a raw T206 Christy Mathewson White Cap on Yahoo! Auctions of all things! That was back in 1999. It was the last of my vintage cards at the time as I had sold off the rest thinking that my interest in the hobby was gone for good. The knuckleheads on Yahoo! thought it was a fake because it looked so nice, so it went for only $165 even though it probably would have graded as a 4-5 . . . it was that nice. Well that sale just ticked me off because I had originally paid $300 for the card and thought I would at least get my money back on it. I had already been ripped off a few times by some of the Yahoos and the $165 sale of that great Christy Mathewson was the last straw!

The anger I felt was, I'm afraid, passion buried deep down inside. And it spawned a new desire to get back into collecting - maybe just to get even and then some! So I began to collect again, although for the most part I took a different direction. Whereas my previous collection consisted of mostly '50s HOFers and that Matty, my focus shifted to mostly '60s HOFers and pre-war HOFers. I now have graded Hall of Fame players from every decade, 1900s-1970s. I do have a several vintage sets and subsets I've assembled as well.

Eric Liddell, the great Olympic runner said, "I feel God's pleasure when I run." In some sense I feel that way about my collection as well, that it is pleasing to God in one sense - that it validates what God reveals about the human condition. By that I mean that if we feel an insatiable ongoing desire to collect, it only validates the fact that we are all made of the same stuff - immortal stuff, that is. And that lack of complete satisfaction exists precisely because we have been created to be at least somewhat discontent and unfulfilled until we enter into God's eternal kingdom forever. In the mean time we need to maintain a healthy perspective and balance on collecting so that it does not dominate our lives and our time and our MONEY!

You obviously have a great wife; mine would have killed me over a huge deal going south like that. The only way I justify my collection is by telling her that it's an investment that is only going to appreciate. I'm in the minority, but I'll weigh in and say that your situation was probably a wake-up call from the Lord. Not that it's time for you to stop collecting all together, but perhaps it's time to restore some balance and perspective, and give this little hobby a much lower priority in your life.

[ZenPop]

Hi Kevin, I can't believe people are advising you to close your auctions, and you went ahead and closed them. They were getting some decent bids and there were still five days to go. I was bidding on most of your items, and when I got home a few minutes ago the auctions were gone. You can bet that I won't be bidding on any of your items when you list them next time.

Ricki

It seems to me (if you've followed this thread from the beginning) that you could have a bit of empathy for what Kevin is going through. You're out NOTHING. ...and NOTHING is promised to you. Kevin had a horrible experience and spoke about it through his heart. He asked for and got advice (really good advice, IMO) from this board of caring experts. He followed that advice. There's no need to get snippy about it and compound his misery.

Kevin: It seems like you've got a good plan. Hang in there and all the best going forward! Cheers!

[Ladder7]

Keven, Although you knew it wasn't a worthy investment, you'd honored your commitment. That speaks volumes of your character... For making a hasty business choice, welcome to the club. Moral of the story, And this is not to be shared outside of here. Though we know for certain we're shrewd, clever and cunning. On our best day, women are way smarter.

Best of luck to you.

[ibuysportsephemera]

One other thing Kevin...I have been selling on eBay since the late 1990's and have watched the many changes. Many years ago, auctions on eBay were the way to maximize your sales. Not every auction was a winner but if you put up enough similar items a few great bidding wars could carry the whole group. NOT ANYMORE. I can tell you for certain that on the memorabilia side you will do much better with fixed price items. If you put a reasonable BIN price you can do much better than starting items at $9.99 at auction. The key is having patience and not putting unrealistic museum pricing on the cards. I don't know if this pertains to cards as much (maybe another experienced card dealer can jump in on this). Just my 2¢ and I hope that you wiggle out of this without too much loss. BTW it looks like there is quite a lot of material in this purchase and on the face looks like you might do OK (but I am not a card guy so what do I
know :))?

Jeff

[Jacker_ Cracks]

It seems to me (if you've followed this thread from the beginning) that you could have a bit of empathy for what Kevin is going through. You're out NOTHING. ...and NOTHING is promised to you. Kevin had a horrible experience and spoke about it through his heart. He asked for and got advice (really good advice, IMO) from this board of caring experts. He followed that advice. There's no need to get snippy about it and compound his misery.

Kevin: It seems like you've got a good plan. Hang in there and all the best going forward! Cheers!


Exactly. Well said!

[kailes2872]

You hastily put up the lots in the wrong state of mind under duress, then when people pointed out you should wait and better plan before selling the stuff you had to make a decision one way or the other. Don't feel bad about it. I'm not ordinarily for ending auctions early, but you should be given a hard time under the situation.

I just wanted to stay thanks again. Hopefully the roller coaster is over and the grind begins. I am seeing clearly, smiling more, making every attempt going forward to be less dramatic and more even keel - but I will be the first to admit that is a lifelong struggle.

Out of curiosity this morning I counted up the HOF auto cards.
There are 43 deceased HOFers including 12 on the vintage card
Highlights include a 56 signed Ted Williams in lower grade. Wife suggested I keep that for the 56 set but I would love to figure out the value and trade for a higher grade slabbed 56 Williams but not sure of the trade value

There is a 65 signed Hunter Rookie, 58 Mathews 53 Kiner, a 51 red back Feller as well 12 total Killebrew signed cards - most of them on modern issues. There are reprints of Hubbell, Spahn, Rizzuto, Kiner. There are also 5 modern Tony Gwynn Cards.

In addition there are 47 cards signed by living HOFers including a 62 and 66 Perry, 64 Giant Brooks Robinson, 67 Frank Robinson, Ripken, Schmidt, Henderson, Carew and a few others.

Yet to be catalogued include 2 Griffey Jrs, Bo Jackson, a very nice grade 71 Steve Garvey, 53 and 67 Joe Nuxhalls, Don Mattingly, 71 Tommy John, and enough Bert Campaneris' to cover family members for multiple generations (20ish).

Challenge now will be ascribing value on these as there not a ton of comps (if any).

So, thank you again for your guidance. The auction was at 50 bucks and who knows where it would have gone with 13 cards pictured off of a camera with bad lighting.

No hurry as I am going to let it breath a bit - just wanted to point out what was there versus what was listed in the posting.

[bobbyw8469]

If I were you, I would get familiar with some grading companies. You would be able to get some of the money back, but you might have to spend a little more on top of the $14,000 you already spent to do it.

[drcy]

One thing you should do right now is to verify that the Mantle, Mays, Aaron, Williams, Hubbell et al autographs are authentic. If they aren't that would be more than a valid reason (legally and ethically) to get your money back or at least a large refund. And any refund would should be a reflection of the exorbitant price you paid.

For 13K, at the very least the autographs had better be genuine.

[Exhibitman]

One suggestion on the autographs. Try Jim Stinson on the autograph thread. He buys collections and has been very fair with me. It would save you the trouble and hassles of finding an auctioneer.

[vthobby]

Kevin,

I have a horror story of mine that brings up bad memories and ill feelings to this day, I was part of a HUGE "find" in the 1980s of 1957-58 Topps Hoops that were still in the original stand up 1 penny vending machines! Never taken out!!!! There was no Beckett at the time so I put a classified ad in SCD for the 2 and one half NM/MT sets that I had and I made about $1000 which to me at the time was BIG money! I know for a fact that almost every high grade card out there came from my "find" that I basically gave away!

Not quite the same exact vein as your story but the point is the same......we all truly make mistakes and if someone says they have never made one then...well.....they are fibbing! Some cost us money both ways (on what we bought or what we let get away) so we are all in a brotherhood of sadness sometimes.

Yours hurts because it is so recent and is a lot of $$$ and you put a lot of effort and time into your journey but time will heal the wounds. SELL the Arizona stuff. Get it out of your system so to speak and out of your sight. take the loss and move on.

My advice may sound contrarian as I describe my pain about my blunder even to this day but I say it with a bit of humor as I can look back now over 25 years or so and say "what a dummy I was!!!!!":p

I guess its part of the healing....I don't know!

Good luck in your future pursuits and hang in there.

Peace, Mik:)

[4815162342]

Kevin,



I have a horror story of mine that brings up bad memories and ill feelings to this day, I was part of a HUGE "find" in the 1980s of 1957-58 Topps Hoops that were still in the original stand up 1 penny vending machines! Never taken out!!!! There was no Beckett at the time so I put a classified ad in SCD for the 2 and one half NM/MT sets that I had and I made about $1000 which to me at the time was BIG money! I know for a fact that almost every high grade card out there came from my "find" that I basically gave away!



Not quite the same exact vein as your story but the point is the same......we all truly make mistakes and if someone says they have never made one then...well.....they are fibbing! Some cost us money both ways (on what we bought or what we let get away) so we are all in a brotherhood of sadness sometimes.



Yours hurts because it is so recent and is a lot of $$$ and you put a lot of effort and time into your journey but time will heal the wounds. SELL the Arizona stuff. Get it out of your system so to speak and out of your sight. take the loss and move on.



My advice may sound contrarian as I describe my pain about my blunder even to this day but I say it with a bit of humor as I can look back now over 25 years or so and say "what a dummy I was!!!!!":p



I guess its part of the healing....I don't know!



Good luck in your future pursuits and hang in there.



Peace, Mik:)


So, let me get this straight: you bought a collection, sold it in a hurry, and regret it. Yet, you're advising Kevin to do the same thing?

[Exhibitman]

Hey Mik if you've been in the hobby long enough your horror story is the same as many of ours. It was a good deal at the time but 25 years later you realize you sold out way too early. I've been there too. I traded away a whole box of FB H and BK cards for some baseball cards when the other sports were afterthoughts. Had no idea they would soar to the heights they have. Whaddayagonnado?

[vthobby]

So, let me get this straight: you bought a collection, sold it in a hurry, and regret it. Yet, you're advising Kevin to do the same thing?

Daryl,

He KNOWS what he has is not worth what he paid. On the contrary, I had a collection that had no "history" or pricing that I could find that was reliable......(I was in high school at the time). He spent a lot of money on stuff he can look up easily and realizes he has made a mistake.

Not exactly the same situation.

Mike

[vthobby]

Hey Mik if you've been in the hobby long enough your horror story is the same as many of ours. It was a good deal at the time but 25 years later you realize you sold out way too early. I've been there too. I traded away a whole box of FB H and BK cards for some baseball cards when the other sports were afterthoughts. Had no idea they would soar to the heights they have. Whaddayagonnado?

Well said Adam,

take care, Mike

[kailes2872]

I wanted to respond in this original thread as I finally cleared out the last of the Phoenix purchase - nearly 6 months from the date.

I can say, with 100% certainty that it has been an adventure with many lessons learned.

In my original calculations of the deal, I thought that I might have $2,000 in total value. That was an underestimation. I lost a bunch, but not nearly as much as I had originally thought that I would.

The original purchase was $14,600. I spent another $178 to finish out the 1970 Topps set to have a better value to sell - so the net cost was $14,778.

In the end, I got back a little over half from a gross perspective - $7,897.64. I paid a little over 300 in postage and supplies. Ebay, Paypal, and AH fees were a bit over $600. I had another $250+ in travel fees in the original trip as well as a trip to Ohio. So the net was somewhere around $7,000 recouped.

In addition, I kept a nice starter lot of '50 Bowmans that I calculated at $800. I kept a lower grade lot of 47 '53 Bowmans ($400) and am in the process of slowly building both sets as cards and deals become available.

I kept autographed baseballs of Hank Aaron and Willie Mays and have a nice display in the basement of the card/ball combos.

I kept a nice batch of autographed pictures - highlighted by Peyton Manning, Eli Manning, Peyton & Roethlisberger together, Dan Marino, 2 Nolan Ryan autographed photos (including the Ventura picture). I also kept a nice Mantle/Mays and Mantle Williams auto picture that I was told were counterfeit - so I have ascribed no value to those - only a picture with grafitti on it.

Of course, the desire for a '56 set was what started all of it and I did pick up a pretty good sized '56 lot that I am now 17 cards away from completing. Ironically, the reason that I pursued this lot versus others is because it had several HOFers in the lot - Koufax, Berra, Robinson (2x), Mays, Ford, Williams and several others. However, nearly all of the HOFers were lower grade and I have replaced nearly all of them with PSA 6 examples. There was a value somewhere between $600-$800 for the cards in this lot.


Finally, I kept a small pre-war binder that had a dozen or so T206 low grade commons as well as 33 Goudey's, 34 Goudey's, Sports Kings, 39 Play Balls. There were multiple Heinie Manush's, a 33 Gabby Harnett, 39 Joe Cronin, Rudy York, and a few other notables. All were lower grade to mid-grade at best and no high end HOFers, only the lower tier guys. But, I did not have any pre-war and now I do. It probably has a little bit of value, but given the condition, not a ton.

Every single lot lost money.
My binder of pre-war cards and higher-end autograph cards cost $1,500. By my count, I got back $1,085 but had $137 in expenses - so this lot cost me $552. As mentioned above, I still have the T206's, the Goudey's, Sports Kings and Play Balls, but it does not add up to $552. I somewhat regret selling the PSA A Cobb as it got less than $300 on Ebay and after fees, was a net of less than $250. However, it had clipped corners and was in rough shape. I will get a nice PSA 3-4 example at some point, but I probably should have just held onto that one until I did.

The binder of older autographs and memorbilia was $500 If I calculated correctly, I got $328 back with another $60 in expenses, so I lost $232. This was a classic example of buying something that I had no idea how to value and paying the price.

The biggest money loser was the Assorted lot of card from 1940-1970 The cost of this lot was $2,110 When it was described to me, it felt like this had some really good stuff. However, when I got it and went through it, I found that the 48 Bowman Berra and Feller cards had pin holes. The '58 Mantle was just okay, the '57 Williams didn't fetch much, and many of the older commons were in wholesale, junk condition. I only got $659 from this lot with another $79 in expenses, so I lost $1,531. I did keep the 47 '53 Bowman Colors (including Musial, Rizzuto, Hodges, and Fox in lower grade), so there was some value there of $300 or so, but this was painful. I really learned a lesson about condition with this lot.

Surprisingly, the lot of autographed cards did almost as well as any of them. I had $1,100 into these and got back $1,059 with $175 in expenses - so a loss of $216 - but way beyond where I thought I would be. I consigned these to Heritage as well as some of the higher end ones. Mark Anderson on this board was fantastic to work with and I exceeded my estimates on my lots. I had no idea that there was a market for these autographed cards - 80% of them lower end guys from the 80's - but there was and they did a great job of marketing them.

I lost a bunch on the Carl Hubbell lot The cost of this lot was $1,090. It had the Hubbell bat, ball and modern glove from '86 as well as a Lefty Gomez signed bat. Both bats were broken. The lot also contained the Aaron and Mays balls which I kept. These netted $280 after expenses, so I lost $810 - or said another way, bought the most expensive Mays and Aaron balls that will ever be sold.

Autographed pictures I got destroyed on this lot. It was $1500 and had a really nice framed autographed picture of Mantle/Williams and Mantle/Mays. It also had autographed pictures of DiMaggio, Mays, and Mantle. I showed them to a board member as I was actually excited to hang those on my basement walls. He informed me that they all looked couterfeit - even though they had COA's. (They were not from JSA or PSA). This was pretty soul crushing. I reached back out to the seller and asked for some money back on these and he refused. He told me that they were sold with Certs and he would not take them back. I have framed all of them and hung them on my walls. They look really nice as pictures with graffitti on them. In this lot was also some random autographed photos (mostly NFL) that did check out. I sold a few of them and was able to recoup a net of about $190. Between this lot and the 1940-1970's lot is where I took the biggest hair cut.

I actually did okay on most of the post war card lots I lost money on all of them but it wasn't the 4 figure losses I had in some of the ones above.

I took a couple hundred dollar beating on the '66's because it was lower condition and had to be auctioned as such. That lot had a Mantle, a Mays, Jenkins, Sutton, Koufax, and a few others - but they were in Poor/Fair condition. It was a classic case of someone putting a price tag on them based upon Beckett value and not taking condition into account. I foolishly bought them and took the hit. I also lost nearly $400 on the '67 lot as the market for mid-grade low number commons isn't good and it doesn't work trying to sell them individually. All the rest of the losses were pretty minor, surprisingly.


I met some really great people on this board I had folks checking in on how the grind was going. They offered fantastic advice, motivation, and support. These were people who I had no interactio with prior to this purchase, but, they were legitimately concerned for me and provided cheerleading from the sidelines.

I had some great interactions with guys like Rob Bessette, Nate Mack, Jimi Vintage, David James, Eric Matthews, Tom Boblitt, Mike (Bocabirdman), Pastor Chris, Drew Ecback (another '56 set collector!), Dennis Ballou, Christian Augustus, Jake Elwell, and many many others that I am forgetting but were really helpful through the process.

I don't wish my ineptitude on anyone - and with your acumen, you probably don't have to worry about it - but for a few grand to make so many great friends and contacts in the hobby, it was nearly worth it.


So, six months later, I have cleaned out nearly all of that inventory. I have a near compelte '56 set and last week bought 199 of the 206 '55's and 248 of the '250 '54's. I have my eyes on a '54 Aaron this week and am looking to track down '55 Clemente and Koufax. By the Robert Morris show in May, I will have all three sets complete and I will begin working on completing the '50 and '53 Bowman. My '56 set is really nice as all of the 34 HOFers will be slabbed at least PSA 6 by the time I am done. Ironically, had I just did a BIN on a very nice set of '56's, and bought the '55's and '54's in August, I would have probably been in the same exact spot. However, I would have had about 200 less trips to the post office and would have missed out on the fun of standing in line in the morning and getting to know Joe the postman so well.

Finally, I have learned that I have no desire to be on the seller side of the desk. I am a collector. I like to buy cards and build sets. I buy high and sell low. I don't negotiate well as I value the relationship too much and bring too much emotion to the transaction. In the poker game of card collecting, I am the rake. As long as I know this, I should be OK. I just need to stay keen to my collecting focus, and continue to collect for the joy of it.


Thanks to all of those who helped on this ride.

[vthobby]

Kevin,
Since I was with you since the 2nd day of your post, I figured to weigh in now at the end. What a journey. Filled with lessons, new friends, new cardboard, and stories! Sorry you could not get more out of the cards but you gave it the 'ole college try so to speak.

Good luck on your current missions and take care,

Peace, Mike

[iwantitiwinit]

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

[Leon]

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.

I wrote off a few thousand dollar baseball card loss and ironically got audited that same year. I missed one small stock sale legitimately and had to pay a little but the baseball card loss write off was fine. I just showed where I bought and sold it. No questions.

[Tabe]

I would consider going back to the seller again on the autographed photos. The fact that they have a COA means nothing. That protects his purchase when he got them - not yours. By selling them, he's warranting that they're legit. They're not, so he's liable for them.

[Econteachert205]

Kevin, your patience paid off. You made the best of the situation and kept some good stuff. It was interesting following the journey.

[ajjohnsonsoxfan]

I would send the signed pics into PSA and see if by chance they're real

[conor912]

I have not read any of the other responses, but I'm sure there is some great advice in there. If you sell now, you will regret it. Chill and take the year off. Pay back savings, then revisit selling. There have been many shitty situations I have gotten myself into over the years, and you know what? I can't think of one off hand....what I do remember are many of the even stupider knee-jerk reactions I had to those situations. Live and learn.

[gnpaden]

I just read through this thread and have definitely been there, but in different context. About a year ago, I just went nuts on busting wax (cases) and spent close to $5k...and maybe got $800-$1000 in return and I lost it. I went home got my safety deposit key, emptied it and went to LCS to sell my entire collection, which consists of many rare MJ inserts from 90's, MJ rookie and large quantity of vintage from 1955-1959. The LCS owner said, "take your cards home, think about it, and call me in a week"...I put my cards back in the bank and stopped buying wax at that point. We all learn as we do, almost a trial by fire effect. I enjoyed reading your journey and you have an amazing collection!

[kailes2872]

You might not have lost as much as you thought. If you fill out Schedule C declaring baseball cards as a business you can claim a loss of approx. 7k. If you are in the 30% tax bracket you can save $2100 at the federal level and a bit more on the state level. That would probably be spread out over 2014 and 2015 but if you have the time it might be worth it.


Thanks for the head's up. I just filed this past weekend and sent everything off. I called my tax guy to see if there was something that I could do after the fact. He told me that he wouldn't do a schedule C since I have gainful emplyoment, but that I could do a schedule D capital loss of an investment. I can take losses (or offset gains) up to 3k per year until the losses are accounted for. It will take 3 years, but it will be found money in the process.

Thanks for the tip. I am going to go buy a card today with that found money!

[WhenItWasAHobby]

I haven't read through every post, but my comments to the original poster is that if you lost $6K, in the big picture some people spend that much for one course in college and really don't learn anything - but learned something that will stay with you the rest of your life as a positive lesson. Also, you are a stand-up guy for honoring your word - and you probably could of legally backed-out on the deal if the guy did over-estimate the value of the cards. I wish you and your wife the best.

[glchen]

That's great hearing that you didn't lose as much as you expected. It's always a learning experience. Even now there are so many times that I lost money, it's not even funny. Recently, I saw a card at a major auction house with back damage described as paper loss. I looked at the somewhat small scan, and I thought it looked like scrapbook residue on the card which could be soaked off, and not paper loss. I didn't want to ask the auction house if it really were paper loss because I didn't want to lose a possibly great deal on a card. I won the card, and sure enough there was scrapbook residue on the card, ..... but also paper loss.... I recently sold the card off for something like a $400 loss. Sometimes you get what you deserve, but it's another lesson learned!