darwinbulldog
08-27-2014, 01:36 PM
This picture is a scrap from a minor league team photo. It is also a picture of my great-grandfather, Herbert Dessauer, of whom there is no record on baseball-reference.com, but who played some lower level minor league ball in Mississippi in the early 1920s ("after the war"). Or so I have been told. I also have one of his jerseys, but it doesn't match this Indians one. The one I have has the name "Foundation" sewn in purple block letters across the front of the jersey. This is probably a long shot, but does anyone here have an idea of what city/cities these teams might have played in?
thecatspajamas
08-27-2014, 02:52 PM
LOTS of minor league teams with the Indians nickname. The list below is from an exhaustive list of minor league teams arranged by team nickname that was given to me a few years ago (and it's possible there have been updates since). I'm sure there are also many town ball teams that played under the Indians name but would not appear on this list. Hope this helps!
Indians:
Andalusia, AL: 1954
Ardmore, OK: 1904, 1914, 1947-52
Bakersfield, CA: 1946-55
Batavia, NY: 1957-59
Brantford, Ont: 1905
Bryan, TX: 1954
Burlington, IA: 1947-49
Burlington, NC: 1958-62, 1986+
Butler, PA: 1935
“Canton-Akron”, OH 1989
Cedar Rapids, IA: 1950-54
Chanute, KN: 1902
Charleston, WV: 1962-64
Cheyenne, WY: 1912, 1941
Chickasha, OK: 1904
Cocoa, FL: 1951-58
Coffeyville, KN: 1902
Cordele, GA: 1947-49
Dayton, OH: 1946-51
Del Rio, TX: 1954
Des Moines, IA: 1895
Donaldsonville, GA: 1955
El Reno, OK: 1904
Fall River, MA: 1895-97, 1902-10, 1946-49
Flandreau, SD: 1902
Flint, MI: 1941
Ft Smith, AR: 1887, 1897, 1951-52
Ft Wayne, IN: 1897-98
Great Falls, MT: 1900
Greenwood, MS: 1921-23
Hartford, CT: 1899-1900
Houma, LA: 1946-52
Indianapolis, IN: 1903-10, 1912+
Iola, KN: 1948-52, 1954
Jacksonville, FL: 1922
Jersey City, NJ: 1977-78
Juarez City, Chih: 1946, 1977-84
Keokuk, IA: 1904-15, 1929-33, 1935
Kingsport, TN: 1921-25
Kinston, NC: 1987+
Knoxville, TN: 1897
Lakeland, FL: 1960
Lamesa, TX: 1957
Lawrence, MA: 1895
Lenoir, NC: 1939
Lewiston, ID: 1937-38
Lexington, NC: 1937-42, 1949, 1951-53, 1960-61
Logan, UT: 1937-42
London, Ont: 1925
Manchester, NH: 1934
Marion, IL: 1947-48
Marshall, TX: 1923-27
Mattoon, IL: 1947-50, 1952
Miami, OK: 1921, 1946
Midland, TX: 1947-57
Monessen, PA: 1934, 1936 Monroe, NC: 1969
Muskogee, OK: 1906, 1912 Natchez, MS: 1902-05, 1948-53 Newark, NJ: 1908-16 New Castle, PA: 1951 New Haven, CT: 1921-22 New Iberia, LA: 1956 North Platte, NE: 1956-59 Oklahoma City, OK: 1909-11, 1918-42, 1946-57
Omaha, NE: 1895, 1901-03
Oneida, NY: 1889
Oneonta, NY: 1890, 1940-42
Opelousas, LA: 1907, 1934-41
Osceola, AR: 1936-37
Osh Kosh, WI: 1891-92, 1905-14
Ottawa, IL: 1914-15
Paducah, KY: 1914
Paris, TX: 1952-53
Pawtucket, RI: 1966-67
Pittsfield, MA: 1950
Plattsmouth, NE: 1892
Pontiac, MI: 1912-13
Pueblo, CO: 1900, 1905-09, 1911-12
Quincy, IL: 1928-32
Reading, PA: 1952-61, 1965 Rock Hill, SC: 1967 Salinas, CA: 1965
Salisbury, MD: 1922-28, 1937-41
San Antonio, TX: 1929-32
San Luis Potosi, S.L.P: 1963 Savannah, GA: 1907-12, 1926-28, 1936-42,
1946-54, 1970
Scranton, PA: 1886, 1892
Seattle, WA: 1922-38
Shamokin, PA: 1926-27
Shawnee, OK: 1904, 1923-24
Sheboygan, MI: 1940-42, 1946-53 Sherbrooke, Que: 1953-55
Sioux City, IA: 1900, 1914-23
Spokane, WA: 1903-18, 1920, 1939-42, 1946-56,
1958+
Springfield, MO: 1887
Springfield, OH: 1937-39
Statesville, NC: 1969
Sumter, SC: 1970
Talladega, AL: 1913-14, 1928-30
Tallassee, AL: 1939-41, 1946-48
Trinidad, CO: 1912
Utica, NY: 1911
Vidalia, GA: 1952-56
Waco, TX: 1890, 1906, 1923-24
Waterbury, CT: 1968-69, 1985-86
Waterloo, IA: 1977-88
Watertown, NY: 1989
West Palm Beach, FL: 1940-42, 1946-59
Indians: (continued)
Wichita, KN: 1950-55 Wilkes-Barre, PA: 1949 Wisconsin Rapids, WI: 1942, 1946-53
Yakima, WA: 1920-21 Youngstown, OH: 1909 Zanesville, OH: 1949-50
darwinbulldog
08-27-2014, 03:01 PM
Hmm, promising that the one Mississippi team on the list is 1921-1923. Thank you very much. I'm also told he played for one of the Cardinals' farm teams. Maybe that's the Foundation team. The Greenwood Indians don't have any listed affiliation. My understanding of it, and this is just based on what I recall from Ken Burns, is that the Cardinals were the only major league team that really had an extensive farm system in those days, but I don't think the family member who told me about the St. Louis affiliation would have had any knowledge of that. Alright, I'm off-topic enough for now. I'll continue the investigation on my own.
darwinbulldog
08-27-2014, 09:06 PM
"Herbert A. “Hooks” Dessauer, Shirley’s husband, was a semi-pro baseball pitcher who went to Spring Training with the Cleveland Indians and was offered in the 1920s a professional contract with the St. Louis Cardinals, but turned it down because of family obligations."
Source: http://iagenweb.org/clinton/people/patin/PTPatin.htm
(This source also includes the photo that was posted above.)
And that would seem to solve the mystery, but I am in a position to be able to consider the source. The guy who wrote all of that is my grandfather's cousin, and I suspect he just made up the whole thing about the Cleveland Indians because it seems consistent with the picture. "Oh, the Indians. Guess he was with Cleveland. I'll write that." I don't believe Cleveland ever had uniforms with "Indians" on them until the 1940s. Does anyone else know otherwise or know that this is true?
Also, my grandfather, that is Herbert's own son and a baseball enthusiast in his own right, never said anything to me about Cleveland. And he talked about baseball pretty much every day of his life. The Cardinals were always his favorite team, and that was because his father had been in their farm system for a time. It's possible they offered him a big league contract, but I doubt that part of the story as well, as it just seems like something that members of his immediate family would have known about and mentioned to me at some point. Also it seems unlikely that he would have been offered the opportunity to play in St. Louis without having accomplished enough in the minors to show up in the baseball-reference database, but maybe it's less thorough than I give it credit for. It also seems to me if he had been that good that soon he would have been something of a local legend as opposed to just the great-grandfather who played a little minor league ball once.
RUKen
08-28-2014, 06:54 AM
And that would seem to solve the mystery, but I am in a position to be able to consider the source. The guy who wrote all of that is my grandfather's cousin, and I suspect he just made up the whole thing about the Cleveland Indians because it seems consistent with the picture. "Oh, the Indians. Guess he was with Cleveland. I'll write that." I don't believe Cleveland ever had uniforms with "Indians" on them until the 1940s. Does anyone else know otherwise or know that this is true?
You're right; according to the Hall-of-Fame uniform website, Cleveland didn't have "Indians" on the uniforms until 1946.
The Baseball-Reference roster for the 1923 Greenwood Indians is particularly incomplete, probably because the league disbanded in mid-season. I came across another website that included a roster for this team, but Herb Dessauer wasn't included.