Could this be a real Cobb auto?

[thebigtrain]

Yes, it is from Coach's Corner, but is there any chance this is real?

http://www.myccsa.com/lot/261/ty-cobb-hand-signed-jack-dempseys-restaurant-receipt.aspx

Looks like Cobb had the flounder that day. I'd imagine these old receipts are pretty rare in themselves regardless of the Cobb auto authenticity.

They've also got a Woodrow Wilson and a William Howard Taft signed ball this month, and a Billy the Kid auto cut. I really want a Bonnie and Clyde dual autographed basketball, one that could be seen from 27 feet away, but they haven't seemed to come across one yet on CC.

[daves_resale_shop]

Not a chance... Ty hated fish... Y feels off, and angle just doesn't seem right

[Lordstan]

I am no expert on Cobb, but if that came from a known reputable dealer, I would probably believe it was real. Unfortunately, I couldn't/wouldn't/shouldn't buy anything from CC with any expectation of it being real. I added shouldn't buy anything, because I think anyone who puts money in their pocket, even if it were, miracles of miracles, a real signature, is helping them to continue to be in business and rip people off.

Avoid them.

[William Farrell]

There's also a Jack Dempsey's in New Orleans that is still in business.

IMO, the check looks newer than 1961. And where in the US was sales tax 7.3% prior to 1962?

To my knowledge, there isn't a state that had a sales tax that high until later than 1961, the last year this could have been signed.

[gnaz01]

Very fake

[Lordstan]

Very fake

See. That's why I said, I am no expert with Cobb. That's also why I only get stuff from people I trust.

[Jay Wolt]

I have a stack of these Jack Dempsey receipts and was told they were late 60's/early 70's when I bought them.
So these were generated after Cobb died.

http://www.qualitycards.com/pictures/jackdempseyreceipts.jpg

[William Farrell]

Last month, Coach's Corner had a sealed pack of Piedmont Cigarettes (20 count cellophane sealed pack with the red pull strip, something unseen prior to 1960) that "could have a T-206 Wagner in it".

It was a 1960s Piedmont pack. Must have been a find because the month before there were multiple ebay listings with boxes of them. :D

[Duluth Eskimo]

That 1970's date was exactly what I was thinking when I saw that receipt. That Cobb portion of the autograph is terrible.

[William Farrell]

That 1970's date was exactly what I was thinking when I saw that receipt. That Cobb portion of the autograph is terrible.

It would have to be at least ca. 1970 for state sales tax to be even close to 7.3% anywhere in the US.

CC regularly slips up with these anachronisms on their "fantasy" pieces, not only with player lifespan issues but by their obsession with adding a date inscription indicating a time before an item was manufactured.

On the one hand, they probably researched the founding date of the company that printed the check (1921) and felt comfortable with that detail, but didn't do any research on sales tax data, half-azzing it by not doing so.

[RichardSimon]

the chances of CC selling an authentic Cobb auto. are as good as the Houston Astros winning 3 straight World Series.
This one is NG.

[William Farrell]

the chances of CC selling an authentic Cobb auto. are as good as the Houston Astros winning 3 straight World Series.
This one is NG.

Based on what I've seen, that would be the general rule for their Ruth, Gehrig, King Kelly, Joe Jax, Matty, and Joe Kelley as well, among many others. ;)

The "salesman sample" rings are also notable, as if Balfour or Jostens would produce any rings, salesman samples or not, that look as if the mold was melting when cast. :D

[GrayGhost]

Not to mention the forger was a bad person with Math. the adding of 5.75 and .42 equals 6.17, NOT 6.27:)

Utter Garbage, but you can still bid on this, dated and all.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/261/christy-mathewson-single-signeddatedcertified-vintage-baseball.aspx

OR:


http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/261/pud-galvin-single-signeddatedcertified-vintage-baseball.aspx

[earlywynnfan]

Not to mention the forger was a bad person with Math. the adding of 5.75 and .42 equals 6.17, NOT 6.27:)

Utter Garbage, but you can still bid on this, dated and all.

http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/261/christy-mathewson-single-signeddatedcertified-vintage-baseball.aspx

OR:


http://www.myccsa.com/Lot/261/pud-galvin-single-signeddatedcertified-vintage-baseball.aspx

As bold as the day they were signed!!

And nobody will notice the dates are in the exact same hand, naah!

[Nyygameused]

I for one think The Mathewson was in fact signed on 8/14/13...................... 8/14/2013 that is :D

[perezfan]

I love how the "t" in Mathewson was crossed twice (and in two separate ways). It takes a rare breed of forger to trace over his own work :rolleyes:

[thebigtrain]

If the Cobb receipt from Jack Dempsey's was real, what would it be worth? Cobb autos are not really all that rare, are they? I was thinking like 300 to 500 bucks but am curious what the experts here think?

[perezfan]

$300 might be a tad low (if it were real, which it's not).

I think $400 - $450 would be the going price for that particular example... just beacause the auto is strong, condition is good, and the medium is somewhat interesting.

[thebigtrain]

So for $28, which is what the Cobb receipt is bid to now, it might not be a bad deal to "fill a hole" in one's collection until a real one is available.

I guess Coach's Corner is useful for people who can't afford real autos to get started cheaply in the hobby. Then once you have money you can replace their stuff with real autos. In that sense CC is filling a sort of market niche, they should however just label everything as "reproduction" to be more honest. Maybe Morales's certs actually say in the fine print that the items are repros.

[thecatspajamas]

So for $28, which is what the Cobb receipt is bid to now, it might not be a bad deal to "fill a hole" in one's collection until a real one is available.

I guess Coach's Corner is useful for people who can't afford real autos to get started cheaply in the hobby. Then once you have money you can replace their stuff with real autos. In that sense CC is filling a sort of market niche, they should however just label everything as "reproduction" to be more honest. Maybe Morales's certs actually say in the fine print that the items are repros.

I hope your tongue is planted firmly in your cheek as you type that. For $28, I'll scrawl Cobb's name on a piece of paper myself to fill a hole in my collection. There is no excuse for knowingly supporting forgery, even at a low price point.

[gnaz01]

I hope your tongue is planted firmly in your cheek as you type that. For $28, I'll scrawl Cobb's name on a piece of paper myself to fill a hole in my collection. There is no excuse for knowingly supporting forgery, even at a low price point.

I FULLY support Lance's statement here, I couldn't write it fast enough!!

[perezfan]

I really think "thebigtrain" was joking :rolleyes:

[thebigtrain]

I was joking of course guys lol.

Also, it seems like the forgeries lately are getting cruder and cruder. I really wonder if there are any actual "consignors" or if the owners of CC just forge the stuff themselves. I also wonder why this just goes on and on and the Feds and Bucks County DA do nothing. At this point it is "willful blindness" on the part of the owners. No way can any rational person believe any of these autos are real. It's no different than if someone offers me 10 K to deliver a brown paper bag and when I get caught and a kilo of coke is in it I say "I didn't know I never looked inside."

[William Farrell]

I was joking of course guys lol.

Also, it seems like the forgeries lately are getting cruder and cruder. I really wonder if there are any actual "consignors" or if the owners of CC just forge the stuff themselves.

The later I'm sure. IMO, a handwriting analyst would find upwards of 80% of all items signed by deceased players to be executed by the same hand, and the writing implements do not appear to differ as well.

The same signature errors appear on almost all of the Ruths, trajectory approached from angles that Ruth's signature writing mechanism could not have executed, and this is true of many other players as well.

There are even some examples that appear to be directly copied (very slowly drawn with multiple retracing of the written line) from forged exemplars (yes, forgeries of forgeries), which is why for the most part, the signatures are performed so poorly, whoever is doing this is absolutely the most talentless forger in the world, IMO. It's so obvious that they may as well sign an old Bible, "Best Wishes, Moses 1455 B.C."

[thebigtrain]

The 2 or 3 fully signed Bealtes albums offered every month on CC (mostly American Capital Records releases, some of which are likely later stereo reisssues that date to after Lennon's death in 1980) are even more absurd than the sports items.

Authentic signed Beatles albums are EXTREMELY rare. I believe there are less than 30 to 50 real ones verified to exist, and most signed albums are the British parlphone release of "Please Please Me" which was released in England in summer of 1963, before they became so famous that they were totally inaccessible. Once they hit it big in America, there was no way for any ordinary fans to get access to them anymore, and few fans carried albums around with them to get signed.

When authentic copies do come up for sale, they bring prices in the 30 to 60 K range. The coach's forgeries usually sell for between 100 and 250 bucks.

[thetruthisoutthere]

The 2 or 3 fully signed Bealtes albums offered every month on CC (mostly American Capital Records releases, some of which are likely later stereo reisssues that date to after Lennon's death in 1980) are even more absurd than the sports items.

Authentic signed Beatles albums are EXTREMELY rare. I believe there are less than 30 to 50 real ones verified to exist, and most signed albums are the British parlphone release of "Please Please Me" which was released in England in summer of 1963, before they became so famous that they were totally inaccessible. Once they hit it big in America, there was no way for any ordinary fans to get access to them anymore, and few fans carried albums around with them to get signed.

When authentic copies do come up for sale, they bring prices in the 30 to 60 K range. The coach's forgeries usually sell for between 100 and 250 bucks.

Ted Taylor, who is either a complicit authenticator or totally incompetent, has "authenticated" hundreds of Beatles signed (forgeries, of course) albums for Roach's Corner (Lee Trythall and Scott Malack).