View Full Version : Personal Note On 2014 National: Examining Photos in Person
I will be at the National this time, at booth 1820 helping Belltown Vintage Cards (Scott F.), but will also be examining photos there. If you have anything photo or related (I'm also well versed in ink printed item), feel free to stop by.
I will be issuing physical certificates on the spot for a fee, but, if you don't want a physical documentation of opinion, I give general opinions and advice for free to visiting collectors. (If this was a fee based-ad, I wouldn't have posted). If Leon think's this is post is inappropriate as an ad, I understand if he removes it, but I figured it involved free advice it would be okay.
Just wanted to give a heads up for those photo collectors or potential photo buyers. This is my first National, so I don't know what to expect. I have been told that being a dealer at the national involves a lot of sitting around downtime and general boredom (Someone said "Bring a book'), so would rather be looking at someone's photos and items that just sitting around.
If you have anything unusual or special you will want me to look at or want an appointment to make sure i'm at the booth or want to meet me elsewhere, you can email me beforehand at cycleback@cycleback.com
Lastly, no one's omniscient and I'm only human, so don't get mad if you give me a mystery photo or lithograph and my conclusion is "I don't know."
The very last note is I'm not business-associated with Scott F. or anyone else at the booth (two other Net54ers are also renting space from Scott at the booth too). Scott and I just happen to be old friends from the same area and are traveling together and sharing the booth. Other than I will have some of my books for sale, I'm not selling any photos or cards or memorabilia, and get no percentage or other payment from anything else that sells by others. I'm not there working as a dealer and any T206s, photos or autographs at the booth are not being sold be me. No auction house or dealer has paid me to push consignments their way, and I'm also not working in competition to any Net54ers or tother who are there to sell cards and memorabilia. If no one wants my services, I'll be treating my trip to Cleveland as a vacation. I was raised in the Midwest and, living on the West Coast for the past two decades where my family including retired parents also live, get back there rarely-- so, when Scott asked if I wanted to tag along, the idea of taking a trip to the Midwest and going to my first National had appeal as a summer vacation destination.
Cheers,
David Rudd Cycleback
Runscott
07-23-2014, 01:04 PM
I have been told that being a dealer at the national involves a lot of sitting around downtime and general boredom (Someone said "Bring a book'), so would rather be looking at someone's photos and items that just sitting around.
Okay, fine - I'm ignoring you for the entire trip, including the drive up and back. You might want to bring 2 books.
Lastly, no one's omniscient and I'm only human, so don't get mad if you give me a mystery photo or lithograph and my conclusion is "I don't know."
Only omniscient non-humans are allowed behind my table. Change your attitude.
-- so, when Scott asked if I wanted to tag along, the idea of taking a trip to the Midwest and going to my first National had appeal as a summer vacation destination.
Cheers,
David Rudd Cycleback
You will not be disappointed. I have already planned side-trips to see the world's biggest ball of fishing line and we will be stopping to reenact Custer's last stand with a mime troupe. Possibly a tour of the Velveeta plant. Other than that, lots of counting cows.
Jewish-collector
07-23-2014, 01:28 PM
David - I'm looking forward to seeing you at the National. I, too, treat the National as my summer vacation. Have a safe trip. Alan http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-eatdrink004.gif
As I said, I am Runscott's volunteer assistant and guest at his booth. I was already his volunteer assistant for a day when he did the Seattle show a couple of months back. A dealer always needs a second person to at least watch his table while he goes to bathroom or gets lunch. I've already seen a lot of his stuff he sells. He sells vintage cards and photos, which is in my area of knowledge. He also sells vintage autographs which isn't in my area of expertise.
Exhibitman
07-23-2014, 04:41 PM
I look forward to seeing you there.
RichardSimon
07-23-2014, 04:53 PM
Okay, fine - I'm ignoring you for the entire trip, including the drive up and back. You might want to bring 2 books.
Only omniscient non-humans are allowed behind my table. Change your attitude.
You will not be disappointed. I have already planned side-trips to see the world's biggest ball of fishing line and we will be stopping to reenact Custer's last stand with a mime troupe. Possibly a tour of the Velveeta plant. Other than that, lots of counting cows.
Will you be making a video of the Velveeta tour?
thecatspajamas
07-23-2014, 05:27 PM
Will you be making a video of the Velveeta tour?
Already back to making cheesy jokes.
As someone who grew up in Wisconsin, I've been to a cheese factory where you got to see the cheese being made. I also went a toilet/bathroom museum in Kohler Wisconsin. Kohler Company is one of the world's largest plumbing products manufacturers and they have a free public 'history of bathrooms' museum, which actually is quite interesting. There's also a mustard museum in Mount Horeb Wisconsin, which is not far from where I grew up.
Wisconsinites can be corny and cheesy, but they also know it and do it with the sense of fun. That's half their charm. Even the locals get a laugh out of having a mustard museum in their town.
I saw the real Star Spangled Banner in person today. I am happy.
David- I doubt you will be too bored. There will be a ton of folks from this board there and you will know a lot of them by at least their id's here. See ya' there....
Runscott
07-23-2014, 07:02 PM
I just test-packed the car and everything fit perfectly...my stuff fit perfectly. The glove box is still empty.
Michael B
07-23-2014, 07:50 PM
I saw the real Star Spangled Banner in person today. I am happy.
David- I doubt you will be too bored. There will be a ton of folks from this board there and you will know a lot of them by at least their id's here. See ya' there....
Leon,
You were a few blocks from my office. I am right behind the National Archives.
Michael B
07-23-2014, 08:16 PM
You will not be disappointed. I have already planned side-trips to see the world's biggest ball of fishing line and we will be stopping to reenact Custer's last stand with a mime troupe. Possibly a tour of the Velveeta plant. Other than that, lots of counting cows.[/QUOTE]
Based on the timing of the trip you will probably hit the early arrivals for Sturgis. I suspect Wall, SD is in the mix. I would make one suggestion: The Spam Museum in Austin, MN. Right on Rte 90 and about 15 miles east of Rte 35 which takes you to Minneapolis/St Paul
Even Leon has been there...........
Leon,
You were a few blocks from my office. I am right behind the National Archives.
Don't want to derail this thread too much but my family and I will be here in DC tomorrow too. We are staying at the Ritz on 22nd....funny picture there too....actually, Spam that is fried isn't that bad ..
Sorry for the slight veering David... :)
Michael B
07-23-2014, 11:35 PM
Don't want to derail this thread too much but my family and I will be here in DC tomorrow too. We are staying at the Ritz on 22nd....funny picture there too....actually, Spam that is fried isn't that bad ..
Sorry for the slight veering David... :)
I will be near that hotel in the morning. I have done a bit of legal work on that building.
I figured out my COA system, but haven't settled on pricing and it might change as the show goes by. I did authenticated photograph auction for auction house, but that was something like 800 lots (including large group lots), no certificates, writing the lot descriptions and was essentially paid by the hour. Hard to figure per photo, as each photo takes a different amount of time, and I neither want to price too high or too low. I rarely do evaluations through the mail, because I don't want be responsible for the items, hate packaging and paperwork. I've done LOAs once in a while via mail if asked, but have never more than that. Never appealed to me and, as I said, I don't like to do things through mail or do paperwork. I thought the in-person, on-the-spot situation of the National would be the best place to try it out. If I like it and people want my services, great. If it doesn't work out, that's okay because the National is also my summer vacation.
But, as I said, general advice or a quick opinion is free of charge. You only have to pay for the piece of paper, if you want my opinion in writing.
I originally wasn't going to issue any certificates, but Scott said collectors would want something on paper. So I made little certificates to write down my opinion on, and got a personalized embosser. The certificates of my opinion are far from fancy, but I plan on photographing everything I write an opinion on for later verification via my website if needed.
Lastly, I give my opinion and not an guaranteer or insurance company. Though if I can't come up with a good opinion on an item, I wouldn't write give a certificate for it. And if something is fake or not worth value-wise of a certificate, the opinion would fall under the 'free advice' section. I'm not an appriser and don't predict resale values, but wouldn't charge $10 for a written opinion on a $2 photo.
Also, I'm not an FBI facial recognition expert and won't do research on the identities of all the members of a team. You'd have to pay me by the hour for the latter, and I'm sure there are many resident Net54 baseball historians who could do a better job than me at baseball history research. I'm a physical photograph historian and can tell you on the spot if the photo is original, reprint, really from the 1800s or made later, etc. I will have my scientific equipment with me.
I thought perhaps I should just have a tip jar and not have to worry about pricing :)
Hey, now that I write it, maybe I will have a tip jar. Advice and non-written opinions are free, but you can tip if you want and if you think the advise was worth it.
My funny tip story is I volunteer at a local non-profit art gallery and was working at the concessions stand for an art reception where they served wine, soft drinks, cookies and such. For whatever reason there was an empty glass flower vase left on the stand and a guy put in $5 as a tip. I told him that wasn't a tip jar, it was just an empty flower pot and I was just a volunteer who didn't accept any payment including tips. It was crowded with art/society types and he was obviously worried about being seen taking money out of the jar, but I assured him he could it back. He still hesitated, but finally reached in and took it out.
This time I'll have a tip jar and see what happens.
Okay, Scott and I just discussed this. He's a dealer who does show, so is my pricing advisor. The price for a cert is $10 per photo, with negotiable discounts for bulks and lower rates for more inexpensive photos that are easy to identify. Exceptions in price are made if you have something that will be time consuming to identify (ala rare format, something unusual, mystery photo that will take research).
I plan on doing everything while you are there. The photo is examined and you get a certificate while you wait. I have a personalized embossment stamp to finalize the certificates. No dropping off and waiting for it to be mailed to you.
The certificates of opinion are simple and pre-printed and I hand write in the photo's description, then emboss with my stamp. I plan on photographing/documenting all the photos I cert, so they can be verified later.
But general advice and opinions for collectors who don't want anything in writing is still free. The fees are only for those who want an opinion in writing.
And I'm still going to have a tip jar, so see how that experiment works. If my advise or my customer service is unworthy, tipping is entirely optional.
Michael B
07-25-2014, 12:35 PM
II thought perhaps I should just have a tip jar and not have to worry about pricing :)
Hey, now that I write it, maybe I will have a tip jar. Advice and non-written opinions are free, but you can tip if you want and if you think the advise was worth it.
This time I'll have a tip jar and see what happens.
David,
Reminds me of the new wave dance club I was a bouncer at in the early 1980's. Called 'Spit' and located right behind the centerfield stands of Fenway Park. They had a coat room and the girls put out a jar with a sign - 'Tipping is not a city in China'.
It's all a curious topic, because people are paying me for my knowledge. I'm not selling a product like a piece of memorabilia, unless you consider a piece of paper (certificate) a product. I just consider a cert just a documentation of my opinion. Written instead of voiced.
That's why a tip jar is an interesting idea when giving out something thats not tangible. People pay me if they like the knowledge I give them.
But, seriously, all a collector is required to pay me for is to have an opinion in writing on paper. Feel free to ask me for voiced (rather than documented on paper) advice. I only require payment when paperwork is involved.
The whole endeavor really is a first time experiment for me to see if it's worth my while and if I'll do it a second time. If it turns out I make $1.50 (or $0) an hour for for examining people's photos, I won't do it a second time. I honestly don't have any expectations, beyond what it would take for me to do it again in the future.
A family member has always complained to me that I freely give out authentication advice and opinions to whomever asks for it. She has long said I should charge for my expertise, as a lawyer or psychologist does. I always jokingly respond to her, "But if I charged for my advice, no one would ask for it."
Steve_NY
07-26-2014, 11:47 AM
David, When you get bored, walk around the show and look at some of the unbelievable items that will be showing up. I am not sure about Cleveland, but I haven't really been bored at a National in the past 10 years until Sunday. Even then, there is plenty to see. Stop by and say hi, Booth 305P Steve
YankeeFan
07-29-2014, 04:45 PM
David, I hope you thoroughly enjoy your experience at the National and get to examine a lot of interesting photos!
Not that you need anyone to vouch for you, but I felt it would be appropriate in this post to publicly thank you for generously sharing your time and expertise with me
regarding the Daily News Roger Maris 61st HR photo. First through several emails (the free opinions you refer to) and then agreeing to inspect it in person.
Now that I know how much you dislike the "through-the-mail" process, I am even more grateful.
I would encourage anyone with a vintage photo to stop by and have David take a look. You can take the free opinion, or leave a tip,
but I'm sure you will get more than your money's worth for the nominal $10 fee for a written opinion.
SAllen2556
07-29-2014, 11:17 PM
I'll be stopping by with this photo. It's been in the family forever but the back is blank. Hoping you can possibly date it.
So at least you've got lunch on Friday paid for!
http://i811.photobucket.com/albums/zz32/sallen2556/fd5db1a5-3346-43e4-a797-30f613c22af3_zpsf9613c71.jpg
Scott Garner
08-05-2014, 05:06 AM
David & Scott F.
I really enjoyed getting the opportunity to meet you both in person last week.
I hope you had a great National.
All the best,
Scott
Jaybird
08-05-2014, 01:07 PM
David, nice chatting with you at the National. How did you think your experiment went? What were your general impressions and did you see any interesting items? Your expertise is certainly well worth the $10 charge. I'm wondering how many people took you up on it and what kinds of things came your way.
I'm glad I went and will go to Chicago. Even found a 1200x microscope at an antique store.
If Scott F. ever posts the video he made of me examining a postcard in my 'laboratory' I will be a living legend. Everything was so bright in the building that to use my back light I had to go on my hands and table under the booth table.
GehrigFan
08-08-2014, 07:17 AM
David, how did it go at the show? I wouldn't expect it to have been packed as you probably only advertised to people on this board, but I think there is plenty of room in the market for another authenticator of photographs, and can think of no one better than yourself.
Would you consider doing this through the mail as well, and adding an image of the photo on the certificate (or were you already doing that)?
Mark
I'm thinking about it. I just had a few of my books in a pile in a small corner of Scott's booth. My books sold well to passers by, which pleased me, but the only people who knew i was there to authenticate were Net54ers who were there to authenticate. The good thing is that meant I got to mill around a lot and meet all those folks, including the so-called 'big wigs.' I was surprised how many knew who I was and making the contacts and having the conversations was very useful. And enjoyable. I enjoyed talking to all (well, 95%) of the people there, including auction house presidents, local collectors and Net54ers. The social aspect of the trip was worth it and I thought people were friendly.
I've always preferred to do large collections all at once, such as though auction houses and museums, and that's what I plan on doing. But I will have it so I can do things through the mail for collectors. The problem with the mail is the packaging can cost more than the authentication fee.
One thing is I'm familiar with all forms of photography, including non-sport and modern, and other areas as well. I also specialize in ink and printing press items, such as antique posters, postcards, art prints as well. I can even tell you if your Andy Warhol screen print is original. Some people, including a couple of auction house executives, would say "You do just photos, right?" and I'd have to correct them.
I can say that the photos people had me look at were an interesting assortment-- the whole range. One intentional forgery. And my booth mate, Scott, would have me assess the value of photos before he bought them. A free service as it was his booth. Some guy, who I guess was leaving to go home and wanted to unload his bulk, sold Scott a fantastic 1919 Milwaukee Brewers team photo that was possible unique-- after asking me if the guy's price was good. Scott's knowledgeable about photos, and a good second opinion for me, but he wanted my valuation opinions ("Is that a good deal?")
But I'm thinking about the whole thing. I will have it that collectors can have me examine photos if they wish. Before, I never really did that and when a collector would ask if they could send me a photo to examine, I'd think "Hmm, what's the logistics behind doing that?" and often say I don't often examine things through the mail. I'd do it, but on rare occasion-- if I knew the person or if it was an auction house. This time I'll be ready and likely even promote the service.
I won't bore you with anymore details :)
DeafSports
08-08-2014, 10:21 PM
I emailed you about my purchase today.
Best,
Danny
Runscott
08-09-2014, 12:16 PM
One thing is I'm familiar with all forms of photography, including non-sport and modern, and other areas as well. I also specialize in ink and printing press items, such as antique posters, postcards, art prints as well. I can even tell you if your Andy Warhol screen print is original. Some people, including a couple of auction house executives, would say "You do just photo, right?" and I'd have to correct them.
David knows all aspects of vintage photography, so he is an excellent resource for oddball photos. He also knows rarity of photos based on the combination of age, size, subject, etc. I acquired two photos that weren't in the range of what I would call 'normal', and it was great to have David there to discuss. But for the record, I did manage to make six other photo purchases unassisted :)
For the record, my dad thinks string theory is a bunch of bunk.
He also told me that your Oxford time was spent in Mississippi at a truck stop.
Few know that Scott owns a unique baseball photo 'type' collection, including the only baseball opalotype I know of (opalotype was an early photo process with the image on white glass), late 1800s Kodak snapshots including a salesman sample and the only cyanotype (blue image) cabinet card I've seen. The first Kodak snapshots were round image albumen prints mounted like cabinet cards.
So, even within the esoteric genre of baseball photography, Scott has some proverbial hen's teeth. A few of them are so rare and unusual that, if he wanted to sell, he'd have to write an article for potential bidders explaining what they were.
I don't know if Scott's collection needs an authenticator or an exorcist. Luckily, I can perform both services.