19th Century Baseball Belt - Info Needed

[IronHorse2130]

So I have no experience with 19th century equipment and want some opinions on this belt. Because it says BBC I am confident its a baseball belt and not a fire belt. Can anyone tell me when it is from? How can I tell 1860's vs 1870's? The asking price is a bit over $1000.00. If it's from the 1860's that seems fair to me. Any and all help is appreciated. Thank you!

[Matvoo]

Cool piece

[MGHPro]

I would be very cautious on that - it's very easy to paint and age lettering
Matt

[1880nonsports]

would it then be another case of criminal "humor" or an unconscious slip given the suggestive meaning of the team initials ?

[aquarius31]

Try to get more details from the seller on how he/she acquired it and any additional background such as location....I previously recall seeing this in one of my online searches and vaguely recall it being from somewhere out West? I'm curious as to why/how they date this item to 1860-1870. This belt is unlike the other belts which I have seen(dual use fire/baseball) and has a more folk art feel to it although the detail on the lettering is quite intricate. It has age to it but I'd be cautious about shelling out $1k + without more details.


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[drcy]

Not a sure fire test, but paint tends to lose it's black light fluorescence with time. Black lights are used to help judge the age of the paint and varnish on antique collectibles, such as fishing lures and toy banks. These antique items are sometimes repainted and revarnished in modern times, similar to how baseball cards are sometimes altered. Added new yellow paint will often fluoresce fairly brightly, whereas antique paint will have lost much of its fluorescence.

I also think examining the wear would be useful, as I would think you could tell if the paint was added recently to an old leather belt. Obviously the paint has wear.

It's hard to tell just from the picks, but, looking at it, it could be gilded in gold. Numerous things were gilded with gold in the old days, including furniture, important documents, book edges and cover titles and the lettering and edges on the Old Judge cabinets. The gold would be in the form of leaf or dust/specks, which can be seen under strong magnification, and gold does not tarnish/darken with time. The gold leaf or specks were glued on and much of it can flake off over time, but the gold left will remain bright and shiny. Genuine gilding in gold would definitely be consistent with it being an antique. That's an old fashioned technique that takes skill. And there's the cost of the gold. You can gild in metals other than gold (silver, copper, etc), but those metals tend to tarnish tarnish and darken, while the letters on this belt are still bright like gold. The 1911 T205 baseball cards have gilded borders-- you can see the specks of metal under a microscope--, but it's copper and has tarnished over the years. With antique gilding, it's always easy to tell if it's genuine gold-- because the metal is still bright and shiny as if new.

If the lettering is gilded in gold and shows appearance of wear and aging (flaking off, etc), it's more than safe to say it's antique. And, as you might expect, something being gilded in gold adds to its desirability and value-- if just because it makes it seem more fancy.

[Runscott]

There could also be original lettering that has been painted over more recently - maybe even a long time ago;e.g-1900-1940. Unlike autographs that have been drawn over, it might be easier to spot evidence of a repainting. And if there was such evidence, I would be more likely to buy it than if there was only one application of paint whose age couldn't be determined.

You could also go to a vintage clothing website and ask if the details of the physical belt were appropriate for one that's supposedly that old.

[drcy]

I would think it wouldn't be hard to tell the difference to paint that was added to a then (130 years ago) new, clean belt and wore off as the leather wore down and cracked, as opposed to new paint added to an already old, worn belt. If genuine, the paint would have been applied to the clean surface of the leather. If added many years later to an already cracked, scuffed and worn belt, the paint would be in the deep recesses of the wear and perhaps drip down the inside side of a crack.

[jpop43]

Where's the belt now? I'd be happy to go check it out and see what's what ;)

[khkco4bls]

yeah yeah wouldn't we all Jonathan.:D