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ALR-bishop
07-13-2014, 04:01 PM
I finished this set with the 2nd CL card with the help of Carlton Miller. For anyone else interested in this set here is a great article on it by Carlton in the current issue of SCD. Anyone interested in the Topps regular 1968 set and it's variations should also read it

http://www.sportscollectorsdigest.com/featured/a-tale-of-the-yellow-back-1968-milton-bradley-set

savedfrommyspokes
07-13-2014, 07:42 PM
Nice to finally be able to pat Carlton on the back publicly for this fabulous and informative article as he was generous enough to share a preview a few months back with me. Thank you again Carlton! Over the years I have sent a bunch of these 68 MB BB to Carlton before I decided to start on this set myself(thanks to Carlton for motivating me)....so far I am about 40% complete.

horzverti
07-13-2014, 09:30 PM
Thanks for posting. Great info. Let's see some 68 MBs!

ALR-bishop
07-14-2014, 09:18 AM
MB LC Variations...both are MB cards

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img657_zpsae4a6f77.jpg

I have one pair of these with my MB set and one with my 1968 Topps set since they are listed as variations to it in most guides

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img254.jpg

Koosman

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img256.jpg
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img255.jpg

Aaron MB back and regular 68

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img260.jpg

JollyElm
07-14-2014, 03:26 PM
I thought the only CL's in the MB set of 77 cards were the two different Marichal variations. The Robinson CL was part of the game, too?

Mark70Z
07-14-2014, 04:39 PM
Someone show the Brooksie please!

ALR-bishop
07-14-2014, 05:35 PM
Sorry---good catch Darren. The Robinson variants are from the regular set. I pulled up the wrong scan

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/img575_zps359e37a2.jpg

JollyElm
07-14-2014, 06:10 PM
Sorry---good catch Darren. The Robinson variants are from the regular set. I pulled up the wrong scan.


You had me scrambling to update my need lists!! ;)

kickstand19
07-14-2014, 06:39 PM
Just wanted to chime in to acknowledge the great job Carlton did on putting this article together. He's been an immense help over this past year as I've hunted these cards aggressively. Everything he has said about these cards are true. A few collectors will be all it takes to start drying the inventory up. The MB story is a great one which I think will resonate with collectors. It's also very reasonable to believe these cards eventually end up in a Super Set. Great opportunity to find these cards now... Putting this set together has been an absolute blast!

BTW.... Just the Marichal checklists are in the MB set

4reals
07-14-2014, 11:57 PM
I was fortunate enough to have Carlton ask me to help on his project. He emailed me the scans of each card and gave me the coordinates on where it would have appeared on a sheet and I simply pieced it together. Here is a larger version of the picture of the sheet since the one on the article isn't very big.

http://i773.photobucket.com/albums/yy19/joeoneone/cards%20blog/1968ToppsMBSheet-BlkBorderwatermark_zpsdcbff0b1.jpg

JollyElm
07-15-2014, 12:47 AM
I have a pretty nice Stottlemyre…

http://i1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee404/JollyElm/1968miltonbradley_zps035f1fe5.jpg (http://s1226.photobucket.com/user/JollyElm/media/1968miltonbradley_zps035f1fe5.jpg.html)

kickstand19
07-15-2014, 01:20 AM
That's a real nice Stottlemyre.... I've had trouble coming across that one

savedfrommyspokes
07-15-2014, 06:47 AM
A few collectors will be all it takes to start drying the inventory up.

I have had great luck finding these MB cards (both BB and FB) embedded in random lots....over the past few years, I have probably come across 100+ of these MB cards (if I had kept them all, my BB/FB set likely would have been complete) out the 12-15K cards from these issues I have bought and gone through before reselling. Before Carlton turned me onto these cards several years back, I had no idea they existed, so in the years before, there is no telling how many I missed. Based on my experience with finding these cards embedded in lots(even from experienced dealers), there are a lot of these MB cards still out there lurking in dealer stock, collector sets and accumulations, unknown to their current owners.

I think it will be a while before these are dried up because they are so dispersed and embedded.

savedfrommyspokes
07-15-2014, 06:47 AM
A few collectors will be all it takes to start drying the inventory up.

dup

savedfrommyspokes
07-15-2014, 06:47 AM
A few collectors will be all it takes to start drying the inventory up.
Duplicate

ALR-bishop
07-15-2014, 06:50 AM
Thanks for posting that Joe.

Saved makes the point that some sellers may be unaware of this set and mix them with regular Topps 1968 cards in their inventory. When I was putting my set together I came across a few sellers offering cards from the later 1968 Toppps series as MB cards because of the similar backs. If collecting this set it is important to be familiar with the checklist.

Anyone here have the complete game with cards ? I know Carlton has a few. I am just a baseball guy so it is not on my list. Anyone collect the football set ? The hot rods ?

savedfrommyspokes
07-15-2014, 07:03 AM
dup

savedfrommyspokes
07-15-2014, 07:04 AM
Thanks for posting that Joe


Yes, very nice Joe

kickstand19
07-15-2014, 09:04 AM
I do agree that there are still quite a few of these yet uncovered. However, they will be spread out thinly through many different collections. Hardly anyone will have a lot of these. I've contacted a ton over people over the past year (probably over a thousand or so) with regard to these cards; many big dealers included. Your going to find that a lot of the big dealers have been cleaned out and have very few. After they've been cleaned out, its going to take a long time for them to restock. I've also inquired with many sellers about MB's in their collections, and have scored quite a few of these this way (I have approx 800 total) I do expect to see a minor glut of these cards as people start to figure out what they have and attempt to make a few bucks. I just think a few collectors could put a serious dent in what's available. I guess time will tell.

ALR-bishop
07-15-2014, 10:08 AM
Mark---here is the Robinson

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/WhitenOldClothes845_zpsa352df53.jpg?t=1405440449
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/WhitenOldClothes846_zpsfb0b7093.jpg?t=1405354096

Mark70Z
07-15-2014, 05:26 PM
Al,

Thanks so much for taking the time to post the Brooksie MB. Your example looks to be in very nice condition as well.

Mark

goheels
07-15-2014, 09:25 PM
Mark,
Here's a picture of a Brooks MB with a top border (lower part of the Ron Mix card). For whatever reason, there aren't many Brooks cards cut with the border. I have about 30 Robinson MBs and only a few with this border.

goheels
07-15-2014, 09:47 PM
Here is one of my two PSA 8 Robinsons. Came from my "Game 7" purchased for a minimal sum over 20 years ago from an antique/toy dealer in the midwest. I have a couple raw cards that may equal or surpass this one but I did think this one was undergraded. To date this game has yielded 8 PSA 9 cards, still have some more to be graded. I thought the centering was perfect on this one.

goheels
07-15-2014, 09:59 PM
For my MB auto collection I tried to get cards with borders. Brooks signed this for me years ago. Very gracious.

kickstand19
07-16-2014, 10:44 AM
152915

152916

Here are a couple 2014 Topps 75th Anniversary Buybacks I located when Series 1 broke a few months back. Good illustration of how mainstream these cards are. I thought they were pretty cool...

Mark70Z
07-16-2014, 05:22 PM
Mark,
Here's a picture of a Brooks MB with a top border (lower part of the Ron Mix card). For whatever reason, there aren't many Brooks cards cut with the border. I have about 30 Robinson MBs and only a few with this border.

You really shouldn't have more Brooksie MB's than a Brooks collection... So if you ever make a reduction to the 30, please let me know.

Thanks so much for posting the Brooks MB cards; I really enjoyed the view...

goheels
07-16-2014, 08:54 PM
You can barely see the white border at the left, almost perfect centering.
Second card is nice too. Both came straight from games and went to storage years ago. Fortunately, both of these cards came from the middle of a stack that had a relatively loose rubber band. Smaller rubber bands have taken great looking cards down to a PSA 6 from the indentations on the side.

horzverti
07-16-2014, 08:58 PM
The card in the middle is a reg Topps card and the cards on the left and right are Milton Bradley versions.

You can see that the Milton Bradley issues have yellow backs and the regular Topps has the orangish back.

The Milton Bradley version often has a more orangish red color and the reg Topps version will have a deeper true red color printing of 1968 Rookie Stars.

These MBs are by no means plentiful and should demand a higher premium. Sure they can be found on eBay, but I don't think their current prices reflect accurately on their scarcity. It is no secret that MBs exist, but I think we should expect their demand to increase as they become more regarded as necessary in the 1968 Master Set.

I feel that the 1968 Milton Bradley cards are an absolute gem of an issue. Thanks for the great thread.

horzverti
07-16-2014, 09:10 PM
Heels, those are gorgeous MB Ryans!

Bestdj777
07-16-2014, 09:55 PM
Anyone know what the deal is with the 68 Mantle? My understanding is that there was no MB version, and it is not on the checklists I've seen, but I have seen pictures of what was represented as a MB version.

Thanks,

Chris

goheels
07-17-2014, 05:09 AM
I have seen the picture and website you are referring to. There aren't any MB Mantles, never were. All the cards were taken from the 1st and 2nd series. I have opened up 8 games to date in my lifetime--about 800 cards in total. That should average 6 cards each (800/132=6.06). In that grouping I have a few cards with only 3, maximum 9, about what you would expect statistically. No Micks.

Bestdj777
07-17-2014, 05:15 AM
I have seen the picture and website you are referring to. There aren't any MB Mantles, never were. All the cards were taken from the 1st and 2nd series. I have opened up 8 games to date in my lifetime--about 800 cards in total. That should average 6 cards each (800/132=6.06). In that grouping I have a few cards with only 3, maximum 9, about what you would expect statistically. No Micks.

Thanks for confirming. I really appreciate it. Not sure where those pictures from--photoshop?--but they had me searching for a bit for a Mantle. I'm very glad I won't have to shell out the money for one though.

goheels
07-17-2014, 09:06 PM
Vorzverti,

You bring up a great question about the possible difference in the front of the cards. Your two Ryan MBs sure look different.

If you look at my two, one is orange looking and the other is red. I looked at my Ryans and I don't see a pattern.

A better test was the 155/156 World Series cards. I had exactly 6 regular WS 5 and 6 cards each to compare with 28 and 25 MB cards respectively. I think that's a good sample size. I don't see a difference in the cards. Some look like red and some like orange.

I did a decent look at cards 7,8,10 (leader cards with red/orange tops) and the lettering for the Indians Rookies/Tigers Rookies, both Marichal check list cards, and Dodgers/Yankees cards which have red circles. Didn't see a difference. It would be nice if picking out MBs were that easy.

Al Richter has a great picture of the 68 Billingham rookie card regular Topps issue which has the orange and red variations. There are a few rookie cards like that in the regular 68 set, and amongst variation guys I think there is a bit of divided opinion. It really is hard to distinguish. I feel the same about the 1964 Topps Leaders Cards, red vs orange "variations".

The only difference I have seen on the MB vs regular fronts so far (other than cards with borders) is that the cards with bluer backgrounds like Jim Merritt, Don Wilson, and Ron Willis are more intense and darker hues than the regular cards. I have 46 Merritt MB cards and 14 regular Merritts. In general the MBs are bluer but at the end of the spectrum some of the lighter blue background MBs are lighter toned than the darker regular cards. It does get to the backs of the cards with this issue. I quit trying to guess on the fronts after wasting quite a few dollars on ebay buying what I thought was an MB and I finally figured out I just couldn't tell. I wouldn't gamble on a Ryan with those prices, to be sure.

But then my eyes are quite middle aged.

goheels
07-17-2014, 09:24 PM
The WS Game 6 card is badly miscut. It resides in the 7th row, 7th column, and the white border is a Pete Beathard. The Hudson (3rd row, 10th column) is worse and you can see the AL 10 card on the obverse.

The corners are perfect, these cards came straight from a sealed game. I don't know if the resolution shows it but there is an indent at the top of the WS GM 6 card and a small one at the bottom. Whenever the rubber bands were placed vertically and not horizontally there was more of an indent. This card was 3rd down in a stack of 26 cards. The Hudson likewise came from the same game, different stack. There were six terribly miscut cards in this one game, none in my other games. The Hudson has a small ridge at the upper right border, from years of pressure in the box. That indent usually knocks a PSA grade down to a 5 to 6.5. The cards before and after these two were perfectly centered, rare for MBs. Go figure.

These scans were high res 600 DPI. You can't see the flaws on the scans but they are there. PSA misses them sometimes but not often. It certainly adds to the challenge of getting decent grades. These cards with the high gloss and brighter than average colors look sharper than regular 68 vending cards, but the dings of the box and rubber bands make it a crap shoot.

horzverti
07-17-2014, 09:48 PM
Thanks for the analysis Heels. I need to find myself a red lettered MB Ryan now. :)

Mark70Z
07-19-2014, 07:33 AM
Ok... Any good looking Belanger's to share?!?

goheels
07-19-2014, 02:16 PM
1 of 2 graded 8s, none higher.

kickstand19
07-19-2014, 02:43 PM
Nice Belanger Heels... I haven't had much luck finding him in high grade. Very tough card... EX is the best I have

Mark70Z
07-19-2014, 02:59 PM
That's a great looking card; thanks so much for posting Carlton. I've always like the pose of Belanger in this shot, with the away Baltimore uniform...classic!

Has there ever been any information discovered as to who selected the baseball players in the set? Just seems like an interesting selection. I'm just glad there are two awesome O's in there, Brooks (greatest 3rd baseman of all time), and Belanger (greatest defensive shortstop of all time). No debate; I'm correct on this one.

goheels
07-21-2014, 07:18 PM
I don't think we will ever know why those seven rows of cards were selected out of the 10 possible 1st series rows and 8 possible 2nd series rows.

I never spoke with James Shea, Sr. He retired in late 1967, stayed in the Springfield area until his death around 1984.

I did speak with his son briefly, James Shea, Jr. He ran the company from 1968 until the merger with Hasbro in 1984. He moved to California, and died there in 2013 at the age of 87.

The last contact I had with anyone at Milton Bradley who had anything to do with this set has no memory left, severe dementia.

Mr. Shea Sr. was a lifetime Red Sox fan. I have always wondered why he wouldn't have picked some of the Yaz League Leader Cards--he was the triple crown winner in 1967. He might have also picked Tony Conigliaro #140. Willie Mays #50 was still one of the most popular players in those two first series. I believe the selection was random, as the atmosphere in that company in early 1968 was very hectic. I don't think Mr. Shea picked them. Checklists and rookie cards were not popular with kids back then.

Mark70Z
07-22-2014, 06:02 PM
Carlton,

Thanks again so much for the information on the MB and the generosity you've shown.

Regards,

Mark

goheels
07-22-2014, 09:22 PM
Here are two extreme miscut regular cards. The distance between the bottom of the red surname letters and the white border in the MB cards is 2 mm; it is 4 mm in the regular miscuts. On the back, the regular 68 Wills miscut is so extreme at the bottom that it becomes white stock. You can see white stock all the way around any 1968 regular BB sheet.

Mark70Z
07-23-2014, 04:06 PM
Ok Carlton. Post your FAVORITE MB card; please...

ALR-bishop
07-23-2014, 07:50 PM
Koosman rookie ?

goheels
07-23-2014, 08:12 PM
Bought this Blue Eddie at a card shop years ago in New Jersey.
Definitely an MB--look at the lower border, and the yellow back.
It is next to a "missing link" card of Brinkman and Winston Hill.
A regular 68 Brinkman is depicted for comparison.
I have found at least one other MB Blue card and a few other strange ones.
It is totally missing yellow:
Yellow letters minus yellow=white letters (or blank letters)
Green circle minus yellow=blue circle

I need the printing experts to help with this one!!

goheels
07-23-2014, 08:23 PM
Same card shop in New Jersey. I couldn't believe it when I saw these two. Paid 50 cents each for them.
There were 11 other MBs in the shop, none of them unusual.
You can see that the Blue Cox also has the same attributes:
Yellow letters minus yellow=white or pale letters
Green circle minus yellow=blue circle
If you look closely at the burlap, it is bleached looking, missing yellow.
It is definitely an MB by the back, which is diagnostic.
Regular Cox 68 for comparison.

goheels
07-23-2014, 08:33 PM
This graded Carew MB is graded as a regular card, long before PSA recognized MBs.
It looks different from my other Carews. It looks bleached out a little bit.
You can see the white border on the bottom which is the top of the Turbo-Sonic hot rod card.
The trophy is not nearly as yellow.

brightair
07-23-2014, 08:34 PM
I'm getting the impression that there are 2 versions of regular Topps Brinkman and Cox, white team and yellow team, and just the yellow team versions of Milton Bradley cards. Is that correct?

Second, I'm trying to get a sense of value for MB cards, but can find little to go on. Can anyone give me some idea of average prices for commons, and also average prices for the Brinkman and Cox MBs? Perhaps in EX shape?

Thanks in advance.

If it looks like I am trying to acquire some of these, you are right. Have also cards to trade if anyone is interested...

https://sites.google.com/site/richarddingmancards/home/richard-dingman-trade-material

brightair
Richard D

goheels
07-23-2014, 08:39 PM
Here is the "blue" Carew next to my PSA 9. The 9 is the only one graded as mint. There is an absence of some yellow. The tone of the grass is different as is the burlap border.

goheels
07-23-2014, 08:58 PM
Welcome to the discussion, Richard. I use your variation list every time I go to a show and I deeply appreciate the work you have done in listing variations.

The Cox YT was listed first as a "variation" in 1983 Sport Americana Price Guide #5, and the Brinkman YT in 1987 (volume 9). Denny Eckes first noted the Brinkman and I bought my first MB Brinkman from him in 1986.

All Milton Bradley 68 cards are yellow backs and vice versa. This includes the Cox/Brinkman. They were only produced in the game but have become widely dispersed as many of the MB collectors on this board will attest.

To be consistent, PSA should list all 77 MB baseball cards as variations or none. There is nothing different about the Cox and Brinkman except they were obvious from the team letter CORRECTIONS, hence their inclusion in the guidebooks, still 15 plus years after they came out.

The MBs do belong in some kind of master set. It is possible that PSA may recognize a third category down the road--the regular set; the master set with the checklist variations, and cards #10 and 400; and a super set that would include the latter plus the 77 MBs.

This would be consistent with how they dealt with the 1962 green tint cards. PSA lists the regular set, the master set with variations, and a super set with all the green tints.

The very strange cards I listed tonight are bizarre. I didn't mean to confuse anybody.

As to the value, it is based on supply and demand. The prices on these cards are going up. A PSA 10 Brinkman sold for almost 4000 recently, a PSA Ryan 7.5 for 3200+, and a PSA 9 Gaylord Perry for 500 last week with spirited bidding.

Not enough sales information yet for a price guide.

I lost a bid for a PSA 9 Ted Savage a few months ago to a fellow MB collector. It went for over 200, with several individuals bidding over 150. A PSA Savage is a common that usually sells for 20-25.

ALR-bishop
07-23-2014, 09:41 PM
Carlton those card oddities are great

Richard-- I agree with Carlton, there are no Cox or Brinkman variations to the regular 68 set, just the MB versions. And the MB set should in it's entirety be viewed as a variation to the regular 68 set. PSA , unlike SCD, was a long time recognizing the 62 greenies as variations, but the separate printing of them is similar to the MB separate printing

brightair
07-23-2014, 09:49 PM
Goheels for the comment, I had no idea that there really were others who were seriously interested in variations when I was working on compiling my lists (which change often, usually as a result of net54 discussions). Now I've learned there are others out there even more compelled than I by these oddities. What fun, we are not alone!

I hope to continue refining and completing these lists, and with the help of this board, should eventually have a helpful guide, at least for the novice.

Thanks also for the info. Now if I get it right, there are both white and yellow team Cox and Brinkman regulars and just yellow team MBs, is that correct?

Further, as one who collects much lower grades than many who post here, I'm curious what people guess average going prices would be for raw MB commons, say in around ex shape. I've the chance to buy a small lot of MB commons and wonder what would be fair - $5@, $10@ or what? I only have a 2011 guide and online info is skimpy and erratic.

I would love to make progress with this set!

Any help appreciated!

brightair
Richard D

brightair
07-23-2014, 09:55 PM
Al - ok, if you are right, then my SC which lists both variations for Cox and Brinkman in the regular set, must be including the yellow team MB variations as part of the regular set, if only doing so for just these cards.

This is confusing, because then they go on to list the MB subset with Cox and Brinkman yellow team cards, as if now there is a third variation of these players' cards (and I am not counting the blue circles pictured above).

But if I am understanding you correctly, it is now making some sense.

Thanks again!

4reals
07-23-2014, 11:11 PM
Carlton those card oddities are great



I agree, great variations Carlton, very cool!

savedfrommyspokes
07-24-2014, 06:19 AM
Richard, a thank you from me also for your list of variations.....between you, Carlton and several others here on net54, all of you have helped my variation collection flourish.

I have not openly sold a BB MB card in years, as before I started this set myself, Carlton was the recipient of my BB MB cards. However, I have sold some of the MB FB cards over the years...my recollection is that they have basically sold for twice what the same regular issue card would have sold for. The cards I sold were all ungraded, so there were no pops to worry about.

Here are some of the closed sales on ebay for 67 MB football:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sacat=0&_from=R40&_nkw=1967+topps+milton+bradley&LH_Complete=1&LH_Sold=1&rt=nc

For 68 MB baseball:

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_odkw=1967+topps+milton+bradley&LH_Sold=1&_osacat=0&_from=R40&LH_Complete=1&_trksid=p2045573.m570.l1313.TR1.TRC0.A0.H0.X1968+t opps+milton+bradley&_nkw=1968+topps+milton+bradley&_sacat=0

ALR-bishop
07-24-2014, 11:06 AM
I just finished updating my 1959 and 1960 sets to include cards 199-286 (1959) and cards 375- 440( 1960) in both gray and white back. Have not decided whether to do the same for 1953 ( 86-165 ), 1956 ( 1-180)....let alone 1952 (131-190)and 1954 ( 1-50)

I guess if SCD did not list the MBs as a separate set, but instead treated them like the above back differences, or the 62 greenie fronts, they would list the Cox and Brinkman cards as variations, like they do now, but drop the separate listing for the set and just note, like they do for the above set, that certain cards in the set can be found with different backs

But if they did that, they would have to contend with the different backs in the latter series. That would get pretty complicated. If the MBs are added to a master set list for 1968, would that mean you would have to list the alternate latter series backs as well :eek:

I think the 1991 Topps sets can be finished with 3 or 4 different backs. Including the Desert Shield set it would seem to have more variant cards than any other Topps set

steve B
07-25-2014, 06:53 AM
1991 backs.

Dark logo - not the full set. Only certain sheets
------------------------------------
no reaction to UV
Glows reddish orange
Regular logo - Full set
---------------------------------
No reaction to UV
Glows reddish orange


Misc backs - Not enough info to be sure how many there are.
----------------------------
Cardstock reacts to UV, typically a light bluish glow. - Possibly different cardstock, possibly a bad batch of paper, or contamination from something.

Ink reacts as a very dark red. - Requires a fairly powerful UV light to make it easily visible

Other contrast differences that are really hard to pin down. Most I attribute to plate wear or different levels of inking.


There are front UV differences as well. But I haven't studied them enough to say anything more than they exist. Like some have a clearcoat that reacts a very light green to UV.

So four backs for sure, possibly eight if the reactive paper comes all four ways, and up to 12 if the dark red comes with reactive paper and light or dark logos.

The desert shield should only come one way. But..........It's Topps so maybe not. (I only have a few, 3? 5? I forget)

Steve B

savedfrommyspokes
07-25-2014, 07:54 AM
The desert shield should only come one way. But..........It's Topps so maybe not. (I only have a few, 3? 5? I forget)



Steve, with many of the DS cards out there currently that are non-legit or "counterfeited", could the few you have that come up different be some of the non-legit DS cards?

If so, this could be a way to help distinguish between legit and some of the non-legit DS cards. With as few of the DS cards produced (5000 sets?), you would think the print run would have likely been on the same type of sheets.

ALR-bishop
07-25-2014, 01:26 PM
Did not mean to sidetrack the MB thread with my reference to 1991. Only was trying to point out the complications of making large chunks of back differences part of master sets

There is prior a thread on DS cards and ways of using backs to distinguish them in the post 80 section. I will try to dig it up

savedfrommyspokes
07-25-2014, 02:50 PM
Did not mean to sidetrack the MB thread with my reference to 1991. Only was trying to point out the complications of making large chunks of back differences part of master sets

There is prior a thread on DS cards and ways of using backs to distinguish them in the post 80 section. I will try to dig it up

Thanks for refocusing the discussion Al...I keep getting distracted thinking about your night in Lubbock.:)

steve B
07-25-2014, 06:19 PM
Sorry for the sidetrack.

I'll have to get out the couple MBs I have and post them as penance. :)

Steve B

Exhibitman
07-26-2014, 02:08 PM
Excellent info. Glad to see someone listed the white gutter miscuts as regular issue. I have a few of those and wondered whether they were MB or not. They were not on the CL but had that white edge.

Mark70Z
07-27-2014, 06:29 AM
I really like the look of the Seaver and the Gibson MB cards. Anyone have any good examples of those cards?

goheels
07-27-2014, 07:46 PM
Here are some fronts and backs, sorry for the cutoff scans

Mark70Z
07-28-2014, 05:07 PM
Thanks for the scans. I really like the look of those cards, especially with the yellow backs! For some reason I "really" like the cards with the All-Star Rookie trophy; it's just really cool to me.

What is the highest grades on those two?

goheels
07-29-2014, 04:34 AM
To date, there are 3 Gibson PSA 8s and 3 PSA 7s

One Seaver 8.5, two 8s, one 7.5, two 7s--also 2 9Qs (counts as a 7) and 2 8Qs (counts as a 6).

http://www.psacard.com/pop/Detail.aspx?c=95017

Grades are way below those of the regular set. Highest achievable baseball score as of today is 8.46 which I believe is the lowest post WWII score for Topps outside test and Venezuelan issues.

Rich Klein
07-29-2014, 01:00 PM
Waiting for Milton B. Lee to chime in here

ALR-bishop
07-29-2014, 04:07 PM
I guess that would bring a chime from someone else too :)

Mark70Z
08-01-2014, 07:46 PM
For those who are at the National; any MB's spotted? If not, post some more for viewing (please)...

goheels
08-01-2014, 09:13 PM
No National for me this year. I know Tom Agostino who collects these cards avidly is going--he emailed me last week. He only got a handful the last 2 Nationals, so we'll see. If they are there, Tom will find them.

In lieu of that, here's something different. I have concluded that some MB autographs are impossible to find, and I have looked all over. Moose (d 1976) and Willis (d 1977) may have never signed any. I have hit most of the major auto dealers for years and haven't had much luck.

Here are my deceased MB autograph cards, most signed before they passed on:

Mark70Z
08-02-2014, 06:56 AM
"Here are my deceased MB autograph cards, most signed before they passed on:"

The last sentence of your post stuck me as funny and when I think about it I just kept smiling. So, were some of these cards that you posted signed "after" their passing?!? Sorry, it's probably just my weird sense of humor.

Thanks so much for the autographed MB's; very nice!

By the way, have you had any more of your MB's graded?

goheels
08-02-2014, 07:41 AM
Knew it would expose me at some point.

I meant to say that I had gotten most of these autos while they were living, most were very generous autograph signers. A few I got posthumously.

I know you are a huge O's fan--I have never seen one of Belanger autographed (d 1998 of lung cancer). If you ever run across one I am highly interested.

My personal favorite is Dave Kocourek's card. He signed this for me before he developed severe dementia. Dave suffered with this for almost a decade before dying of it in 2013. I corresponded with his now widow for years. The common link is she was one of the major litigants against the NFL along with John Mackey's widow in the concussion settlement.

Two of my patients are former NFL players and as part of that class action lawsuit I sent their records to Ron Mix. (Fortunately they haven't had any memory issues despite playing over 10 years in the league). Ron got his law degree from USC I think while he was still playing. There is an army of lawyers on both sides but he is the main one. He graciously signed a couple of MBs for me and we spoke several times. He is a notoriously difficult autograph to obtain.

Mark70Z
08-02-2014, 12:47 PM
I may be a tad bit weird, but I really like those football cards with the slight showing of the '69 MB baseball cards. Really lets you know they are MB cards.

I'll keep an eye out on the auto Belanger. As far as I know he didn't sign too much anyway; so, he would be a toughie for sure and who knows if he ever signed any of the MB's. A lot of the autographs that are authenticated, with his signature, don't look too good to me. Maybe he just rushed through the autograph, but it doesn't look good. I think I personally only have one autograph of him and it's on an 8X10 picture with the O's infield included.

goheels
08-03-2014, 11:50 AM
1. Opinion sought on the PSA 8 Rex Mirich (football) MB now on ebay as a BIN. It is clearly NOT an MB as many have pointed out. PSA still makes mistakes with these cards although they are getting better.

2. Another asked about the BB, FB, Hot rod sets on Huggins and Scott that end soon--very unusual to see hot rod cards offered anywhere. Huggins and Scott seem to have more experience handling MBs than other auction houses, selling a Win a Card game every year or so and selling an occasional baseball or football subset. I would trust them as a solid auction house.

3. SCD grading MBs--none now, maybe in the future, they have been approached by at least two collectors on this. Beckett has only graded a few since PSA started.

savedfrommyspokes
08-03-2014, 12:36 PM
2. Another asked about the BB, FB, Hot rod sets on Huggins and Scott that end soon--very unusual to see hot rod cards offered anywhere. Huggins and Scott seem to have more experience handling MBs than other auction houses, selling a Win a Card game every year or so and selling an occasional baseball or football subset. I would trust them as a solid auction house.



I thought that those MB sets were part of your consignments Carlton, along with your 68 Topps holiday rack pack with the WL McCormick on the front

goheels
08-03-2014, 01:01 PM
I thought that those MB sets were part of your consignments Carlton, along with your 68 Topps holiday rack pack with the WL McCormick on the front

They are, I just didn't want to comment on my cards but answered the question talking about Bill Huggins who I think is a very trusty guy for the hobby. The guy who emailed me has a VG set of BB cards that he is thinking about selling down the road and wanted my opinion auction house vs ebay.

savedfrommyspokes
08-03-2014, 08:10 PM
They are very nice looking sets Carlton...I would have been shocked if these sets were not out of your collection. Out of curiosity, were there any specific factor(s) that compelled you to offer the BB, FB and HR sets separate of each other rather than offer them altogether as a single set, or was the decision left up to H&S?

goheels
08-03-2014, 08:36 PM
Larry, I figured some guys already had the baseball and would look to branch out to the FB or HR sets. Some collectors already have a BB set and would likely not want to buy those 77 cards. I thought there would be some collectors that knew nothing about this set before the SCD article and would want only baseball.

As one who loves collecting I think the best way to collect this set is to go to shows and card shops and check your own binders.

I have helped fellow collectors finish their MB sets or MB team sets over the years. One guy collected the Topps Rookie Trophy cards so he only wanted the Seaver, Reggie Smith, Carew cards. I always enjoy knowing what others like to collect.

If anyone is interested in something they could always PM me.

Mark70Z
08-04-2014, 05:50 PM
"If anyone is interested in something they could always PM me."

Could "always" use a centered "8" once you get that Brooksie "9"...:D

Mystery Card Shopper
12-05-2014, 03:17 PM
I have been collecting these cards (BB/FB/HR) for four plus years and have accumulated a large inventory(very difficult) of raw and PSA graded cards. I will be liquidating most of my inventory starting in January on Ebay. If any one is interested in purchasing cards directly from me prior, please email me at: finlcareer@aol.com Thank You, Tom....

cardinalcollector
12-13-2014, 07:01 PM
I am reviving this Milton Bradley thread to get comments on this current Ebay auction with "unknown Milton Bradley examples" and this comment by the seller:

I have concluded that due to the vast rarity of Milton Bradley's that the supposed "uncut sheet depiction" online is not 100% accurate nor is the believed checklist of 1968 Milton cards.

I'm not trying to dog the seller, just looking for feedback from other MB collectors. Personally I feel the set has been documented perfectly by Carlton Miller.

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Milton-Bradley-Topps-20-Card-Lot-EXMT-NRMT-Rare-Uncataloged-Examples-WOW-/291312731797?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item43d3978695

Randy

Exhibitman
12-13-2014, 07:59 PM
Nope, calling BS on that auction. The MB set is well documented because there have been enough unopened games hitting the market. Also well known was Topps' propensity to use the same stock in other series of the baseball set. I have several later series cards that look just like MB cards that are simply not part of the set. Topps did much the same thing in the 1968 FB set, which has distinct card stocks, a very white stock that went into pack products and two cream toned stocks that went into vending.

ALR-bishop
12-13-2014, 09:45 PM
Nope, calling BS on that auction. The MB set is well documented because there have been enough unopened games hitting the market. Also well known was Topps' propensity to use the same stock in other series of the baseball set. I have several later series cards that look just like MB cards that are simply not part of the set. Topps did much the same thing in the 1968 FB set, which has distinct card stocks, a very white stock that went into pack products and two cream toned stocks that went into vending.

+1. Carlton is the expert without doubt. Confused sellers or scammers have been trying to sell later series yellow backs as MBs forever. Anyone who collects both the 68 set and the MB set knows better.

horzverti
12-13-2014, 10:05 PM
I am reviving this Milton Bradley thread to get comments on this current Ebay auction with "unknown Milton Bradley examples" and this comment by the seller:

I have concluded that due to the vast rarity of Milton Bradley's that the supposed "uncut sheet depiction" online is not 100% accurate nor is the believed checklist of 1968 Milton cards.

I'm not trying to dog the seller, just looking for feedback from other MB collectors. Personally I feel the set has been documented perfectly by Carlton Miller.

Link: http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Milton-Bradley-Topps-20-Card-Lot-EXMT-NRMT-Rare-Uncataloged-Examples-WOW-/291312731797?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item43d3978695

Randy

A few weeks ago the seller and I had a conversation about these cards through eBay messages. He seems like a nice guy and he really feels that he has discovered "new" MBs, but he hasn't. He shows the backs of known MB cards numbers on the left half of his first image of the backs of the cards. The cards that he feels are previously unknown MBs are on the right. Given the light source from the left, the cards on the left are more brightly lit than the cards on the right side, giving the appearance of MBs with more yellow card backs. I am not sure the cards on the left are MBs at all. They are most likely regular issue cards which just appear more yellow because of the lighting. If you look at his other photos of the card backs where the cards are rearranged, you'll notice that correct MB card numbers are actually more gold (not yellow at all) than his "new discovery" cards. Probably no MBs in entire lot. I politely suggested that he pull the auction, but he must have missed that part of my message. ;)

ALR-bishop
12-14-2014, 07:56 AM
Curt--I also had an offline conversation with him. Maybe he is just another confused seller. He is certainly not the first to try selling later series 68 cards as MBs. Although you would think if you were going to announce a new previously unknown group of MBs you would first research the set . I sent him a link to this article

http://r.search.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0LEVv3Io41UVS0AbTgPxQt.;_ylu=X3oDMTByMG04Z2o 2BHNlYwNzcgRwb3MDMQRjb2xvA2JmMQR2dGlkAw--/RV=2/RE=1418597448/RO=10/RU=http%3a%2f%2fwww.sportscollectorsdigest.com%2ff eatured%2fa-tale-of-the-yellow-back-1968-milton-bradley-set/RK=0/RS=mzPNYdg0jj0JVnCBFtSyRiouMV0-

If he leaves them up as is, he is something other than confused

goheels
12-14-2014, 09:15 PM
That's all there is, folks. Took me about two years to fully piece all the unique ends together. Each of the borders has a unique pattern. The BB mesh are very difficult to tell apart. It took an awful lot of off centered cards with borders to do this.

Later this week I am shipping close to 800 cards to PSA, both MBs and regular 67 FB and 68 BB for permament/temporary loan for their research purposes. Most of what I am sending MB wise are cards with considerable borders. I am sending them my more spectacular miscuts as well.

Some of my fellow MB collectors are having difficulty getting MBs graded as such. This should help that out. PSA is balking at some of the darker yellow MBs.

I have noted before that about 60% of MBs look a little darker than the 40% that are a brighter yellow. All are clearly distinct from the regular issue. It has taken a while, but PSA has seemed receptive to my input.

I also let them know that Probstein's current auction with a signed Cleon Jones autograph is not an MB.

There has been enough data on this board to note that only 132 MBs exist. I have personally opened six games (not counting the one I had as a kid) and out of the 600 or so cards from that one would expect 4.58 of each card (600/132). I have a few cards with 3, a couple with 7, mostly though 4 or 5 of each card.

Carlton

cardinalcollector
12-16-2014, 07:03 PM
Carlton, I have been a fan of Milton Bradleys since 1968 when my Dad bought the game for me. Bob Gibson was my favorite player and I was a thrilled 7 year old when I found him in the Win-a-card game.

I was a fan of MBs long before they showed up in the price guides. Thanks for your research and "legitimizing" this important issue.

Randy Trierweiler

Exhibitman
05-27-2015, 03:08 PM
I was looking through my cards today and realized that I had a Flood MB sitting there. Gotta pay attention!

Harliduck
05-28-2015, 12:17 PM
Just read the whole thread, found it all super cool. Went and checked on my complete 68 set and only found one with a completely different colored back, and I see this card on the sheet example. Is this a MB card? I am hoping I have at least one to represent in my set...:)


http://i.onfinite.com/wVzjb17Hd.jpg


http://i.onfinite.com/8R6lb17Hd.jpg


Thanks for any comments. Again, the back completely stands out as a different color of yellow...

Exhibitman
05-28-2015, 12:41 PM
Well the top border is consistent with the sheet shown on the first page.

JollyElm
05-28-2015, 03:34 PM
Just read the whole thread, found it all super cool. Went and checked on my complete 68 set and only found one with a completely different colored back, and I see this card on the sheet example. Is this a MB card? I am hoping I have at least one to represent in my set...:)


http://i.onfinite.com/wVzjb17Hd.jpg


http://i.onfinite.com/8R6lb17Hd.jpg


Thanks for any comments. Again, the back completely stands out as a different color of yellow...

Whenever you post a possible MB card, it's a must that you post a 'regular' 1968 Topps card beside it, so the back color differences will jump out and be easily seen by whoever is viewing the thread. That is the clearest indicator for this set. When a card is posted by its lonesome, the yellow/gold/orange aspects of it are hard to determine for sure.

But with the white border at top and your comments on the obvious color differences, it definitely looks like you have an MB.

GoldenAge50s
05-28-2015, 06:11 PM
Fascinating subject! I just had to go thru my '68's & found just 5 that I'm sure are MB's

Here is what I have that I didn't know I had!

ALR-bishop
05-29-2015, 07:08 AM
Oh my gosh Fred, you and Adam are closet MBs :)

Exhibitman
05-29-2015, 11:13 AM
Does anyone have scans of uncut sheets of 1968 Topps series 1 and 2 baseball? That might help answer questions about whether or not a card is an MB card when it shows white on a top or bottom edge. If it is not a border or gutter card on a regular sheet it should not have any white edges.

Mystery Card Shopper
11-19-2015, 04:08 PM
Check the Buy/Sell section if you are looking to purchase any 1968 Topps Milton Bradley cards. Thank You.

Mystery Card Shopper
01-17-2016, 07:56 AM
Please check the B/S/T section as I'm selling 1968 Topps Milton Bradley PSA and raw Baseball and Football Cards.

AFLfan
08-18-2016, 01:12 PM
Hi All. I am new to this site, and came here looking for info/confirmation on Milton Bradley cards.

I guess that I had always known about the 1967 Milton Bradley football cards, but I'd never really learned anything about them. I recall reading that you could tell the difference between '67 Topps and '67 Milton Bradley by a strip of brown on the card front top or bottom, which denoted that it was a Milton Bradley.

I am a collector of autographed AFL cards, and yesterday I was scrolling through ebay and saw an autographed '67 Paul Lowe with the brown strip on the bottom. The guy only wanted $7, so I bought it without really thinking about it. Then I get home and do a bit of reading about '67 Milton Bradley, and I see that the real way to tell the difference between the sets is that the Milton Bradleys have a stronger yellow color on the card back.

I went and looked through my signed '67 set, and lo and behold, I think I have 8 Milton Bradleys that I thought were Topps. Now it looks like I have to replace the Milton Bradleys in my set with Topps cards. I've already got dupes of a few of them, so those slots are already full, but replacing a signed '67 Joe Namath is a bummer.

But can someone with more knowledge than I confirm that these cards are Milton Bradleys and not Topps? Thank you.

I guess on a positive note I'm nearly a third of the way through a signed '67 Milton Bradley set.

goheels
08-18-2016, 01:19 PM
Those are all MB cards, for sure. The autographs look great!

ALR-bishop
08-18-2016, 01:57 PM
I think you are good to go ALFfan. No one knows more about these than Carlton

AFLfan
08-18-2016, 02:02 PM
Thank you! Carlton and I have already been sending messages back and forth. It's kind of funny (or sad, depending) that the crappy $7 purchase I made yesterday just made my signed 1967 Topps set incomplete, and started a tough new project (signed Milton Bradley football). I should stay away from ebay. :(

tschock
08-18-2016, 04:51 PM
I picked these up at the National for less than $1 / card out of a 5000 count box of '67s-'69s. 80 cards in all. Many of these are EXMT and better.

Carlton, I'm in Durham as well. I wonder where that falls in the list of "most MB collectors per capita"?

goheels
08-18-2016, 05:03 PM
My second son is a pretty ravenous collector. That makes now at least 3 in the Bull City.

There were a decent number of games that found their way to the Old North State. Some of my childhood buddies from Charlotte still have their game boards. I bought out a very nice collection a few months ago from a long time collector in central NC.

Nice cards from the National. Those white letter 69s are screamers.

LuckyLarry
08-19-2016, 05:05 AM
Nothing like being at a card show with time to kill, and thumbing through stacks of 1968 Topps baseball cards and 1967 Topps football cards, and finding MBs. Of course I've never come across a hoard like Taylor picked up, but thanks to his generosity, a couple of these now reside in my collection:)
I usually have a difficult time picking out the baseball cards, and I like to see the white stripe on the border to confirm. The football cards almost always show some of the "burlap" from the baseball cards. Thankfully there is no doubt when you come across MB Hot Rod cards, compared to the 1968 regular issue Hot Rod cards
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w185/larrytipton/Scan_8.jpeg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/larrytipton/media/Scan_8.jpeg.html)

Most of my MB Hot Rod cards show some of the "burlap" from the baseball cards
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w185/larrytipton/Scan_20.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/larrytipton/media/Scan_20.jpg.html)

ALR-bishop
08-19-2016, 08:38 AM
You MB guys posting cars and football guys in here need to be reported ;)

Before you know it Carlton will be posting scans of the game boxes themselves

Leon
08-19-2016, 09:05 AM
Duly noted....carry on :)

You MB guys posting cars and football guys in here need to be reported ;)

Before you know it Carlton will be posting scans of the game boxes themselves

toppcat
08-19-2016, 01:11 PM
Larry-you have the 1964 (gray/pink) and 1968 Hot Rods (white/pink) both showing in case you didn't notice.

LuckyLarry
08-19-2016, 01:40 PM
Hi Dave I did not know this information. All the "Sport Americana Price Guide #4" says is "the backs are printed in a variety of colors (pink, yellow, brown etc.)

At one time I did not even know what the yellow backs were:D I have a pretty good pile of these, most are the (gray/pink).

They must be "late" '64 because some of the cards mention 1965 events/models?

Larry
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w185/larrytipton/Scan_21.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/larrytipton/media/Scan_21.jpg.html)
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w185/larrytipton/Scan%201_17.jpg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/larrytipton/media/Scan%201_17.jpg.html)
Larry-you have the 1964 (gray/pink) and 1968 Hot Rods (white/pink) both showing in case you didn't notice.

goheels
08-19-2016, 08:15 PM
I know this isn't a non-sport board, but I do want to correct the above. There were 4 hot rod sets issued, according to the Wrapper, a non sport newsletter I used to get. The 1964 hot rods were pink on gray stock, 66 cards. They were repeated in 1966 or so, with 44 cards that were pink on white stock. A third series was 1967 with orange backs, I don't have any but I have seen them. Finally, the 22 cards that came with the 1968 MB set were all yellow backs.

The backs of the 68 hot rod cards are very relevant to the 68 MB baseball cards. All yellow back hot rod cards are MB cards, period. I have about 500 total hot rod cards, and I would guess that 300 are the darker yellow (think French's mustard) and 200 are lighter yellow (lemon yellow). You can see that in some of the cards posted above. The same 60/40 percentage holds of course for the football and baseball cards as you would expect since The FB cards are also very obvious, since the regular 68 FB stock is more orange than the 68 BB stock in the first 2 series.

PSA has gotten stuck on the lighter yellow vs the darker yellow cards, to an extent. They have begun grading the darker yellow again.

LuckyLarry
08-20-2016, 06:08 AM
I know this isn't a non-sport board, but I do want to correct the above. There were 4 hot rod sets issued, according to the Wrapper, a non sport newsletter I used to get. The 1964 hot rods were pink on gray stock, 66 cards. They were repeated in 1966 or so, with 44 cards that were pink on white stock. A third series was 1967 with orange backs, I don't have any but I have seen them. Finally, the 22 cards that came with the 1968 MB set were all yellow backs.
Thanks for the reply Carlton but it looks like there might have been at least one additional hot rod set issued "pink on cream stock"? All of my "pink on white" or "pink on cream" cards are numbered 44 and below with the exception of this "pink on cream" numbered #61?

After further review:
1964 Topps Hot-Rods "pink on gray" numbered 1-66
1966-1970 (?) Topps Hot-Rods re-issued "pink on white" or "pink on cream" 44 cards issued and skip numbered
1968 Topps Hot-Rods (Milton Bradley) "yellow on cream" 22 cards and skip-numbered
http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w185/larrytipton/Scan_10.jpeg (http://s176.photobucket.com/user/larrytipton/media/Scan_10.jpeg.html)

goheels
08-20-2016, 08:43 AM
I think (could be mistaken) that the pink on cream and pink on white are the same series. I can't find the Wrapper Issue #117 that documented this. The numbers in that second HR set are 1-33 plus 11 more skip numbered.

In the pink on white/cream I have all #1-33 except for #29.

I have #36, 38, 41, 43, 50, 58, 60, 61, 63--that's 9 of the 11 that would be in the production row.

Looks like I have 3 to go.:)

toppcat
08-20-2016, 12:36 PM
I think (could be mistaken) that the pink on cream and pink on white are the same series. I can't find the Wrapper Issue #117 that documented this. The numbers in that second HR set are 1-33 plus 11 more skip numbered.

In the pink on white/cream I have all #1-33 except for #29.

I have #36, 38, 41, 43, 50, 58, 60, 61, 63--that's 9 of the 11 that would be in the production row.

Looks like I have 3 to go.:)

Pink/cream and pink/white should be the same issue, just different stock. For some reason Topps often had a brilliant white stock they used for some runs that never fades and others used less stable stock that fades a little over time.

DBesse27
08-21-2016, 03:15 PM
When in doubt about MB's just ask BobbiW. I think he's a member here.

ALR-bishop
08-21-2016, 03:20 PM
Trouble maker :)

toppcat
08-22-2016, 04:32 PM
I have that Wrapper issue. The article was by Ron Wilson:

Pink/gray is the only back all 66 cards appear with

Pin/white and Pink/tan=44 cards. As noted above I believe these are the same issue.

His information on Win A Card is inaccurate, he's short cards in his counts and states there were two games, one in 1969, one in 1970.

Email me at dsh46 at aol dot com for a scan of the article.

goheels
08-22-2016, 10:43 PM
In my SCD article somewhere in this thread is a picture of the game from the Milton Bradley "playbook" for 1968--a catalog of all their toys for the year. This catalog was published prior to the International Toy Fair in February 1968. I obtained this from Milton Bradley headquarters many, many years ago. MB salesmen carried this catalog when they went to five and dime stores trying to get orders for toys. Merchants ordered directly from the salesmen, not MB headquarters.

The side of the Win a Card game box says copyright applied for; inside the lid it states copyright 1968. The actual copyright was finally approved a year later, in April 1969. I checked all 5 of my game boxes, they all say the same thing. I will check with my brothers and buddies in Charlotte on their game boxes but I don't think I will find a different date. Recall that production was very limited, and the game was a bust in terms of sales.

More memorably, I remember how I felt in the summer of 1968 when I finally got three Hank Aarons. There is absolutely no evidence that this game came out in 1969 or 1970.

horzverti
08-23-2016, 09:21 PM
I checked the copyright dates on my MB game boxes. They read copyright 1968 both on the inside (beneath rules print) and outside (side) of the top covers. It is interesting that I have one game box cover which does not read "Patent Applied For" on the outside side. I would think that they would all be exactly the same. I can only assume the printing of (or lack of) the patent text varied between production runs. Thanks for prompting me to check them out Carlton.
Love the MBs!

ncinin
08-23-2016, 10:22 PM
In my SCD article somewhere in this thread is a picture of the game from the Milton Bradley "playbook" for 1968--a catalog of all their toys for the year. This catalog was published prior to the International Toy Fair in February 1968. I obtained this from Milton Bradley headquarters many, many years ago. MB salesmen carried this catalog when they went to five and dime stores trying to get orders for toys. Merchants ordered directly from the salesmen, not MB headquarters.

The side of the Win a Card game box says copyright applied for; inside the lid it states copyright 1968. The actual copyright was finally approved a year later, in April 1969. I checked all 5 of my game boxes, they all say the same thing. I will check with my brothers and buddies in Charlotte on their game boxes but I don't think I will find a different date. Recall that production was very limited, and the game was a bust in terms of sales.

More memorably, I remember how I felt in the summer of 1968 when I finally got three Hank Aarons. There is absolutely no evidence that this game came out in 1969 or 1970.

You mention your brothers and buddies in Charlotte, an aunt bought me a MB game as a gift in 1968. I can not recall if it was a birthday or Christmas present. Were sales of these games more prevalent in the Charlotte area than other parts of the country?

goheels
08-23-2016, 10:50 PM
New England had the most games for sure. In North Carolina there were games at Mack's and Clark's five and dime stores. I think they were regional and not national stores. There were a lot of cards around Tidewater. I lived there a few years as a young Navy doc and bought a lot of MBs in the late 80s from guys selling cards out of their garage. Lots of games across the Midwest--Missouri, lower Illinois, Iowa--nicest single game I ever got was from Iowa. This game was nationally distributed and I know of games from the western Canadian provinces.

I have personally seen MBs in card shops in at least 20 states. Hard to find vintage card shops these days--sigh.

ALR-bishop
08-24-2016, 08:52 AM
I still have my Sonar Sub Hunt game

goheels
08-24-2016, 10:05 AM
I still have my Sonar Sub Hunt game
With cards of submariners Ted Abernathy and Dan Quisenberry?