Business question about vintage baseball cards

[Mdmtx]

Hello all,

I meant to post this in the main cards forum, but I failed!! Anyway, please give me your input, it will be greatly appreciated.

I didn't see a forum that was more appropriate, but please move if this is not the right place.

I am considering opening a baseball card store that would have a heavy emphasis on vintage cards. I had a store back in the mid 80's and had mixed success.

My question is this: A store obviously can't compete with online sites for selection or price. Would YOU be willing to pay a 10-20% premium for the things you seek to buy local?

I guess this is a similar conversation as the Japanese autos or Walmart or any business that is not local. If the masses are unwilling to support a local business, it is doomed before it begins.

I am getting tired in my career and am looking for a direction to steer my life. This store would not be to get rich, but rather a place to spend enjoyable time.However, every business must turn a profit or have a generous benefactor to keep the doors open.

Please elaborate with your thoughts.

Mark

[jcmtiger]

I would say that it would be tough to make a living with just a store. You would have to add an ebay store to make it. When I started collecting in the 70's and 80's I knew several store owners and they were not getting rich. The way you made money in those days was searching private collections, flea markets and antique stores. Those days are over, so buying collections or whatever are not a deal now. If you keep up with the hobby, you will see many new auction sites starting. That is the new way to make a living in this hobby. .

Anyway, Good Luck if you try.

Joe

[Mdmtx]

Joe,

I appreciate the feedback. I am hopeful that the collectors of today would be happy to have to have a store in their neighborhood with an owner would spend his hours being the lackey of the customers i.e.searching the online ads, craigslist, flea markets etc... for additions to their collection(s). All the while this person would understand that he or she could purchase cheaper, but would take their time. Time is the only thing in the world you can not replace and I am still unsure if this service of saving time to folks really has a value of any significance. I truly appreciate any and all feedback.

Mark

[drcy]

I think people would be willing to pay a reasonable percentage more when they buy it in person, as it is something they get to inspect in person. It's always chance on what you'll get in the mail when you order online.

[Mdmtx]

Thanks for the feedback DRCY. I agree with you, that is why I see value in this proposition. I just wonder if we are the minority....

Mark

[Deertick]

Mark,
As you already have experience with this you already know that your venture would be entirely dependent on your overhead. IF you were able to obtain a reasonable lease, and IF your cost of customer acquisition is low, and IF you are able to acquire inventory with a high margin, THEN you may have a shot at a decent job. None of the IF's are particularly easy.
You won't get rich, but you may be happier. As the market and technology have changed drastically in the past few decades, a strong and effective online presence would be mandatory regardless.

I too am looking for options (not a card store). I wish the best of luck to both of us!

[Mdmtx]

Deertick,
I too am the son of a sailor and love your signature. Thanks for the feedback!!!

Mark

[barrysloate]

It's going to be hard to keep adding fresh inventory of vintage baseball cards on a regular basis. And if you pay top dollar for them at auction and then mark them up 20%, you might have trouble selling them. A store sounds like a great idea but it will be a challenge to make it succeed. Wish you luck if you go through with it.

[Cfern023]

Go the online store route- anything anyone wants these days they heck online for it. If the price is the same, they go to the brick and mortar.

Undercut the local card shops by not having a store front. Make a home office, scan each card you want to sell that's high end / star players.

Set up at card shows throughout your region, buying a table for x amount of dollars. I know here in South Florida we have a Dania Beach card show every month. My the biggest event- but your name and basic inventory structure gets some face time with the locals. Business cards and a great personality will go a lot farther than hanging out and goings broke in a dying medium for collectors.

Maybe try to set up contracts with Topps or other companies to presell / stock cases of product of new releases to sell on eBay.

A storefront should only be used these days as a warehouse / office/ sales counter for a well established online presence these days.

Kind of hard to do, but a hobby at night while you work your 9-5 can grow in a few years to a full time job with some nurturing and sound decisions.

As a card collector, I buy strictly online and pass by shows once a year when I have some money burning a hole in my pocket and I want some supplies (another idea for you).

Everyone online undercuts the brick and mortars by atleast 50-60% down here. Most store look like relics from a forgotten decade or when stocked with cool inventory an expensive auction house. Most autographed photos in one store down here are faded because of sun damage- and they still want full price.

Pack pulled game used cards from the 2007 season are priced at $35 bucks and sell online for 99 cents.

Vintage cards have such a high premium for "being old" eventually he'll need to display them in a ziplock bag for their degraded ashes when they never sell.

Maybe offer on various online forums to buy game used cards and rare inserts for .50 cents to $1 a card sight unseen.

In short-
keep your day job, (easiest to say for me, hard for you to want to do)
maker the idea a hobby- and maybe even claim the loss on taxes
develop a strong online presence,
set up at multiple card shows and get your face/ stock out there
Sell supplies
Sell cases/ boxes of big current releases online
Look into drop shipping too- might help with modern product sales.

And enjoy yourself. No one is going to get rich these days in this hobby, but you can make a modest living and enjoy it.

Ps: sorry for all the typos and spelling/ grammar mistakes. Didn't think I'd type this much on my iPhone. GoodLuck with whatever you choose and just try to be happy. You don't have to listen to this 27 year old kid, but hopefully I have you some ideas.

[vintagesportscollector]

I would be willing, IF it was ONLY a 10-20% premium I saw in the store. I recently got into cards from years in memorabilia only, and I have yet to come across any brick-mortar store that only had a premium that low. I would think you would need to price higher to pay the bills, unless you can move very very high volume. Best of luck with whatever you pursue.

[4815162342]

http://youtu.be/xlA9bNk3b5Q

[Mdmtx]

Daryl,

Very funny!! But next time don't beat around the bush. Let me know how you really feel!!!

Mark

[MooseDog]

I opened a small general consignment shop in a downtown area of a Northern California (Bay Area) town that was recently listed as #1 based on per-capita income and despite a great lease and low expenses I have not been able to make it and am closing after 2 1/2 years of futility.

Granted, I started with one foot in the grave by not having enough capital (retail requires at least access to large amounts of cash) and hanging on much too long (I don't have many options - companies around here don't hire self employed people).

Brick and mortar retail is dead. Even established retail stores here have noted sales are trending down, and we're talking about the 1% who make up a large part of the population here.

If you have a lot of money you can afford to lose (don't touch any pensions or IRAs for startup capital), and you figure you can make your sales goals by selling 80% online and 20% in the retail store, you can probably make it. But don't count on making a high five figure salary on walk-in sales. Be VERY conservative with your estimates though. Running your own business can be a big headache and time sink, but nothing beats being your own boss.

[Runscott]

Ten years ago all you needed was knowledge and money. You bought inventory and you sold it. Because there are now loads of wealthy people buying the large lots at retail or more, just to get a few cards, then selling the rest at a loss, you now have to be connected to get inventory (e.g-established presence as a dealer). That may be a hurdle for you, as it has been for me, along with the issues others have cited regarding the feasibility of brick-and-mortar.

A physical shop will actually help my business, and that's what I'm looking to do - the plan is to make most of my money through the internet and a coffee shop, but the antique/memorabilia area won't take up much room and will bring me walk-in inventory opportunities. I also plan to put it in an old house that is zoned so that I can live in it as well, and I'll be located in a downtown area in a small town so that I can purchase the property, as opposed to leasing. Sounds weird, but to make money in this business you have to get creative.

[Lordstan]

Ten years ago all you needed was knowledge and money. You bought inventory and you sold it. Because there are now loads of wealthy people buying the large lots at retail or more, just to get a few cards, then selling the rest at a loss, you now have to be connected to get inventory (e.g-established presence as a dealer). That may be a hurdle for you, as it has been for me, along with the issues others have cited regarding the feasibility of brick-and-mortar.

A physical shop will actually help my business, and that's what I'm looking to do - the plan is to make most of my money through the internet and a coffee shop, but the antique/memorabilia area won't take up much room and will bring me walk-in inventory opportunities. I also plan to put it in an old house that is zoned so that I can live in it as well, and I'll be located in a downtown area in a small town so that I can purchase the property, as opposed to leasing. Sounds weird, but to make money in this business you have to get creative.

Too bad you're not in this part of the country. It sounds like a nice place to go hang out and talk sports and stuff.

[Runscott]

Too bad you're not in this part of the country. It sounds like a nice place to go hang out and talk sports and stuff.

The goal is to get a place where, even if I make no profit on either memorabilia or coffee, the mortgage is still reasonable as a living space. It probably would be a good place to hang out and talk sports, but the area I'm looking at won't have many collectors - it will be locals drinking coffee and tourists who hopefully have too much money in their pockets.

[Lordstan]

The goal is to get a place where, even if I make no profit on either memorabilia or coffee, the mortgage is still reasonable as a living space. It probably would be a good place to hang out and talk sports, but the area I'm looking at won't have many collectors - it will be locals drinking coffee and tourists who hopefully have too much money in their pockets.

Gotcha.
Still, It would be nice to have a place like that here. No good card shops in my area. It's too bad, something has definitely been lost.

[Bestdj777]

I go to a brick-and-mortar card shop in NYC at least once a month. I've never purchased a card--they have only had one card I wanted but were only selling it as part of a set. I know that, personally, I would never pay more for a card in a store than I could purchase it for online. Now, if they had something I did want and couldn't find elsewhere, I'd certainly pay the price for it.

Where card shops do get my business is in selling supplies. Whenever I get a card, I go to the store and get a toploader for it. I don't like buying them in bulk and it is convenient and cheaper to get online instead.

Good luck in whatever you decide to do.


Chris

[drcy]

Where I live there was a shop attached to a house. Except I never realized there was the house half, until I looked around the fence.

If you live there and are already dealing online in the stuff you are selling, a shop might be reasonable.

I think vintage baseball cards is too narrow to run a store on its own. In fact, I'm sure it is. But if a shop of some sort is used in addition to your already successful online business, I could see that. If you're already going to be there sorting and cataloging cards for your online business, I can see how it would make sense to allow someone to walk in through the door and buy something in person.

Starting a business for purely sentimental reasons rarely works. It has to be business smart too. I only see a physical shop as viable if you're already doing very well selling online and the physical shop is just an addition to your already successful busness, or really anticipate having it as a coffee shop.

For most people, owning a baseball card shop really is just a quaint sentimental idea from childhood that has nothing to do with business sense. I'm sure many women have also always wanted to own a pony too. Amazon started selling books, because Jeff Bezos coldly calculated books was the best product to sell online. It was irrelevant whether or not he was a bookworm.

But, as I said, I can see instances where opening up a physical shop could make business sense. If you own a unopened box wholesale distribution business, I can see how opening up a small retail shop at the site could make sense. You could not only sell smaller portions to the locals, but it could serve as local advertising to your wholesale side. Similarly, a small shop could help get the word out to locals about your online eBay and website selling. Even for locals who prefer to shop online, it would still be cool to see the items in person and to pick them up in person.

[steve B]

I think the store part really depends on your area and location.

Overall success depends on a lot of things.


The stamp +coin guy I go to also does other collectibles, and always had interesting advice.

One of the first was that you don't have a store to sell, you have a store to buy. That's changing, but at the time many people were uncomfortable selling in their home, and online or by phone just didn't work well for anyone. Online sales have changes a lot, but the store is still a benefit on the buying end.

The other advice he had was that you can do well with anything if you can buy it right.
Along with having the ability and mindset to move it along quickly.


The shops I see that are still around have figured out how to use all of the three main venues. The shop, the internet , and shows.

My local card shop looks like a typical one. Mostly new stuff, and a lot of that is boxes and packs. They also carry a good selection of supplies and memorabilia like pennants. (Plus autographs and toys and some soda and candy)

But they have vintage. They usually have a handful of graded T205s or T206s under the counter. Apparently they have a regular customer who buys them. The pricing is always a bit more than I like, but not silly.
They're very good at using the internet, Ebay now, and some dealer to dealer wholesale thing at one point. When Curtis Martin signed with the Jets they moved their entire inventory in one sale to a dealer in northern NJ. Great for both sides, they cleared out what had just become dead inventory and the NJ guy got an instant inventory of saleable stuff.

The stamp guy does more business before a show opens than he does during the show. Watching him work was amazing. One box was full of envelopes full of stuff that got taken to particular dealers and simply handed off. Second lap of the room was collecting the money. All of it stuff that was turned fairly quickly for a small profit. Probably did $3K during the hour while I was setting up his stuff. Not sure about net, some items he does insanely well with - Like 10-20X cost others maybe only 1-2% it all works out in the end.


So if you're in an area with a good amount of stuff to buy the store would make more sense.
The rest depends on how you do things.

Steve B

[drcy]

I've joked about the antique furniture dealer who furnishes his home with the furniture he sells. Part of his profits is he saves all the money on furnishing his home.

There's a business model for you.

[Leon]

The goal is to get a place where, even if I make no profit on either memorabilia or coffee, the mortgage is still reasonable as a living space. It probably would be a good place to hang out and talk sports, but the area I'm looking at won't have many collectors - it will be locals drinking coffee and tourists who hopefully have too much money in their pockets.

I think you have a great idea. The only way to make it in retail is minimize your overhead (as you are amortizing it well) and also have other streams of revenue. I am a huge advocate of this approach as it limits your exposure somewhat, to any one thing. I just got out of 2 retail restaurants after 9 yrs and don't think I would want to deal with a brick and mortar anything unless it was on my conditions, and it would have to cost virtually nothing (somehow)...but as you are doing. You have very little downside.

[Runscott]

I think you have a great idea. The only way to make it in retail is minimize your overhead (as you are amortizing it well) and also have other streams of revenue. I am a huge advocate of this approach as it limits your exposure somewhat, to any one thing. I just got out of 2 retail restaurants after 9 yrs and don't think I would want to deal with a brick and mortar anything unless it was on my conditions, and it would have to cost virtually nothing (somehow)...but as you are doing. You have very little downside.

Thanks for the encouragement Leon - still trying to get my girlfriend to see it that way.