Wow. E121 rarities.

[Brian Van Horn]

E121 O'Leary for over $1600.00 and the E121 series of 80 Baker for $1351.56:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FRANK-BAKER-1921-E121-AMERICAN-CARAMEL-SERIES-80-GRADED-PSA-VG-EX-4-22748838-/201113986476?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=%252F3YMatUwpqoeKwyAJIg%252BumM6zlg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[itjclarke]

I was watching that Baker and wondering if there was some variation I'd maybe missed... or if it was the back type? Seemed high to me, but I'm nowhere near as knowledgable on the caramel sets as others on here, so usually figure someone saw something that I didn't.

[kmac32]

We now know that it exists as before it was doubted if it did. The normal card says J Franklin Baker.

[old-baseball]

The Baker card was a variation (Frank Baker rather than the much more common J. Franklin Baker). The O'Leary is a new card. Both the first examples that I've seen from this set. The reverses on each are the much rarer Type 3.

[Chesbro41]

The O Leary 80 is a mythical card to E121 collectors. Might be one of a kind.

[scooter729]

Brian, it might make sense to title the thread something more descriptive than "Wow", so that someone searching for E121 info (or someone who could contribute to the thread) would be more likely to click on it.

"Wow" just strikes me as something which could just be a train wreck coming (of course, I clicked on it, so who knows why I did)....

Just my .02....

Scott

[Brian Van Horn]

Brian, it might make sense to title the thread something more descriptive than "Wow", so that someone searching for E121 info (or someone who could contribute to the thread) would be more likely to click on it.

"Wow" just strikes me as something which could just be a train wreck coming (of course, I clicked on it, so who knows why I did)....

Just my .02....

Scott

Duly noted and edited.

[kmac32]

Some of these were going for some fairly big numbers. My bids for the most part didn't even make it to the show. Guess I brought a peashooter to a gun fight. Did score a new back type for me on the Elmer Miller card although it went for a little more than I thought it would.

[rhettyeakley]

Pretty strong bids on the rarities, the Baker was already known to exist with a few known copies with the type 2 back so that one went for more than I thought, I was one of the runner-ups on the O'leary which is a new addition to the checklist, the Gaston went for a relative bargain as that was only the second known example to surface of that card with a series of 80 back.

[sreader3]

Now that O'Leary E121-80 Type 3 has surfaced, is there a realistic chance we will someday see the other missing Koester Bread cards e.g Burkett with an E121-80 Type 3 back? Not sure why N.Y. Coach O'Leary would be printed but not N.Y. Coach Burkett.

[VoodooChild]

I won the Baker. I had some $ put aside in case those cards ever surfaced. I only had enough for one and thought the O'Leary would go for over 2K. I'm kicking myself over the Gaston, but I just couldn't afford it too.

My hope is that the Baker is the only one with the type 3 back. Can anybody confirm? I decided to go all-in on him since he's the only HOFer of the rare few.

There were deals to be had with the other toughies. Wish I could've got them all! There's still some left through Tuesday. Good luck if any of you guys are bidding!

[Brian Van Horn]

Jason,

Congratulations!

[kmac32]

I won the Baker. I had some $ put aside in case those cards ever surfaced. I only had enough for one and thought the O'Leary would go for over 2K. I'm kicking myself over the Gaston, but I just couldn't afford it too.

My hope is that the Baker is the only one with the type 3 back. Can anybody confirm? I decided to go all-in on him since he's the only HOFer of the rare few.

There were deals to be had with the other toughies. Wish I could've got them all! There's still some left through Tuesday. Good luck if any of you guys are bidding!

I was 1 for 5 out of my auctions, congrats on your pick up.

[VoodooChild]

Thanks guys.

Does anybody know the seller? Is he a board member? I'd love to know the story. Most of the cards are the Type 3 back including tough and super rare cards. Plus the O'Leary! I wonder if that was his collection or some sort of find at an estate sale or something like that.

[kmac32]

It was his collection that he had collected since 1989. I had some correspondence with him about some scans and he told me. Seemed like a nice guy. I do not believe he is a board member.

[old-baseball]

I tried to quiz the guy on where the cards came from but he didn't say much other than he bought the entire group from one individual. I will admit that I made an offer to him for the O'Leary and Gaston cards (that wasn't much less than the total I won them for!:)) and he had a sense that these were something special. In his words he had "many" offers and inquiries.

Jason - congrats on the Baker. Rhett says there are others so I'm sure that's the case but that's the first I've seen.

Ken - glad you got another version of Miller

[old-baseball]

Ken - unless I misunderstood him I thought he had just purchased them. Maybe he bought the group back in 1989.

[kmac32]

I tried to quiz the guy on where the cards came from but he didn't say much other than he bought the entire group from one individual. I will admit that I made an offer to him for the O'Leary and Gaston cards (that wasn't much less than the total I won them for!:)) and he had a sense that these were something special. In his words he had "many" offers and inquiries.

Jason - congrats on the Baker. Rhett says there are others so I'm sure that's the case but that's the first I've seen.

Ken - glad you got another version of Miller

Kevin,

When it comes to Miller, I'm all in as you well know. I have the one that ends in "eighty" in SGC 50 and the one I won tonight. Now to get him slabbed when he arrives to match the rest of the set and variations. :-)

[sreader3]

I was happy to win the McGraw Type 3 PSA 5 last night at what I thought would be a fair price for a Type 1. Was blown out of the water on O'Leary and the other rarities tonight. I wish I had gone higher on Hoyt.

[kmac32]

I was happy to win the McGraw Type 3 PSA 5 last night at what I thought would be a fair price for a Type 1. Was blown out of the water on O'Leary and the other rarities tonight. I wish I had gone higher on Hoyt.

I was in the running on Hoyt and had my bid set to go and it went right past me. Already have the E121-120 so was looking for the equivalent in series of 80. There were other cards I wanted more so I didn't bid as much as I should have to win. These auctions were like the "national" to me as E121-80 carda are all I would be looking for anyway.

[ValKehl]

I am thrilled to have won the WaJo card with the Type 3 back on eBay earlier this evening, because I now have WaJos with all 4 back types, as follows:
Throwing pose - Back Types 1, 2, and 3.
Hands-at-chest pose - Back Types 1 and 4.
Val

[old-baseball]

Val - good for you! As I watched that card sell I was wondering if that was you bidding on it.

[sreader3]

I was in the running on Hoyt and had my bid set to go and it went right past me. Already have the E121-120 so was looking for the equivalent in series of 80. There were other cards I wanted more so I didn't bid as much as I should have to win. These auctions were like the "national" to me as E121-80 carda are all I would be looking for anyway.

Ken, Similar to you there were other cards I wanted more and so bid too little on Hoyt. I initially set what might have ultimately been a winning snipe on Hoyt but lowered it this morning thinking I would win some of the rarities and not wanting to spread my finances too thin. Ha! I agree with you this was the Super Bowl for E121-80 collectors. Simply an amazing group. Scot

[kmac32]

Ken, Similar to you there were other cards I wanted more and so bid too little on Hoyt. I initially set what might have ultimately been a winning snipe on Hoyt but lowered it this morning thinking I would win some of the rarities and not wanting to spread my finances too thin. Ha! I agree with you this was the Super Bowl for E121-80 collectors. Simply an amazing group. Scot

We should contact leon and have a Net54 "National" event. Like a 3 day event where everybody lists anything they have available and advertise it as a true National baseball card show. The exhibit halls will be our living rooms and offices and no hotel or air fare to pay. None of this Chicago to Cleveland to Baltimore baloney. A real National baseball card show over the internet. Even better is the price of admission is well, Free!!! I realize we have BST already but this would be separate from BST.

[sreader3]

We should contact leon and have a Net54 "National" event. Like a 3 day event where everybody lists anything they have available and advertise it as a true National baseball card show. The exhibit halls will be our living rooms and offices and no hotel or air fare to pay. None of this Chicago to Cleveland to Baltimore baloney. A real National baseball card show over the internet. Even better is the price of admission is well, Free!!! I realize we have BST already but this would be separate from BST.

The Virtual National! I like it!

[kmac32]

The Virtual National! I like it!

We would need to figure out a way that everyone can create their card listings in mass and they all get posted as a group for everyone to see and the event goes on for 3 days. As we live all over the country, it would be a true "National" baseball card show. People can figure out how to pay and we send cards or trades to our trading/ buying card partners.

[ValKehl]

The Virtual National! I like it!

Plus 2!

Kevin - Thanks for the kind words.
Val

[sreader3]

Ken and Val,

We might need a coder to make the Virtual National concept take-off.

Trae Reagan where are you?

Scot

[kmac32]

I think a net54 virtual national would be awesome. I went 2 for 4 on my auctions tonight. Almost 3 for 4 but somebody outbid me with a second to go on the Frisch card.

[old-baseball]

That's good Ken. What else did you pick up?

[kmac32]

That's good Ken. What else did you pick up?

Miller Huggins and Mike Gonzales

[old-baseball]

Huggins and Gonzales are both really tough. Very low graded population. I'm a bit surprised the Huggins didn't go for even more than it did.

I was just sitting here thinking about this guys strategy on these auctions. I think he might have been better off doing the auctions with some time in between. There were just so many scarcer cards so quickly, they might have sold for more with additional time between offering. Good for us collectors but maybe not as good for the seller. There were bargains everywhere on the type three reverses.

[VoodooChild]

Nice wins Ken!

Did anybody win the Rip Collins or steal that Tom Rodgers?

[kmac32]

2 for e on auctions today. Picked up Nehf and Shawkey. Over the 3 days picked up 5 cards. My version of the "National" without even leaving my office.

[VoodooChild]

Nice pick-ups Ken! I blew my budget on the Baker but still tried to win some of the rare ones unsuccessfully. I think this thread might have hyped the auctions. The prices today for the rare ones seemed higher than the past few days. I did pick-up the Pipp Type 3. I know it's not one of the tough cards but I have a Type 4 so I'm thinking I'll try for a back run someday.

I wish I would've won more but that was fun. When's the next time you guys think we'll see a group like that for sale?

[kmac32]

Nice pick-ups Ken! I blew my budget on the Baker but still tried to win some of the rare ones unsuccessfully. I think this thread might have hyped the auctions. The prices today for the rare ones seemed higher than the past few days. I did pick-up the Pipp Type 3. I know it's not one of the tough cards but I have a Type 4 so I'm thinking I'll try for a back run someday.

I wish I would've won more but that was fun. When's the next time you guys think we'll see a group like that for sale?

Was definitely better than the National for me. Trying to figure out who all the bidders involved were. Definitely some aggressive bids. I spent about what it would have cost me to go to the National before I bought anything. Guess thats a good deal without the stress of travel. :-)

[Brian Van Horn]

.

[rhettyeakley]

I ended up with quite a few cards although I didn't pick up a single card off the wantlist (which is pretty small). I'm not sure we will ever see that many Type 3 cards come up for sale ever again (especially not all at the same time), they are actually very hard to find. I didn't pick up many rarities but picked up a lot of the regular E121's with the tougher back... this thread definitely caused the cards to go for much more today than the first day (the Roth alone went for $800+ and isn't as tough as the O'Leary, Baker, Gaston, Rogers and some of the tougher HOFers like Hoyt and Frisch--which were pretty good deals, especially the Frisch).

Of the tough guys I ended up with "Bill" Ryan, Cecil Causey, Harry Harper, and Emil Meusel. Unfortunately I didn't "need" any of them as I already had them as Type 2's in my collection.

BTW: We should start a list of the toughest E121's with their known quantities some time. It would be very enlightening. Obviously at the top of the list would be the O'Leary and Meadows (1 currently known of each) cards followed by the Gaston (2 currently known) and then Rogers (3 confirmed at this point) and others.

[Brian Van Horn]

Where does Sallee with ball end up on the rarity category?

[rhettyeakley]

Also, just wanted to point out that with this group and the ones I have studied previously I have now confirmed the existence of 75 cards with the Type 3 back. Assuming they issued 80 cards with that back (which may not be the case) there may only be a handful of "likelies" to add to the checklist in the future although we all can dream that some day the "other" Coach card of Burkett surfaces although I feel the most likely candidates for future discovery are Ross Youngs and Lou DeVormer (as they were later added to the E121-120 set).

My spreadsheet shows the following totals for the tough backs...

Type 2: 69 different confirmed
Type 3: 75 different confirmed
Type 4: 9 different confirmed

[rhettyeakley]

Where does Sallee with ball end up on the rarity category?

Rare, I have not confirmed him with the Type 3 back yet but I have seen a few with the Type 2 back (including the one I own).

It appears to me that the rarest New York guys have only been found with the Type 3 back (no Type 2's have shown up yet) and that group would consist of just the following...
O'Leary
Gaston
Rogers

There are a few rare New York guys that are only known currently as Type 2's (this list was much larger prior to this collection that just ended)...
Phil Douglas
Roger Peckinpaugh (name correct)
Slim Sallee (non-E135 pose--ie "with background")
Frank Snyder

[brianp-beme]

I figured Rhett would be on top of this like a hawk...it was an extended three day fest of previously unknown backs. Did the confirmed type 3 list almost double in size?

Hopefully Rhett you ended up with some for your collection...the chronicler deserves to reap some of the spoils. I, on the other, didn't win a single significant lot...just one ho-hum Type one back common.

Brian

[rhettyeakley]

I figured Rhett would be on top of this like a hawk...it was an extended three day fest of previously unknown backs. Did the confirmed type 3 list almost double in size?

Hopefully Rhett you ended up with some for your collection...the chronicler deserves to reap some of the spoils. I, on the other, didn't win a single significant lot...just one ho-hum Type one back common.

Brian

Brian, the Type 3 back list did almost double in size (that shows how tough this back actually is/was) I was at 42 confirmed prior to the ebay sale (now up to 75). I picked up quite a few Type 3's from the group and after this collection I will have 48 different in my collection (my total was 27 before) along with (34) Type 2's and (4) Type 4's.

[sreader3]

Rhett,

Thanks for your insightful posts.

Realizing it would take some time and effort on your part, I think many of us would appreciate it if you would update the E121-80 Type 3 checklist on your earlier Net54 thread to include all the discoveries from the recent eBay group.

If you don't have the time, I would be happy to do it.

Thanks.

Scot

[kmac32]

Any one have any idea who won the Frisch card?

[Leon]

E121 O'Leary for over $1600.00 and the E121 series of 80 Baker for $1351.56:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FRANK-BAKER-1921-E121-AMERICAN-CARAMEL-SERIES-80-GRADED-PSA-VG-EX-4-22748838-/201113986476?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWAX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=%252F3YMatUwpqoeKwyAJIg%252BumM6zlg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

As a back collector, these types don't really do it for me. I understand that as set collectors going for master sets these are big news items. Congrats to all of our members who filled holes. This type of find doesn't come up very often.

[kmac32]

Well, my E121-80 haul arrived today. Very nice in my opinion. USPS gave us some worries as the cards first went to New Jersey and then to Bell Gardens sorting center which is known for losing packages then to Los Angeles sorting that has the same reputation then to San Bernardino (has a good reputation). Excited and pleased that they arrived.