Who said there are no deals on ebay......

[Pat R]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1901-11-T206-Cy-Semour-Yankees-Lenox-Fair-Condition-4048-/191179807923?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item2c83345cb3&nma=true&si=UpiWtXP%252Frlnt8Cuz1xMcKiXklcY%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

[wolf441]

Wow....just wow.

[jp1216]

Buyer clearly overpaid by at least a few $$. :eek:

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

How does that happen to a sports card seller?


Sent using Tapatalk

[Sean]

The only thing that could make this sale funnier would be if the Lenox was in Brown ink. :D

[jb217676]

There are deals to be found on ebay if you dig deep enough. I picked up this postcard for next to nothing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RPPC-WINNER-SD-HOTEL-LOBBY-BASEBALL-ACE-BOB-FELLER-WITH-HUNTERS-CIGAR-COUNTER-/321399884143?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=DeMqcpUE9JYMgunilUd37lqM89M%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

[rhettyeakley]

I almost threw up when I saw this one after the fact (someone was HAPPY!)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-Zeenut-Candy-PCL-Baseball-Southworth-Portland-Beavers-/301136263877?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item461d1ebac5

[terjung]

I almost threw up when I saw this one after the fact (someone was HAPPY!)...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1916-Zeenut-Candy-PCL-Baseball-Southworth-Portland-Beavers-/301136263877?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item461d1ebac5

Holy cow! Was that a BIN or something?

[h2oya311]

Holy cow! Was that a BIN or something?

Are you kidding!!!! Now that's a deal. I think I paid north of 120x that amount for my example!!!

[GrayGhost]

great deals. wow

[ullmandds]

what a deal...i wonder if there were any other steals from this same seller?

His/her prices in general are pretty reasonable on most cards.

[bobbyw8469]

An employee must have listed that card and just went with the regular backs on the T206. No way does the seller honor that sale price.

[GoCubsGo32]

How much is this card worth?!? T206 isn't my area.

[vintagetoppsguy]

An employee must have listed that card and just went with the regular backs on the T206. No way does the seller honor that sale price.

^This

I know the seller. His name is Howard Lau and he has owned Houston Sports Connection for probably 25+ years. One of his employees probably listed it at that price by mistake.

[wolf441]

what a deal...i wonder if there were any other steals from this same seller?

His/her prices in general are pretty reasonable on most cards.

Agreed. I had to stop looking as I was to tempted to hit BIN on a bunch of stuff that I don't normally collect (post WWII - Topps Bob Gibson, Nolan Ryan, etc..). You should never troll ebay after having a beer (or 10)...:D

[Republicaninmass]

Someone probably alerted him and offered more before he shipped.

[Sean]

How much is this card worth?!? T206 isn't my area.

A Lenox back with a common front, even in this condition, should sell for somewhere between $1,000 and $1,500.

[slidekellyslide]

There are deals to be found on ebay if you dig deep enough. I picked up this postcard for next to nothing.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/RPPC-WINNER-SD-HOTEL-LOBBY-BASEBALL-ACE-BOB-FELLER-WITH-HUNTERS-CIGAR-COUNTER-/321399884143?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEWNX%3AIT&_trksid=p2047675.l2557&nma=true&si=DeMqcpUE9JYMgunilUd37lqM89M%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc

Wow..nice pickup, Jeff. Congrats!

[gnaz01]

I grabbed this a while back for $1.29 (shipping was $15) :D

[Tcards-Please]

Someone probably alerted him and offered more before he shipped.

From personal experience. There are deals to be had on ebay but it isn't advisable if you are the recipient of the deal to show this board the new acquisition until the card is in hand.

[auggiedoggy]

I've been involved in many great deals on eBay! Unfortunately they were all great deals for the seller. :(

[bobbyw8469]

I've been involved in many great deals on eBay! Unfortunately they were all great deals for the seller. :(

You must have not ever bought from me then! I give stuff away left and right!:o

[Peter_Spaeth]

Doesn't even begin to compare to this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Heroes-Caramel-William-McKinley-/271463863511?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3481d4d7

[slidekellyslide]

Doesn't even begin to compare to this one.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/American-Heroes-Caramel-William-McKinley-/271463863511?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f3481d4d7

Wow! Was that a BIN? Was the card real? :eek:

[Peter_Spaeth]

Wow! Was that a BIN? Was the card real? :eek:

It sure looks real to me.

[slidekellyslide]

It sure looks real to me.

I think I'd throw up if I were the seller and later learned this is one of the rarest non-sport cards extant.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I think I'd throw up if I were the seller and later learned this is one of the rarest non-sport cards extant.

I would assume someone told the seller.

[slidekellyslide]

I would assume someone told the seller.

I didn't see any feedback left for the transaction so you may be right.

[Peter_Spaeth]

It's uncancelled too. Only one other one known, I believe.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I would have paid quickly too.

Positive feedback rating Lightning fast payment Awesome Buyer: j***r ( 910Purple star icon for feedback score in between 500 to 999) Apr-23-14 11:10
American Heroes Caramel William McKinley (#271463863511) -- View Item

[slidekellyslide]

It's uncancelled too. Only one other one known, I believe.

Wonder what the story is...I now see from the seller's feedback that he sold other cards from the set. You have me intrigued...I'm tempted to contact the seller to see what the deal is.

[bobbyw8469]

Looking at the auction, it appears that the card was pulled. $9.99 was the opening bid. I am sure that they got a flurry of emails asking for a BIN price quickly, and decided to pull it down and let someone other than Ebay auction it off. Sorta like the same that happened to that woman doing the late night talk show circuit with that Cincinnati Red Stockings card.....

[mrvster]

shipped already:eek:

[bobbyw8469]

I know the seller. He goes to all the Raleigh shows. I will ask him next time I see him.

[bobbyw8469]

Just out of curiosity, how much would an uncancelled McKinley go for? Is that an easy 6 figure card?

[soccersaver97]

Just out of curiosity, how much would an uncancelled McKinley go for? Is that an easy 6 figure card?

Not 6 but definitely 5 figures

[D. Bergin]

Interesting. Ebay doesn't let you see anymore when a fixed price listing was first put up. I was curious to see how long some of these cards were floating around before somebody snatched them up.

I guess this is a lesson for those of us who weed out all the fixed price listings to only view the auctions.

[tschock]

I know the seller. He goes to all the Raleigh shows. I will ask him next time I see him.

My guess is either Greg didn't realize what he had or it wasn't real. But it will be interesting to find out.

[insccollectibles]

Wow, I can't believe these things still happen with all the available information out there.

[bobbyw8469]

My guess is either Greg didn't realize what he had or it wasn't real. But it will be interesting to find out.

It sure looked real.

[collectbaseball]

There are plenty of great deals to be had.... if you have time to dig! Off the top of my head, I got a T216 Mino for ~$12, a T206 Piedmont Factory 42 entirely by accident (crummy scans), and a Queen Victoria signed document for $60 or so.

[mrvster]

I already talked with him....poor bastard:eek:....real deal card.........

[Bocabirdman]

I already talked with him....poor bastard:eek:....real deal card.........

If he bought for a chunk and sold it for a sliver, that is one level of hell. If he bought it for a sliver (say in a pile of commons) and missed out on a chunk, that is another.:eek:

[sebie43]

I cant believe it, If he would have just Googled his own auction description.

[bobbyw8469]

I am totally blown away that someone who buys and sells card for a living puts cards on Ebay without doing one iota of research to see if a card is rare or valuable. I can understand not knowing everything about every single set that is out there, cause there are an absolute TON of sets out there. His auction title didn't even have the year (1932) or the maker of the card (US Caramel) anywhere in the title, nor the card number. It really had no keywords whatsoever in it for anyone to bid it up. Mind boggling.....

[Peter_Spaeth]

Caveat vendor.

[BleedinBlue]

I already talked with him....poor bastard:eek:....real deal card.........

Which seller did you talk to? The seller of the Lenox or the seller of the McKinley?

[polakoff]

I know the seller. He goes to all the Raleigh shows. I will ask him next time I see him.

I go to all the Raleigh shows. I've set up at every one since July. Do we know each other?

[bobbyw8469]

I go to all the Raleigh shows. I've set up at every one since July. Do we know each other?

If you have vintage, pehaps. If you have modern, no.

[polakoff]

I have both, but more modern. I usually have one case of vintage stars and a 3200 count box of low grade set fillers. No tobacco (yet).

[MacDice]

A few years ago I picked up a signed 1957 Brooks Robinson on EBay for $10 complete with the auto ticket from the show it was signed at. Seller listed it as Brooks Robinsom no one else saw the spelling error on the listing and I was the only bidder.

[bobbyw8469]

I have both, but more modern. I usually have one case of vintage stars and a 3200 count box of low grade set fillers. No tobacco (yet).

Tobacco doesn't thrill me. Show me some 50s Topps though, and some Goudeys....that's cool!

[packs]

I've told this story before but a few years ago I bought a Grover Cleveland Alexander signed baseball on the sweet spot for $80 on eBay.

[auggiedoggy]

You must have not ever bought from me then! I give stuff away left and right!:o

What's your eBay ID? ;)

[bobbyw8469]

What's your eBay ID? ;)

wandw-auctions. Howveer, I don't ship Internationally - except thru the Ebay gloabl shipping program. And I know how much you Canadians LOVEEEEE the Global Shipping Program, eh?

[Runscott]

wandw-auctions. Howveer, I don't ship Internationally - except thru the Ebay gloabl shipping program. And I know how much you Canadians LOVEEEEE the Global Shipping Program, eh?

I had never heard of this, but based on the following, it sounds like a way that I can continue offering free shipping, which has been my main concern, along with getting dinged for extra postage and customs delays, regarding shipping to Canada. I'm assuming the recipient picks up the added cost, thus your comment about Canadians not liking it. I'd like to know how that bit of the formula works.

How sellers are protected


With the Global Shipping Program, you're protected in the following ways:
You qualify for automatic 5-star protection on shipping and handling charge detailed seller ratings when you provide free domestic shipping to the US shipping center. If you receive a rating below 5 stars for shipping and handling charges, it won't count against your seller performance standards.
You qualify for automatic 5-star protection on shipping time detailed seller rating when you ship with same day or 1-day handling, upload tracking information within 1 business day of receiving cleared payment, and the item is delivered to the US shipping center within 4 business days. If you receive a rating below 5 stars for shipping time, it won't count against your seller performance standards.
Any negative or neutral feedback that can be attributed to the Global Shipping Program from item handling during international transit will be removed. See details.
You aren't responsible for item loss or damage that occurs after the item is forwarded by the US shipping center. Once an item has been forwarded by the US shipping center, you won't be responsible for refunding the buyer if an eBay Money Back Guarantee or PayPal Purchase Protection case is filed against you for one of the following reasons:
A buyer claims an item isn't received or
A package is damaged in transit

[auggiedoggy]

wandw-auctions. Howveer, I don't ship Internationally - except thru the Ebay gloabl shipping program. And I know how much you Canadians LOVEEEEE the Global Shipping Program, eh?

[BEGIN RANT]

For good reason, eh! Two reasons why GSP is a bad idea is that ....

1) It is applied to low-cost items that I would never have to pay duty on in the first place. Its just another unnecessary cost to me. Unless eBay has some kind of arrangement with the Canadian Government of which I am unaware, I question the legality of it.

2) Canada Customs staff are paid quite nicely to perform their duties. No need for eBay to get involved. If I'm going to get charged duty, let Canada Customs make that decision, not FeeBay.

[END RANT]

Good day, eh! :D

[auggiedoggy]

[RESUME RANT]

Besides having to pay that stupid import fee, we also have to pay a shipping fee as well. Can you say "MONEY GRAB"?

[END RANT]

[slidekellyslide]

I had never heard of this, but based on the following, it sounds like a way that I can continue offering free shipping, which has been my main concern, along with getting dinged for extra postage and customs delays, regarding shipping to Canada. I'm assuming the recipient picks up the added cost, thus your comment about Canadians not liking it. I'd like to know how that bit of the formula works.

How sellers are protected


With the Global Shipping Program, you're protected in the following ways:
You qualify for automatic 5-star protection on shipping and handling charge detailed seller ratings when you provide free domestic shipping to the US shipping center. If you receive a rating below 5 stars for shipping and handling charges, it won't count against your seller performance standards.
You qualify for automatic 5-star protection on shipping time detailed seller rating when you ship with same day or 1-day handling, upload tracking information within 1 business day of receiving cleared payment, and the item is delivered to the US shipping center within 4 business days. If you receive a rating below 5 stars for shipping time, it won't count against your seller performance standards.
Any negative or neutral feedback that can be attributed to the Global Shipping Program from item handling during international transit will be removed. See details.
You aren't responsible for item loss or damage that occurs after the item is forwarded by the US shipping center. Once an item has been forwarded by the US shipping center, you won't be responsible for refunding the buyer if an eBay Money Back Guarantee or PayPal Purchase Protection case is filed against you for one of the following reasons:
A buyer claims an item isn't received or
A package is damaged in transit


I had an expensive lesson this last week on the Global Shipping Program...I recently acquired a valuable lamp made by Lecoultre...I knew this would be desired by International bidders so I set the auction for Global Shipping Program only...it sold for $2,650 to an Italian bidder...ebay kicked it out of the GSP after the auction had ended. There is no way to send an item to Italy of that value and insure it for the full amount...the Italian Post Office is also notorious for "losing" items..especially valuable items...the Italians also have a laundry list of items that are not allowed to be shipped into their country..one of them being "antiques", and they do not return any items they deem unacceptable. So I refunded the Italian buyer and sold the lamp to the highest US bidder. The Italian buyer will not cooperate with me and cancel the transaction which has cost me over $200...he is also threatening negative feedback. All of this because ebay kicked my item out of the GSP AFTER it was over.

[mrvster]

he shipped it!:eek:

[ullmandds]

he shipped it!:eek:

Good! It's refreshing to see an honest seller for a change. If one of his staff made an error resulting in a great deal for a potential buyer...the seller should honor the sale.

[Republicaninmass]

Good! It's refreshing to see an honest seller for a change. If one of his staff made an error resulting in a great deal for a potential buyer...the seller should honor the sale.


He is bound legally by ebay's terms and conditions, but how can it be enforced?

[ullmandds]

He is bound legally by ebay's terms and conditions, but how can it be enforced?

It cant..and sellers reneg on deals all of the time for whatever reason.

And just the fact that some posters on here "assumed" that the deal would not be completed because a "mistake" was made on someone's part is a testament to the loose nature of ebay transactions.

[jhs5120]

That's a shame he shipped it. No one should get screwed over for that much money.

[ullmandds]

That's a shame he shipped it. No one should get screwed over for that much money.

-1(I disagree)

Best way to learn a lesson...is to make a mistake.

[jhs5120]

-1(I disagree)

Best way to learn a lesson...is to make a mistake.

It's still unfortunate. No one is trying to teach this man a lesson, if I lost out on $1,000+ I'd be pretty upset about it.

[bobbyw8469]

-1(I disagree)

Best way to learn a lesson...is to make a mistake.

Maybe that employee was reprimanded and had to make up the difference in value?

On a similar, but side note, didn't the same thing happen at a card show over a Nolan Ryan rookie card?? Even though it was an Ebay transaction, I don't see how it can be forced to be followed thru, the same way the deal at the card show was never consumated and eventually had to go through the court systems.

[ullmandds]

I'm obviously in the minority here. No one wants to be responsible/accountable for their actions anymore.

If employee was reprimanded...he deserved to be! If seller lost $1000 due to carelessness...he deserved it.

What happened to being accountable...and repercussions?

Maybe the employee/seller who made a mistake here should be given an "I'll try harder next time trophy?"

[bobbyw8469]

Cool....you made no mention of the comparable situation though. There is obviously a precedent that had to go thru the court systems. Whatever became of the Nolan Ryan rookie card that sold for, what, $12?

[bn2cardz]

I'm obviously in the minority here. No one wants to be responsible/accountable for their actions anymore.

If employee was reprimanded...he deserved to be! If seller lost $1000 due to carelessness...he deserved it.

What happened to being accountable...and repercussions?

Maybe the employee/seller who made a mistake here should be given an "I'll try harder next time trophy?"

Just because someone "deserved" it doesn't mean that people can't have mercy. Just as often as people don't want to be "responsible/accountable" there are people that don't know how to show compassion and mercy.

[jhs5120]

If employee was reprimanded...he deserved to be! If seller lost $1000 due to carelessness...he deserved it.


You're right, this guy obviously had it coming. Serves him right.

Hopefully you never experience any oversight or lapse in judgment, because apparently no one deserves a free pass.

[jhs5120]

there are people that don't know how to show compassion and mercy.

+1

[ullmandds]

You're right, this guy obviously had it coming. Serves him right.

Hopefully you never experience any oversight or lapse in judgment, because apparently no one deserves a free pass.

I was never implying anyone had anything coming...or "deserves" to be punished.

In life we all make mistakes...and these mistakes usually provide invaluable learning experiences.

If we all were granted "free passes" when we made mistakes...the world would be a worse place.

That's fine...I'm done with this discussion...maybe I'm wrong...this is just my take on this situation.

[bobbyw8469]

An online store is no different than a brick and mortar store. The person should not be "forced" to complete the trasnaction, the same way that kid took advantage of "good samaritan" watching the store and getting a Ryan rookie for $12. I am sorry, but if that was my Lennox card, then yes, I too would be sitting in court right now.

[ullmandds]

OK...this is my last comment!!!!!!! So basically anyone who has ever purchased a card at a steal of a price on ebay(due to sellers lack of knowledge regarding an item...or whatever reason)...should really contact the buyer and offer to sell him/her back the item at said bargain price...as they made a mistake and shouldn't be "punished" for it?

Whatever happened to ones knowledge offering a competitive advantage when purchasing collectibles?

Is this concept antiquated now? That knowledge is even necessary in a given collectible/antiquity category to gain an advantage of some sort?

[jhs5120]

If we all were granted "free passes" when we made mistakes...the world would be a worse place.

No one is implying every mistake deserves a free pass, but when a small business owner forgets the value of an obscure t206 back, he certainly doesn't "deserve" (as you put it) to have someone take advantage of him.

It's just like the 100's of reprints on ebay. Just because the buyer doesn't know the difference between an authentic and reprinted t206 doesn't mean he deserves to be taken advantage of.

I agree, the world would be a worse place if everyone was given a free pass for each mistake they make, but it would be a far worse world if no one received a free pass ever.

Just my opinion.

[vintagetoppsguy]

If the seller made a mistake, I don't believe he should be held accountable. If you accidentally included an extra "0" on a $40 check and wrote it for $400 instead, does the recipient get to keep the extra money just becuase of your mistake?

As I stated earlier, I am just a few minutes from the guy's shop and I'll swing by there on my lunch hour and find out what happend on his end.

[ullmandds]

biting my tongue...it really hurts!!!!:p

[byrone]

biting my tongue...it really hurts!!!!:p

Bought a card on ebay a few years back, seller listed it with a "Buy it now" that was very low, and after some thought on my part realized it was clearly a mistake by the seller. After the seller contacted me about the item, I happily cancelled the transaction. He was able to re-list the item and sold it at auction at a more appropriate price for him.

No harm , no foul.

[Republicaninmass]

Please see ebay's T&C. I guess if you could prove damages, you absolutely in fact have a legal binding contract. Just because "it's Ebay" and "it happens all the time" doesnt hold water. Now proving it is a different subject

[Jaybird]

I'm with you, Pete. Everyone has taken a hit now and again. That's how we learn.

We can still all join hands and sing though, if you want.

[BleedinBlue]

I remember the Ryan Rookie card sale very. The Ryan rookie was marked for $800 but the inexperienced clerk misread the price as $8.00.

What I would like to know here is if the Lenox seller paid market price for the card or if the card was purchased as part of a lot as a common card. If the seller purchased the card as a common do they feel obligated to track down the original seller and correct the previous transaction? If they do not intend on correcting the original transaction they have very little justification for canceling this transaction.

[Leon]

I am in the unpopular opinion crowd in thinking if they made a mistake they should be able to cancel the sale. I understand the contract thing and all of that but if it were me that made a mistake I would want some compassion on being able to fix it...and on the converse if I found a 10k card for $10 and the seller canceled it, I would understand. Don't get me wrong, if he still shipped it I would accept it, but I would understand if he didn't. Just one opinion here....

Now, if it were an auction style sale then that is different and I don't think canceling an auction sale is cool, unless there was some extraordinary issue other than this kind of mistake.....

[auggiedoggy]

biting my tongue...it really hurts!!!!:p

Go for it!

You know you want to ... ;)

[slidekellyslide]

My brother and I both use the same ebay ID...we own an antique shop together...I was at home listing postcards with a BIN of $9.99...he was at the shop and unbeknownst to me he started listing some items...he did not realize that the ebay auction software was set to Buy It Now instead of auction and he listed a Major Matt Mason playset that normally sells for $200-$300...someone hit the BIN within minutes of his listing it...we quickly notified the buyer that it was a mistake and tried to cancel the transaction...he refused. We just relisted it correctly as an auction and the guy left us a negative.

I don't think we had any moral obligation to complete the transaction...it was a mistake, they happen.

[BleedinBlue]

On the Lenox card in question, the buyer is a member of these boards and is reading this thread with great interest. In this case I know for a fact that the seller has not reached out to the buyer to request canceling the sale and I know for a fact that while eBay lists the card as "shipped", the USPS has no tracking information available. There is no evidence that the card has in fact left Houston.

[sebie43]

Well I for one will make sure I never get another deal on Ebay, and I will be sure to keep cash on hand just incase I buy something below market value.

[Gobucsmagic74]

On the Lenox card in question, the buyer is a member of these boards and is reading this thread with great interest. In this case I know for a fact that the seller has not reached out to the buyer to request canceling the sale and I know for a fact that while eBay lists the card as "shipped", the USPS has no tracking information available. There is no evidence that the card has in fact left Houston.

I think an appropriate resolution might involve the seller contacting the buyer, explaining the situation, and requesting to cancel the transaction. I would also think that it might be appropriate for the seller to offer a certain compensation for the purchasers time and consideration. Maybe $100 or something along those lines.

[wolf441]

What I would like to know here is if the Lenox seller paid market price for the card or if the card was purchased as part of a lot as a common card. If the seller purchased the card as a common do they feel obligated to track down the original seller and correct the previous transaction? If they do not intend on correcting the original transaction they have very little justification for canceling this transaction.

+1. The fact that the card was listed with a bunch of T206 commons leads me to believe that it was acquired by the seller as a common card (otherwise, why wouldn't it be separated from the low $$ merchandise). If the seller didn't pay top dollar for the Lenox, the he's not "losing" $1000+, he's just not making out on a huge potential profit. Lesson learned.

If the seller did indeed pay top dollar or close to top dollar on the Lenox and someone listed it incorrectly, then I feel that he would be justified in cancelling the deal.

[tschock]

People talking about apples, oranges, mangos, and pomegranates. They're all fruit but not the same.

Listing something at $8.00 when the intent was to list something at $800 is not of the same fruit as listing something at $8.00 because you aren't aware of the value.

As to compassion. Compassion that is forced is not compassion.

[nolemmings]

People talking about apples, oranges, mangos, and pomegranates. They're all fruit but not the same.

Listing something at $8.00 when the intent was to list something at $800 is not of the same fruit as listing something at $8.00 because you aren't aware of the value.

As to compassion. Compassion that is forced is not compassion.

Agreed.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

This is an interesting conversation. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. However, I am impressed by the sense of equity that some of you expressed. Your sense of "doing the right thing" and that "everyone makes mistakes" is uplifting.

Personally I believe that for better or worse a deal is a deal. The best lessons I learned were from my own mistakes. One of my favorite lines is from the movie Rounders and goes something like this - "I can't remember how I made my bankroll but I can't stop thinking about how I lost it."

[bobbyw8469]

People talking about apples, oranges, mangos, and pomegranates. They're all fruit but not the same.

Listing something at $8.00 when the intent was to list something at $800 is not of the same fruit as listing something at $8.00 because you aren't aware of the value.

As to compassion. Compassion that is forced is not compassion.

In both this instance and the Nolan Ryan rookie card instance, and employee, or someone working for the business owner incorrectly sold something at the wrong price. I don't think that is apples and oranges.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

In both this instance and the Nolan Ryan rookie card instance, and employee, or someone working for the business owner incorrectly sold something at the wrong price. I don't think that is apples and oranges.


Has the seller said why the card was priced at that amount?

[nolemmings]

In both this instance and the Nolan Ryan rookie card instance, and employee, or someone working for the business owner incorrectly sold something at the wrong price. I don't think that is apples and oranges.


How do you know this? Did seller miss a decimal point--was going to sell it for $2495.00? I don't think so. Did he list the wrong item? He identified it as Lennox, twice, so I don't think so. Did he not know what he had? Probably.

[BleedinBlue]

In the case of the Ryan card the seller paid a hefty price for the card and then tried to flip for a profit. Selling at the low price involved loss of money in the transactions. In the case of the Lenox we do not know if the seller bought it as a common and sold it as a common, in which case there is the loss of profit but not money. If the seller bought at a premium I question why the didn't take better care of the card to ensure it was listed appropriately. If they bought as a common, does the seller feel obligated to go back to the original seller and correct the original transaction? Because unless the seller plans on going back to correct the original deal they are wanting to play both sides of the game and have no moral rights to the card or the excess profits they will make that should have gone to the original seller.

[tschock]

In both this instance and the Nolan Ryan rookie card instance, and employee, or someone working for the business owner incorrectly sold something at the wrong price. I don't think that is apples and oranges.

In the case of the Lennox, where is it stated that an employee listed it wrong? I may have missed that.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I misspoke earlier when I mentioned the name of the seller. I said that is was a friend of mine, Howard Lau, who owns a shop here in town. I had the eBay usernames confused with another friend. Howard is not the owner of the card. However, the correct owner has been notified and we’ll see if he ships it or not. That’s up to him.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Ultimately in life it's better to do the right thing. Not too long ago an auction house had a BIN sale where they dramatically underpriced a Cracker Jack card -- they listed it at SMR but in fact the market value was several times that (SMR is notoriously off on CJs and they refuse to fix it). I was tempted just to buy it, and make a tidy profit but decided to alert them instead.

[Leon]

Ultimately in life it's better to do the right thing. Not too long ago an auction house had a BIN sale where they dramatically underpriced a Cracker Jack card -- they listed it at SMR but in fact the market value was several times that (SMR is notoriously off on CJs and they refuse to fix it). I was tempted just to buy it, but decided to alert them instead.

I did that too. I saw one of our members list a card erroneously on ebay not too long ago. It was a several hundred dollar Zeenut he had miss listed for a small fraction of that. A very obvious mistake. I hit the BIN immediately to protect him. I told him about it, he thanked me and we canceled the sale. I thought in the time I alerted him that someone else might have hit the BIN, before he closed the auction down, and then he would have possibly had a bigger issue.

[BleedinBlue]

Ultimately in life it's better to do the right thing. Not too long ago an auction house had a BIN sale where they dramatically underpriced a Cracker Jack card -- they listed it at SMR but in fact the market value was several times that (SMR is notoriously off on CJs and they refuse to fix it). I was tempted just to buy it, and make a tidy profit but decided to alert them instead.

We know the eBay seller sold the card for far below market value. Did they also buy it for far below market value? Is the eBay seller obligated to do the "right thing" or only the eBay buyer?

[jhs5120]

We know the eBay seller sold the card for far below market value. Did they also buy it for far below market value? Is the eBay seller obligated to do the "right thing" or only the eBay buyer?


I don't think anyone is obligated to do anything. It's just a shame to see someone get taken advantage of.

[nolemmings]

I really don't have skin in the game on this, but do find people's choices and opinions interesting. I strongly suspect that if buyer had acquired this card at an estate or yard sale for $25.00 most here would slap him on the back with a great big attaboy and a cry of lament as to how they should be so lucky. Never mind that seller there is likely unsophisticated,might even be grieving, and probably can be excused for not knowing certain nuances about back scarcities. Yet when one of the brotherhood, who damn well should know what he is doing as he does it for a living, underprices his goods, it is only right that he be advised of his oversight (I won't even call it a mistake per se) so he can maximize his profit. IF you are one of those people I would be interested in how you reconcile the two situations.

[ullmandds]

i really don't have skin in the game on this, but do find people's choices and opinions interesting. I strongly suspect that if buyer had acquired this card at an estate or yard sale for $25.00 most here would slap him on the back with a great big attaboy and a cry of lament as to how they should be so lucky. Never mind that seller there is likely unsophisticated,might even be grieving, and probably can be excused for not knowing certain nuances about back scarcities. Yet when one of the brotherhood, who damn well should know what he is doing as he does it for a living, underprices his goods, it is only right that he be advised of his oversight (i won't even call it a mistake per se) so he can maximize his profit. if you are one of those people i would be interested in how you reconcile the two situations.

exactly!!!!!

[chernieto]

Leon & Peter have some great Karma coming there way!

It's a tough hobby though,bid in a lot of auctions where shilling may take place ( except when I consign) & it's wrong and we are considered morally corrupt.
Find a great deal & tell the seller they are wrong on price....Watch endless BIN's way over priced.....it's not easy to collect

[BleedinBlue]

I really don't have skin in the game on this, but do find people's choices and opinions interesting. I strongly suspect that if buyer had acquired this card at an estate or yard sale for $25.00 most here would slap him on the back with a great big attaboy and a cry of lament as to how they should be so lucky. Never mind that seller there is likely unsophisticated,might even be grieving, and probably can be excused for not knowing certain nuances about back scarcities. Yet when one of the brotherhood, who damn well should know what he is doing as he does it for a living, underprices his goods, it is only right that he be advised of his oversight (I won't even call it a mistake per se) so he can maximize his profit. IF you are one of those people I would be interested in how you reconcile the two situations.

Well said. Unless somebody can show me the eBay seller paid full value for the card and sold for a fraction through an error then I say the sale should stand. If the eBay seller bought for a fraction of fair market value they are not entitled to the excess profits resulting from the mistake of the original seller when they then repeat a mistake that they should be knowledgable enough to prevent.

[ullmandds]

Leon & Peter have some great Karma coming there way!


I don't think the karma police will be tracking me down for voicing my opinion. I have sold cards numerous times at a loss...not just little losses...in some cases big losses. I don't bitch and whine...I accept it and move on.

If I make a mistake...I don't expect to be given a re-do...I accept the repercussions, move on... and am a better person as a result.

[jhs5120]

I really don't have skin in the game on this, but do find people's choices and opinions interesting. I strongly suspect that if buyer had acquired this card at an estate or yard sale for $25.00 most here would slap him on the back with a great big attaboy and a cry of lament as to how they should be so lucky. Never mind that seller there is likely unsophisticated,might even be grieving, and probably can be excused for not knowing certain nuances about back scarcities. Yet when one of the brotherhood, who damn well should know what he is doing as he does it for a living, underprices his goods, it is only right that he be advised of his oversight (I won't even call it a mistake per se) so he can maximize his profit. IF you are one of those people I would be interested in how you reconcile the two situations.

Excellent points; it's certainly not cut and dry.

I guess this particular issue hits home for me. I could easily see myself in this sort of situation. I list most of my items between the hours of 9-11pm and I sometimes make mistakes (thankfully none that cost me $1,000). You can tell by the listing that it was a mistake. The buyer knew it was a mistake and everyone in this thread knows that the listing was a mistake. The seller obviously never meant to list a Lenox back t206 card for $25. Something just didn't register with him (or whomever) at the time.

Some people see a mistake on ebay and take advantage and others try to correct it. I don't fault the guy who capitalized on it (I would've done the same), but I would also understand if the buyer reneged.

[4815162342]

I really don't have skin in the game on this, but do find people's choices and opinions interesting. I strongly suspect that if buyer had acquired this card at an estate or yard sale for $25.00 most here would slap him on the back with a great big attaboy and a cry of lament as to how they should be so lucky. Never mind that seller there is likely unsophisticated,might even be grieving, and probably can be excused for not knowing certain nuances about back scarcities. Yet when one of the brotherhood, who damn well should know what he is doing as he does it for a living, underprices his goods, it is only right that he be advised of his oversight (I won't even call it a mistake per se) so he can maximize his profit. IF you are one of those people I would be interested in how you reconcile the two situations.

exactly!!!!!

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=127277

[chernieto]

I don't think the karma police will be tracking me down for voicing my opinion. I have sold cards numerous times at a loss...not just little losses...in some cases big losses. I don't bitch and whine...I accept it and move on.

If I make a mistake...I don't expect to be given a re-do...I accept the repercussions, move on... and am a better person as a result.

I don't think they will track you down, if in fact they exist. I can relate 100% to your view point and share the same experiences ! I'm glad we can all express our viewpoints.
I always imagine karma more as a universal force than a police force
Paul C

[tschock]

Leon & Peter have some great Karma coming there way!

I think it's always best to do the right thing, but if the seller's last name been Mastro or Nash, now THAT would have been "great Karma". ;)

[vintagetoppsguy]

I really don't have skin in the game on this, but do find people's choices and opinions interesting. I strongly suspect that if buyer had acquired this card at an estate or yard sale for $25.00 most here would slap him on the back with a great big attaboy and a cry of lament as to how they should be so lucky. Never mind that seller there is likely unsophisticated,might even be grieving, and probably can be excused for not knowing certain nuances about back scarcities. Yet when one of the brotherhood, who damn well should know what he is doing as he does it for a living, underprices his goods, it is only right that he be advised of his oversight (I won't even call it a mistake per se) so he can maximize his profit. IF you are one of those people I would be interested in how you reconcile the two situations.

In your example of the estate sale or the yard sale, if the seller didn’t know the value, then they should have done more research. They priced the card at an amount they felt comfortable with. If the seller did know the value and simply made a pricing a mistake, they have the right to back out of the sale before it is finalized. With eBay, the seller didn’t have a chance to back out due to a pricing mistake. That's the difference.

Edited to add: But let's turn it around, Todd. You are an attorney. Let's say you agree to take my case, but I have to put up a $5K retainer. Your secretary bills me for only $500 (she omits a zero from the bill). Do you still take my case with only a $500 retainer, or do you have your secretary contact me and tell me there was a pricing mistake? Just curious???

[ullmandds]

I just don't agree with all these caveats people are suggesting...if this then this? Are you a mind reader? Do you know what a seller was thinking...or what knowledge is in his/her brain? And it's not like baseball card dealers are the most ethical, honest bunch out there...who's to say they can't lie?

[nolemmings]

There is no evidence here that there was a pricing error--is someone suggesting that this card was intended to be sold for $2495.00 and a decimal point was missed? Or is it more likely that someone forgot or didn't realize that a Lennox back--noted BOTH in the title and in the description-- is worth considerably more than $24.95. Two completely different animals.

[bobbyw8469]

There is no evidence here that there was a pricing error--is someone suggesting that this card was intended to be sold for $2495.00 and a decimal point was missed? Or is it more likely that someone forgot or didn't realize that a Lennox back--noted BOTH in the title and in the description-- is worth considerably more than $24.95. Two completely different animals.

I think the price should have been $249.95.

[jhs5120]

I just don't agree with all these caveats people are suggesting...if this then this? Are you a mind reader? Do you know what a seller was thinking...or what knowledge is in his/her brain? And it's not like baseball card dealers are the most ethical, honest bunch out there...who's to say they can't lie?

No caveats. If you see a dealer make a mistake on a listing you can either take advantage of the mistake or try to correct it. Neither choice is wrong.

All I said was it's a shame this dealer was dealing with an opportunist.

[BleedinBlue]

There is no evidence here that there was a pricing error--is someone suggesting that this card was intended to be sold for $2495.00 and a decimal point was missed? Or is it more likely that someone forgot or didn't realize that a Lennox back--noted BOTH in the title and in the description-- is worth considerably more than $24.95. Two completely different animals.

This was not an error in decimal place. All t206 cards sold by the seller were the same $24.95 price. Regardless of back.

[ullmandds]

No caveats. If you see a dealer make a mistake on a listing you can either take advantage of the mistake or try to correct it. Neither choice is wrong.

All I said was it's a shame this dealer was dealing with an opportunist.

nothing personal, JAson...but I find your way of thinking to be totally one sided.

[vintagetoppsguy]

There is no evidence here that there was a pricing error

Call him and ask him

(713) 672-2793

Still waiting on answer for question in post #112

[jhs5120]

nothing personal, JAson...but I find your way of thinking to be totally one sided.

Pot calling the kettle black.

[chernieto]

No caveats. If you see a dealer make a mistake on a listing you can either take advantage of the mistake or try to correct it. Neither choice is wrong.

All I said was it's a shame this dealer was dealing with an opportunist.

An opportunist? As a buyer aren't we all opportunists, looking for an opportunity to get a card at a good, or preferably great price?
If there is a shame here it's not the buyer fault. I don't think they were taking advantage of the seller. The seller offered an item at a price.
If you see cross country airline tickets offered for $40 by United Airlines would you call them and say the price is too low & you would prefer to pay 10 times the offered price?
If an attorney says "all retainers are 5k" and the bill is 500 one could rightly expect the know price to come back and the error to be addressed.
The seller never said the Lenox card is a steal at $249.50 or made any indication of value other than the BIN price. If the card goes to a TPG and comes back as a fake the price might end up being.......high. Not saying that will happen, but it would likely change everyone's opinion on the subject.
Paul C

[nolemmings]

I will not call him and ask him. Unlike you, I do not gratuitously interject myself into other people's business transactions.

As for your post, learn what retainers truly are and then come back with a proper question. If I were to provide services at an agreed-upon rate and list a detailed accounting of my time--as is the case with my billings, which are generated on a software program not likely to make a computational error-- and that time came to $5000.00, then I would expect to get paid for all of my time expended, and would point out any error that claimed $500.00 and request the difference. If the client did not agree, I would likely eat the difference and withdraw from further representation.

[tschock]

I will not call him and ask him. Unlike you, I do not gratuitously interject myself into other people's business transactions.

As for your post, learn what retainers truly are and then come back with a proper question. If I were to provide services at an agreed-upon rate and list a detailed accounting of my time--as is the case with my billings, which are generated on a software program not likely to make a computational error-- and that time came to $5000.00, then I would expect to get paid for all of my time expended, and would point out any error that claimed $500.00 and request the difference. If the client did not agree, I would likely eat the difference and withdraw from further representation.

OK, now try saying that with the voice of John Houseman, because that's how I'm hearing it in my head. :D

[jhs5120]

If there is a shame here it's not the buyer fault. I don't think they were taking advantage of the seller.

I never blamed the buyer. What he did was not wrong in any regard, he took advantage of a seller who made a simple mistake. In this hobby some people praise that sort of action (I know I do sometimes).

It's just unfortunate for the dealer.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I will not call him and ask him. Unlike you, I do not gratuitously interject myself into other people's business transactions.

I generally don't either. I make an exception in the case of a friend.

As for your post, learn what retainers truly are and then come back with a proper question.

Thank you, but I know what a retainer is - it's bascially like an advanced payment for an attorney's fee. In 1999, I had to put up a retainer in my custody battle with my ex wife. The attorney charged a $5000 retainer and billed $250/hr against the retainer. Every month I received a bill for whatever he billed so that there was $5K in the retainer at all time. Don't tell me about retainer fees.

[Rich Klein]

I remember the Ryan Rookie card sale very. The Ryan rookie was marked for $800 but the inexperienced clerk misread the price as $8.00.

What I would like to know here is if the Lenox seller paid market price for the card or if the card was purchased as part of a lot as a common card. If the seller purchased the card as a common do they feel obligated to track down the original seller and correct the previous transaction? If they do not intend on correcting the original transaction they have very little justification for canceling this transaction.

Small factual correction, the Ryan Rookie was marked 12- when the goal was to sell at $1200, the buyer, who was about 12 years old at the time bought it at $12 and then opened his mouth to his friends.

But it was $12 and $1200

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I generally don't either. I make an exception in the case of a friend.







Thank you, but I know what a retainer is - it's bascially like an advanced payment for an attorney's fee. In 1999, I had to put up a retainer in my custody battle with my ex wife. The attorney charged a $5000 retainer and billed $250/hr against the retainer. Every month I received a bill for whatever he billed so that there was $5K in the retainer at all time. Don't tell me about retainer fees.


You are actually incorrect a true retainer is paid so the lawyer is available when you call. In essence it is earned when paid. The situation you described is a fee deposit. The money is given to the lawyer but is not earned until he works on the case. Most lawyers even get confused about the difference.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I really don't have skin in the game on this, but do find people's choices and opinions interesting. I strongly suspect that if buyer had acquired this card at an estate or yard sale for $25.00 most here would slap him on the back with a great big attaboy and a cry of lament as to how they should be so lucky. Never mind that seller there is likely unsophisticated,might even be grieving, and probably can be excused for not knowing certain nuances about back scarcities. Yet when one of the brotherhood, who damn well should know what he is doing as he does it for a living, underprices his goods, it is only right that he be advised of his oversight (I won't even call it a mistake per se) so he can maximize his profit. IF you are one of those people I would be interested in how you reconcile the two situations.


I agree with this sentiment. I don't see how it can be okay to benefit in one situation but not the other.

[Sean]

Maybe we should have a poll:

If you were the buyer of this card, would you agree if the seller wished to cancel the sale?

I once bought a BIN T206 Piedmont on ebay for about $30. When it arrived I realized that it was a Factory 42. I was thrilled. I would not have agreed to cancel the sale if the seller had asked, nor would I think that I had done anything wrong by keeping the card.

[mintacular]

The moral thing to do if winning one of these 2 cards is to contact the seller and explain to them that they erroneously priced the card, and come up with a compromise $ that works for both sides...

Anything less is just bad justification for your lack of morals in the case of a severely under-priced card.

Now, getting a good deal due to your knowledge of condition/scarcity of a card is fair game and the buyer should not have to pay back the difference of the purchase price. JMO

Of course, many people are focused more so on $ and not so much on morals....And that's ok but don't pretend that your purchase is morally sound...

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

The moral thing to do if winning one of these 2 cards is to contact the seller and explain to them that they erroneously priced the card, and come up with a compromise $ that works for both sides...



Anything less is just bad justification for your lack of morals in the case of a severely under-priced card.



Now, getting a good deal due to your knowledge of condition/scarcity of a card is fair game and the buyer should not have to pay back the difference of the purchase price. JMO



Of course, many people are focused more so on $ and not so much on morals....And that's ok but don't pretend that your purchase is morally sound...


This is not a moral issue. Lying, stealing and killing are immoral.

[mintacular]

One could argue this would be stealing...I'm pretty sure JC would not make the argument "Hey it's their fault they didn't know what they were selling, Nice buy!" (followed with a high-five)...

Again, I don't think you have the LEGAL obligation to return card, but don't try to make a MORAL justification for completing this transaction....

[Gobucsmagic74]

One could argue this would be stealing...

No, not really

[Sean]

Roughly a year ago one board member (Jerry) found and bought a Brown Old Mill on ebay for $50. Should he contact the seller and offer him $5,000 in order to do the moral thing?

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

One could argue this would be stealing...I'm pretty sure JC would not make the argument "Hey it's their fault they didn't know what they were selling, Nice buy!" (followed with a high-five)


Did you seriously just try to use Christ as a trump card?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Roughly a year ago one board member (Jerry) found and bought a Brown Old Mill on ebay for $50. Should he contact the seller and offer him $5,000 in order to do the moral thing?

The situation is totally different. The Lenox was a mistake in the price. The Old Mill was a case of the seller not knowing (or taking the time to research) what they were listing. Had the buyer bought the Lenox because it wasn't listed correctly, it would be a different story. Taking advantage of a pricing mistake is another story. Yes, it is a moral issue.

[Peter_Spaeth]

One could argue this would be stealing...I'm pretty sure JC would not make the argument "Hey it's their fault they didn't know what they were selling, Nice buy!" (followed with a high-five)...

Again, I don't think you have the LEGAL obligation to return card, but don't try to make a MORAL justification for completing this transaction....

I don't take a religious angle on this, but I do think it would be wrong to take advantage of someone's ignorance and buy a 5 figure card for $9.99 without at least kicking something back to the seller.

[Gobucsmagic74]

The situation is totally different. The Lenox was a mistake in the price. The Old Mill was a case of the seller not knowing (or taking the time to research) what they were listing. Had the buyer bought the Lenox because it wasn't listed correctly, it would be a different story. Taking advantage of a pricing mistake is another story. Yes, it is a moral issue.

Whether it's a moral issue or not is debatable, but it's in no way stealing.

[mintacular]

Yes, I did bring JC into the conversation, or any other religious leader of your choosing...

Sometimes you have to ask yourself "What would (insert religious leader) do?" when posed with questions of morality. Would be interested to know what religious leader would be in favor of either the Lenox or McKinley buy without contacting the seller for a compromise verdict.

Again, if morality is not a priority in your life that's your choice, but don't try to justify your purchase with moral arguments...

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Yes, I did bring JC into the conversation, or any other religious leader of your choosing...



Sometimes you have to ask yourself "What would (insert religious leader) do?" when posed with questions of morality. Would be interested to know what religious leader would be in favor of either the Lenox or McKinley buy without contacting the seller for a compromise verdict.



Again, if morality is not a priority in your life that's your choice, but don't try to justify your purchase with moral arguments...


Patrick,

I agree that a person should live his life according to his morals and religious beliefs. My position is that this is not a moral issue. You feel that it is. We are not going to see eye to eye on this one and that is okay.

Alex

[nolemmings]

I don't take a religious angle on this, but I do think it would be wrong to take advantage of someone's ignorance and buy a 5 figure card for $9.99 without at least kicking something back to the seller.

Peter, so do you believe this sale happened because of ignorance or because seller knew the truth and just made a mistake in the manner he listed/sold the item? BTW, it was $24.95 for the card, within the range of other T206s he was selling. If he was ignorant as to what he had (in your opinion), then how do you square it with the poor soul who doesn't know the value of items at a yard sale/ estate sale?

[Peter_Spaeth]

Peter, so do you believe this sale happened because of ignorance or because seller knew the truth and just made a mistake in the manner he listed/sold the item? BTW, it was $24.95 for the card, within the range of other T206s he was selling. If he was ignorant as to what he had (in your opinion), then how do you square it with the poor soul who doesn't know the value of items at a yard sale/ estate sale?

Todd I am talking about the McKinley. I haven't really followed the facts on the T206. The thread is confusing because people seem to go back and forth on which of the two cards they are talking about, and I guess I just did the same thing. Clearly, the McKinley seller had no idea what he or she had.

[Rollingstone206]

...

[freakhappy]

Roughly a year ago one board member (Jerry) found and bought a Brown Old Mill on ebay for $50. Should he contact the seller and offer him $5,000 in order to do the moral thing?

I agree with Leon when he stated that if someone listed a BIN wrongly, he would be ok with canceling the transaction, but an auction is a different story...Jerry won this card via an auction, so I believe you have to throw this example out the window.

I have won more than one BIN at a steal of a price and have both waited a day or two for the seller to contact me to cancel or I have contacted the seller to ask if it was a mistake. In those instances the seller was happy I understood the situation and it made me feel good that I helped them out and did the right thing.

I don't think I'm alone in my thinking when I say that some of these decisions would greatly depend on the price of the grab. If you are making $20 on the card, it wouldn't be a big deal to cancel, but if you just took a seller for 1k, I bet we would have a majority vote on people that would absolutely not return the card. Money talks, my friend....end of story.

I do think when these types of things occur and if you are the person that gets first crack at the deal, you are dealt an interesting hand. Any way you look at it, you are getting over on someone and you could make it right if you choose to...doesn't matter how you handle the situation, you have been dealt the opportunity to either do right and inform someone that they are about to be out some big bucks or take advantage and take something that was definitely a mistake...knowingly or not...the fact is that you know it was a mistake and could help correct it.

Just my opinion.

[MikeMankin]

The moral thing to do if winning one of these 2 cards is to contact the seller and explain to them that they erroneously priced the card, and come up with a compromise $ that works for both sides...

Anything less is just bad justification for your lack of morals in the case of a severely under-priced card.

Now, getting a good deal due to your knowledge of condition/scarcity of a card is fair game and the buyer should not have to pay back the difference of the purchase price. JMO

Of course, many people are focused more so on $ and not so much on morals....And that's ok but don't pretend that your purchase is morally sound...

Who are you to dictate morality to anybody? Everybody draws their own line and has to live with that choice. But to tell me what is moral and what isn't, who do you think you are?

This whole subject is very simple. It is all about where each of you personally draw the line. Is it drawn at a dollar amount? a percentage? does it depend of how much the seller is into the item? (which nobody knows except the seller) knowledge or lack of by the seller? a clerical mistake? It all depends on your individual morals or thoughts, not what somebody else wants to dictate to you what their morals are. None are right or wrong!

[chernieto]

One could argue this would be stealing...I'm pretty sure JC would not make the argument "Hey it's their fault they didn't know what they were selling, Nice buy!" (followed with a high-five)...

Again, I don't think you have the LEGAL obligation to return card, but don't try to make a MORAL justification for completing this transaction....

My wise wife always kicks me under the table to prevent me from talking about religion.
That said I simply can't imagine JC buying baseball cards on ebay, but I am no expert on religion.

[ullmandds]

SO you heard it here folks...as if it's not hard enough to find fair deals on ebay for vintage cards...now if a card appears too "fairly" priced...it is now your responsibility to determine if the seller made a mistake or if they aren't educated enough to know what they are selling...and then contact the seller to discuss and hone his pricing strategies.

[Centauri]

My 2 cents: if I got a deal on eBay where I paid 80 when the card was "worth" 120, I would consider that a win. If I paid 10 bucks for a card worth 10,000, I would be closer to stealing, in my mind - I would really struggle with it. Same at a yard sale. If they were selling a Picasso for 10 bucks, I would not buy it until I made sure they were aware of what they had first.

In the case of he McKinley, I would have emailed the seller before buying.

[bobbyw8469]

SO you heard it here folks...as if it's not hard enough to find fair deals on ebay for vintage cards...now if a card appears too "fairly" priced...it is now your responsibility to determine if the seller made a mistake or if they aren't educated enough to know what they are selling...and then contact the seller to discuss and hone his pricing strategies.

I did that one time at a card show. The guy was selling a 1948 Leaf John Wagner as a common. I promptly told him that it was actually a Honus Wagner, and he proceeded to charge me more. Now am I to be blamed for telling him of his error or is he to be blamed for charging me more? Sorry, but I am an educator, not an "opportunist". I also recently got kicked out of a facebook baseball card group for pointing out a member's fake card. That being said, I wouldn't change a thing in either instance.

[vintagetoppsguy]

SO you heard it here folks...as if it's not hard enough to find fair deals on ebay for vintage cards...now if a card appears too "fairly" priced...it is now your responsibility to determine if the seller made a mistake or if they aren't educated enough to know what they are selling...and then contact the seller to discuss and hone his pricing strategies.

I don’t think anybody is saying it’s a buyer’s job to educate a seller on what they’re selling. That’s ridiculous. If the buyer doesn’t know the value of the item they are selling, shame on them for not doing their homework. This was not the case with the Lenox card. It was a pricing error. If you think it’s ok to take advantage of the situation on a pricing error, so be it. As someone stated earlier, everyone has draws their own line on morals. I just hope that if you ever make a mistake, someone shows you more compassion than you’re showing this seller. Good luck.

[tschock]

I don’t think anybody is saying it’s a buyer’s job to educate a seller on what they’re selling. That’s ridiculous. If the buyer doesn’t know the value of the item they are selling, shame on them for not doing their homework. This was not the case with the Lenox card. It was a pricing error. If you think it’s ok to take advantage of the situation on a pricing error, so be it. As someone stated earlier, everyone has draws their own line on morals. I just hope that if you ever make a mistake, someone shows you more compassion than you’re showing this seller. Good luck.

I've asked this before (regarding the Lennox). I did not see where it was pointed out that this was a "pricing error" as opposed to the seller not knowing what they had. This is just an assumption people are making. The only evidence someone pointed to indicate that it was NOT a pricing error was that ALL his T206 cards where listed at the SAME price. Anything else is just an assumption, which gets back to Peter's point about having to now know what is in the mind of the seller as well.

Can someone point me to the post that shows the seller did not INTEND to price the card at $24.95?

[vintagetoppsguy]

The only evidence someone pointed to indicate that it was NOT a pricing error was that ALL his T206 cards where listed at the SAME price.

And do you believe everything you read? No research? The seller has 7 other T206s listed. Only ONE, (not ALL) of them are priced at teh SAME price ($24.95).

I guess it's easy to post anything you want on a message board - nobody verifies the facts.

[ullmandds]

I've asked this before (regarding the Lennox). I did not see where it was pointed out that this was a "pricing error" as opposed to the seller not knowing what they had. This is just an assumption people are making. The only evidence someone pointed to indicate that it was NOT a pricing error was that ALL his T206 cards where listed at the SAME price. Anything else is just an assumption, which gets back to Peter's point about having to now know what is in the mind of the seller as well.

Can someone point me to the post that shows the seller did not INTEND to price the card at $24.95?

++++++++++++++++++1

[vintagetoppsguy]

Can someone point me to the post that shows the seller did not INTEND to price the card at $24.95?

Instead of pointing you to a post, how about a phone number? Call him and ask him yourself.

(713) 67x-xxxx (PM for it)

[ullmandds]

why don't you just post Joe O's # up there while you're at it...because I would believe anything he says.

[tschock]

I guess it's easy to post anything you want on a message board - nobody verifies the facts.

You are 100% correct on this. So where does it show this was a "pricing error"?

[vintagetoppsguy]

You are 100% correct on this. So where does it show this was a "pricing error"? I'm not sure what you're looking for? How is it supposed to show that it was a pricing error? What do you want to see?

The only way to know is to call the seller and ask him. If you know of another way, please share.

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Guys - It seems wrong to post someone else's phone number on the board without their consent.

[Leon]

Guys - It seems wrong to post someone else's phone number on the board without their consent.

Agreed and taken care of. Please don't post phone numbers besides a business unless the person gives their approval first.

[chernieto]

I'm not sure what you're looking for? How is it supposed to show that it was a pricing error? What do you want to see?

The only way to know is to call the seller and ask him. If you know of another way, please share.

What else could the seller say? It is clear he made a mistake, an error a fubar. I always thought people looked through ebay in the hopes of a deal & I never considered my morals would be called into question by agreeing to purchase an item from a seller ( of legal adult age & with over 30,000 transactions) had offered in the marketplace.
Ebay can't force a seller to ship anything. Ask them & they will readily admit that.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Agreed and taken care of. Please don't post phone numbers besides a business unless the person gives their approval first.

It was a business.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I always thought people looked through ebay in the hopes of a deal & I never considered my morals would be called into question by agreeing to purchase an item from a seller ( of legal adult age & with over 30,000 transactions) had offered in the marketplace.

I've already exlpained this to Pete, but I'll expalin it one more time. Catching a seller napping not knowing what they have (or the value thereof) is one thing. That's their fault for not doing their homework. They listed the item at a price they were comfortable with. Taking adantage of a pricing mistake is another issue.

[tschock]

I'm not sure what you're looking for? How is it supposed to show that it was a pricing error? What do you want to see?

The only way to know is to call the seller and ask him. If you know of another way, please share.

What I'm looking for is to base an opinion on the facts, not assumptions.

My assumption was that you already called him. Because you are claiming it's a "pricing error", which you and others have claimed as "fact". Or is that an assumption ? You did call him, right? Because you wouldn't just assume it was a pricing error.

See how assumptions work? Or more appropriately, don't work.

I DID go back and look at his other T206 listings, and the price on the Lennox was in line with other common front, similar condition cards. So I take back my statement on them being the SAME price. But they were similar. So there is no clear evidence either way. Which get's back to Peter's point about having to be a mind reader during effectively any transaction.

[Leon]

It was a business.

Then sorry about that....they can PM you for it or you can edit it back. I didn't know it was a business (obviously).

[bn2cardz]

Just because someone "deserved" it doesn't mean that people can't have mercy. Just as often as people don't want to be "responsible/accountable" there are people that don't know how to show compassion and mercy.

I wanted to clarify my statement after seeing so many back and forths on whether it is ok to get a deal on ebay (or other avenues). My statement about having compassion and mercy is in the case of a seller backing out of the deal.

If a seller (or even a buyer) backs out of a deal and uses good communication in doing so there is no reason why I would personally hold someone to it. Similar to a person returning items to their local store, or a cashier pointing out that an item was on the wrong shelf and the price is not what the customer thought it was. Every situation is a case-by-case scenario and I wouldn't judge either person in this matter since I don't know the full story, and I am not qualified to be a judge.

[BleedinBlue]

I just want to point out that at no time has the eBay seller attempted to contact the buyer and despite the item being listed as "shipped", the USPS has no tracking information on the package.

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.

[Sean]

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.


+++++1

[tschock]

I just want to point out that at no time has the eBay seller attempted to contact the buyer and despite the item being listed as "shipped", the USPS has no tracking information on the package.

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.

The only obligation the ebay seller has is to complete the contract as agreed upon with the ebay buyer (as loosely enforced as these contracts may be).

If the ebay seller got a 'steal of a deal' on the card from the original seller, he has no 'obligation' to the original seller, however I would find it hypocritical to expect the ebay buyer to 'understand' or come to a new agreement with the ebay seller if the ebay seller was not willing to recompense the original seller as well. I'm not saying it's right or wrong, just hypocritical (IMO).

[vintagetoppsguy]

I still want to know what the eBay seller paid for the card and if the board thinks the eBay seller has an obligation to go back and correct the earlier transaction if he purchased the card at a common price.

It depends on how the previous transaction occured. If the previous seller approached the buyer (who is now the seller) and said, "I have this card and I want $20 for it" and the the buyer purchased if for that amount, that goes back to what I've been saying over and over - it's a seller's responsibility to do their own homework to know what they're selling and the value. There is nothing to "correct."

Now a question for you. If you do believe the buyer has an obligation to go back and "correct" the earlier transaction, how far back should the correction go? Should that person go back and correct the person he purchased it from and so on and so on? How far back do we go to make it right in your book?

[packs]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. A seller who lists something for sale at a certain price should have no expectations about receiving a different price for their item.

I don't know what all this talk about mistakes is. Sure, people get busy and move quickly. But these are adults and no one needs to hold their hand in my opinion. You make a mistake, you own up to it. I see nothing reasonable about wanting to get out of a deal because you didn't know what you were doing.

[ullmandds]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. A seller who lists something for sale at a certain price should have no expectations about receiving a different price for their item.

I don't know what all this talk about mistakes is. Sure, people get busy and move quickly. But these are adults and no one needs to hold their hand in my opinion. You make a mistake, you own up to it. I see nothing reasonable about wanting to get out of a deal because you didn't know what you were doing.

Bless you and your opinion!!!!;)

[frankbmd]

It depends on how the previous transaction occured. If the previous seller approached the buyer (who is now the seller) and said, "I have this card and I want $20 for it" and the the buyer purchased if for that amount, that goes back to what I've been saying over and over - it's a seller's responsibility to do their own homework to know what they're selling and the value. There is nothing to "correct."

Now a question for you. If you do believe the buyer has an obligation to go back and "correct" the earlier transaction, how far back should the correction go? Should that person go back and correct the person he purchased it from and so on and so on? How far back do we go to make it right in your book?

I wouldn't go farther back than 1909, but at some point you are going to encounter a dead seller. Then do we have to bring his heirs into the discussion. This could get very complicated.

"Reductio ad absurdum" I maintain is a valid argument.;)

[packs]

For members who think a seller is reasonable in saying they made a mistake and the listing was incorrect only after an item has sold, I have a question for you.

If you sold something to me and then I get buyers remorse and come saying I didn't mean to bid that amount so I'm not paying, how do you feel about that? Do you think I should pay what I bid?

Another scenario. You're a seller. You sell me a card. I find out the next day that the same card sold for less money. Now I want you to reduce my winning bid because the card sold for less. Am I being reasonable?

[glynparson]

If the price were low due to seller not knowing or being lazy then it is his fault. If it was a mistake of some sort by an employee or he mistakenly left it in at $25 instead of what he was going to list for than I think he should be allowed to back out. We all make mistakes, I would ship the card but that does not mean I expect someone else should have to do this. I would understand especially if this is his vocation that the extra money may make a huge difference to this person and I would not feel right capitalizing on a mistake. If all the facts come out I would more easily be able to form my opinion. Until that time i see reasonable examples on both sides.

not sure where i was going with thread title lol.

[pbspelly]

Someone may already have posted about this, but from a legal perspective (as opposed to an ethical one), a lot depends on (a) the knowledge of the buyer and (b) the reason that it was underpriced (i.e whether it was a clerical error or a misunderstanding about the value of the card). The following is copied over from an online legal site (and is thus not intended as legal advice from me):

Unilateral Mistake

A unilateral mistake is a mechanical error of calculation or perception concerning a basic assumption on which the contract is formed. For example:

The Boston Red Sox and Ramon Garcia orally negotiate a contract where Garcia will play for the Red Sox and the Red Sox will pay him $15,000. During the negotiation, Garcia thought he heard the Red Sox say $50,000. This is a unilateral mistake.

The general rule involving unilateral mistakes is that, if the non-mistaken party either knew or should have known of the other party’s mistake, the mistake is a “palpable unilateral mistake” which makes the contract voidable by the mistaken party. For example:

The Pentagon is accepting bids from ship building companies to build a new aircraft carrier. Ten different companies submit bids. Nine of those bids range in price from $140 million to $150 million. The tenth bid, belonging to Seven Seas Shipbuilding Inc., comes in at $43 million. The Pentagon quickly signs Seven Seas to the contract. The next day, Seven Seas reviews its bid submission and discovers some calculating errors that resulted in their bid being $43 million when it should have been $136 million. In this case, the contract will be voidable by Seven Seas. The fact that there was a $97 million difference between Seven Seas’ bid and the next lowest bid should have been a clear indication to the Pentagon that Seven Seas had made a mistake somewhere. Therefore, the Pentagon either knew or should have known that Seven Seas made a mistake. That being the case, the mistake was a palpable unilateral mistake and Seven Seas can void the contract. See M.F. Kemper Construction Co. v. City of Los Angeles, 37 Cal.2d 696 (1951).

Please note that palpable unilateral mistakes will only make a contract voidable if the mistake is a mechanical error (ex: mistakes in calculation or perception). Mistakes in judgment as to the value or quality of an object will not make the contract voidable. For example:

George is the owner and manager of Babe’s Baseball Memorabilia. Mickey is rummaging through his attic one day when he finds a baseball bat signed by Ted Williams. Mickey, who is not a sports fan, has no idea who Ted Williams is but he remembers that there is a baseball memorabilia shop a few blocks away that buys things with signatures on them. Mickey brings the bat to George who offers Mickey $200 for it. Mickey gladly contracts with George to sell the bat for $200. A few weeks later, Mickey is telling Roger, an avid sports fan, about the bat and Roger informs Mickey that the bat was worth $5000. Unfortunately for Mickey, the contract he made with George is enforceable because Mickey’s mistake was not a palpable unilateral mistake. It was simply a mistake in judgment as to the value of the bat.

If the non-mistaken party either did not know, or had no reason to know, of the other party’s mistake, there is a binding contract.

Several modern cases, however, have determined that if the mistaken party notifies the other party of the mistake before the non-mistaken party relies on the mistake, the mistaken party can rescind the contract.

[wolf441]

I don't know what all the fuss is about. A seller who lists something for sale at a certain price should have no expectations about receiving a different price for their item.

I don't know what all this talk about mistakes is. Sure, people get busy and move quickly. But these are adults and no one needs to hold their hand in my opinion. You make a mistake, you own up to it. I see nothing reasonable about wanting to get out of a deal because you didn't know what you were doing.

+1. It seems like the seller moves a decent amount of product and in this case, a valuable card slipped through the cracks. If I was the buyer, I would be pretty pissed off if the seller tried to reneg after the transaction was completed. I'm pretty sure that if the OP didn't raise the subject right away, the card would have already been shipped.

[Republicaninmass]

+1. It seems like the seller moves a decent amount of product and in this case, a valuable card slipped through the cracks. If I was the buyer, I would be pretty pissed off if the seller tried to reneg after the transaction was completed. I'm pretty sure that if the OP didn't raise the subject right away, the card would have already been shipped.



Thanks to the OP, we know you cant even out auctions...until the card is in hand

[Pat R]

Thanks to the OP, we know you cant even out auctions...until the card is in hand

That was a mistake on my part, I was browsing the sold listings when I saw
it on the second page. It usually takes two or three days after the sale for it
show up. I had just made a purchase from this seller who shipped the card
the next day. If I had known the card hadn't been shipped I would have waited to post about it.

P@trick R0.m0lo

[GoCubsGo32]

Very interesting topic.

I might be missing something but...

IF there was an error in the listing...Why didn't the seller contact the buyer within 12-24hrs of the auction ending about the error? IF that was the case, I would think, they would promptly do so, to inform the buyer since it is a $1,200 error. In fact, how come the buyer hasn't been contact yet..still..??

Like I said, I could be missing something...but how does the buyer even know the seller made a mistake until the seller contacts the buyer? :confused:

Did Net54 really step in to stop this transaction from happening?

It seems to me, that the seller was ready to ship the item since he had already paid for the postage and printed USPS label off eBay...

[nolemmings]

Did Net54 really step in to stop this transaction from happening? It seems to me, that the seller was ready to ship the item since he had already paid for the postage and printed USPS label off eBay...

Not only that, he left buyer positive feedback three days after the transaction-no mention of error.

[slidekellyslide]

Not only that, he left buyer positive feedback three days after the transaction-no mention of error.

My feedback I leave is automated...once a buyer pays for an item the system automatically leaves feedback for me. Perhaps that's what happened in this instance?

[nolemmings]

That could be, Dan. I just noted that the feedback occurred three days after the BIN was hit, and apparently the error was not spotted or the seller still allowed payment and for feedback. I assume that even if feedback was automatic, he could take steps to change it for a specific transaction, but I don't know.

[BleedinBlue]

That could be, Dan. I just noted that the feedback occurred three days after the BIN was hit, and apparently the error was not spotted or the seller still allowed payment and for feedback. I assume that even if feedback was automatic, he could take steps to change it for a specific transaction, but I don't know.

Feedback was left on Monday, 5/19, the same day that the seller purchased postage. Payment was required immediately after hitting BIN on 5/17.

Post office still does not have any tracking information available and delivery was esimated as 5/21. Seller still has not contacted buyer.

[slidekellyslide]

Feedback was left on Monday, 5/19, the same day that the seller purchased postage. Payment was required immediately after hitting BIN on 5/17.

Post office still does not have any tracking information available and delivery was esimated as 5/21. Seller still has not contacted buyer.

I believe you can set up your automatic feedback to be left at different times...it can be left immediately upon payment (like mine is), left when shipped (when label is printed), or left once you receive feedback.

[dabigyankeeman]

As a Yankee collector, i HATE beyond belief when someone identifies a GIANTS card as a YANKEE card. Either its total stupidity or they do it on purpose to either fool people that dont have knowledge or to get people to look at it.

I understand what you guys are saying about the Lenox back and the value, i am just bringing up a different error in that listing. Its such a bugaboo of mine. The guy really didnt know what he had.

[birdman42]

FWIW, the seller had sold another Seymour, in better condition, the week before, also for a BIN of $24.95. Sweet Cap back, though.

Bill

[BleedinBlue]

After 3 weeks of non-response from the seller to e-mails and no-delivery of the card the seller has finally surfaced. They have refunded the buyer of the card and informed them there was a pricing error. When asked what the correct price is because the buyer was still interested in the card the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.

I hope that wasn't a Net54 member.

[ZachS]

the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.



http://ionegiantmag.files.wordpress.com/2014/05/tumblr_inline_mzco55qydc1r633o7.gif?w=280&h=158

[bn2cardz]

After 3 weeks of non-response from the seller to e-mails and no-delivery of the card the seller has finally surfaced. They have refunded the buyer of the card and informed them there was a pricing error. When asked what the correct price is because the buyer was still interested in the card the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.

I hope that wasn't a Net54 member.

As much as I can have sympathy for a seller who would like to get out of a sale on an item that had the wrong price on it. This seller wouldn't get any sympathy from me. I only can sympathize with someone who is open in their communications with the buyer from the beginning and in no way should the card be sold to someone else in the mean time without it being offered to the original buyer for a more fair price for both the buyer and seller.

[Runscott]

I wouldn't go farther back than 1909, but at some point you are going to encounter a dead seller. Then do we have to bring his heirs into the discussion. This could get very complicated.

"Reductio ad absurdum" I maintain is a valid argument.;)

I've tried that with a few good deals I got, going both backward and forward. It's an interesting exercise. The result is generally that everyone made money commensurate with the role they had in moving the product. I once bought a very valuable item for $100 after haggling with the seller for a while. He was happy, and even told me he made a small profit. I later found out the item was very valuable - do I go back and give the seller a cut? Does he go back and give the guy at the flea market a cut? Does the guy at the flea market go back and give the little old lady a cut? Here's the kicker - the guy I sold it to made more than anyone. Does he give ME a cut? bwahahaha

[jandr272]

When asked what the correct price is because the buyer was still interested in the card the seller informed the buyer that he had already sold the card to the person who notified him about the pricing error.

All that haughty-taughty preaching for the poor old seller and the truth is the whole thing was pretty underhanded and slimy!

[DoctorK]

Is the McKinley being offered on page 24 of the upcoming REA auction the same McKinley discussed here?

[scooter729]

Is the McKinley being offered on page 24 of the upcoming REA auction the same McKinley discussed here?

Yep, I believe that is one and the same!

[Peter_Spaeth]

Yeah. Wonder if the seller reneged or if the consignor actually has $9 into it.