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JamesGallo
05-14-2014, 03:31 PM
I realize he mostly deals in Boxing but it is vintage related.

I recently asked very directly if the following card was trimmed

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=261477748969&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:US:1123

He avoided the answer and just said it was in bad shape, when I pushed, he said he didn't know and to bid at your own risk. The card is clearly trimmed but I wanted to see what his response would be and if he would stand by the card. Obviously he won't and I thought his shady behavior was worth a heads up.

James G

Leon
05-14-2014, 04:02 PM
Great bidding pattern too. I know always continually raise my own bids to be higher than my previous bid. I guess it makes sense to someone?

I should also add, the trimming on top is quite pathetic. How any person can look at that and not see it's trimmed is beyond me.

sebie43
05-14-2014, 04:08 PM
I noticed this card aswell, its pretty obvious. But he never replied to me

autograf
05-14-2014, 04:30 PM
bidding pattern looks okay......
A***A bid on 5/11 and all those raises was 3***R bidding to SLOOOOOOOOOWLY top them.
Tough card from a tough set though. BUT.....bidder should be 100% up front and tell you that the card is trimmed. Although seems pretty obvious it's trimmed.....no border at top.....jagged edges......top corners pointier than bottom corners.....I'd like to have a type from that set.....
but not that one...........

wondo
05-14-2014, 05:02 PM
This dealer is one of the most knowledge and prolific boxing dealers out there. I have purchased many items from him, consigned multiple pieces and consulted with him on purchases from other dealers. If I received a piece I didn't like, I returned it no questions asked and for a prompt refund. Worked with him about eight years. He is honest and I would recommend him wholeheartedly.

That being said, I'm dumbfounded as to why he just wouldn't say the card was obviously trimmed.

nsaddict
05-14-2014, 05:47 PM
The listing clearly states 14 day return...are you saying he won't take it back? His response to you screams not to bid??

sam majors
05-14-2014, 07:14 PM
I've bought, sold and traded boxing with this dealer for years. He is top notch in my opinion! Sam Majors

Leon
05-14-2014, 09:09 PM
I've bought, sold and traded boxing with this dealer for years. He is top notch in my opinion! Sam Majors

Sounds like a great guy but what is he doing with the card in question?

JamesGallo
05-14-2014, 09:44 PM
The listing clearly states 14 day return...are you saying he won't take it back? His response to you screams not to bid??

I am saying when someone avoids answering a valid and very obvious question that is a major red flag. Especially when they should know better. If he is such a great guy and so knowledgeable about boxing cards then he should know it is trimmed and state it, if not in the auction certainly as a response when asked directly (which I did). By not doing so he completely turns me off from ever doing business with him.

As for the return policy, why buy it just to confirm something that I already know and that he should have been upfront about when asked. Just screams of bad business practices.

James G

auggiedoggy
05-14-2014, 10:23 PM
Trim? What trim? :rolleyes: :o ;)

nsaddict
05-14-2014, 10:24 PM
I never stated he was a great guy....but "when I pushed, he said he didn't know and to bid at your own risk."...this is an easy one...stay away!

glynparson
05-15-2014, 02:56 AM
you would have to be blind to not know this is trimmed, id be way more leery if it were say nm and he was saying he did not know if it were trimmed. When its described as low grade many old timers would include trimming in the category of defects that make something low grade. Remember not everyone is a slabhead and adheres to their/our vocabulary etc. I do feel he should have told James it was cut but I have seen far worse things going on in this hobby to get all worked up over this.

autograf
05-15-2014, 08:56 AM
Yeah......it's pretty obviously trimmed. The ones I hate are the ones that don't even hazard an opinion or any details about a cared (somewhat like this one I guess) and just say 'judge for yourself' or 'look at photo'. If the card looks EXMT, it can still have a crease or other issues. I will generally not bid in those type auctions because about 1/2 the time, I'm disappointed when I get the card.

Exhibitman
05-15-2014, 09:04 AM
I've done many deals w/Gary over the years, all good, so this is not directed at him but generally at sellers:

I see a growing tendency on the part of eBay sellers of creating work for buyers, and I don't like it:

Allowing returns [which is really not a choice given eBay/Paypal policies] is not the same as being informed about your inventory. I am really tired of sellers trying to substitute a return policy for information. "If it is fake/trimmed/altered then send it back" is a lazy answer IMO. Buying a card, getting it, being disappointed, then packing it up and sending it back is a huge pain in the ass. I don't need that kind of hassle.

I am not pleased with the tendency of some autograph sellers to offer your money back if it fails to pass PSA/DNA or JSA or whoever instead of having the item evaluated then selling it w/cert at a higher price. I want to buy the item, not a project.

frankbmd
05-15-2014, 10:14 AM
Isn't anyone concerned about the shaving cream on his chest?:eek:

jbsports33
05-15-2014, 10:42 AM
I agree with Adam, done a lot of deals with Gary over the years - he does not do a lot of grading unless the card is already done for him, and that issue can be tricky

Keep trying to contact him and I am sure this will get taken care off, I am sure he is unaware you are even posting this

Jimmy

nolemmings
05-15-2014, 10:59 AM
Isn't anyone concerned about the shaving cream on his chest?:eek:

I saw that too Frank-- big blotch of paper loss/oatmeal on his chest that is not in the description either and someone is worried about the failure to disclose obvious trimming? Hardly seems like seller is trying to pull a fast one here, IMO.

D. Bergin
05-15-2014, 11:07 AM
I don't know guys, there's a big picture right there of the front and the back of the card. Not sure what the issue is here. Only thing that should be important once you see the card is whether it's Authentic or not. It's obviously a beater. :confused:

Leon
05-15-2014, 11:09 AM
I saw that too Frank-- big blotch of paper loss/oatmeal on his chest that is not in the description either and someone is worried about the failure to disclose obvious trimming? Hardly seems like seller is trying to pull a fast one here, IMO.

Not pulling a fast one but too careless, imo. The lack of disclosing the trimming, as an oversight as it may be, is still very careless. So the fact he made 2 mistakes instead of 1 makes it ok, right Todd?

D. Bergin
05-15-2014, 11:15 AM
Not pulling a fast one but too careless, imo. The lack of disclosing the trimming, as an oversight as it may be, is still very careless. So the fact he made 2 mistakes instead of 1 makes it ok, right Todd?

I think he disclosed the trimming by showing two great big pictures of the card in the description.

Maybe I'm more forgiving because I remember the pre-internet days of SCD, and no pictures of cards, relying just on a written description, and ordering a VG/EX 1958 Mickey Mantle from a dealer when I was in high school, and having it show up in the mail, looking like that Attell card.

nolemmings
05-15-2014, 11:22 AM
Hi Leon,

I'm not going to pound very hard on a guy for failing to disclose paper loss that is plain as can be, and that is far more distracting than what is an obvious trim job also. I suppose if he were to outright deny it if asked I would be steamed, same if he outright denied the trim. Was it careless to not mention these things in the description? Maybe, even though again they are obvious, it would be nice to have such flaws noted. Is it worse that he did not admit it when asked? Sure. Still, I would still not turn my back on this seller or consider him shady based on what happened with this one card is all. I agree with glynnparson on this and wanted to add that the paper loss makes it even less of a big deal in my view.

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTYwMFgxMjAw/z/aFwAAOxyc2pTaocb/$_57.JPG

Leon
05-15-2014, 11:33 AM
I don't know guys, there's a big picture right there of the front and the back of the card. Not sure what the issue is here. Only thing that should be important once you see the card is whether it's Authentic or not. It's obviously a beater. :confused:

Sure thing...and this response he gave to the OP is fine too?

"He avoided the answer and just said it was in bad shape, when I pushed, he said he didn't know and to bid at your own risk."

Yeah, obviously a great seller.

th38larg
05-15-2014, 06:24 PM
Speaking from my own experience, I've bought a number of things from the seller and have always been satisfied. He has good stuff at good prices, he mails quick, provides good pictures, etc. This dust-up is not indicative of how he typically works IMHO.

1880nonsports
05-16-2014, 11:19 AM
buying and selling for nearly 15 years and it's always been on the up and up. I don't know about the email exchange relative to the OP's inquiry. I will say that Gary is a bit lax/lazy about his eBay listings - something I see more and more with sellers putting the onus on THE BUYER by posting a pic or two and saying the picture is part of the description when it is the ONLY description. LAZY. Hate it whether there are returns or appologies. Maybe something was said in the email exchange - something rubbed one of the parties the wrong way - I can't say. That the card is imperfect however - is easy to see. To me it's a weakness related to selling strategy and practice on the seller's part but obviously he wasn't trying to be deceptive.