Crosley Field Seats-What am I Missing?

[Dave Grob]

Maybe I’m missing something so I’ll post these images here to garner some feedback. I recently was engaged in communication (telephonic and e-mail) with a dealer of stadium seats who has been in business for around 30 years (web site, hobby/industry references etc) and I was asking for his help in obtaining an aisle seat from Crosley Field. The style of seat I am looking for is very similar in design to those at old Comiskey Park.

I called him as it appears I was using an incorrect term as I referred to what I was looking for as “figural end” as opposed to what he told me I should be calling it, a “radiator design.” I thought this might have been the crux of the disconnect so I told him I would send the images I had. He informed me I could send the images, but they would not change his mind as he has seen these types of photos and they are “misidentified” and “misinterpreted.”

After seeing the various images (exact same ones posted here) the dealer in question told me in no uncertain terms that this style seat was never installed in Crosley Field and this remained his unwavering unwavering opinion. To make sure I am capturing his sentiments accurately, these are his exact words via e-mail:

“Good luck my friend those are Comisky Park seats”

“Never where in Crosley Field.I've seen other seats in many photo's that are not accurate.Nobody,I mean nobody as ever come across a seat of this style ever coning out of Crosley Field”

“Not Crosley Field.”

“Ask the other seat dealers,and they will tell you the same thing.”

I have annotated the images so the source is apparent. As someone with a professional background involving imagery analysis, source data is a critical component in evaluating the veracity of what an image portrays. Part of this process often involves looking at multiple images, from multiple sources, from multiple angles, at various times. In this case I feel I have done that as the images in question are attributed to Crosley Field by three separate sources over a six year span of time:

-1st Night Game , May 1935 with the source being the engineer who helped design the lighting system for Crosley Field.

-April 1940 with the source being an AP Wire photograph of a documented rain out at Crosley Field.

-Opening Day 1934 at Crosley Field with the source being a photograph taken by a Cincinnati Post Staff Photographer.

I feel I have also ensured the image quality and discerning characteristics in question are readily apparent and discernable when comparative analysis is conducted (photograph of CREDS aisle logo design and spacing between the legs of the seats).

If you have other or similar photographs, please post them or contact me. Additionally, if have similar evidence that shows how or why these photographs should not be attributed to Crosley Field, I would welcome that information equally as well.

Dave Grob
DaveGrob1@aol.com

[Scott Garner]

Hi Dave,
This stadium seat "expert" is certainly an opinionated oddball.
How could he refute the overwhelming evidence that you sent him.
Very strange! :rolleyes:

[Dave Grob]

Scott,

Part of the reason I have posted this information here is to subject it to public scrutiny for evaluation and consideration. I have already been informed that this seat end is probably best described as “Heywood-Wakefield figural” and this is helpful information.

From a research/logic standpoint, it is a fact that the seats in these pictures feature a design not previously associated or commonly accepted as being installed in Redland/Crosley Field. The question to be asked and answered to dispute my findings is “these photographs are not from Crosley Field and could not have been taken in Crosley Field because…..”

This would support the counter position because then it could be objectively offered that “these are not Crosley Field seats because the photographs are not from Crosley Field.” This goes back to what I provided about the value of using multiple images, from multiple sources, over various points in time. In this way you are not relying on a single data point which also creates the possibility for a single point of failure in the research or argument.

This the seminal issue, and it has nothing to do with how long someone has been in the business or that no one has ever seen on of these and attributed it to Redland Field/Crosley Field. On the contrary, they may have been seen, but simply identified as being a Comiskey Park seat instead based on the information being proffered at the time.

Dave Grob
DaveGrob1@aol.com

[Scott Garner]

Scott,

Part of the reason I have posted this information here is to subject it to public scrutiny for evaluation and consideration. I have already been informed that this seat end is probably best described as “Heywood-Wakefield figural” and this is helpful information.

From a research/logic standpoint, it is a fact that the seats in these pictures feature a design not previously associated or commonly accepted as being installed in Redland/Crosley Field. The question to be asked and answered to dispute my findings is “these photographs are not from Crosley Field and could not have been taken in Crosley Field because…..”

This would support the counter position because then it could be objectively offered that “these are not Crosley Field seats because the photographs are not from Crosley Field.” This goes back to what I provided about the value of using multiple images, from multiple sources, over various points in time. In this way you are not relying on a single data point which also creates the possibility for a single point of failure in the research or argument.

This the seminal issue, and it has nothing to do with how long someone has been in the business or that no one has ever seen on of these and attributed it to Redland Field/Crosley Field. On the contrary, they may have been seen, but simply identified as being a Comiskey Park seat instead based on the information being proffered at the time.

Dave Grob
DaveGrob1@aol.com

Dave,
Good explanation and understood. Good luck finding your answers.
We have some smart people on net54 that can possibly help...

[RTK]

I found this on a metal detecting forum, the photo had an interesting story to go with it. metaldetecting.com

http://metaldetectingforum.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=258030&stc=1&d=1391742274

[mrozie21]

Haywood-Wakefield was the manufacturer of the seat as well as quite a few of the stadium in the early 1900's. I've always called this figural an "art deco" style over the years and I know that Comiskey Park, Tiger Stadium and Boston Gardens have all had the exact same figural end.

[Dave Grob]

I believe these “Haywood-Wakefield” style aisle seats were phased out gradually and not replaced all at once, but rather as renovations were being made at Crolsey Field. I suspect the first place this was done were the field boxes behind the home plate area and then radiating out along the left and right field lines. I would also offer that these seats, given the time frame we are looking at, were probably last painted green as opposed the reddish-orange seats you see by the time of the 1940 World Series.

This has been a long term project for me, and one I wish I had more time to devote to on a continuous basis. Regrettably, there are always competing demands on my research time and my personal interest items always seem to have to take a back seat (no pun intended).

Dave Grob
DaveGrob1@aol.com

[Dave Grob]

Found another great image from the 1940 World Series showing this same style if aisle seat at Crosley Field. Source is the University of Cincinnati Archives and Rare Books Library. Image depicts Reds coach/catcher Jimmy Wilson in a home Cincinnati Reds uniform at the rail at Crosley Field speaking with Leo Durocher and actor George Raft. Will post the image when I get back into town on Tuesday.


Dave Grob
DaveGrob1@aol.com