Is this T206 Sweet Caporal Magee w/bat missing the scroll overstrike..possible scrap?

[brianp-beme]

According to the information I have encountered, this T206 Magee with bat should not exist with a Sweet Caporal 460, factory 30 back. I am enlisting the assistance of my fellow Net54 T206'ers to explain its significance...would this shift this card into another series printing, or is it some rule breaker not previously known? My brain usually suffers mini-explosions when getting too deep into the T206 set, but I know there are plenty of people here that have perhaps been waiting for a card like this for an excuse to dig even deeper.

I have spent countless hours in the past creating a thread that absolutely no one responded to...I imagine this one will get quite a bit of action (unless I have goofed somehow and just presented an incredibly beat-up, common T206).

Brian

[Leon]

You might have jinxed yourself, Brian. That being said it is "T206" so it won't die on the vine.. Any of us who have started numerous threads knows the feeling of the sound of crickets.

As for your discovery, I am not a 206 fanatic so will let those guys have at it (if they want to)

[teetwoohsix]

Interesting! Thanks for posting that.

I'll take a stab-maybe it slipped by & should have had the overprint, but they missed it? I have this one but can't tell what is under the overprint. Good catch and cool card! I'm sure someone has a better explanation than mine-

Sincerely, Clayton

[brianp-beme]

Clayton, you may have struck upon a good answer that I hadn't considered, since this Magee is currently grouped in the series that contains the Sweet Cap Overstrike.

Has Magee been found with all the possible backs in its 350/460 group? For example, are there American Beauty, Drum, Sovereign350, SweetCap350, and Peidmont350 cards known (backs which are not present in the 460 series only group)?

Brian

[tedzan]

Clayton, you may have struck upon a good answer that I hadn't considered, since this Magee is currently grouped in the series that contains the Sweet Cap Overstrike.

Has Magee been found with all the possible backs in its 350/460 group? For example, are there American Beauty, Drum, Sovereign350, SweetCap350, and Peidmont350 cards known (backs which are not present in the 460 series only group)?

Brian


First, an answer to your last ? ......Magee (bat) is found with at least 17 different T206 backs (350 & 460).

All the 350/460 series Sweet Caporal 460, Factory 30 cards were overprinted with Factory #42 and shipped to the Durham, NC plant for insertion into Sweet Cap
cigarette packs.
It's my understanding that Sweet Cap 460, Factory 30 cards were not shipped to Factory #30 in NYC.

Of course, your Magee appears to contradict this. Very interesting card you have there....and, I would say a very rare one at that.

Here's an offset Factory #42 overprinted scroll, revealing the original Factory #30 bottom line.

http://i603.photobucket.com/albums/tt113/zanted86/sweetcap460fac42ovpt30x100.jpg


TED Z

[ullmandds]

I think Dick Towle removed the scroll...the card is altered!!!:D

[iwantitiwinit]

If the missing overstrike is in fact the answer you would think the other cards on the same printed sheet the magee was printed on are also missing that overstrike. Wonder if there are specimens of other players missing the same overstrike though Ted's explanation if correct (and he knows better than I) that Sweet Cap 460, Factory 30 cards were not shipped to Factory #30 in NYC might tell us its not a missing overstrike situation.

[mrvster]

Brian....

Clayton nailed it.......the card looks like it missed the factory over strike design ornate bar and factory 42 designation strike at quality control in production....card is obviously factory cut(altho beat to hell).....and is totally plausible to miss an overstrike( similar to the yellow brown printer scraps with the s.c. 460 f. #30 design).....not sure about how amer litho dealt with the overstrike and shipping???:confused:....I haven't read anything on it but interesting Ted....

we see the "missed" strike like Ted showed....I haven't seen any factory issued missing the strike completely ??

these are just my theories....no fact to back it up...

[brianp-beme]

Thanks for the responses so far guys...to me it seems like the missing overstrike is the most plausible explaination for the card, but would like to hear more. I changed the title of the thread to entice and seduce any others who have not already fallen under sway of such heady matters.

Brian

[Runscott]

I'm going to be a voice of dissension here. I agree with Ted and the OP - this card should not exist. Since it does, I'll guess that it was NOT factory-cut, and that it was never intended to leave the factory. We see a lot of beaters like this that we assume are factory-cut because they look just like a factory-cut beater would look. But they also look like a decently-trimmed beater would look.

[atx840]

This is likely the case Scott.

The scraps knowns as the "yellow browns" are a group of 34 cards (including Magee) that we see grouped together across many 460 brands. I believe the finished sheets of these 34 cards were printed as F30 but never cut and packed up, they were sent over to the OP print press first.

One/two of those sheets was thrown out before all the front ink layers were applied and the back F42 OP, giving us the yellow brown scraps.

It's also likely one/two finished sheets also never hit the OP press and we get natural F30s that weren't intended to be packed up.

Here is a yellow brown Magee with a F30 back.

http://i.imgur.com/V8M3mZa.jpg

[hshrimps]

No wonder there are so many people out there buying t206 beaters. Treasure hunt continue.... :D

[brianp-beme]

Thanks Chris for posting the SC460 factory 30 yellow/brown scrap of Magee. I am glad I brought my Magee card to the attention of the board...you guys certainly are able to come at (what was to me) this mystery card with angles I never considered and brought up some intriguing possibilities/probabilities concerning its production.

Keep up the good work and commentary...it has been a lot of fun to ponder.

Brian


This is likely the case Scott.

The scraps knowns as the "yellow browns" are a group of 34 cards (including Magee) that we see grouped together across many 460 brands. I believe the finished sheets of these 34 cards were printed as F30 but never cut and packed up, they were sent over to the OP print press first.

One/two of those sheets was thrown out before all the front ink layers were applied and the back F42 OP, giving us the yellow brown scraps.

It's also likely one/two finished sheets also never hit the OP press and we get natural F30s that weren't intended to be packed up.

Here is a yellow brown Magee with a F30 back.

http://i.imgur.com/V8M3mZa.jpg