1964 topps tatoos shill bidding galore bassik and morris

[sflayank]

r u guys kidding me?
heres one example
1964 Topps Tattoos Set Break BLUE Curt Flood 3.18.14
same winner...on all the stupid prices with the same underbidder
they jacked this guy big time
these werent even full size tattoos curt flood in this condition would normally sell for $5
sflayank
larry s

[hangman62]

Larry,
and your 100% sure of this..and can prove it to the Ebay president and CEO

[vintage954]

I had that same feeling a few weeks ago and posted here to see what people thought and almost got the lynch mob

[bnorth]

Don't know about shilling, but I pulled up a few completed auctions and the guy must have a cult like following. There are several bidders with over 90% bid activity and a few with 100%.

[nolemmings]

The Flood had 5 different bidders over $75, and the top three bidders all sniped in the final eight seconds of the auction as their only bids. The under-bidder has 9% bid activity with this seller and no bid retractions in the last 6 months. That is far from classic shill bidding. It seems quite a few people valued that card at much higher than $5.

[Sean1125]

We do not shill and will never shill.

I have to say Todd said it relatively well.

I think you are angry because it went for an insane number and you didn't win it (I see you posting buying rarities all the time). So why try and throw Greg and I under the bus?

To reflect on strong pricing... Do you believe these cards are shilled? The Killebrew Tattoo went for nearly $400.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1965-Topps-Set-Break-350-Mickey-Mantle-EX-MINT-3-12-14-/131133618965?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1e882c3b15
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1955-Topps-Set-Break-164-Roberto-Clemente-VG-2-16-14-/380838713343?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item58abc197ff
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1954-Bowman-Set-Break-66-Ted-Williams-VG-crease-3-19-14-/310896069271?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item4862d98a97
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-Set-Break-500-Mickey-Mantle-NM-MT-1-30-14-/131101116387?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1e863c47e3
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1967-Topps-Set-Break-581-Tom-Seaver-EX-MINT-3-13-14-/380858322774?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item58aceccf56
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1968-Topps-Set-Break-400-Mike-McCormick-EX-MINT-White-B-3-15-14-/380859796402?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item58ad034bb2
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1956-Topps-Set-Break-33-Roberto-Clemente-EX-MINT-White-Back-B-3-8-14-/131130151040?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1e87f75080
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Topps-Set-Break-475-Mickey-Mantle-MVP-NR-MINT-12-30-13-/131077872024?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1e84d99998
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1961-Topps-Set-Break-578-Mickey-Mantle-NR-MINT-3-7-14-/310885164846?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item486233272e
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1958-Topps-Set-Break-30-Hank-Aaron-Blue-Front-VGEX-C-3-9-14-/380855399726?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item58acc0352e
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1964-Topps-Tattoos-Set-Break-BLUE-Harmon-Killebrew-3-18-14-/131138538685?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1e88774cbd

[ALR-bishop]

I have a set of these. Maybe I should add them to my insurance rider :)

I ask this all the time, why did Topps call them Tattoos in 60 and Tatoos in 64 ?

[MattyC]

Heavy accusations without very strong proof.

In general, I wonder if there is a natural psychological reflex in some to see and cry shilling, so as to offset a loss at auction?

[pawpawdiv9]

LOL! maybe thats why my Mantle auto-ball is not selling-- I am not asking not enough.
Those are some really strong prices and nothing wrong with it. I only happen to speak to Sean a few times thru a PM, He seems legit for me to do bussiness with. 2 thumbs up are someone trying to run a bussiness in this decade.

[sflayank]

i did not bid on it and couldnt care less
simply showing the board that insanely ridiculous prices were paid and the 3 top bidders were all the same guys who virtually only bid on your stuff
check out the red sox logo tatoo...1/2 a tatoo should i say
172$....a joke...ive listed tatoos in that shape starting at 99 cents and didnt get a bid...$400 for killebrew? ive never seen an ungraded tatoo of mantle sell for 400...let alone killebrew

[Sean1125]

i did not bid on it and couldnt care less
simply showing the board that insanely ridiculous prices were paid and the 3 top bidders were all the same guys who virtually only bid on your stuff
check out the red sox logo tatoo...1/2 a tatoo should i say
172$....a joke...ive listed tatoos in that shape starting at 99 cents and didnt get a bid...$400 for killebrew? ive never seen an ungraded tatoo of mantle sell for 400...let alone killebrew

I know the prices were strong. All the auctions were legit.

[bobsbbcards]

Not questioning the legitimacy of the auctions one bit, but I'm truly baffled why people would pay some of these prices for raw cards that have absolutely no chance to grade higher than advertised if sent in for grading.

Take the 1956 Topps Clemente EX-MT card that was shown as selling for $390. Here's a scan:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODUyWDYzNg==/z/YOQAAOxy0NtTEmtg/$_57.JPG

Average VCP for a PSA 7 is $386.93. One sold on March 19th for $354. One sold on March 1st for $382.59.

Clearly the raw card shown is NOT a PSA 7 (6 at best, and that's debatable), yet it sells for more than one?!? Huh?

[Sean1125]

Not questioning the legitimacy of the auctions one bit, but I'm truly baffled why people would pay some of these prices for raw cards that have absolutely no chance to grade higher than advertised if sent in for grading.

Take the 1956 Topps Clemente EX-MT card that was shown as selling for $390. Here's a scan:

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODUyWDYzNg==/z/YOQAAOxy0NtTEmtg/$_57.JPG

Average VCP for a PSA 7 is $386.93. One sold on March 19th for $354. One sold on March 1st for $382.59.

Clearly the raw card shown is NOT a PSA 7 (6 at best, and that's debatable), yet it sells for more than one?!? Huh?

I would agree with an earlier statement that someone made saying Greg has a cult following.

[MattyC]

Here's what some people don't get, and I will use myself as an example to illustrate the point:

I collect something other than cards. It's not my main focus but every several months I will look to splurge on some of these items. They are readily available on ebay, often for much cheaper than I wind up spending on them. But I am not super knowledgable on the market nuances for these items; I am not sure who the legit sellers are, and who is selling knockoffs, or how prevalent knockoffs are, though I suspect quite prevalent.

So what I do, is instead of bargain hunting on ebay through various sellers of unknown reputation, I willingly and happily pay top dollar and then some to get what I want, in one shot, from one guy whom I know is 100% legit, selling legit stuff.

And if he were to run auctions, I would only buy these items from him, and slug it out with other bidders, including those like myself-- who are loyal to this guy. I know I may in some cases be paying way over what I could find these items for elsewhere, but I am too busy to learn the seller landscape and am happy to pay a fat premium for what I want and the confidence in what I am getting, when I buy from this one point of sale.

Now if this is how one guy thinks with respect to one seller of a collectible, there are doubtless legions of others with the same mindset. And though I know how to parse a good card from a bad one no matter who the seller, there are likely many guys who think about cards the way I do about this other collectible.

This explains why some guys who have built a business, a reputation, and a following on a mass scale (the Probsteins, the PWCCs, the Morris, the Novellas, etc.) seem to get bidding and action that others don't. Many people are busy with work or other things and just want what they want, and are happy to "overpay" for confidence in seller and the items' legitimacy. Other sellers who do not get the same action should look to market themselves accordingly, so that they can enjoy the same benefits of a loyal following.

[Rich Klein]

Switching to a different board and a different seller:

A PSA board "insider" posted a thread thanking Probstein for getting him a very strong price on a 1973 Clemente in PSA 9; yet no one accused the bidding on that song of being shilled yet a weekly thread seems to be created about probstein shills. C'mon now, no one thought of that with that posting.

I think Matty said it well, when people have faith and confidence in an auction house sometimes fluky things happen.

Perhaps Larry you would like to try the services of Bassik and Morris


Rich

[sflayank]

thats ok...probstein pwcc gregmorris bassik hyee heritage etc etc
if it looks like a duck its a duck

[ALR-bishop]

I would agree with an earlier statement that someone made saying Greg has a cult following.


If so, Sean, I hope it's not like that one on The Following :eek:

[nolemmings]

It appears to me that you don't know what a duck looks like. There were four tatoos that went for high prices. The guy who won the Killebrew didn't even bid on the other three--at all--so your statement that the 3 top bidders on these high-priced tats were all the same guys is false. As for the other three tats, they were the subject of high snipes placed by two guys, one of whom has a bid history of 9% with this seller-- hardly a guy who makes "virtually all" of his bids with him, so you're wrong again. He won one of the three. The other guy has a high bidding history of 73% with this seller, but he's only bid on 26 items total this past month. Four are on these tatoos and I would bet if you search the history on all the other tats he bid on several of them as well, because, geez I don't know, maybe he collects them and there was a set break?

The most important point is that the bidding by these guys were all snipes placed in the final few seconds of the auction. They did not bid before then. The whole purpose of shilling is to artificially pump up the price in hopes that some mark will keep bidding it up further. You can't do that very well now can you if you are bidding with 4-8 seconds to go--you give the sucker almost no time to see your bid and raise it. What, you hope that some guy who has not even shown up will bid in the few seconds remaining and that he will just happen to outbid you, or else you get stuck with an item you don't really want? Really? And the tatoos, which are mainly selling in the single digits but with some nicer looking commons hitting $50, are gonna motivate some shiller to throw out a $189 snipe for Norm Siebern because he's confident some sucker is going to outbid him in the last couple of seconds? Sure, that's what happened.

[MattyC]

Todd wins the internets today.

[Rich Klein]

Larry, how many of the Flood Tattoos in question do you have to sell at $5?

[sflayank]

lets see should i pay greg morris 25 for a dave nicholson thats cut in half or buy a full length nrmt one from columbia city( the most expensive dealer in town for $25)
or a frank howard for 40 or $25or 1/2 a norm cash for 31 or a full length one for 25
or a red sox logo in 1/2 for a 172....would u like to buy a full length one from me for 100 maybe u could sell it to the underbidder for 300
if u knew how to contact the underbidders like i do u would realize they will not buy anything from u for even half their top bids
all fakes

[sflayank]

he got 3500 for a set where 52 out of the 87 are cut in half
congratulations

[the 'stache]

Todd wins the internets today.

That's interwebs, Matt. Sheesh, get it right. :D

[Sean1125]

he got 3500 for a set where 52 out of the 87 are cut in half
congratulations

Hi Larry, I'd like to leave you with this thought.

:confused::confused: My marketing is effective :confused::confused:

[bobsbbcards]

Hi Larry, I'd like to leave you with this thought.

:confused::confused: My marketing is effective :confused::confused:

Not trying to quibble (much), but an effective marketer might mention the more prominent players in these two auctions (although to be fair, Sutton was mentioned in the 2nd one): B.ob F.isk

1969 Topps 4 in 1 Adair/Wilson PSA 6 EX-MINT
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-4-in-1-Adair-Wilson-PSA-6-EX-MINT-/131143657188?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item1e88c566e4)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2N1g2Mzc=/z/OkoAAOxyeR9TJ5j1/$_57.JPG

1969 Topps 4 in 1 Stange/Sutton PSA 8 NM-MT
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/1969-Topps-4-in-1-Stange-Sutton-PSA-8-NM-MT-/310901052363?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item48632593cb)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTA2N1g2Mzc=/z/1ZUAAOxydgZTJ5kv/$_57.JPG

[sflayank]

thanks bob
never know who's looking for a lee stange or jerry adair
as opposed to a mays or a rose
thats really good marketing sean:)

[Sean1125]

Never mind

Can't respond to people who completely change their ridiculous point only trying to find things wrong.

Our prices speak for themselves, we do not and will never shill. Good luck in your bidding and buying Gentlemen.

[sflayank]

proof? that u shill? explain this guy
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131151485044
the winning bidder has made 3700 bids this month 3500 with you and retracted 180 bids
a crook is a crook is a crook

[vintagetoppsguy]

proof? that u shill? explain this guy
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=131151485044
the winning bidder has made 3700 bids this month 3500 with you and retracted 180 bids
a crook is a crook is a crook

Larry,

That's still a live auction - no winning bidder (yet).

*******************************************

Sean,

Larry does however make a very valid point on this one. Bidder r***m has bid 25 times in this one auction and has 179 bid retractions in the last 6 months. You've always been very honest and I take you at your word on the shilling, however this is the type of bidder you might want to block because it he does look bad.

Regards,

[sflayank]

thanks to a fellow board members information
gregmorriscards and a stable of shill bidders on ebay are going to be suspended
in the very near future
you can look at 100s of his items....there are a dozen or more shills
he basically has a network

[ajg]

Larry. Keep up the good fight. We all owe people like you a debt of gratitude.

[vintage954]

If this is so, I am extremely disappointed. I have bought from Greg for years and always thought he was a standup guy.

[sflayank]

have no fears...im sure he'll have other ebay names that he'll sell under

[gregmorris818]

I am very disappointed and upset to read the comments this evening suggesting that I am engaging in shill bidding. This is absolutely false. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this issue with anyone who would like to contact me directly. I can be reached at 818.517.1612 or gregmorris818@gmail.com. I have detailed back-up information that I can provide upon request demonstrating that the individual in question is not a shill bidder. It seems inappropriate to post information about a specific individual in this public forum, which is why I request that interested individuals contact me directly so we can speak.

[bnorth]

I am very disappointed and upset to read the comments this evening suggesting that I am engaging in shill bidding. This is absolutely false. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this issue with anyone who would like to contact me directly. I can be reached at 818.517.1612 or gregmorris818@gmail.com. I have detailed back-up information that I can provide upon request demonstrating that the individual in question is not a shill bidder. It seems inappropriate to post information about a specific individual in this public forum, which is why I request that interested individuals contact me directly so we can speak.

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 3727
Items bid on: 719
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 95% Help
Bid retractions: 25
Bid retractions (6 months): 184
I see the bidder has retracted the bid from the auction in question. I for one would love to hear an explanation for the above bidding pattern if it is not a shill account. Let me also add at this point I am not calling you a shiller. The problem I see is when I pull up your completed auctions and go through bid histories there are several accounts with the same type of bid history as the one shown.
I also understand from PM's from other members this is a new thing in your auctions. If you do not want to answer were everyone can see your explanation please PM me.

[brewing]

I have seen Greg Morris cards consistenly get the highest prices, for no apparent reason. While I have made about 10 purchases over the past few years. Suspicion of shilling has made me either ignore his auctions or bail out quickly the past year.
Brent I ngr@m

[vintage954]

I am very disappointed and upset to read the comments this evening suggesting that I am engaging in shill bidding. This is absolutely false. I welcome the opportunity to discuss this issue with anyone who would like to contact me directly. I can be reached at 818.517.1612 or gregmorris818@gmail.com. I have detailed back-up information that I can provide upon request demonstrating that the individual in question is not a shill bidder. It seems inappropriate to post information about a specific individual in this public forum, which is why I request that interested individuals contact me directly so we can speak.


As a consistent buyer in your auctions, I think that you should post any information HERE. I purchase the majority of my set building from you and I think that the least you can do is post the info on here and not over the phone. Honestly, I hope its not true but time will tell.
I will say that your auctions are accurate, you ship your cards well, and you ship fast. Big bonus

[Republicaninmass]

I would agree with an earlier statement that someone made saying Greg has a cult following.

Especially from his consignors

[ALR-bishop]

I have never sold anything on ebay, but I have been an active buyer for some time. Over that time I have seen ebay go from a venue that heavily favored sellers to one that completely favors buyers. And I have come to see there are a lot of nutty buyers out there

If you are a big volume seller, I can believe that you might have some fanatically loyal customers. What do you do if you have a guy who regularly buys a lot of stuff from you and bids in a bunch of auction he does not win, and even retracts a lot of bids in those auctions ...and the guy is not a consignor. I guess you could block him since he might be making you look bad, but if he in fact has bought a bunch of stuff from you on an ongoing basis he could then drop a bunch of negatives on you in retaliation, and you lose his ongoing business

I do not know what the actual facts are here, but a lot of folks seem happy with this seller, and it seems like several big volume sellers have generated similar scrutiny on this board and others over time.

Makes me glad I do not sell on ebay . It would likely drive me to homicide

[gregmorris818]

The bidder has been blocked. Here are his responses to me.

http://i62.tinypic.com/8wzfk6.png

http://i62.tinypic.com/2hzh3k2.png

[nolemmings]

If you are a big volume seller, I can believe that you might have some fanatically loyal customers. What do you do if you have a guy who regularly buys a lot of stuff from you and bids in a bunch of auction he does not win, and even retracts a lot of bids in those auctions ...and the guy is not a consignor. I guess you could block him since he might be making you look bad, but if he in fact has bought a bunch of stuff from you on an ongoing basis he could then drop a bunch of negatives on you in retaliation, and you lose his ongoing business

You are exactly right Al, and once again Larry has shown that he does not know much if anything about shilling. It would be nice to examine the so-called shiller's bid on that item Larry linked, but he has retracted everything, no doubt out of anger, since his bids topped out at $48 (I was watching) and the auction is at $312 with four days to go. Looks like now he'll even have more retractions.

So let's see. The top bidder in Larry's "smoking gun" auction has bid 1% with gregmorris cards, the under-bidder has bid 2% with him, and the third-place bidder has 0% bids with the seller--yes that's right, so few of his total bids that it registers as zero. These three are at present slugging it out with several days to go. Which one or more of these is in the "network" of shillers that seller uses to jack up his prices? Seriously. Oh but wait, some nutty bidder put in twenty something bids on the second day of the auction that topped out at $48.00, then stopped bidding altogether. That's your shiller? That's artificially jacking the price up how? When several others have bid 4, 5, 7X that amount and there are still days left on the auction?

Now if this guy bid $325 and then retracted it just so he could see where the top bid was and then re-bid just under that to max out the "honest" bidder, you might have something. But there's no evidence that this is what happened here or anywhere that I've been shown. In fact, that is the type of thing that could and likely would be called to the seller's attention by those at the top, at which point seller could block that bidder. But for mickey-mouse bidding that tops out at 15 or 20% of the final hammer price, it's doubtful that retractions in that range are noticed by or matter to most people, other than those who apparently feel it their duty to bitch and call people crooks without any substantial proof.

BTW, I just saw where the lowest bidder in Larry's "smoking gun" auction bid 9 times in about 11 seconds, topping out at $5.54. He has tons of retractions. Is he another shill? I mean running the price up to five and half bucks on an item that will sell for a few hundred dollars is dastardly and must be the work of some gregmorris henchman, right?

[vintagetoppsguy]

I do not believe any shill bidding was going on. That said, I still think Greg made the right decision to block the bidder. His bidding behavior (25 times in one auction) along with his 179 bid retractions just doesn't look good, good customer or not. It was the right thing to do.

It's kind of like if you owned a brick and mortar store and you had one customer (even a good customer) that always had really bad body odor and the other customers complained because of the smell. Do you get rid of the "problem" customer to appease the other customers even though the "problem" customer really hasn't done anything wrong? I would. It may be a silly example, but my point is sometimes you have to get rid of one customer to keep the rest of your customers happy.

Greg made the right decision in getting rid of a "problem" customer even if he really wasn't doing anything technically wrong, so as to not make the situation look bad to his other customers. Right move IMO.

[4reals]

I'm observing this thread with great interest because I too have purchased many items over the years from gregmorris on the bay. Obviously, I would hate to learn I got shilled but I've always felt I had a pretty good radar when something fishy was going on and never felt anything I bid on was funky. Greg has always been great to deal with, his cards are always as described and he ships quickly. I always attributed the interest he drew in his cards to the extra time he spends on email marketing.

As a bidder (and winner) of a couple of the cut 64 tattoos I can speak directly on that topic. I purchased the Perranoski for $7.50 and the Dodgers logo for $8.50. I would put both prices in that $5 range that Larry mentioned and would have gladly paid three times that for each considering the only other examples I've seen on ebay in the past 6-7 years were graded and in the $100-$300 range. There's no way I'm spending that on a subset issue, test or otherwise, just to say I own one. I'm very happy owning a cut copy for much less.

[D. Bergin]

Bidders are retracting bids as a regular strategy now, because Ebay allows them to. Has nothing to do with shilling for the most part.

All you can do is either block them or warn them when they start messing with YOUR auctions..............but if you started blocking everybody who has a ton of retractions with other sellers nowadays, you'd be left with very few bidders.

Ebay could solve this very easily by warning or suspending bidders with multiple retractions, but they don't seem to have any interest in doing this.

[D. Bergin]

if u knew how to contact the underbidders like i do u would realize they will not buy anything from u for even half their top bids
all fakes


So you contact other sellers underbidders on Ebay, and offer to sell them stuff off-ebay, and you wonder why they don't pull the trigger? :confused:

[sflayank]

wrong
i contact the underbidders on BS auctions to see if they are real

[4reals]

How are you able to do this when ebay disguises the bidders user name?

I've often wanted to contact the winner of a lot to see if they'd sell me one of the cards in the lot. How do you do it?

[hangman62]

NO NO..Larry knows how to do that..Ive seen it before

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

I didn't know it was so easy to retract a bid I think I have done it once because I entered the wrong dollar amount. It was years ago but I thought I had to give an explanation.

[glynparson]

but if you contacted me to sell me something off eBay based on my eBay bids and I did not know you, i would tell you to go pound sand but not in such a nice way.

[bnorth]

but if you contacted me to sell me something off eBay based on my eBay bids and I did not know you, i would tell you to go pound sand but not in such a nice way.


When I sold a lot of cards on eBay I was always contacting other members to try to sell an extra card or buy one out of a lot someone outbid me on. I sold way more cards off eBay than through eBay. I still do it to buy cards once in a while. If a super rare error pops up on eBay that I want I instantly message the seller and ask if they will pull the card off eBay and sell it directly to me. The bad part is usually a fellow board member here has beat me to it.

That is funny glynparson, in the thousands of people I contacted not a single one responded like you said you would.:rolleyes:

[D. Bergin]

When I sold a lot of cards on eBay I was always contacting other members to try to sell an extra card or buy one out of a lot someone outbid me on. I sold way more cards off eBay than through eBay. I still do it to buy cards once in a while. If a super rare error pops up on eBay that I want I instantly message the seller and ask if they will pull the card off eBay and sell it directly to me. The bad part is usually a fellow board member here has beat me to it.

That is funny glynparson, in the thousands of people I contacted not a single one responded like you said you would.:rolleyes:


..........and if you offered a card to an underbidder in an auction you had nothing to do with, and they didn't respond to you.........you would assume they were a shiller?............because that's what this thread seems to be about.

[vintage954]

..........and if you offered a card to an underbidder in an auction you had nothing to do with, and they didn't respond to you.........you would assume they were a shiller?............because that's what this thread seems to be about.

I don't think that's what he just said, but nice try

[nolemmings]

C'mon Dave, you know better than that. Larry apparently knows how to crack the ebay security system for protecting bidder's ID's, but he uses this power not for any self-serving purposes but instead to protect the hobby from evil-doers. He only contacts the underbidders to see if they're "real" and if they do not respond, well then, you've got your answer now, don't you. We should be grateful for this tireless and thankless pursuit.

Seems to me we all should pitch in and lend a hand. If Larry would just share with us how to see the bidders' identities we all could take turns monitoring against shill bidding and "out" the shillers' IDs. Together we may even help stop the practice altogether. Although our collective sleuthing abilities are likely not as refined as Larry's, we can at least each do our part.

[ALR-bishop]

If a super rare error pops up on eBay that I want I instantly message the seller and ask if they will pull the card off eBay and sell it directly to me. The bad part is usually a fellow board member here has beat me to it.

:

This would be another interesting and potentially controversial topic:)

[glynparson]

Not one person thought you were a possible scammer. BS. Blow smoke somewhere else. I would especially be suspicious with the current system. Sorry I do not like to be scammed,and I gaurantee I am not the only one. What you explain also violated the agreement you made with Ebayglad to know you honor your agreements so well.

[bnorth]

Not one person thought you were a possible scammer. BS. Blow smoke somewhere else. I would especially be suspicious with the current system. Sorry I do not like to be scammed,and I gaurantee I am not the only one. What you explain also violated the agreement you made with Ebayglad to know you honor your agreements so well.

Who or what are you referring to?

[jhs5120]

A few items I've notice while reading this thread:
1. Shill bidders are difficult to spot. 95% with >150 bid retractions doesn't necessarily mean a shill bidder. It's clear to me (after reading Greg's post) that the bidder in question wasn't a shill bidder.
2. There is no mercy on this forum. Several members have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and put Greg in a hot spot with a very good customer. Even after this, members are still firing away.
3. Apparently we can contact under bidders... who knew?

[vintagetoppsguy]

A few items I've notice while reading this thread:
1. Shill bidders are difficult to spot. 95% with >150 bid retractions doesn't necessarily mean a shill bidder. It's clear to me (after reading Greg's post) that the bidder in question wasn't a shill bidder.
2. There is no mercy on this forum. Several members have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and put Greg in a hot spot with a very good customer. Even after this, members are still firing away.
3. Apparently we can contact under bidders... who knew?

4. People actually collect 1964 Topps Tattoos :D

[Harliduck]

4. People actually collect 1964 Topps Tattoos :D

Haha...I'm sorry but that is the best post on this entire thread...

[ALR-bishop]

4. People actually collect 1964 Topps Tattoos :D

Hey, I have a set :-), and for what they are apparently selling for maybe you should have.

[bnorth]

A few items I've notice while reading this thread:
1. Shill bidders are difficult to spot. 95% with >150 bid retractions doesn't necessarily mean a shill bidder. It's clear to me (after reading Greg's post) that the bidder in question wasn't a shill bidder.
2. There is no mercy on this forum. Several members have grabbed their pitchforks and torches and put Greg in a hot spot with a very good customer. Even after this, members are still firing away.
3. Apparently we can contact under bidders... who knew?

I do agree shill accounts are hard to spot because there are several reasons(excuses) that could make them a real bidder with strange bidding habits. Here are a few random bidding histories off eBay that seem strange that could be real accounts. I only copied one side so they can not be traced back to the high volume sellers they were copied from.

I also think shilling with the high volume low eBay fee sellers does not need to be done in the same way as regular sellers. With regular sellers the eBay fees would add up quick and make shilling not as profitable without bidding up to the max and retracting bids. Now the high volume sellers have very low eBay fees and any increase in the bidding is a win for them. So shilling up the to the max and retracting the bid is not the only way shilling is done.

I want to make it clear I am not calling anyone a shiller in this post just posting what I would call strange bidding patterns from different high volume sellers.

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 6036
Items bid on: 3307
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 76% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 47

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1718
Items bid on: 313
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 74% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 690


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 432
Items bid on: 336
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 87

30-Day Summary
Total bids: 176
Items bid on: 157
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 100% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 1
This person has a feedback of 391


30-Day Summary
Total bids: 1156
Items bid on: 918
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 99% Help
Bid retractions: 0
Bid retractions (6 months): 0
This person has a feedback of 366

[Harliduck]

Hey, I have a set :-), and for what they are apparently selling for maybe you should have.

I think you may be right...haha...

[D. Bergin]

I do agree shill accounts are hard to spot because there are several reasons(excuses) that could make them a real bidder with strange bidding habits. Here are a few random bidding histories off eBay that seem strange that could be real accounts. I only copied one side so they can not be traced back to the high volume sellers they were copied from.

I also think shilling with the high volume low eBay fee sellers does not need to be done in the same way as regular sellers. With regular sellers the eBay fees would add up quick and make shilling not as profitable without bidding up to the max and retracting bids. Now the high volume sellers have very low eBay fees and any increase in the bidding is a win for them. So shilling up the to the max and retracting the bid is not the only way shilling is done.






I'd like to know what these "very low Ebay fees" you are referring to are, beyond the standard 20% discount TRS sellers get.

What I see are these guys working on very tiny margins, compared to what most auction houses have to work with. I don't know how they do it without going into the red, to be honest, especially after the last Ebay fee increase that drove a few guys out of consignments entirely.

[bnorth]

I'd like to know what these "very low Ebay fees" you are referring to are, beyond the standard 20% discount TRS sellers get.

What I see are these guys working on very tiny margins, compared to what most auction houses have to work with. I don't know how they do it without going into the red, to be honest, especially after the last Ebay fee increase that drove a few guys out of consignments entirely.

I honestly do not have a clue what the fees are. I will use Probstein123 as an example. I can consign my cards through his service for less than I can list them for myself. He not only pays an employee to list and ship the cards but also has to have a place to store them. So I really doubt he like other super high volume sellers only get 20% off listing fees.

[savedfrommyspokes]

I'd like to know what these "very low Ebay fees" you are referring to are, beyond the standard 20% discount TRS sellers get.

What I see are these guys working on very tiny margins, compared to what most auction houses have to work with. I don't know how they do it without going into the red, to be honest, especially after the last Ebay fee increase that drove a few guys out of consignments entirely.

Ebay's "emerging verticals" customers typically receive better FVF pricing than the standard 20% discount. Sellers like PWCC, Probstein (likely now), battersbox, 4SC/NESC, etc. are part of this program. Some of the sellers who participate are the sellers who have their company logo appear beneath each item in the ebay search lists/screens. All of the sellers above do a minimum of $1M in annual sales, so that is likely a threshold for this program.

A friend of a friend, who oversees the emerging verticals of another ebay category, mentioned to me that the sellers noted above are part of the program and, without any specifics, told me that they do receive some sort of added discount(FVF).

The apparent theory of this program is top down approach designed to help grow various ebay categories by allowing the larger sellers to drive the growth.

Here is a link to an older article concerning this program(however, it mentions that Probstein is not receiving a discount).
http://www.ecommercebytes.com/cab/abn/y12/m08/i29/s01

To get an idea of what someone in this position does for ebay, here is a job description of an emerging verticals intern:

http://jobs.ebaycareers.com/san-jose/internship/jobid4502283-emerging-verticals-intern-ebay-jobs

[the 'stache]

Wow, I just don't understand how anybody gets that many bid retractions. Now granted I don't have the volume of activity on Ebay that some people do, but I've got an Ebay feedback score of 265 with every single win having positive feedback. And I've probably had another 100 + auctions that I've bid on, but did not win. And I've never had a single bid retraction. If I bid on something, it is with the understanding that I am making a financial commitment to pay a specified amount.