Is There A Way to Trace Back Info on Press Wire Photo With The Stamps On Back?

[GoCubsGo32]

I don't own too many "wire/media/press" photos. Only 2. Not really my focus in my collection, mostly snapshots. Always thought they were interesting but never knew much about them. I've only been in this hobby for a little more then a year and there's a learning curve,lol. I was trying to figure out a way to ID this player and maybe more information about the photo since there's no caption.Is there a way to trace back information about this photo from a news archive based on the stamps on the back? So you can potentially find the date and maybe a caption? I assume photo was taken late 1910's..early 1920's?

http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/scamehorn32/IMG_1112_zpsc24048bd.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/scamehorn32/IMG_1113_zps70eb71e1.jpg
http://i97.photobucket.com/albums/l219/scamehorn32/IMG_1114_zps26bac2cd.jpg

[thecatspajamas]

That particular stamping style dates to the 1915-20 period. Narrows it down some for you, but still leaves a lot of digging if you're trying to match it up to the original caption.

P.S. If that is the guy's last name on the back, I haven't been able to match it up to any major league player. Looks like it starts with an H for sure, and has a double-E towards the end. Any chance it could be a minor league or college player?

[bgar3]

Arnold Horween was a football and baseball player (pitcher) for Harvard around that time period. I think it may be him. He later coached and played professional football.

[GoCubsGo32]

Interesting. I think you could be right that it might be Arnold Horween. Pretty impressive.


Lance, thank you for feedback. Is this International Film Service still around? Besides googling is there another website to find news articles? If it is Arnold Horween?

I found this...but don't think it's it. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F6061FFF385F1B728DDDA10A94DA415B 898DF1D3

[thecatspajamas]

International News Service was founded by William Randolph Hearst (think Citizen Kane) in 1909 to compete with the Associated Press and United Press. It eventually merged with United Press in 1958 to form United Press International (UPI) which is still an ongoing operation.

There are a couple of pay services that allow you to view and get pdfs of old newspapers from archives they have scanned, and Google has done the same thing as well with some others that are freely available and turn up in Google searches. The trick is finding the right publication that the photo appeared in and digging down to the particular article it ran with. If it was used at all. It can be done, but is usually VERY time-consuming unless you have a good initial lead to go with (such as a publication's file stamping with a specific date) and can find where that publication has a scanned/searchable archive online.

If you're just trying to figure out if it's Horween or not, your best course would probably be to find other images of Horween that are known to be him, and compare to your photo. I'm attaching the only image that I have of him, which I grabbed off of eBay at some point (hence the big HistoricImages watermark plastered across it, so I guess that's some free advertising for them). It's pretty blurry, so probably not much help, but it's all I have.

[gnaz01]

The Fogel/Yee/Oser book is incredibly valuable for this EXACT purpose!

[batsballsbases]

The Fogel/Yee/Oser book is incredibly valuable for this EXACT purpose!
I think there is someone out there hoarding them!:D:D

[gnaz01]

I think there is someone out there hoarding them!:D:D

You may be right, Al. A Google search shows the cheapest one you can buy is a used copy from Amazon for $145 :eek:

[thecatspajamas]

Al's just sore because I didn't send him one for Valentine's day ;)

(Incidentally, I only have one copy at the moment, so if somebody's hoarding them, it ain't me).

[GoCubsGo32]

Lots of a great information and suggestions! Thank Lance!

(It may be a inside joke) but what's the Fogel/Yee/Oser? A Portrait of Baseball Photography? Is it really that valuable at $145? OR supply and demand? lol

[batsballsbases]

Al's just sore because I didn't send him one for Valentine's day ;)

(Incidentally, I only have one copy at the moment, so if somebody's hoarding them, it ain't me).

Lance<
You cut me to the quick how could you possibly think I thought it was you !;);):D:D

[thecatspajamas]

(It may be a inside joke) but what's the Fogel/Yee/Oser? A Portrait of Baseball Photography? Is it really that valuable at $145? OR supply and demand? lol

http://www.amazon.com/Portrait-Baseball-Photography-Vintage-Series/dp/0971609713/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394336372&sr=8-1&keywords=a+portrait+of+baseball+photography

It is very helpful where vintage news photos are concerned, and details the dates that many back-stampings were used. (That's where I looked up the info on yours). I would never pay $145 for it though :eek: They turn up on eBay from time to time in the $30-45 range, and are well worth it at that price if you deal with many vintage news photos.

[Runscott]

You really have to be careful with stamps. A lot of uneducated collectors date photos based entirely on stamps, even though the photo might actually be much older (obviously, it can't be newer). I just had an ebayer go after me full-frontal (with atrocious text-speak) over my dating a photo based on an attached caption. He was certain that the date-stamp he found in Henry's book overrode any other facts related to the photo. I tried to educate him, but he was a photo-Creationist and was not going to deviate from 'the word'.


If a photo has no notes, stamps, attached news-photos or typed attachments, then you have to just use your brain. That's a hard thing to hear, but our brains supposedly only operate at 7% capacity, so you've got another 93% left for common sense.
If a photo has a stamp AND a typed attachment, then again, you must use your brain, but your decision can be more educated. For instance, if the caption says "way back in 1920 when this photo was taken...", that's much worse news than if it has a 1920 date and speaks in present tense: "action fro yesterday's game at Fenway Park."
If a photo has ONLY a stamp, then unfortunately you might be stuck with dating the photo based on that bit of information. You might be sure that it's 1920's, but the stamp is 1950's, but without anything else, you aren't going to convince most collectors. If I'm certain a photo is older than it's stamp, and all I have is a stamp, I'd almost rather the back was blank.

[GoCubsGo32]

http://www.amazon.com/Portrait-Baseball-Photography-Vintage-Series/dp/0971609713/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1394336372&sr=8-1&keywords=a+portrait+of+baseball+photography

It is very helpful where vintage news photos are concerned, and details the dates that many back-stampings were used. (That's where I looked up the info on yours). I would never pay $145 for it though :eek: They turn up on eBay from time to time in the $30-45 range, and are well worth it at that price if you deal with many vintage news photos.


I'll keep an eye out on the book. Sounds like a good pickup for the $30-45 range.

You really have to be careful with stamps. A lot of uneducated collectors date photos based entirely on stamps, even though the photo might actually be much older (obviously, it can't be newer). I just had an ebayer go after me full-frontal (with atrocious text-speak) over my dating a photo based on an attached caption. He was certain that the date-stamp he found in Henry's book overrode any other facts related to the photo. I tried to educate him, but he was a photo-Creationist and was not going to deviate from 'the word'.


If a photo has no notes, stamps, attached news-photos or typed attachments, then you have to just use your brain. That's a hard thing to hear, but our brains supposedly only operate at 7% capacity, so you've got another 93% left for common sense.
If a photo has a stamp AND a typed attachment, then again, you must use your brain, but your decision can be more educated. For instance, if the caption says "way back in 1920 when this photo was taken...", that's much worse news than if it has a 1920 date and speaks in present tense: "action fro yesterday's game at Fenway Park."
If a photo has ONLY a stamp, then unfortunately you might be stuck with dating the photo based on that bit of information. You might be sure that it's 1920's, but the stamp is 1950's, but without anything else, you aren't going to convince most collectors. If I'm certain a photo is older than it's stamp, and all I have is a stamp, I'd almost rather the back was blank.


Whoa this is heavy, Doc. lol. Very informative and helpful advice. I realize it's going to take time and practice to really get better at the process. At the same time still exciting. Lots of great notes to keep in mind. I had gotten this photo in an a snapshot photo lot, didn't fit my collection since..well it's not a snapshot, but wanted to use this as "practice" to understand the wire/press photos.Especially since there was no caption, and if there was a way to track down more information just from the stamp itself.