USPS ruins a gem/ Davidssportscards

[phikappapsi]

so, I recently purchased a 1928 yuengling Gehrig PSA 7 from davidssportscards (is he on the site?)

David was excellent, provided good tracking, fast shipment after payment, no complaints... then the card arrived and USPS just murdered it. Wish Dave had budbble wrapped to prevent this from happening... I'm sure he'll issue a refund, but I'm unbelieveably pissed that this gorgeous and rare card was basically ruined (it's upper right corner is dead, and the broken slab scratched the card like crazy,)

waiting for a response from Dave on how he wants it shipped back... I assume he'll want it removed from the slab to prevent any further damage.

Just wanted to share a really depressing moment of the morning.


Edited for my full name, since I did mention his business (though not in a negative way i hope) - Joe HE.RNE

[ullmandds]

ouch! poor Lou!

[gregr2]

That is really unfortunate :(

[MyGuyTy]

Uhhhh man! That is awful to hear (and see). Sorry you had to experience this. What was the card shipped in? And can you tell it was a damaged package? That card should have definitely been bubble wrapped, I never ship without bubble wrap and usually with hard cardboard taped around it if I have it available. Man that is tough to look at :eek:

[phikappapsi]

Uhhhh man! That is awful to hear (and see). Sorry you had to experience this. What was the card shipped in? And can you tell it was a damaged package? That card should have definitely been bubble wrapped, I never ship without bubble wrap and usually with hard cardboard taped around it if I have it available. Man that is tough to look at :eek:

it came in #00 bubble mailer, which had clear tears/punctures from shipping. But the slab inside was unwrapped. and that bubble mailer was just put in a flat rate envelope. Such a waste. ruined a beautiful card. I know I'll be made whole, but Dave gets a big loss unless he insured at full value, which I hope for his sake he did

[Stonepony]

USPS incidence of damage has to be incredibly low based in their huge volumes. Still, every time I ship or receive...I say a little prayer .

[3-2-count]

Unacceptable. Bubble wrap and cardboard is always a must when sending valuables. My two cents!!

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Man that sucks. With such a high value card I would use bubble wrap and a box.

[jhs5120]

That's a shame, hopefully it was insured.

I generally use #000 and #00 bubble mailers for cards <$150. It's a risky business sending something that valuable in such a flimsy envelope.

[ruth-gehrig]

Sorry to hear! Hopefully it was fully insured!

[conor912]

USPS incidence of damage has to be incredibly low based in their huge volumes. Still, every time I ship or receive...I say a little prayer .

+1 :)

[hshrimps]

Hope the package is fully insured otherwise I am not sure who should pick up the tap.

[novakjr]

Send it back fully insured, and then say that's when the damage happened..:eek::eek: J/k I wouldn't do that. Karma has a way of coming back on you.

Such a beautiful card though. It's a shame..

[phikappapsi]

Hope the package is fully insured otherwise I am not sure who should pick up the tap.

well, it won't be me...

But, I'll provide dave with whatever evidence he needs/testimony etc to get his money from USPS... he absolutely should've packaged it better (bubblewrap, cardboard, and in a box) but he paid for priority 1-day shipping scheduled for 3/4 it arrived destroyed on 3/5.

[Rich Klein]

As to who did what; I had an interesting chat yesterday with my friend who does my shipping

Rick M mentioned how he sent him a box which was destroyed, yet the cards came through just fine. While normally I just dropped off the boxes in his office and never see him he was actually working yesterday and as we had not talked for a while I brought up Rick M's comment

He showed me cardboard and bubble wrap he uses as well in a 5000 Ct box how he puts cardboard in each side to keep cards from moving. Next (and this is a box I'm shping to Canada early next week, he takes cardboard and wraps that around the 5000 Ct box. I will tell Richard A, the box he is getting is well preserved and the USPS should not be able to hurt this in any way.

Being a former store owner, he understands the importance of proper shipping which is why I drop off all my items at his office and leave him a check.

Rich

[glchen]

For any card with a value over $500, I always use a Priority Mail Small Flat Rate box. The card inside the box is bubble wrapped. That's probably what the seller should have done instead of just mailing in a bubble mailer.

[bobbyw8469]

That is precisely why I triple wrap cards in bubble wrap before I put them in the bubble mailer. Sorry for your loss.

[seablaster]

USPS incidence of damage has to be incredibly low based in their huge volumes. Still, every time I ship or receive...I say a little prayer .

+2

At least Lou was able to save face.

Sorry...bad pun. :o

[bnorth]

Amazing card before the damage, hope it works out for everyone. With that damage I seriously doubt cardboard or extra bubble wrap would have made any difference.

[Vol]

That sucks, Joe. Seeing Lou all beat up laying on the ground, looks like a crime scene photo. :(

[phikappapsi]

so... just got off the phone with Dave, sounds like he wants to talk to USPS and open a case with them. Asked me to wait 2 days to let him get that process started.

If it were you and you were sitting on a $2500 damage, would you wait the two days, or would you open a case right away if he doesn't issue an immediate refund?

How would you all handle? This is the first time I've actually had this happen so I'm a noob in the world of getting my money back

[bnorth]

so... just got off the phone with Dave, sounds like he wants to talk to USPS and open a case with them. Asked me to wait 2 days to let him get that process started.

If it were you and you were sitting on a $2500 damage, would you wait the two days, or would you open a case right away if he doesn't issue an immediate refund?

How would you all handle? This is the first time I've actually had this happen so I'm a noob in the world of getting my money back

Since he got back to you and is only asking for a couple days I would give it to him.

[MyGuyTy]

Since he got back to you and is only asking for a couple days I would give it to him.

This^

Give him the benefit of the doubt to try and make it right with you. Then take it from there when he gets back to you.

[gregr2]

Since he got back to you and is only asking for a couple days I would give it to him.

I've never been in this situation, but this advice seems the most reasonable.

[phikappapsi]

This^

Give him the benefit of the doubt to try and make it right with you. Then take it from there when he gets back to you.

that's what I was thinking... I already sent photos through ebay messaging of the damage, and the guy has 10,000 positive feedback. I have to assume he's an upstanding guy and will get the refund issued.

[pawpawdiv9]

For any card with a value over $500, I always use a Priority Mail Small Flat Rate box. The card inside the box is bubble wrapped. That's probably what the seller should have done instead of just mailing in a bubble mailer.
I basically have turned to only using the Priority Flat rate boxes. They are FREE at the P.O. ,So Why Not??? And it only cost 5-6 bucks i think. And plenty of room for packing materials. And if its highly valuable, like 250+ I try and usually get insurance and thus makes the buyer sign for it at the door.

+1

[conor912]

Amazing card before the damage, hope it works out for everyone. With that damage I seriously doubt cardboard or extra bubble wrap would have made any difference.

+1

That thing got torqued pretty damn hard. There's no way more cardboard would have saved it. Looks like it got jammed in a sorting machine or something. Either way, two days to sort it out is a very reasonable request. You'll get your refund, just be patient.

[4815162342]

I recently filed a claim with the USPS for a small item that was damaged by the mail carrier. It took a couple of weeks, but they sent a check to the buyer for the full auction amount. As previously said, be patient.

[Sean1125]

If he has done all he can to help you until a few days have passed, then accept the answer and wait a few days.

[quinnsryche]

That SUCKS! I can't believe a guy sent a $2500 card unprotected in a bubble mailer though. That's not a very intelligent way to ship a card like that. I ALWAYS put cardboard around ANY card I ship. Why risk it?

[sycks22]

I can echo what everyone is saying about using a small flat rate box. They're free and with some bubble wrap give some stability to the cards inside. I've had cards valued at more than the Gehrig shipped in a lot less and it's scary to open the package and see how many pieces the case is in.

[bobbyw8469]

That SUCKS! I can't believe a guy sent a $2500 card unprotected in a bubble mailer though. That's not a very intelligent way to ship a card like that. I ALWAYS put cardboard around ANY card I ship. Why risk it?

Agreed!! A card that expensive should have been sent in a small 8x6x4 box and sent Registered Mail. No if's, and's, or but's.

[Runscott]

...

[kmac32]

I had a SGC slabbed E121 I sold to another board member and even wrapped in bubble and USPS cracked the slab. Fortunately the card was not damaged. This is why I now ship between two sheets of corrugated cardboard to protect the cards. So far no issues.

[slidekellyslide]

That sucks...Who sends a $2500 card in a bubble mailer? That's sheer stupidity.

[Big Ben]

That is a shame. Hope everything works out for you. :(

[buymycards]

Hey guys, you need to remember everything is automated. These packages are handled by machines, sent down long chutes into hampers that are loaded with dozens and dozens of small packages. The machines are processing 1000's of packages per hour. The only time a human touches these packages is when they are handed to a clerk at the counter and when they are delivered by your carrier. The same goes for UPS and Fed Ex. In the last couple of days our PO has received items from both of those companies that were totally mangled because the packaging was cheap and flimsy.

If you have a slabbed card, which doesn't have any flexibility, you need to protect it. Plan on having this card sitting at the bottom of a hamper with 200 other small parcels sitting on top of it. Plan on having this card fall from a conveyor belt into a chute and landing at the bottom of a plastic hamper. Plan on having this package ferried in the belly of an airplane where the temp is well below zero. Plan on having this package riding in the back of a transport truck where the temp is 10 below zero and the roads are rough. Plan on having this parcel in the bottom of a mail carriers satchel with catalogs on top of it while he is walking his route. Don't be lazy. Don't be cheap. Package it correctly and it will get to it's destination every time.

Rick :)

[Runscott]

...

[npa589]

That SUCKS! I can't believe a guy sent a $2500 card unprotected in a bubble mailer though. That's not a very intelligent way to ship a card like that. I ALWAYS put cardboard around ANY card I ship. Why risk it?


Seriously, I was shocked when this was stated. IF you choose to send an item valued this high in a bubble mailer, it takes 15 extra seconds to put between two cardboard pieces, and it is free as well. I put 10$ graded cards between 2 cardboard pieces. Over $250, I think that you simply have to put it in a box...

[Blitzu]

Looks like it got caught in one of the rollers, which if that was the case no piece of cardboard or anything short of steel would have protected it. I've worked around enough mail sorting facilities to see stuff like that happen from time to time. Anything caught in those gets instantly chewed up. A box is always a good way to go but I have seen those get flattened like a pancake too. Registered mail takes a lot longer and is handled completely separate from the general mail. Complete accountability along the way and a guarantee of arrival with insurance. It costs a pretty penny but if it's important that's how it should be sent.

[Steve D]

Looks like it got caught in one of the rollers, which if that was the case no piece of cardboard or anything short of steel would have protected it. I've worked around enough mail sorting facilities to see stuff like that happen from time to time. Anything caught in those gets instantly chewed up. A box is always a good way to go but I have seen those get flattened like a pancake too.


+1

A few years ago, I won a 1933 Sport Kings Red Grange on ebay. When I got it in Texas (from Alaska), the package (one of the padded yellow bubble mailers) was mangled. I opened it up, and the card had been put between cardboard, and wrapped in bubblewrap. Even with that, the PSA holder was broken right across the card. Luckily, the card was undamaged, and PSA later regraded it at the same grade.

Just sayin' that with valuable cards, if you want it to get there undamaged, you have to start at the minimum with a box and plenty of bubblewrap, and if possible, plenty of styrofoam peanuts also.

Steve

[rjackson44]

Omg poor lou

[the 'stache]

Joe, I'm so terribly sorry.

[phikappapsi]

Joe, I'm so terribly sorry.

hey, it happens. Like I said, im not concerned financially, that will get resolved... such a tragedy seeing a great exemplar go from NM7 to Fair2/VG3 based on just carelessness.

I think everyone on these boards treasures the history, the art, etc... it's like someone folded a Masterpiece. should send PSA a note to update the registry. Other mint examples just went up a little in value

[AMBST95]

This just makes me sad.

[Runscott]

Registered mail takes a lot longer and is handled completely separate from the general mail. Complete accountability along the way and a guarantee of arrival with insurance. It costs a pretty penny but if it's important that's how it should be sent.

For high-value insured items, registered mail is actually the least expensive USPS alternative - for me, anything over $2K gets shipped registered.

As far as other thoughts regarding bubble-mailers, boxes, cardboard, etc., it's like anything else in business - cost vs risk. Business owners have to make these informed decisions. I can tell you for certain - if ten uninsured $50 slabbed cards in bubble mailers got eaten up by the rollers today, my decision to ship cheap slabbed cards that way would still have been a good financial one. But I don't sell such items anymore.

[danmckee]

For high-value insured items, registered mail is actually the least expensive USPS alternative - for me, anything over $2K gets shipped registered.

As far as other thoughts regarding bubble-mailers, boxes, cardboard, etc., it's like anything else in business - cost vs risk. Business owners have to make these informed decisions. I can tell you for certain - if ten uninsured $50 slabbed cards in bubble mailers got eaten up by the rollers today, my decision to ship cheap slabbed cards that way would still have been a good financial one. But I don't sell such items anymore.

I used to use registered USPS for expensive items then I had a box delivered empty and you could see the finger holes where the postal employee ripped it open. He knew something expensive was inside. Collectibles lost though insurance was paid. No investigation at all even though registered needs to be signed for by everyone that touches it.

Now it is priority with signature confirmation and a 3rd party insurance so that an employee is not tempted to steal it.

[kcohen]

I used to use registered USPS for expensive items then I had a box delivered empty and you could see the finger holes where the postal employee ripped it open. He knew something expensive was inside. Collectibles lost though insurance was paid. No investigation at all even though registered needs to be signed for by everyone that touches it.

Now it is priority with signature confirmation and a 3rd party insurance so that an employee is not tempted to steal it.

Hey Dan - Why would that method lessen the employee's temptation for mischief?

BTW - I owe you a ball game. Time to start checking the schedule.

Ken

[danmckee]

Hi Kenny!

You don't owe me a thing but it would be my pleasure to attend another game with you this year.

A registered package or even insured clues the employee in that something expensive is inside.

A priority package with just signature confirmation does not necessarily hold a valuable item.

Dan

[gnaz01]

and a 3rd party insurance

How does one go about getting this??

[bobbyw8469]

Registered is the safest way to mail. If you sent it Registered, the USPS KNOWS who stole your item, and that person is fired. The package is accounted for every step of the way.

[glchen]

How does one go about getting this??

Maybe Dan is talking about Shipcover insurance through ebay?

One sad thing is I actually owned that card for a while once upon a time. not sure if others have ever felt bad if things like this happened to cards they once had.

[ooo-ribay]

I have heard trying to collect on insurance with the USPS is a nightmare. Good luck with this.

On the flip side, I once mailed an antique diamond brooch for like 88 cents in a small bubble mailer. It got there just fine. For the most part, I have a high regard for the USPS although I can't understand how they are bankrupt with the prices they charge. :eek:

[The Nasty Nati]

Sorry to hear about the Lou. Such a beautiful card.

Have to wonder if that damage would have happened had it been in an SGC case. In my opinion SGC is the closest thing to graded card kevlar. As seen in this youtube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W41b2pyLKh4

But who knows, terrible handling from USPS. I hope you get refunded for your loss.

[slidekellyslide]

I have heard trying to collect on insurance with the USPS is a nightmare. Good luck with this.

On the flip side, I once mailed an antique diamond brooch for like 88 cents in a small bubble mailer. It got there just fine. For the most part, I have a high regard for the USPS although I can't understand how they are bankrupt with the prices they charge. :eek:

They're forced to contribute to their pension fund something like 75 years in advance...no one else is forced to do this, but one of our political parties hates the post office even though it's in our constitution.

And the post office prices still beat the heck out of UPS, DHL or FedEX. Try sending a letter for 44 cents with one of those companies.

[tschock]

Try sending a letter for 44 cents with one of those companies.

I wouldn't try that for "44" cents with the USPS either. ;)

[autograf]

No question.....should have been in a box. Period. A $2.00 box with bubble wrap or cardboard around it may have spared this card.

[slidekellyslide]

I wouldn't try that for "44" cents with the USPS either. ;)

Heh...49 cents. I had to look it up...all of my first class stamps are forever stamps that I bought years ago. :D

[the 'stache]

hey, it happens. Like I said, im not concerned financially, that will get resolved... such a tragedy seeing a great exemplar go from NM7 to Fair2/VG3 based on just carelessness.

I think everyone on these boards treasures the history, the art, etc... it's like someone folded a Masterpiece. should send PSA a note to update the registry. Other mint examples just went up a little in value

Oh, I know you'll be compensated for the loss, but you were really looking forward to owning that beautiful card, and no amount of money can really make up for the disappointment. I hope you can find another just as nice, though it might take a while.

Good luck!

[I Only Smoke 4 the Cards]

Sorry to hear about the Lou. Such a beautiful card.



Have to wonder if that damage would have happened had it been in an SGC case. In my opinion SGC is the closest thing to graded card kevlar. As seen in this youtube clip http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W41b2pyLKh4



But who knows, terrible handling from USPS. I hope you get refunded for your loss.


Ridiculous video

[prestigecollectibles]

I use these boxes for shipping cards by first class mail. They are strong and secure and they fit well in the Priority Mail flat rate envelopes too.

[WWG]

Is he here.

[WWG]

Does anyone know this seller?

[Snapolit1]

Small priority mail box and some bubble wrap. Problem solved.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Why are we talking about an episode 3 years ago??

[RedsFan1941]

Why are we talking about an episode 3 years ago??

because there's nothing left to say about mayweather vs. mcgregor?

[CMIZ5290]

Why are we talking about an episode 3 years ago??

Wondering the same thing Peter.....

[thetruthisoutthere]

I stopped using padded envelopes a long time ago.

Even though I only sell a few items a month, I use a well-secured box for everything (even a single card) I sell.

[Snapolit1]

Nice Lou. Hope it wasn't ruined.

[perezfan]

Man that sucks. With such a high value card I would use bubble wrap and a box.

Agree... the tiny bit more you spend on a small rigid box is soooooooo worth it.

[WWG]

+1

[hshrimps]

ok.. i won't buy from davidssportscards in the future. thx

[Touch'EmAll]

Real bummer. Can't imagine there are many of those in that grade floating around. Sigh.

[samosa4u]

This thread got me thinking about one thing: what if the card had been in a Beckett holder, would it still have gotten damaged? I think you need a jackhammer to break it.

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a2/0e/c7/a20ec77e3cefaf612e1f4f6a47acceac--jack-hammer-orphan-black.jpg

[TistaT202]

+1


Unacceptable. Bubble wrap and cardboard is always a must when sending valuables. My two cents!!

[brianp-beme]

ok.. i won't buy from davidssportscards in the future. thx

Remember, this is a 3 year old thread. Has anyone purchased from this seller since then and can share their experiences? I would assume he learned a lesson and has changed the way he ships extra valuable cards.

Brian

[Peter_Spaeth]

Remember, this is a 3 year old thread. Has anyone purchased from this seller since then and can share their experiences? I would assume he learned a lesson and has changed the way he ships extra valuable cards.

Brian

99.99 percent of packages arrive unharmed is my best guess. As long as a seller is a stand up guy who is going to refund you in the event of damage, and with paypal I doubt the seller even has a choice, I would never boycott someone because I didn't like their packaging. I wouldn't even think about it.

[bnorth]

99.99 percent of packages arrive unharmed is my best guess. As long as a seller is a stand up guy who is going to refund you in the event of damage, and with paypal I doubt the seller even has a choice, I would never boycott someone because I didn't like their packaging. I wouldn't even think about it.

I agree, I have received many $50-$100 cards in the mail in just a PWE from fellow members. As long as the card arrives in the same condition I purchased it in I don't care how they shipped it.

[WWG]

Unfortunately we're talking about a $2,500 card, with a NM 7 population of only 8 (better make that 7).

[Duluth Eskimo]

This is a 3 year old thread. It's a moot point.

[Snapolit1]

Interesting juxtaposition to all the anguish over Christies charging $150 to ship a one of a kind museum piece across the country. Put it in the file titled "Outrage About Everything".

[slidekellyslide]

Unfortunately we're talking about a $2,500 card, with a NM 7 population of only 8 (better make that 7).

Out of curiosity why did you dredge up this old thread?

[joshuanip]

Does anyone have a contact for David’s sportscards. Unrelated to the OP. Interested in one of his cards.

[OldSchoolBaseball]

Sorry old thread. Didn’t look at date

[FrankWakefield]

x

[BillyCoxDodgers3B]

Wow, Dan. That's unsettling to hear about your experience with Registered Mail. While this method has been slow, sometimes costly and in one instance had a package go undelivered for a month, I always thought of it as being the height of safety.

Insofar as shipping slabs is concerned, I have had success in placing the slab between sheets of foam followed by either cardboard or lightweight wood on either side. Then, simply tape up on all sides and then place in the bubble mailer (and cover every square inch of the bubble mailer in shipping tape if you're using a Kraft mailer as opposed to poly).

[brianp-beme]

Does anyone have a contact for David’s sportscards. Unrelated to the OP. Interested in one of his cards.

No contact info, but just some advice...probably better next time to just start a new thread that doesn't drag up a big messy situation from 3 years ago and gets people feeling they are stuck in a time warp.

Brian

[samosa4u]

No contact info, but just some advice...probably better next time to just start a new thread that doesn't drag up a big messy situation from 3 years ago and gets people feeling they are stuck in a time warp.

Brian

+1

[joshuanip]

Sorry. My bad. Didn’t expect a cantankerous response.

[brianp-beme]

No cantanker on my behalf, just thought you might get better results by approaching this in a different fashion.

Brian (cantanker should be a word, and in my opinion definitely shouldn't get that red underlining when I type it)

[Aquarian Sports Cards]

Since this thread is multiple derails in motion I would argue that if something disorganized or messy is disheveled, then something put together well is sheveled. Red underline be damned.

[brianp-beme]

As I have always claimed, it is better to be sheveled on many levels, than to be cantankered down in the basement with the rodentii.

Brian

[perezfan]

How could you NOT use a box for a card like that???

At a bare minimum it should be sandwiched between rigid cardboard within a bubble mailer. But even that's not worth the risk. I never understand how these sellers have such faith in minimal packaging.

Best of luck with your compensation!

[brianp-beme]

I mentioned previously that this was a 3 year old thread, but actually it is a 7 year old thread. My mistake.

Brian

[Santo10Fan]

so... just got off the phone with Dave, sounds like he wants to talk to USPS and open a case with them. Asked me to wait 2 days to let him get that process started.

If it were you and you were sitting on a $2500 damage, would you wait the two days, or would you open a case right away if he doesn't issue an immediate refund?

How would you all handle? This is the first time I've actually had this happen so I'm a noob in the world of getting my money backHe is not on this board as you may have learned by now-but among legacy eBay card dealers he is well established. I bought one of the most important cards I own, this Matty Dark Cap, from him three years ago. He sent it certified mail with full insurance and it was held up at my post office. He managed to get through to someone there on a Saturday and they brought it right over to me! His experience ensures he will be just fine on his end. As long as ebay sellers cooperate, buyer refunds are virtually automatic for damages like this. These are among the reasons his prices are a tad on the high side-he doesn't skimp on insured shipping and is willing to micro-manage tough customer situations.

https://i.imgur.com/3vtv5Pil.jpg?1

[joshuanip]

He is not on this board as you may have learned by now-but among legacy eBay card dealers he is well established. I bought one of the most important cards I own, this Matty Dark Cap, from him three years ago. He sent it certified mail with full insurance and it was held up at my post office. He managed to get through to someone there on a Saturday and they brought it right over to me! His experience ensures he will be just fine on his end. As long as ebay sellers cooperate, buyer refunds are virtually automatic for damages like this. These are among the reasons his prices are a tad on the high side-he doesn't skimp on insured shipping and is willing to micro-manage tough customer situations.

https://i.imgur.com/3vtv5Pil.jpg?1

I meant to get in contact with him on a high priced card he is selling and the intent was in no way to besmirch him. My error- please let this post die off...