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frankhardy
02-22-2014, 02:20 PM
Let's say a seller has a modern, but fairly rare card for sale as a buy it now with a best offer. And let's say a buyer makes an offer and the seller accepts the offer. The seller states in his listing that the card is in "great condition", having overlooked a flaw. The buyer receives the card and notices that the card has a significant ding/bend on a corner with other corners being touched.

The buyer notifies the seller of this situation and tells him that if he would have known of the flaws, he would not have offered so much for it. The seller replies that he will give a full refund. The buyer then says that he does not want to do that and that this card will do until a suitable replacement comes along. The buyer says that when a replacement comes along that he will have to sell the dinged card, but will get less for it because the flaw will be described. The buyer says that he would rather have a modest partial refund of whatever the amount that the seller thinks is fair in order to make up for the inaccurate description. The seller then replies that he would rather issue a full refund.

Discuss

bnorth
02-22-2014, 02:40 PM
Let's say a seller has a modern, but fairly rare card for sale as a buy it now with a best offer. And let's say a buyer makes an offer and the seller accepts the offer. The seller states in his listing that the card is in "great condition", having overlooked a flaw. The buyer receives the card and notices that the card has a significant ding/bend on a corner with other corners being touched.

The buyer notifies the seller of this situation and tells him that if he would have known of the flaws, he would not have offered so much for it. The seller replies that he will give a full refund. The buyer then says that he does not want to do that and that this card will do until a suitable replacement comes along. The buyer says that when a replacement comes along that he will have to sell the dinged card, but will get less for it because the flaw will be described. The buyer says that he would rather have a modest partial refund of whatever the amount that the seller thinks is fair in order to make up for the inaccurate description. The seller then replies that he would rather issue a full refund.

Discuss

I never ask for or give a partial refund for any reason. To me it is do you want the card you received or not for the price you paid. I also think the seller is being fair offering a full refund for the card back.

sebie43
02-22-2014, 02:58 PM
I understand both sides but from a seller perspective I think its just a matter of principle. It would leave a bad taste in my mouth with somebody being semi-satisfied and I would rather do a full refund.
Seb

steve B
02-22-2014, 07:44 PM
I guess for me it would depend on what "fairly rare" meant.
A card there's a hundred of ? I probably care, one there's 10 of? Probably not.


At some point the condition matters a bit less, unless there's a huge difference in price or quality. I'm not sure just where that line is for me.
And , the reason for that is.......

While I understand a seller wanting either a totally happy buyer or to simply refund. OR that a seller might think a buyer is just lobbying for a lower price It happens, some people make stuff up. I've had a couple that claimed some sort of defect and when offered a full refund including shipping both ways just dropped it.

For me there's a range that would make me happy. If it's for instance something that's usually $30 and I offered 25 only to find a ding or crease that went beyond what would be ok for the price, I'd still actually be happy at a bit under retail for the condition.

With the exception of things totally misrepresented, or things I'd taken a chance on. I've had more of the second than the first, cards that looked good but were actually trimmed, or ones with flaws I simply missed. I don't bother even asking on those. I took a chance that something was really good and I was wrong, that's not usually the sellers fault. (Plus I've been right a lot more often :) )

Steve B

ALR-bishop
02-22-2014, 09:20 PM
Was there a scan ? Was the scan a poor one ? Was it deceptive ? That would matter to me on this question. Great condition means little to me as a buyer given the range of meaning it has in ebay offers I see

frankhardy
02-22-2014, 09:36 PM
It was a fairly poor quality digital picture with the card in a top loader and the flash glaring off of the top loader.

frankhardy
02-22-2014, 10:10 PM
I am the buyer, as most of you figured out.

I contacted the seller to try to work it out. I don't think there is anything wrong with that.

The seller (either knowingly or unknowingly) failed to describe the card properly. If this card was a card that could be had easily, it would have been a no brainer - I either keep the card or I send the card back for a refund. However, this is a very rare card - a 1994 Topps Black Gold Winner ABCD. If I send the card back, I may not see another one for a few years. So, I politely asked the seller if he would make up for his error without me sending the card back. He declined to do this. So, since this card is so scarce, I feel like I have no choice but to keep it, even though I am not satisfied with it. Positive feedback has been left, although a little reluctantly.

By the way, I am not asking for something that I have never done as a seller. I have given partial refunds in the past when I thought it was warranted.

Zach Wheat
02-22-2014, 10:42 PM
Barring any other facts I think the seller was fair in offering a full refund over a partial refund. The condition of the card and hence its value was subjective and a matter of opinion between buyer/seller. He obviously thought the card was worth more in the indicated condition and may be able to get it in another auction. Offering a full refund and getting the card back gives him this option.

I have been in similar situations as a buyer and I empathize with you. However, I think the seller was fair.

Z Wheat

freakhappy
02-23-2014, 12:19 AM
I will take exactly what you stated as the truth and comment solely on that.

IMO and like we have all heard before many times I'm sure...customer is king. In this instance, the customer was simply done wrong by the seller because the description was not correct and it absolutely affected the price. When I first read the opening statement, I was thinking only full refund with no partial, but then I thought some more and it became clear that the seller should be somewhat obligated to do whatever in his power to make this right for the buyer. Does a full refund sound good...yep, but the suggestion that the buyer made makes a lot of sense and if I was the seller I would definitely agree with a partial refund because it was my f-up, not his. If the seller states in his listings that he does not do partials, that's one thing, but I don't believe that's the case.

Good luck with your situation...I hope it works out in your favor.

savedfrommyspokes
02-23-2014, 11:31 AM
As a buyer, I feel I am at the seller's mercy to either provide a full refund upon the return OR offer a partial refund with a bare minimum expectation of honoring their refund/return statements in their listing.

As a seller, I never offer partial refunds, however, if there were to be a buyer who is exceedingly DEMANDING and saying things like OR ELSE, etc, I will provide a reasonable partial refund and "move on" as it is not worth the hassle. Obviously buyers who act in this manner I "move on(to)" my BBL.

ALR-bishop
02-23-2014, 02:58 PM
Here are examples of what is being discussed, both 93 and 94

http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/WhitenOldClothes726_zps34638ae1.jpg?t=1393185180
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/WhitenOldClothes728_zpsadc83841.jpg?t=1393185339
http://i1267.photobucket.com/albums/jj555/Bishop539/WhitenOldClothes727_zps738d26ff.jpg?t=1393099039

novakjr
02-23-2014, 03:42 PM
Assuming this is the one you're talking about....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1994-Topps-Black-Gold-ABCD-Winner-Set-/171245461867?pt=US_Baseball&hash=item27df06616b&nma=true&si=5zZJEey8EfQECqlSKVRtV7Ckebo%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

Sure the photo's aren't great, BUT without a doubt I can see the corner damage you're talking about. The bottom right corner looks horrible, the top right not so hot itself(but not awful), the 2 left corners look decent. Don't be mad at me here, BUT given how fairly obvious the damages are in the photos, I might side with the seller here. Forget about his stating "great condition", you had the photos to make that judgement yourself.

Now I don't know if you made the purchase on your phone or computer. So I'm just throwing this out there blindly. I can understand missing the damage if you maybe made the purchase using your phone where you didn't get a great view, BUT if you're making a purchase of that price, or on a card claimed to be this rare, you should probably make sure you get the best possible view you can on your computer.. And looking from my comp, the damage, again, is obvious..

I don't envy your situation. But I completely get where the seller's coming from here. I wouldn't offer a partial either in this case, because the condition was clearly evident in the photos...

frankhardy
02-23-2014, 03:59 PM
Well, as a seller, I can't say that. If I missed the condition like that, I would try to make it right to the buyer within reason.

Also, as a seller, I would have disclosed the condition and not had the buyer rely on grainy digital pictures.

glynparson
02-24-2014, 01:11 PM
With the seller requesting a full refund or you keep the card at the offer. I do not think he was incredibly reputable but neither is negotiating after purchase in my opinion. Had this arrangement been worked out as a stipulation of purchase I may feel different.

bn2cardz
02-24-2014, 01:50 PM
My opinion comes from the fact that this was a BIN with best offer accepted. It is possible that the Seller had a minimum that he would let the card go for. Giving a partial refund could put it below the accepted amount he would have let it go for had you made that offer to start with. Because of this I think the seller shouldn't feel obliged to now make up the difference.

Had it been a .99 cent starting bid auction and the bidding got that high, I could see that maybe he could do a partial refund since the card could have been had at a lower price had other bidders noticed the condition of the card also.