mlfink83

[Sean1125]

If you are dealing with or thinking about dealing with this member I would be careful. Information is as follows.

1/22 He has backed out of a deal with me after I set cards to the side for him.

1/26 I received an e-mail from another member that states:
"The same Mike guy who supposedly screwed you tried forever to get my 51 Bowman Mays and keeps backing out, then getting back in, then backing out. I gave up."

When I made a post on his thread inquiring as to how he couldn't afford $50 in cards, but could afford $2000 his response was that this card isn't for him.

A member who he is trying to purchase a similar card from gave me a PM that states very well he claims to have the money himself.

2 Things, Does this include shipping and can you wait until Thursday at the very latest to get the money? I Have a school refund check that will be here any day now, hopefully tomorrow. The email that came last thrusday said 3-4 business days. I've always gotten it sooner, but at the most it puts things at the end of the week. If something falls through I'll keep you posted, but I have every intent to buy this card. I come here from Jason Jennings and Eric Matthews, and Wymers Auctions. So I'm reputable. I just need a few days to buy it.

I also find it funny, that if he knew funds would be available one day after backing out of the sale of two cards he wanted so much - why would he not contact me to reconfirm that funds would be available and not going to his 'medical issue'?

So for me he has a disability check, for another member he has a school refund check. Yet doesn't actually seem to have money available in the first place.

He then goes on to say in a thread Yes, the bill is taking my refund check detective, that's why I had to back out, I couldn't give you money I didn't have. You know what's funny? My post wasn't in reference to the cards I was selling, I am long over them - a flake is a flake - the post was in reference to the card he was trying to purchase just one minute earlier from a seller on the boards.

I am not sure what games he is playing, or why.




Anyways, I have more logs to toss but I will leave this for now to see what stews.

[pclpads]

In the interests of fair and balanced, I just completed a successful sale with Mike Fink. There were no problems. He promptly paid via PP. Excellent communication, in fact he just sent me an em thanking me for the card. I would not hesitate to transact with him again.

[Leon]

In the interests of fair and balanced, I just completed a successful sale with Mike Fink. There were no problems. He promptly paid via PP. Excellent communication, in fact he just sent me an em thanking me for the card. I would not hesitate to transact with him again.

I always want to hear of transactions gone awry. If no one is out any money and it's a single incident, I chalk up to being human. Anymore than that, in a short to medium time frame, and the member's status on our board will be jeopardized. I know nothing about the situation in the first post (at least I don't think I do :)).....

[mlfink83]

I've since wrote on another page where this was posted that I had the money now to go ahead with the transaction with Sean and haven't heard back, and now can't find that thread to see if he's responded on there. Again my apologies, just had a bill that needed to be taken care of, didn't realize I was getting more than one check so closely together. Won't happen again Leon, Thanks for understanding! :)

[Sean1125]

I accept Mike's apology. I simply would like to see that it doesn't happen again - to anyone here. Only time will tell.

[itjclarke]

I've since wrote on another page where this was posted that I had the money now to go ahead with the transaction with Sean and haven't heard back, and now can't find that thread to see if he's responded on there. Again my apologies, just had a bill that needed to be taken care of, didn't realize I was getting more than one check so closely together. Won't happen again Leon, Thanks for understanding! :)

I had actually read the posts in your WTB thread (1951 Bowman Mantle) and from my perspective, it seemed like you had some pretty major issues that had arisen... having had some major stuff myself a few months back, I felt it seemed worth giving you benefit of the doubt based on what I'd read. Hope things are well and happy buying going forward.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=182328

[mlfink83]

This was a learning experience that won't happen again. Its very nice to finally find a forum that looks out for each other and not some of the groups I've been apart of in the past. Thanks again! Especially to you Sean!

[vintagetoppsguy]

I'm going to say this because I think it needs to be said (as it applies to someone in this thread). Not only should buyers follow through with a commitment, but sellers should too. If you agree to sell a card to someone and have agreed upon the price, that is a commitment, so don't weasel out of the deal if someone else comes along and offers you more money. Just saying.

[Sean1125]

I'm going to say this because I think it needs to be said (as it applies to someone in this thread). Not only should buyers follow through with a commitment, but sellers should too. If you agree to sell a card to someone and have agreed upon the price, that is a commitment, so don't weasel out of the deal if someone else comes along and offers you more money. Just saying.

Who does it apply to?

[vintagetoppsguy]

Who does it apply to?

Sean, I have no beef with you. You and I have done some deals together and you were always fair and honest to deal with, but I feel like you’re being hypocritical here. The very same day you posted this thread, there was another thread on the B/S/T for a 1952 Topps Robinson and Mays. The board member that offered them for sale was listing them on someone else’s behalf (not a Net54 member). They were $610 each delivered or both for $1210.

http://www.net54baseball.com/showthread.php?t=182289

One of our own board members committed to buy them. The deal was already agreed upon. I’m not going to mention his name because I don’t want to drag him into this (unless he chimes in). Then you inquired about the same cards and were told they were sold. Once you learned they were sold, you offered the seller $1300, $90 more than his asking price knowing they were already sold. The slime ball seller agreed to your offer reneging on his other deal. There is a bit more to the story, but the rest of it isn’t relevant to my point.

Here is what I don’t understand. Why do you think it’s wrong for Mike (the subject of this thread) not to follow through on a commitment to you, but you think it’s okay for the seller of the 1952 Topps not to follow through on his commitment to the board member who agreed to buy them first? You can’t say you didn’t know the deal was already agreed upon, because you did know and that’s why you offered more money than the asking price. Again, Sean, I don’t want to start an argument, but it’s kind of hypocritical to start a thread for Mike not honoring his commitment, but on that very same day you didn’t have a problem with the seller of the ’52 Topps not honoring his.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I don't know the facts, but as a hypothetical I certainly agree with David that it would be bad form to knowingly try to get a seller to back out of an agreed upon deal and equally bad form for a seller to renege upon receipt of a better offer.

[HRBAKER]

I don't know the facts, but as a hypothetical I certainly agree with David that it would be bad form to knowingly try to get a seller to back out of an agreed upon deal and equally bad form for a seller to renege upon receipt of a better offer.

+1

If the above scenario played out as relayed by David, truly bad form by both IMO.

[Sean1125]

David,

I believe you should get your facts straight before making posts like that.

Since cammb felt it necessary to 'out' me, only telling a partial truth, I will tell the rest.


There is much, much more to it, but here are the filler facts as to what you released:

When cammb told me that he had to increase his offer (I was under the impression he was still being sold the cards for $1210 - I have messages to prove this). I sent him $90 that same day (completely out of pocket, I got nothing in return) so that he could purchase those cards for $1210.

The kicker? He didn't even purchase the cards.

http://i62.tinypic.com/2jepd20.png

[Sean1125]

+1

If the above scenario played out as relayed by David, truly bad form by both IMO.

It didn't.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Sean, when you were told the cards were sold, that should have been the end of it. There was nothing else to say. Instead, you offered the seller more money than his asking price after you were told they were sold. Are you denying you did that?

[Sean1125]

You have one side of a story I was told he was getting these cards at the original purchase price and nothing more. what happened in between is moot. I took care of him in the end which you conveniently forgot.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I took care of him in the end which you conveniently forgot.

I didn't forget it. It's not relevant to my point. My point is you shouldn't have interferred to begin with. Bottom line is this, Sean. Did cammb get the cards he agreed to purchase, and, if not, was it a result of your interference?

[itjclarke]

I had something similar to David's story happen to me over a card (1961 Fleer Chamberlain rookie) being sold on the board a few weeks ago. Not making any accusations, because I don't know anyone's but my own perspective... but the seller was not very open about the precise circumstances, when offers came in, etc, but I will say it annoyed me and seemed fishy. If the buyer of that card happens to read this, please PM as I'd be curious to know how it went down.

[CMIZ5290]

Sean, when you were told the cards were sold, that should have been the end of it. There was nothing else to say. Instead, you offered the seller more money than his asking price after you were told they were sold. Are you denying you did that?

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

[Sean1125]

I didn't forget it. It's not relevant to my point. My point is you shouldn't have interferred to begin with. Bottom line is this, Sean. Did cammb get the cards he agreed to purchase, and, if not, was it a result of your interference?

He could have purchased the cards for $1210. That was the entire purpose of me sending him the $90. I made a mistake, realized I made a mistake, apologized and did the most I could to fix the situation. You would need to ask cam why he did not purchase when even if he sent the full price (1300) he would be at his net offer of 1210.

Sitting down for dinner with grandparents will resume our argument later.

[vintagetoppsguy]

If the buyer of that card happens to read this, please PM as I'd be curious to know how it went down.

Somehow, I think he's already read it. :D
Whether or not he'll PM you is another story.

[ullmandds]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

I never have...and I'd consider it a pretty douchy move. but I'm sure many on here have.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

Maybe not everyone, but I sure am. I've never done that. It's a crappy thing to do.

[Peter_Spaeth]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

Never done it.

[CMIZ5290]

Fair enough, I stand corrected....I know that it has happened to me a few times.

[slidekellyslide]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

Count me as having never done that, or even thought about it.

[ullmandds]

well Kevin...have you? now be honest!

[Jason]

And im sure he accepted your apology like you did the subject of the thread.Will it happen again?Only time will tell lol

[slidekellyslide]

I believe if I saw something that was sold I'd ask the new owner if he wanted to make a quick flip for a profit.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I believe if I saw something that was sold I'd ask the new owner if he wanted to make a quick flip for a profit.

I plead guilty to having done that.

[HRBAKER]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

Can't recall ever doing this (but I am very old).

[CMIZ5290]

well Kevin...have you? now be honest!

Pete- Yes, one time that I remember. I was negotiating for a couple of weeks with a seller that had a low pop., PSA 8 T206. We went back and forth on negotiations, and he sent me an email with a buying commitment from another potential buyer. The guy had bad feedback with Ebay, and the seller had really been stringing me along for a long period of time. He was also concerned about credibility with the other guy, and he agreed to a $250 increase for a quick transaction. Guilty as charged on this one particular incident....I don't know that under the circumstances, there was a lot of fault here....

[itjclarke]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

Never done this, though have contacted the seller a handful of times (usually if I forgot to bid at auction's end) to say "if for any reason the buyer backs out or returns the item, I'd be very interested..." Have never gotten lucky, but figure there's little harm in that. I would never try to talk someone out of a deal he's already committed to.

David- we'll see if anyone reaches out

[EvilKing00]

I'm going to say this because I think it needs to be said (as it applies to someone in this thread). Not only should buyers follow through with a commitment, but sellers should too. If you agree to sell a card to someone and have agreed upon the price, that is a commitment, so don't weasel out of the deal if someone else comes along and offers you more money. Just saying.

+1

[EvilKing00]

Count me as having never done that, or even thought about it.

I have never tried to kill someones deal. And i wouldnt want that done to me.

[jhs5120]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

I will admit I have done this a couple times. Both times related to snipes that didn't go through.

The first was for a group of 1960's and 1970's empty Topps display boxes. Most of them were pretty common, but there was a very desirable 1971 Topps Contest Ten-Cent display box. Here is the same type of box. (http://www.legendaryauctions.com/LotDetail.aspx?inventoryid=99911) It was obvious this man didn't know what he had. I placed a snipe for $1,400 (or so) and went out to dinner. When I came home I saw the lot ended for $300 but I didn't win. Apparently several forum members had sniping difficulties that night.

I offered him $1,000 after the auction ended for the lot, but he never got back to me.

[vintagetoppsguy]

I offered him $1,000 after the auction ended for the lot, but he never got back to me.

Jason, you have to put yourself in the buyer's shoes though. What if it would have been you that won it for $300 and thought you got a really good deal, only to have someone else email the seller afterwards offering more money? It wouldn't feel good if it happened to you. I'm not trying to chastise you for it, just giving you another perspective.

Also, you don't know what that buyer's proxy was. He could have had a $1500 proxy, but just didn't get outbid and won it considerably cheaper. And, maybe that seller did consider your $1000 offer and told the winner that he had a better offer to try and squeeze more money out of the buyer.

[Sean1125]

I guess it's no joke when I say 'highest prices paid'. :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[jhs5120]

Jason, you have to put yourself in the buyer's shoes though. What if it would have been you that won it for $300 and thought you got a really good deal, only to have someone else email the seller afterwards offering more money? It wouldn't feel good if it happened to you. I'm not trying to chastise you for it, just giving you another perspective.

Also, you don't know what that buyer's proxy was. He could have had a $1500 proxy, but just didn't get outbid and won it considerably cheaper. And, maybe that seller did consider your $1000 offer and told the winner that he had a better offer to try and squeeze more money out of the buyer.

I fully appreciate this and do not condone the action one bit. Out of my 1,000's of transactions on ebay, the BST forum and everywhere else only one example stood out. On a side note, I KNOW I would have been outbid because Mark Theotikos was the winning bidder :)

[wonkaticket]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

Nope haven't done it....

[3-2-count]

Nope haven't done it....

Me either.

[drmondobueno]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

Yep. Never done that.

[cammb]

First of all, Sean, I didn't "out" you. I just told my story to Dave. I did commend you for offering me $90 for the trouble You caused and accepted your money as sort of a peace offering. I told you that as far as I was concerned it was over. I didn't purchase the cards because that slug upped the price. I told him to shove the cards. I guess you didn't purchase them either. Dave's argument with you is that he sees ann hypocrisy with one of your posts and was using my bad experience as an example.

To.ny Bivi.ano

[freakhappy]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??


Sorry Kevin, my perfect-o-meter won't let me do it...

I have however, offered less for an item on several occasions :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[itjclarke]

Sorry Kevin, my perfect-o-meter won't let me do it...

I have however, offered less for an item on several occasions :)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Has that ever worked?? If so, I'm following your formula from here on out Mike

[itjclarke]

Btw- since no one's PMd, I'll just ask straight up... Sean-- did you end up with the Chamberlain? If not, no worries... If so, that transaction annoyed me big time.. I'd been offering on that card for 9 days, then someone clearly swooped and one (or two) upped me

[Sean1125]

Btw- since no one's PMd, I'll just ask straight up... Sean-- did you end up with the Chamberlain? If not, no worries... If so, that transaction annoyed me big time.. I'd been offering on that card for 9 days, then someone clearly swooped and one (or two) upped me

I have no idea what card you are talking about. No, I did not end up with this card or even make an offer on it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

If cambb did not purchase the cards, it seems to me he should not keep Sean's $90 whether or not Sean interfered with his purchase.

[Sean1125]

If cambb did not purchase the cards, it seems to me he should not keep Sean's $90 whether or not Sean interfered with his purchase.

I view it as what I had to do to repair the situation that had arisen from my actions. I have no problem with it.

[Peter_Spaeth]

I view it as what I had to do to repair the situation that had arisen from my actions. I have no problem with it.

Your intent presumably was to compensate him for the incremental price he was being charged. If he did not purchase the cards, he isn't out anything, and isn't harmed.

EDIT TO ADD I wonder if we are going to hear the seller's side of this.

[Sean1125]

Your intent presumably was to compensate him for the incremental price he was being charged. If he did not purchase the cards, he isn't out anything, and isn't harmed.

EDIT TO ADD I wonder if we are going to hear the seller's side of this.

Being that David was the one to out the situation - and not Tony - I will refrain from posting more information. The seller was helping someone else out and got in the middle of a nasty situation - there is no burden on him to respond.

I ended up being contacted to purchase these cards (by the ACTUAL seller, not middleman) so I don't see anything wrong with him keeping the money.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Blackie, the one that offered the cards, was doing so one someone else's behalf. He has no fault here. The owner of the cards, Michael Bowe, is not a member here. He is a complete slimeball.

You have a nice way of spinning things, Sean, so they sound good to others who may read this. Yes, Michael contacted you, but only after you made your higher offer to Blackie and after you were told the cards were already sold. Blackie felt compelled to let Michael know the higher offer, but he was only the middle man.

Keep spinning things, Sean, and I'll just keep correcting you.

[Sean1125]

Blackie, the one that offered the cards, was doing so one someone else's behalf. He has no fault here. The owner of the cards, Michael Bowe, is not a member here. He is a complete slimeball.

You have a nice way of spinning things, Sean, so they sound good to others who may read this. Yes, Michael contacted you, but only after you made your higher offer to Blackie and after you were told the cards were already sold. Blackie felt compelled to let Michael know the higher offer, but he was only the middle man.

Keep spinning things, Sean, and I'll just keep correcting you.

Stick your nose somewhere else please.

Had you not spoken I think cam and I would have had this amicably resolved, as we did, and nothing would have come of it.

I would say the same exact to you - in every situation I've ever seen you post in you spin the turn of events negatively regardless of what actually took place.

Michael contacted me SEVERAL DAYS LATER not during the situation. Your facts are wrong and you are wrong.

This will be my final post on this thread, let the readers decide what they want.

[ullmandds]

I've made my decision!

[Section103]

I just dont see any reason why such simple transactions should ever become complicated. If they do, something is wrong.

[vintagetoppsguy]

Stick your nose somewhere else please.


Sean, I would have never said anything about the situation, but I felt your hypocrisy was overboard. You start a thread about a member not following through on a $50 transaction that he committed to, yet you interfere in a $1200 transaction so that another seller could follow through on a transaction he committment. I guess if it benefits you, it's okay?

[ullmandds]

I just dont see any reason why such simple transactions should ever become complicated. If they do, something is wrong.
Yes...agreed!

[glchen]

Not trying to get in the middle of this, but is everyone denying that that they have never offered a seller more money for an item that they said was sold??

I don't think I've done this before, but when negotiating w/ a seller which has multiple other buyers in the mix, I've definitely asked a seller to give me a chance beat the best offer he gets.

[slidekellyslide]

Can someone give the precise timeline of events that took place here? Did Sean interfere with this sale? Neither guy ended up with the cards so what happened?

[Sean1125]

Can someone give the precise timeline of events that took place here? Did Sean interfere with this sale? Neither guy ended up with the cards so what happened?

You will find the answers to your questions if you read through the thread...

[Peter_Spaeth]

Can someone give the precise timeline of events that took place here? Did Sean interfere with this sale? Neither guy ended up with the cards so what happened?

I think it's something like this although I could be wrong.

Owner asks Blackie to sell cards on 54.

Cambb makes Blackie offer that is accepted.

Sean contacts Blackie, learns of deal, (or vice versa) and makes higher offer.

Blackie feels obligated to communicate higher offer to owner.

Owner instructs Blackie to take higher offer or get more from Cambb.

Cambb finds out what happened, rips Sean.

Sean backs down, sends Cambb the difference, but Cambb refuses deal at higher price but keeps Sean's money anyway.

[slidekellyslide]

I think it's something like this although I could be wrong.

Owner asks Blackie to sell cards on 54.

Cambb makes Blackie offer that is accepted.

Sean contacts Blackie, learns of deal, (or vice versa) and makes higher offer.

Blackie feels obligated to communicate higher offer to owner.

Owner instructs Blackie to take higher offer or get more from Cambb.

Cambb finds out what happened, rips Sean.

Sean backs down, sends Cambb the difference, but Cambb refuses deal at higher price but keeps Sean's money anyway.

Thanks, that's how I read it too...So Sean did interfere in a BST transaction.

[cammb]

Pete, everything you stated happened in that exact timeline. I have to clear up one thing . I took Sean's money because I was originally offered it to back out of the deal. I didn't take to make up the difference in the asking price. I am of the opinion if a seller posts an asking price and that price is met then it should be sold at that price regardless if the seller received another price. This is not an auction but in a sense, a buy it now.

[Sean1125]

Thanks, that's how I read it too...So Sean did interfere in a BST transaction.

You seem to be conveniently forgetting that the person who the issue was with stated himself it was taken care of.

[slidekellyslide]

You seem to be conveniently forgetting that the person who the issue was with stated himself it was taken care of.

It was "taken care of", but it sure doesn't seem like he's happy about it. You still interfered with a BST transaction.

[Sean1125]

Based on PM's he seems fine to me.

[itjclarke]

I have no idea what card you are talking about. No, I did not end up with this card or even make an offer on it.

You definitely made an offer on on the Chamberlain by way of an "I'll take it" post. I wouldn't have suspected you of anything or asked you about this (though do I suspect someone came in and made a higher offer after mine), until I read about the Robinson/Mays story.

[MyGuyTy]

I believe if I saw something that was sold I'd ask the new owner if he wanted to make a quick flip for a profit.

I've done this as well, even sold cards that I recently bought because somebody else really needed the card. I have never and will never try to go behind someone's back to weasel a card they're about to buy.